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North Korea must be stopped

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Technophobe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2017 at 12:43pm
Clap  Well said, Arirish!  
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2017 at 1:14pm
Absolutely right Arirish!  

When I was a young boy in New Zealand, I watched American aircraft landing on the airfield beside the transit camp we were living in at the time in Ashburton (South Island New Zealand).  Every few days these twin engined aircraft (Dakotas) loaded with wounded men, who seemed just boys, were flown away; presumably taking them to hospital.  Twin engined fighter bomber aircraft also arrived there.  I remember it all clearly because the young pilots and crew made an absolute fuss of me giving me chewing gum and American chocolate bars etc..  I was also allowed to sit in their airplanes and had a model of a mustang fighter made of pressed tin they had given to me, until I was in my 30s when it got lost with moving around back in England.

That would have been about 1950 or so I believe.  My big brother went to Korea with the military and fortunately did not get injured by the experience.  I am 73 years old now.  I was just a kid then, so this has been going on for an entire generation and people died like flies on both sides in Korea back then.  It is about time it was stopped.  If that means blowing The crazy cockroach and his evil cabal through the gates of hell: where they belong!  - then so be it.  My only regret is that I am too old and damaged to be beside the men that will have to do the job with an L1A1 in my hands or whatever the present military rifle is - as long as it is not one of those damn silly SA80 rabbit-guns they supply our soldiers with now.

Incidentally, does anyone else think our government is stupid sending our soldiers to war with rifles of the caliber we used to shoot hares with when I was a kid, when the enemy are using 7.62s (WIN308)? 

Like I have said before, time to kill Kim Jong Un and all the rest of them.  Let God sort it out.  I certainly don't think there is any of them worth saving.  Maybe America should send a few pairs of balls over there, so his whimpering cohorts can have a transplant and gain the courage to shoot the son-of-a-bitch.

Apologies for the language, Albert, but that little SOB is really beginning to piss me off.  'And no way can he be held up as typical of Korean people.  If anyone hears that he is being hit, please let me know.  I WOULD JUST LOVE TO SEE THOSE B1s FLYING!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2017 at 3:53pm
Well I have my son keeping his gas tank full. We have a plan for him to come home BOB in tow if the crazy fat kid hits Guam. We will respond and if it is with a nuke or conventional weapons we will be at war and no telling what Russia or China will do. Movie Red Dawn is a great example.   I am looking at sheltering at home with fallout and looking at purchasing a Geiger counter.

I do not believe NK can hit the heartland yet but fallout is a real concern. I just purchased more KI.

Folks any of you know Asian tradition of "Saving Face"? Well this crazy fat kid said he would hit Guam Mid August...next week. If he does not hit Guam he loses "Face". I can't see him not doing what he said he was going to do!

Trump is right he is not daring NK. Trump is just doing what should have been done long ago telling them we will crush you. I would be getting out of Guam if I could.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2017 at 9:38pm
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2017 at 11:28pm
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/24/how-to-take-down-kim-jong-un-215411?cmpid=sf

But there is an opportunity in Kim’s obsession with survival. While he assumes the United States would not start a catastrophic war to stop his nuclear program, he also knows that were he to start that war, the U.S. would have no reason to hold back. We could, and likely would, destroy his regime. This means that even if we can’t prevent North Korea from gaining the ability to hit us or our allies, we can deter it from actually doing so, and thus have time to pursue, by means more effective than sanctions and less dangerous than war, our ultimate goal of a reunified Korea that threatens no one.
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 3:01am
There appears to be a continuation of the schism between Trump and his administration.  He is threatening and they appear to be conciliating.   I think he is in the right and they are displaying cowardice, conciliation has failed up until now.  But, that is just my opinion.  

When it comes to the exercise of democracy, Trump is probably in the wrong by trying to subdue the rest of his team.  But, that is not the story in the run-up to war.  Make no mistake.  That is what this is and what it should be.  Conscientious objection/diplomacy is almost always the best option, but that would have left Hitler unopposed.  I believe KJU to be just as evil.  

Just imagine Hitler with nuclear tipped ICBMs!

