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North Korea must be stopped

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jacksdad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2017 at 5:49pm
Nobody in public office should ever be placed on so high a pedestal that they are beyond criticism. Trump's bizarre, fractious and often irrational behavior is more than enough reason to question his ability to steer the nation through troubled waters. The "soap opera" is merely pointing out what a flawed individual he is.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2017 at 8:20pm
It's scary that someone like chump is in charge!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2017 at 3:47am
"Horses for courses"  A belligerent, bullying, ba$£^&d like Trump is probably just what is needed here.  The conciliatory ones who compromised and cajoled failed utterly. They actually seem to have made things worse.

I could not agree more about his inability to take criticism though.  Other Presidents have used unfavorable press reports to hone their skills and improve their results.  With Trump that is about as likely as Jesus's second coming happening tomorrow at 10.15 am precisely.  Did I mention he hadto be carrying a bunch of balloons - every color except magenta.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2017 at 4:09am
Heads up America!

For those of you who don't know or understand orbital physics, aerodynamics and rocketry, here is a little information for you:  Any nation that can put an object into an altitude (ie. distance from the Earth's surface) that would allow its payload to orbit (ie. satellite height) is capable of dropping its contents at any point on the Earth's surface that it so chooses.  

Most of you were probably not around during the second world war or the 1950s but the reason so many young American heroes and British servicemen and women (British meaning our Commonwealth of the time) gave their lives to destroy the Nazi war machine was to end things before they could launch their improved version of the V2 rocket containing atomic bombs that they were working on.  There is some evidence that they actually did test small tactical nuclear devices and we only just beat them to the punch , with the much larger devices dropped on Japan.  

I assure you North Korea is capable of manufacturing and delivering thermonuclear weapons much larger than those used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  UN action is needed immediately!  Preferably at a diplomatic level but the gunboats must be there to back up the diplomatic preamble.

I pray to God I don't have to live to see West Virginia or any other part of American soil glowing in the dark.

Ps. One thing Obama did very wrong was to sack America's best general for not answering a phone call quick enough and telling a loud mouthed press operative that: "Its only government- Its not important" or, as I am paraphrasing, words to that effect.  You all know "The Ranger" I mean.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2017 at 3:29am
There is an interesting scene in Space Odyssey with apes waving bones above their head until one them finally bonks one on the head and kills them. Then the bone is thrown in the air and the next thing you see is a space station indicating that was progress.

This time the next scene will be a nuclear wasteland in North Korea, South Korea, Los Angeles and maybe even New York or Chicago. There can be no military action in North Korea without 20 million people being killed in Seoul in minutes even if they nuke or destroy Kim Jong-Un with a Mother-of-all-Bombs (Moab) they have hundreds of guns and probably nuclear armed ICBMS now, not next year, as the military so inaccurately stated either from bad intelligence or wishful thinking.

As to the sad state of affairs in Washington - neither a lawyer or a businessman can effectively be the commander-in-chief of our military. We fared better when ex-military - even JFK was at the helm during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Our current situation is partially caused by the "pick you battles" truism severely lacking not only in the media but in higher places. Like bullies in high school, you do not respond to every barb and attack daily from every source. As an example, my best friend Bryan Rawson who is still alive and was a strapping 6' 4" Canadian guy in high school but the son of a minister did not want to fight anyone. This little (we won't name race) creature kept poking him, jeering him, over almost 3 month until finally he picked him up in his undershorts in the gym, held him up on the wall by this throat and told him "If you don't get off my ass, I am going to kill you."

That was the last time he ever bothered him. The "little dude" said "you are a crazy mfkr son of a bitch and I want no part of you."

point: Where this works in the gym it does not work with nuclear weapons. Perhaps in mega business deals with sane people it might. However Kim Jong-un is not sane. He is a megalomaniac who does not care about his people, the lives of his soldiers, or the survival of his country.  The only way they could have stopped him was to have an assassin take him out from South Korea and that was his greatest fear.  Then there would be no launch, no more nuclear program - no more North Korean threat.

As for nuclear or ship armadas our people better stay far apart. A nuke over several irreplaceable in the near future billion dollar ships would put a sizable dent in our forces.

Currently most of the senators and legislature are acting and talking like they are on drugs, and many probably are. Washington D.C. is a swamp and not easily drained. The distrust of our government lawmakers is an all time high. They do not represent the people generally other than sometimes their own state or area that elected them and the armies of lobbyists that control their votes and their lives. We do not have a democracy or representation anymore.

