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North Korea must be stopped

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Medclinician View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 2:14pm
Not if but when North Korea became a full-fledged nuclear power.

Medclinician


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 3:37pm
Every President has passed NK along to the next President. Old Bush, Clinton, Young Bush, Obama have done nothing now Trump has to deal with this nut. My late husband would say, nuke them an deal with the consequents after. I have to agree that this would be the best way to deal with the nut.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

I know I've discussed this at length with Chuck before now, but one of my biggest concerns - especially living near the ocean as I do - is North Korea preemptively loading nukes on innocuous looking boats and keeping them out in the water just in case. No ICBMs needed - just pleasure craft and fishing boats ready to sail into major harbors along the East and West Coast.




recommended reading

"THE SUM OF ALL FEARS" by Tom Clancy

just a book
OR
a prediction ?
“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 3:46pm
"fire and fury"
the updated version of "shock and awe" ?

Video of Donald Trump casually threatening 'fire and fury like the world has never seen' nuclear war

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/8/8/1687877/-Video-of-Donald-Trump-casually-threatening-fire-and-fury-like-the-world-has-never-seen-nuclear-war
“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by FluMom FluMom wrote:

Every President has passed NK along to the next President. Old Bush, Clinton, Young Bush, Obama have done nothing now Trump has to deal with this nut. My late husband would say, nuke them an deal with the consequents after. I have to agree that this would be the best way to deal with the nut.
The longer the West waits, the more nuclear capable the mad regime in NK. becomes.  Your husband was right.  

The longer we wait, the worse it gets and this "worse" is nuclear "worse".  No sane person wants any war, let alone a nuclear one, but Kim is not sane, neither is his regime and after all those years of propaganda neither is most of his country.  Bush, Bush, Clinton and Obama had the best reasons on Earth for cowardice.  I would have done no better.  But, ultimately, cowardice is what it was.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 4:26pm
In answer to your posting, FluMom,  I think things have gone too far and are rapidly going to "hell in a handcart" as far as North Korea is concerned.  

I think my childhood hero "Ike" had the right idea after WW2 when he wanted to use around about 20 atomic bombs that were left over on the communists in both China and the USSR (as was).  This was known as the "Nuke them until lthey glow in the dark and then shoot the lights out" policy.  Unfortunately he did not do it, due to opposition at home and we have had 70 years of danger and so-called cold-war.  (That is in itself a bloody joke.)  

I think maybe its time to do what it says on my T-shirt ie.  "KILL THEM ALL AND LET GOD SORT IT OUT!"  because if something is not done shortly, that crazy "cockroach from hell" is going to drop a large amount of smelly stuff right in America's lap.

I can live without a few North Korean loonies, but I would like to keep my American buddies.

Ps. You can reason with Russia; you can reason with China but Pyongyang is going to end up dragging them into the quagmire as well.
I like Ike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 4:52pm
keep in mind that NK has THOUSANDS of artillery pieces dug in along the border
some say they are as many as 15,000
they can level Seoul in a  matter of hours
we could eventually destroy all those gun  emplacements
but by that time Seoul would be gone and so would hundreds of thousands of people
“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 9:23pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8atcktOPcY

The Atlantic: Kim Jung Un is more predictable than Trump. The NK goal is clear-avoid an attack by putting up the price. 


International support for any major US action is getting smaller by the day: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-07/us-greatest-threat-peace-world-today-new-poll-finds
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by Satori Satori wrote:

"fire and fury"
the updated version of "shock and awe" ?

Yeah, that's the first thing that came to my mind also!  Dead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GustavSer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2017 at 12:26am
Are they really crazy or are they just pretending to be crazy so we don't mess with them. That's the question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2017 at 1:49am
BOTH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2017 at 10:24am


Trump Threatens ‘Fire and Fury’ Against North Korea if It Endangers U.S.

BRIDGEWATER, N.J. — President Trump threatened on Tuesday to unleash “fire and fury” against North Korea if it endangered the United States, as tensions with the isolated and impoverished nuclear-armed state escalated into perhaps the most serious foreign policy challenge yet of his administration.

In chilling language that evoked the horror of a nuclear exchange, Mr. Trump sought to deter North Korea from any actions that would put Americans at risk. But it was not clear what specifically would cross his line. Administration officials have said that a pre-emptive military strike, while a last resort, is among the options they have made available to the president.

“North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States,” Mr. Trump told reporters at his golf club in Bedminster, N.J., where he is spending much of the month on a working vacation. “They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen.”

Referring to North Korea’s volatile leader, Kim Jong-un, Mr. Trump said, “He has been very threatening beyond a normal state, and as I said, they will be met with fire and fury, and frankly power the likes of which this world has never seen before.”

Undaunted, North Korea warned several hours later that it was considering a strike that would create “an enveloping fire” around Guam, the western Pacific island where the United States operates a critical Air Force base. In recent months, American strategic bombers from Guam’s Andersen Air Force Base have flown over the Korean Peninsula in a show of force.