Crack the whip Donny!  Executive powers were invented for just such a situation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 7:59am

Someone Flipped Trump’s Hair With Kim Jong Un’s, And It’s Absolutely Unnerving


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-kim-jong-un-hair_us_598d2510e4b0909642960d20?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 8:31am
'Actually suits both of them!LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 8:44am
There is a serious situation here.  As I thought before, neither China or Russia is going to sit back while we preempitively attack North Korea.

If I were an adviser to Kim Jong-un I would say - don't attack anything. Just keep building and getting stronger for when you will.  This may be what his key advisers are telling him. Keep trashing America in rhetoric, demonstrations, and the media - but don't launch.

It would be suicide to do so. Also, we are hearing mixed messages from China.

https://www.rt.com/news/399310-china-prevent-us-strike-nkorea/


I wanted to go over some of the stuff in this RT article. I do think it mirrors the sentiment right now of China and probably Russia as well.

China will prevent the US and South Korea from carrying out strikes on North Korea and trying to overthrow the leadership there, but will remain neutral if Pyongyang launches missiles at American targets first, the state-run Global Times said.

comment: So, as I said, they don't want us taking Kim Jong-un out. He is a proxy thorn in the U.S. side and buffer zone from American and South Korean military.

Also there are some subtle but important innuendos here.

Beijing should make it clear that “if North Korea launches missiles that threaten US soil first and the US retaliates, China will stay neutral,” the Global Times wrote.

Problem here. Is Guam U.S. soil? Or at least does China think so. We have to remember China is currently under the impression the South China Sea is Chinese soil. We have been hovering near a war there for years. What will China do it Kim Jong-un launches on Guam and we vaporize North Korea?

There are some spooky words here which bother me a lot...

But if the US and its ally South Korea take on Pyongyang and try to “overthrow the North Korean regime and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so,” the paper stressed.

comment: this would be an act of war and result in World War III.  It is also unlikely the Russian will stay out of this and just watch China and the U.S. fight.

This is important because Russia still has the most nukes by 200 although these figures are subject to real verification.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 8:51am
Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

'Actually suits both of them!LOL
Hairswap


I think this is called "comic relief" --- drum roll.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/comic-relief


Perhaps they will find this on some buried computer a century after the war.  There are "hot wings" i.e. food and "hot fingers on the trigger" driven by massive egos and whose whatever is the "biggest".

Yet looks aside, hair especially, we nearing a real crisis.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 10:21am
Quite honestly, I can't be too excited about NK having an ICBM. 

All they have proven is that they can launch a can straight up in the air.  No proof of targeting, no re-entry vehicle, no proof of a viable warhead design etc. 

If they wanted to strike the USA with precision, they'd smuggle the warhead into the USA, plant it in a city, and detonate it at will.  That is an old Soviet strategy ("backpack nuke"), and they are being helped by former USSR missile and bomb technicians. 

Kim Jong Un wants attention, we are giving it to him.  If we want to strangle him, punish the Chinese banks and put in a naval embargo.  I'd also target his command staff by tracking down their money and taking it.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 12:19pm
CRS, DrPH, I think you are correct. "Words as weapons" is not proof of W.M.D.. The bases for western agression against Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, governmentchange in Ukraine was "not strong". 

I can imagine that China and Russia are winning the "cold war"between the US and NK. (Trump has not much support international, tradewars worsen EU-US relations.)



One of the reasons NK can be this form of a stalinist dictatorship is in history. From 1910 to 1945 Korea was the victum of an axis-power; Japan. Koreans were treated as slaves or less. In 1950-53 up to 15% of the NK population was killed by carpet-bombing. Korea has had a horror-history. The NK people believe that their government can provide some safety by getting nuclear weapons. 

The US point of view that NK has to give in to the US demands is not shared by Russia and China. They (and others) would also like to see the US taking de-escalating steps. 

President Eisenhower warned for the military-industrial-complex getting to much power. The present crisis is good for some shareholders-but bad for most people !
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Quite honestly, I can't be too excited about NK having an ICBM. 

All they have proven is that they can launch a can straight up in the air.  No proof of targeting, no re-entry vehicle, no proof of a viable warhead design etc. 

If they wanted to strike the USA with precision, they'd smuggle the warhead into the USA, plant it in a city, and detonate it at will.  That is an old Soviet strategy ("backpack nuke"), and they are being helped by former USSR missile and bomb technicians. 