Put a lawyer in as president - i.e. the truly failed Obama or wanna be Hillary Clinton and we have words without substance, lying to the people and saying otherwise in private and doing essentially nothing to effectively better America. Put a business man in and the same tactics used to negotiate business deals will be used to make military decisions. You need a general - battle hardened - aware of the BS of countries like Iran - and with all due respect - China. China is not doing anything to stop North Korea. They don't want to. Russia does not want to either. They don't care if they nuke South Korea with it's U.S. forces.

They do not want a strong Western military presence on their doorstep. Neither did we in Cuba. It makes sense and we have never been in areas to protect anyone but our oil interests or set up bases closer to our enemies.

No one truly cares about people of color except people of color in government or the poor who have somehow got elected. Even so, they often become corrupted and soon become the Jeffersons trying to demonstrate it is time for (fill in the blank) people to have money and for the (fill in the blank) to pay back the debt of abuse for decades.

Meanwhile we are on the verge of a nuclear war. I will state again I worked in the nuclear program with nuclear missiles and had a need-to-know enough to know what would happen in a nuclear exchange and that the world could be destroyed in less than 40 minutes.

We don't need a high altitude missile that everyone can shoot down. A Russian drone or missile cruising just above the water launched from a sub would be almost impossible to intercept. Arrival time - 3 to 6 minutes. A multiple launch of 16 missiles with 8-12 warheads would fill the sky with projectiles - some of them dummies and many would get through.

Wake up America. You can have the war over there or over here. Except for a regime change (a polite way to take out Kim Jong-Un) people are going to die.

Wake up Mainstream Media. You fiddle while Rome burns pissing and moaning about things you think people want to read about versus what is truly important.

It is unlikely that either China or Russia will launch on us if North Korea is  attacked.

North Korea must be stopped. Negotiation - sanctions never worked with Iran and they won't work with North Korea.

Medclinician imho

Kim Jong-un is waving the bone with impunity against the western world. It is an ICBM with a nuclear warhead. It can take out a city for 40,000 years. We can defend ourselves now or later. Or is there really that choice? Once he launches and destroys a city,  other rogue state will as well around the world. Terrorists and ISIS and Al Qaeda in place will have the signal to strike in Europe and America. Can we afford to take the risk?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2017 at 4:08am
Agreed, Med.  Wishful thinking, for decades!

It may already be too late to do anything now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2017 at 10:50pm
This is the only strategy that will work:

a) Make a clandestine approach to NK military staff - say that "If you don't take care of Kim Jong Un, we will, and you go as well.  You have three days." 

b) Offer them the support they need to change the government - medicine, food, whatever. 

c) If they don't, pull the trigger on NK.   Massive, devastating attacks on the government & military infrastructure, making "shock and awe" in Iraq look like a kid's party. 

p.s. Isn't it a little stupid that Seoul SK is so close to the DMZ?  They should have relocated it a long time ago!!  That is about the only thing preventing an attack on NK.  Sad! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2017 at 10:54pm
That's the most plausible plan I've heard so far to deal with this, Chuck. Everything else is sure to result in an appalling loss of life all over the peninsula, and most likely elsewhere.

Messy, messy situation.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2017 at 12:39am
Agreed!  But now!!!!  NOT when K.J.U. has had even more time to weaponise the North.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2017 at 12:55am
Total agreement, Chuck.  If "wet removal with maximum prejudice" is not practical,  then a "hot clean" is advised.  This is an occasion when one thinks: the Thor project should prove useful.  What a pity it was cancelled.  I could give you a list of excellent targets for it.    Doesn't that little cockroach know what: "No Surrender!  Hurrah!" means. 



We should have let Ike do what he wanted to in the first place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2017 at 7:08am
They will do this - blow up an American city. Just as Saddam Hussein took on the world and Baghdad was never nuked, so North Korea will attack the U.S. if Kim Jong-un is not removed from power.

I personally do care about South Korea and Seoul in which 20,000,000 people will die. Those who think this could not escalate into a global conflict are wrong - and much more terrorist attacks which will happen as soon anything this major occurs.

They can hit New York. For more than 35 years I have said that is where it will happen - but now - California (and who would want to bomb Alaska?) is in the cross-hairs.

