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OT: looks like tough times ahead for Stock Market?

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Albert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2008 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by Mary08 Mary08 wrote:

AP excerpt-

...Says CEO Richard Dorner: "Capital is tight, and we're preserving ours." 
 
Like I said before, once the banks receive any money, they will still sit on it, and  "preserve it", until the market turns around. The banks will remain cautious either way and this will not get them lending.  This move could also actually allow banks to go longer without lending money, and it helps them stay afloat without having to lend.  Why would banks lend money and begin generating a revenue again when they can get the money for free?  
 
This whole thing stinks of a CEO bailout.  I'm sure the CEOs will get their normal bonuses from ths one as well.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2008 at 12:13pm
Looks like the CEOs might get those big bonuses after all.     
 
 

Kucinich calls for probe of bonuses for Wall Street aid recipients

 
Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) has called for a probe into $70 billion worth of pay deals planned for employees of failed banking firms receiving government aid.

Kucinich said Sunday that he was directing his staff to immediately probe Wall Street firms that have received any portion of the $700 billion bailout plan recently passed by Congress, in response to a recent report by The Guardian outlining the firms' dramatic drops in revenue, but not in executive compensation.

That Friday report showed that over $70 billion was to be allocated towards pay deals, including discretionary bonuses, at firms such as Goldman Sachs and Citigroup.

"When Congress placed restrictions on excessive executive pay, it had no intention of permitting business as usual with respect to bonus structures," Kucinich said. "It would add insult to injury to ask taxpayers not only to bailout a firm, but to pay for bonuses as well. The Guardian’s report necessitates an immediate inquiry."

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Kucinich_calls_for_probe_of_taxpayerfunded_1019.html
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from google...

  1. Real Time Economics : Can the Government Force Banks to Lend?

    Oct 18, 2008 ... The US government is putting up $250 billion from the $700 billion financial- system rescue plan to inject capital directly into banks.
    blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/10/18/can-the-government-force-banks-to-lend/ - 174k - Cached - Similar pages
  2. LewRockwell.com Blog: Dr. Krugman's Prescription: FORCE Banks to Lend

    Oct 27, 2008 ... Dr. Krugman's Prescription: FORCE Banks to Lend. Posted by Bill Anderson at October 27, 2008 08:15 AM. Those wicked free marketeers in the ...
    www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/023679.html - 5 hours ago - Similar pages
  3. Treasury unable to force banks to lend out money - Related Stories ...

    Treasury unable to force banks to lend out money. SIFMA SmartBrief | 10/15/2008. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson persuaded Morgan Stanley, Citigroup and ...
    www.smartbrief.com/news/SIFMA/storyDetails.jsp?issueid=5FB726C6-0D41-4AEC-984D-E5C464661FCA&copyid... - 22k - Cached - Similar pages
  4. Paulson unable to force banks to lend out money - Related Stories ...

    Paulson unable to force banks to lend out money. CFA Institute Financial NewsBrief | 10/15/2008. U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson persuaded Morgan ...
    www.smartbrief.com/news/cfa/storyDetails.jsp?issueid=384624D9-44A3-4618-919B-7A9BFB9F0BB8&copyid...C898... - 10k - Cached - Similar pages
    More results from www.smartbrief.com »
  5. Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: Compelling Banks To Lend At ...

    For now, you can force banks to take money, but you can't force them to lend it. Let's explore this theory starting with a look at the Drama Behind a $250 ...
    globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/10/compelling-banks-to-lend-at-bazooka.html - 76k - Cached - Similar pages
  6. Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

    Oct 15, 2008 ... Getting them to lend it out may prove a tougher sell. ... Treasury officials acknowledge they can't force banks to get the taxpayer money ...
    www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=amZ3uCIUB8GQ&refer=home - Similar pages
  7. Paulson’s intention was NOT to force banks to make loans, unlike ...

    Oct 26, 2008 ... force banks to lend to businesses so that people keep their jobs. It might just buy the time needed to get everyone off the easy credit game ...
    www.reddit.com/r/business/comments/79gwo/paulsons_intention_was_not_to_force_banks_to_make/ - Similar pages
  8. Dr. Krugman's Prescription: FORCE Banks to Lend : Libertarian

    Oct 27, 2008 ... Dr. Krugman's Prescription: FORCE Banks to Lend (lewrockwell.com). submitted 19 minutes ago by ryanh29 · comment · share. sort by: ...
    www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/79md1/dr_krugmans_prescription_force_banks_to_lend/ - 4 hours ago - Similar pages
    More results from www.reddit.com »
  9. Banks pledge to lend to small businesses - Telegraph

    Oct 13, 2008 ... The Government's decision to require banks that request public ... from banks it would be dangerous to force banks to lend to firms that did ...
    www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/yourbusiness/3190857/Banks-pledge-to-lend-to-small-businesses.html - Similar pages
  10. Leading article: Our dysfunctional banks must be compelled to lend ...