Kim Jong Un wants attention, we are giving it to him.  If we want to strangle him, punish the Chinese banks and put in a naval embargo.  I'd also target his command staff by tracking down their money and taking it.  



You are thinking intelligently and unfortunately it would appear emotions are running high as well as political posturing and rhetoric.

There are battles in which it is hard to determine although not which side, but who fired the first shot.  A preemptive strike on North Korea by the U.S. will start a nuclear war. Although China does not possess the thousands of nukes America does, it does have some very advanced technology - liquid propellant and also as the Russians - it could bring a low flying drone like missile under our defenses in which a single missile could take out most of Texas. This is a reality.

I once asked the governor of a state what the greatest lesson I could learn from him in politics if I ever decided to run for office or become active in the government in some way. He told me...
"Don't tell anyone no. Tell them it sounds interesting and then give them numbers to call that might help them."

Well China has been passing the buck to North Korea since the war and has created a buffer zone and proxy to fight with the U.S.. They don't have to say no when we ask them to help with North Korea. They just say yes and then don't. They go along with sanctions and still are selling oil to North Korea.

"We will stop you" now the latest statement by the Chinese means just that. They will attack.

A real problem is many look at the way Kim Jong-un has been threatening us with imminent doom for a long time. Obama's way to handle it was to ignore him.  It put off the solution as we have the government debt which may bring us to our knees in a month. Yet we are past the point of stalling and have a young crazy big guy in power.  How old is Kim Jong-un?

Born:Jan 8, 1982, (North Korean records), Jan 8, 1983, (South Korean records), Jan 8, 1984, (American records), Jul 5, 1984, (Swiss records), Pyongyang, Democratic People's Republic of Korea

By American records he turned 35 on Jan 8.

John F. Kennedy, our 35th President was 45 when he was sworn in. While nothing like Kim Jong-un - youth has its fire and passion and also craziness. It may be that life becomes more precious as people become older and less likely to set off World War III.

JFK gave the order to stop the Russians and we all were on our knees doing drills in homeroom that day. Now Guam is trying to plan what do in case of a nuclear attack.

Most of the cities in the U.S. - especially San Jose near where I live - have no plan in case we are hit. I doubt Los Angeles or Seattle do either. It is extremely doubtful New York does.

The point is - it is much more likely the order will be given to attack by Trump than any president in office since Kennedy except for maybe Bush who ordered the invasion of Iraq. However the first shot had been fired, rather scud missiles hitting Israel and there was really no choice.

Second is, Saddam Hussein ordered a missile attack on Israel knowing we could nuke Baghdad.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/19/sprj.irq.main/

Kim Jong-un may in desperation, if he thinks he will never get to attack or shame the U.S. in some way, order a launch. Could be tonight. That is what is disturbing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 12:38pm
The Aussies will back the U.S. if it comes down to a war.

The U.S. does have allies and there are treaties in place and perhaps even sadly for Australia, they will be drawn in.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/aug/11/turnbull-pledges-support-to-us

Malcolm Turnbull has made it plain that Australia will be involved in any conflict in the event North Korea attacks the United States.

The prime minister told 3AW on Friday morning “if there is an attack on the US, the Anzus treaty would be invoked” and Australia would come to the aid of the United States.

He said the form of Australia’s engagement would be determined in consultation with allies. “In terms of defence, we are joined at the hip,” Turnbull said.

comment: They are valuable allies and it is clear all of our allies are united against North Korea.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Quite honestly, I can't be too excited about NK having an ICBM. 

All they have proven is that they can launch a can straight up in the air.  No proof of targeting, no re-entry vehicle, no proof of a viable warhead design etc. 

If they wanted to strike the USA with precision, they'd smuggle the warhead into the USA, plant it in a city, and detonate it at will.  That is an old Soviet strategy ("backpack nuke"), and they are being helped by former USSR missile and bomb technicians. 

Kim Jong Un wants attention, we are giving it to him.  If we want to strangle him, punish the Chinese banks and put in a naval embargo.  I'd also target his command staff by tracking down their money and taking it.  

I Hope you are right,Chuck.  I suspect you are - you usually are.  