Medclinician


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2017 at 10:58am
I do care about all those people.  But something soon, or the numbers in danger just grow.

I had high hopes for Trump on this one.  Sadly, he seems to be just another appeaser.  I suppose bullies only pick on the weak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2017 at 3:38am
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/07/north-korea-must-halt-missile-tests-for-talks-with-us-to-occur-tillerson-says.html

This is deeply disturbing to me and reminiscent of Obama Era foreign policy.

Kim Jong-un has zero interest in talking to the U.S. unless they accept them as a nuclear power. Sanctions have not worked and using the same failed strategy we did with Iran will not accomplish anything.

North Korea is a clear and present threat to America and currently can take out at least Seoul whether we nuke them or not.

Neither Russia or China have demonstrated any intent or willingness to become involved in stopping North Korea.

The current sanctions on Russia have ruined our relationship with them  and accomplished nothing. This simply increases the likelihood of a war between us and a nation capable of wiping out our country. It is Democratic posturing punishing our country because they lost the Democratic election with Hillary Clinton and simply will not give up on ruining America.

This is pointless rhetoric. There has been no signal of any kind from North Korea they will stop testing nukes in the near future if ever. What is Tillerson thinking?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 7:10am
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/07/haley-north-korea-needs-to-brace-for-combined-pressure-from-us-and-world.html

U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley told Fox News that America has the iron-clad upper hand.

More words. It would appear that the engineers behind the sanctions feel they have delivered a "gut punch" to North Korea.

Not so. It is the people who will suffer, not the nuclear program in North Korea. I almost feel like posting my "wave the bone over the ape's head" video again.

I don't think they realize the psychology of a crazy person. A crazy delusional person just does things.  I worked with such people in 3-stage lock down at Agnew mental hospital and at Don Lo at Santa Clara  Medical Center. People would just "go off."  Once I was jumped for the keys and we had to deal with a crazy person who was bigger than me and I am 6' 2" tall and no midget.

I watched a freak in San Jose jail take down 4 officers when I working at the jail who was on Angel Dust.  The guy was amazingly strong and probably could have lifted a car.

My point is people who are many bricks shy of a load just do things. If they put enough pressure on Kim Jong-un he may just take out Seoul. While everyone is patting themselves on the back, he is still loading missiles on speedboats to take out our aircraft carriers. Nothing has changed.

We can handle it says our military.

It mystifies me. Is Kim Jong-un going to call on the phone with tears in his eyes and say "I am so sorry. I did a bad thing"?  I doubt it.

Will China follow through on the sanctions?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-06/china-confident-un-sanctions-can-block-north-korea-nuclear-push

“You need deeper sanctions over a longer period of time, like years, before you can see if North Korea changes its behavior,” Thomas Byrne, president of the New York-based Korea Society, said in a telephone interview. “The sanctions will have an economic impact but little effect on the strategic intent to develop ballistic missiles.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-big-win-china-sanctions-un-north-korea-2017-8

According to Yun Sun, a senior associate at the Stimson Center who is an expert on China and North Korea, the US essentially persuaded China to agree to the extensive sanctions on Pyongyang by threatening to sanction Chinese banks that do business with North Koreans.

But will these sanctions stop North Korea from building and testing missiles and nuclear devices?

"The answer is no," Sun said. "The belief that sanctions are going to bring North Korea to its knees have been proven to be false assumptions."

According to Sun, during economically lean times, it's the North Korean people who suffer. Pyongyang has prioritized its military and will most likely fund its weapons programs above all else.

Additionally, John Park, the director of the Korea Working Group at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, told South Korea's Hankyoreh that North Korea had billions stockpiled from years of a trade surplus. He projects that the regime could survive for years even under these strict sanctions.

comment: So to the tune of "you did a good thing" being pumped to the media, we still may be on the verge of World War III and a launch on South Korea's Seoul.

I see most politician's seem to do these little dances and wait for applause after pumping to them media how cool it was what they did. I am not convinced.

Yet North Korea won't win a military conflict with the U.S. and the allies.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 7:45am
Yep, Med!  Spot on!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 7:48am
http://www.globalresearch.ca/why-china-and-russia-agreed-to-tough-new-sanctions-on-north-korea/5603001

Russia and China want all of Korea to be a nuclear-free-zone. They voted for sanctions against NK in the hope the US is willing to de-escalate. 

From the article: mposing sanctions is one thing, enforcing them another. North Korea is adept at exploiting loopholes in restrictions and minimizing them other ways.