“Will only the U.S. have option called ‘preventive war’ as is claimed by it?” the Strategic Force of the North’s Korean People’s Army, or K.P.A., said in a statement. “It is a daydream for the U.S. to think that its mainland is an invulnerable Heavenly kingdom.”

“The U.S. should clearly face up to the fact that the ballistic rockets of the Strategic Force of the K.P.A. are now on constant standby, facing the Pacific Ocean and pay deep attention to their azimuth angle for launch,” the statement said.

On Wednesday, Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson played down the threat. “I think Americans should sleep well at night, have no concerns about this particular rhetoric of the last few days,” he said.

Mr. Trump’s stark comments went well beyond the firm but measured language typically preferred by American presidents in confronting North Korea, and indeed seemed almost to echo the bellicose words used by Mr. Kim. Whether that message was mainly a bluff or an authentic expression of intent, it instantly scrambled the diplomatic equation in one of the world’s most perilous regions.

Supporters suggested that Mr. Trump was trying to get Mr. Kim’s attention in a way that the North Korean leader would understand, while critics expressed concern that the American president could stumble into a war with devastating consequences.



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/08/world/asia/north-korea-un-sanctions-nuclear-missile-united-nations.html


He's no Teddy Roosevelt !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2017 at 1:24pm
Hey we have tried the "Sanctions" which did not work this nut has nukes and will use them. Clinton, Bush, Obama all did nothing as this nut has built rockets and nukes to kill us and our allies.    I just hope we have enough firepower left to crush NK, after Peacenik Obama downgraded our military.

Like I said, I think we should nuke if he nukes but do you want to be the people the little fat nut nukes first. What if your kid is in the military in Guam or family in Hawaii on vacation. These are his most logical targets because they are "close". Russia and China are not going to do anything they will try to invade us after a NK attack and if we are weak in any way they will try.

What Liberals do not understand is the U.S. is a prize to Socialists and Communists because we are Capitalists and make and have money and a great life even for the poorest of us.

I have purchased more KI and I think I may need it for my son and I. If he hits California the fall out will drift across the U.S.     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2017 at 1:32pm
Hawaii is holding preparedness drills, and an LDS mailing list I subscribe to just raised their "prep-con" status for the first time. Time to gas up the vehicles and review last minute preps, methinks. We're definitely in uncharted waters right now.


"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2017 at 3:10pm
odd how all the talk is on taking out DRNK,
it will be easy ,
he out gunned ,
no match for the USA,

all over in Days..............HEARD IT ALL BEFORE



it wont go anywhere just sabre rattling

Kim will be gone soon 

dagger in the back,or crossbow on the Dunny(aussie for Toilet)

12 monkeys!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2017 at 9:31pm
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/05/130527-map-video-balloon-bomb-wwii-japanese-air-current-jet-stream/

Balloon bombs aimed to be the silent assassins of World War II. Hitching a ride on a jet stream, these weapons from Japancould float soundlessly across the Pacific Ocean to their marks in North America.

Still largely unknown, these armaments were a byproduct of an atmospheric experiment by the Axis power. In the 1940s, the Japanese were mapping out air currents by launching balloons attached with measuring instruments from the western side of Japan and picking them up on the eastern side.

(DJ-What Japan did NK can do !)

Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2017 at 4:11am
http://www.newsweek.com/north-korea-attack-us-likely-deadliest-nation-history-645106

The Hwasong-14, which was tested twice last month, is believed to be capable of transmitting a roughly 500-kilogram warhead with the capacity to produce an explosion equivalent to 15 kilotons of TNT, comparable to the so-called "Little Man" atomic bomb that was dropped by the U.S. Air Force on Hiroshima, killing over 75,000 people at the end of World War Two. Pollack said a modern version of such a warhead, considered low-yield by today's standards, has the potential to kill hundreds of thousands of people.

To quantify the deadly effects of a nuclear strike, nuclear historian Alex Wellerstein developed the aptly named NukeMap, which allows users to calculate various nuclear scenarios, including preset coordinates of major cities around the world and different types of weapons of various yields. For example, a direct strike with a 15 kiloton nuclear warhead on Newsweek's office in downtown Manhattan would kill an estimated 174,640 people and injure 291,630 more. An attack on downtown Los Angeles produces over 100,000 fatalities and a nuclear strike on the Capitol Building in Washington takes out about 77,490 people. These numbers account for only one warhead, and not multiple strikes, which some experts say would be more likely.

https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

Wellerstein, who is an assistant professor at the Stevens Institute of Technology and runs the Nuclear Secrecy Blog, told Newsweek that analysts typically factor in two key elements when calculating the devastation of a nuclear warhead: explosive power and accuracy. While the previous figures were gathered using a 15 kiloton, he said North Korea may have detonated devices twice as powerful as that and that more powerful ones may be on the way. With such a warhead, even a relatively low-accuracy ICBM could "take a chunk out of Los Angeles pretty easily" and "put the hurt on it in a way that would still be unprecedented for America's own experiences."