That would mean that the damage NK could do is far less.  But it does not change my point.  The longer we  leave it, the worse it gets.  Assuming you are correct, this means we are still in time to stop the cockroach   If we wait until he perfects the system/weaponry then it may be too late to get rid of him.  Then we will have to deal with a nuclear power controlled by an egomaniac with all the empathy of an autistic child with an ant farm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 3:01pm
its all posturing,

nothing will happen ,

China has DPRK right where it wants it,

China also "OWNS" Pakistan,

if Kim Fires a missile ,it is to warn off the USA 

"keep away from OUR islands"

this has nothing to do with DPRK

its all to do with China's expandtion

every time the "nine dash line "is threatend 

Kim ups the Ante.............Image result


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 3:06pm
and guess where it all leads.......

"The Great Southern land"....AUSTRALIA........and all our Empty Space and Mineral wealth

a very nice Juicy Plum.......

all ripe for the Plucking..............

they Buying up big Cattle stations very remote locations AS I WRITE ,

easy to fly planes in undetected,they could have 50,000 troops in before any one wakes up

good moive if you never watched it ......

Image result
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 3:35pm
we Only 22 million,in a very very BIG COUNTRY






<-viewer-group>
Australia's Size Compared. Australia is the planet's sixth largest country after Russia, Canada, China, the USA, and Brazil. At 7 692 024 km2, it accounts for just five percent of the world's land area of 149 450 000 km2, and although it is the smallest continental land mass, it is the world's largest island.

Australia's Size Compared - Geoscience Australia

www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/national-location.../australias-size-compared
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 10:06pm
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-11/does-kim-jong-uns-strategy-make-sense

Conclusion

The bottom line is that the United States cannot afford to attack the DPRK. Pyongyang will continue to develop its own nuclear arsenal, with Beijing's covert blessing in spite of its officially continuing to condemn these developments. At the same time, South Korea is likely to persevere with a hostile attitude, especially in regard to the deployment of new THAAD batteries. Sooner or later, Seoul will come to a breaking point as a result of further restrictions on trade between China and South Korea. As long as Seoul is able to absorb Chinese sanctions, little will change.

What will lead to a major change in the region will be the economic effect of these restrictions that will eventually oblige Seoul to consider its role in the region and its future. Seoul's leadership is aware of three situations that will hardly change, namely: Pyongyang will never attack first; Beijing will continue to support North Korea rather than accept the United States on its border; and Washington is not able to bring solutions but only greater chaos and a worsening global economic situation to the region. In the light of this scenario, time is all on the side of Beijing and Pyongyang. Eventually the economic situation for Seoul will become unbearable, bringing it to the negotiating table with a weakened and certainly precarious position. Beijing and Pyongyang have a long-term common goal, which is to break the bond of submission between South Korea and the United States, freeing Seoul from Washington's neo-conservative programs to contain China (on a Russia containment model).

Indirectly coordinated work between Beijing and Pyongyang is hardly understandable to Western analysts, but examining every aspect, especially with regard to cause-and-effect relationships, these decisions are not so incomprehensible and even more rational in a broader viewing of the region and its balance of power. On the one hand, Seoul sees the DPRK offering peace, stability and prosperity based on a framework agreement between Seoul, Pyongyang and Beijing. This would also particularly benefit South Korean trade with China, eventually returning to normal relationships between countries, with important economic benefits.

The alternative is an alliance with Washington that would completely eliminate the economic benefits of a healthy relationship with Beijing. This could even potentially lead to a war involving millions of deaths, fought on South Korean soil and not in the United States. The United States does not offer any solutions to South Korea, either in the short or long term. The only thing Washington is offering is a fixed presence in the country, together with a stubborn anti-Chinese policy that would have serious economic consequences for Seoul.

As paradoxical as it may seem, Kim Jong-un's rockets are much less of a threat than is Seoul’s partnership with Washington in the region, and in fact seem to offer Seoul the ultimate solution to the crisis in the peninsula.

Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2017 at 10:12pm
Another aspect, NK is not the only small country with nuclear weapons. They took that idea from Israel. 

It has been suggested that North Korea has sought to model its nuclear weapons programme on Israel's, as "a small-state deterrent for a country surrounded by powerful enemies; to display enough activity to make possession of a nuclear device plausible to the outside world, but with no announcement of possession: in short, to appear to arm itself with an ultimate trump card and keep everyone guessing whether and when the weapons might become available."[10]
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
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