Most important, China wants Pyongyang’s economy kept from imploding. It accounts for around 90% of its exports. It’s the DPRK’s key ally.

Beijing and Russia oppose its nuclear and ballistic missile programs. They want these issues handled diplomatically – most of all non-militarily, the main reason they went along with sanctions to preserve a measure of stability on the Korean peninsula.

China’s UN envoy Liu Jieyi explained new sanctions aim to prevent chaos and conflict on the Korean peninsula, why his government supported them.

According to Liu, unanimously passed SC Res. 2371 has three components:

1. New sanctions against Pyongyang’s nuclear and ballistic missile programs.

2. No intention to harm DPRK activities not prohibited by the resolution – including economic activities and cooperation, food and economic assistance.

3. A call for resuming six-party diplomacy, a commitment to resolving contentious issues peacefully and taking steps to deescalate Korean peninsula tensions.


China and Russia seek an “integrated,” realistic and feasible resolution to Korean peninsula issues. They want provocative US THAAD missile systems in South Korea withdrawn, undermining regional strategic balance and threatening their national security.

Increased US regional militarization is polar opposite what’s needed to resolve contentious issues.

Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 7:58am
The only military option against NK is a united US-China-Russia plan. The NK elite could bow to such a united front-in wich a war would be a losing battle for NK from the start. 


From the NK point of view; why should some countries have a right to have nuclear weapons and other countries not have that right. For the Arab world Israel is an exemple of the un-logical reasoning by some states. 

When NK has to give up its nuclear programm, Iran give in to pressure-why then not Israel ? What moral right has any country to have the capability to destroy all of humanity ? 

What price is affordable to deal with the NK weapons/regime ? Should "we"go to w.w.-3 for that ? (And if we don't what then ?)
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 10:40am

Report: North Korea now making missile-ready nuclear weapons


http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/08/politics/north-korea-missile-ready-nuclear-weapons/index.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 11:46am
I know I've discussed this at length with Chuck before now, but one of my biggest concerns - especially living near the ocean as I do - is North Korea preemptively loading nukes on innocuous looking boats and keeping them out in the water just in case. No ICBMs needed - just pleasure craft and fishing boats ready to sail into major harbors along the East and West Coast.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

I know I've discussed this at length with Chuck before now, but one of my biggest concerns - especially living near the ocean as I do - is North Korea preemptively loading nukes on innocuous looking boats and keeping them out in the water just in case. No ICBMs needed - just pleasure craft and fishing boats ready to sail into major harbors along the East and West Coast.




You are so right about this.  For years they have been going on about the showy launch of missiles high in the air that could be intercepted.  Smuggling a nuke in the U.S. in a fishing boat is are real threat. I have written about this many times - especially in New York. It isn't the missile we have to worry about - it is the nuclear device that could be brought in and set off.  The same applies to the drop of a nuke from the satellite that crosses over New York and the East Coast.  A low altitude detonation could effectively destroy the power grid and set the stage for operatives (North Korea has a lot of "operatives" who could then do more damage.

The media core who has been moaning about Trump are now very worried that someone very emotional has control of the nuclear trigger pointed at North Korea. If this weren't so disturbing - since Hillary was already going to order a No-Fly zone in Syria which would have set off World War III, Trump's options are limited.

It he does nothing- eventually that crazy kid who loves cheese and doesn't fear the U.S. will try and take out Los Angeles or New York.

One must keep in mind - we have no instant-replay or give me a new 15 million life button on this. This a 32,000 year event - no one can live there anymore - and which will immortalize Kim Jong-un as the greatest mass murderer in human history.  It will be worse than Hiroshima. 

And you can count on the fact, there will be little level headed thinking when people panic and totally lose faith in the congress that let this happen. 

U.S. diplomacy has failed as well as sanctions. Iran ignored them, North Korea will work around them and has a stock pile and money flowing from Iran as well as technology. 

When the birds have flown, i.e. missiles launched by U.S. in some kind of Tomahawk statement - Seoul will be toast and China and Russia's masks will fall and cloaking device turn off. Meaning - they don't want the U.S. shooting off nukes next door to them in an exchange that could quickly become up-close and personal.

The only sane and realistic answer is a regime change. Perhaps the world will be unhappy but not as unhappy as 20 million in Seoul who will end up as collateral damage.

Medclinician
 




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