Pollack echoed this point, saying it's easy to see why major cities would be "an attractive target" because of the high fatality rate even with relatively inaccurate missiles. A recent analysis conducted by aerospace engineer John Schilling and posted to North Korea monitoring group 38 North said the current inception of Hwasong-14 is likely only a threat to the U.S.'s West Coast, but that improvements made as soon as early next year could extend this reach to cities in the east, including Washington. Other experts have already labeled most of the U.S. mainland as a viable target.

North Korea's notoriously secretive nature makes it difficult to know just where Kim would strike if he chose to do so, but Pollack points to a 2013 photograph in which the leader may have let slip important state secrets. Using enhanced imagery, researchers were able to examine a war map spotted in a picture of Kim and his military brass and discover what they believed to be four marked U.S. targets, including those in or near Louisiana, California, Washington and Hawaii.

Pollack identified the likely destinations for North Korea's missiles, according to the map, as Lousiana's Barksdale Air Force Base, the Pacific Fleet's home port in San Diego, the Pentagon in Virginia and, finally, what's likely Pearl Harbor. The Hawaiian naval base served as the target for an Imperial Japanese attack that killed about 2,400 soldiers and facilitated the U.S.'s entry into World War Two in 1941.

As for the capabilities of the U.S.'s anti-ICBM systems to defend the country from such a historic assault, Pollack says he has "grave doubts about its ability to do its job." Schilling told Newsweek last month that "U.S. missile defenses under ideal circumstances work about 50 percent of the time," noting that the sudden launching of multiple, unknown ICBM's would be much more unpredictable than the usual test conditions. The Pentagon itself expressed concerns about the system's viability last month, with spokesperson Jeff Davis admitting it had experienced "mixed results."

comment: What is the most disturbing is how close we are to some type of actually military action. Given the military strength of the U.S. and the desire "to make a point to North Korea and the World" this is likely to not be a surgical strike but will result in many civilian casualties.

Still, and Kim Jong-un has reason to be worried, the most effective action would be regime change - taking him out of power - before many people die.

Our nuclear defenses are not 100% effective and the tests have only been for the most part taking down a single projectile as opposed to dozens fired at once. In this event, it is likely than one would get through if not more.

Neither Russia nor China has stated they would back us (the U.S) if this resulted in actual nuclear launch and detonation. The would be no way to limit fatalities and if Seoul goes down it is likely that other flashpoints around the world will escalate.

China still does not want to see a regime change in North Korea which was stated days ago, once more. It is their safety zone against the massive U.S. presence on their doorstep and South Korea.

There is a limit to the "if you don't stop, we are going to hurt you bad" rhetoric from both sides.

None of the mainstream media at this point has much credibility on anything.

Medclinician - The Real News CWN - Global Independent Media - GIM.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2017 at 4:48am
North Korea Submarine missile threat - current - August 3, 2017

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2017 at 10:01am
We do have a worse case scenario. Two highly volatile leaders - President Trump and Kim Jong-un on a collision course in Guam. The government is united on the fact that neither sanctions or diplomacy is going to diffuse this situation.  America - via Trump - has truly put themselves with the waving bone in the air scenario from 2001 Space Odyssey. While some are waffling as whether we will use nukes, Trump is not. 

What has been missed in this is that it doesn't matter whether we or Japan can intercept the missile. If it is launched, we will launch. Very few countries commenting on what they will do if America declares war on North Korea.

I have heard my lines from the game I wrote World War III from Crystalware and later inspired War Games "the only way to win is not to play".  In the 80s I felt we needed to cut down the nuclear arsenals and some of my words even found their way into the Salt Peace talks and were on the evening news.

Sadly, and ironically, I think I am listened to more now, by more people, and yet - I now think the only way to lose this game - is not to play. If we back down and do not follow through, the U.S. will lose in a way on the world stage that will encourage dozens of other wanna-be nuke nations to not only develop, but launch them in there bush and tribal wars, in the middle East, and even Iran will strike Jerusalem in the aftermath.

Russian forces are circling the U.S. and one cannot predict how bad it could get, but we know it could escalate globally.

Regime change. And this is opposed by both China and Russia - is the only solution which may save lives and stop millions from dying.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2017 at 11:00am
We should have settled this along time ago!


It seems strangely difficult for some to realize that here in Asia is where the communist conspirators have elected to make their play for global conquest, and that we have joined the issue thus raised on the battlefield; that here we fight Europe's war with arms while the diplomats there still fight it with words; that if we lose the war to communism in Asia the fall of Europe is inevitable, win it and Europe most probably would avoid war and yet preserve freedom. As you pointed out, we must win. There is no substitute for victory.

Douglas MacArthur letter to congress   5 April 1951

And just an FYI for our younger members, we have an armistice with NK! We are basically still in a state of war (or police action if you prefer) with them. Under international law either side can resume hostilities with prior notice at any time!
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