    Oct 24, 2008 ... The Government's clear responsibility is to force the banks to act in the national interest. That means commanding them to lend to small ...
    www.independent.co.uk/opinion/leading.../leading-article-our-dysfunctional-banks-must-be-compelled-to-lend-971400.html - 96k - Cached - Similar pages



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Albert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2008 at 4:05pm
Anyone think we'll close under 8,000 tomorrow?  
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MelodyAtHome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2008 at 4:16pm
Hi Albert, I think we will close under 8000 tomorrow or the next day...but most likely tomorrow.  DOW futures down 19 at 7:15pm eastern time. Just sounds like more bad news coming out this week.
We started up our wood burning fireplace...trying to get our propane to last as long as possible this winter:O) Trying to save where we can and make more where we can LOL...we are in for a scarey, rough ride.
My husband's factory is down to 4 days a week through end of year...actually more days off around Thanksgiiving, Christmas/New Years...not sure how many non paid days there will be until hubby brings home the schedule. Lucky for him he is in a different dept with just one other guy and t hey get to work the full 5 days. They used to work Saturdays(time and half) and Sundays(double time) but that ended almost 2 years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote waterboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2008 at 6:56pm

Gee whiz.. Did you see how well the markets did today?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2008 at 5:49am
I would say we'll be down -300 today, unless, the U.S. continues to dump more money into the market.   Is the U.S. bailing out the banks, or is the idea to pump up the market by injecting money?  Probably both.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LaRo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2008 at 6:01am
The plunge protection team has been in place for awhile and they are not part of the $700 billion giveaway (now being used to bailout the banks).
r we there yet?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2008 at 12:52pm
Gas prices came back in a matter of 90 days.  Who knows .... Maybe the market will do the same.  Thumbs%20Up
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MelodyAtHome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2008 at 4:35pm
I've been watching the stock market for years and I have NEVER seen it so volatile like this. Like a rollercoaster ride! LOL. There is more excitement then any scarey movie...that's for sure!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kilt2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2008 at 11:00pm
 
The price of houses is still crashing
 
The economy is still going into recession
 
People are still losing their jobs
 
Dead cat bounces mean nothing in bear markets
 
The debt bubble is stopping people from borrowing more
 
The consumer confidence is still at a 42 year low
 
The consumer spending in the US which is 70% of the entire economy is slowing and that spells disaster
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 6:18am
goes to show ..if the U.S. Govt is so out of touch they allow Corps to trash our middle class

(cake and well done! certificates instead of raises, no pensions, or health care) Bright Boy,

allows an unregulated market to disappear retiree's gains then goes off to head up his

buddy's Hedge Fund...and to top it off ... local state and federal Govt. taxes them to

death..nothing is left to fuel the economy. 

Kind of like the Koreans, big war machine, lousy economy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 6:33am
October 30th, 2008
Economy moves into reverse
Posted: 08:54 AM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — The nation’s economy slammed into reverse in the third quarter, as the government’s initial reading of economic activity in the period declined.

The gross domestic product, the broadest measure of the nation’s economy, fell at an annual rate of 0.3 percent in the period. That compared with a 2.8 percent growth rate in the second quarter, when economic stimulus checks and strong exports spurred by a weak dollar resulted in solid growth that vanished in the latest reading.

The decline wasn’t quite as bad as forecasts. Economists surveyed by Briefing.com had estimated GDP would plunge 0.5 percent. But the fall was the weakest performance for the economy since the last recession seven years ago.

By Chris Isidore
CNNMoney.com senior writer
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Consumer spending
, which accounts for two-thirds of the economy, dropped by the largest amount in 28 years in the third quarter.


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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/financial_meltdown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 6:55am
And the stocks are up.. Makes no sense..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 7:16am
The government is trying to "pump up" the market to get people investing again.  It's similar to a pump and dump, but hopefully nobody will dump at the end.  On Monday, they announced news of the money being injected into the banks, which is to get the pump going and to get people investing.  As the momentum builds and as they move into positive territory, they then announced the interest rate cut to keep it going, and to keep people excited ....  The problem is that they're running out of good news to keep the pump going, which is usually when it begins to crash.   Cutting the interest rates and injecting money into the market this week is giving people a false sense of excitement and security, which is usually followed by panic when it doesn't work.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 7:28am

"... the hedge-fund industry - lords of havoc..."



Yes, the US economy is still the biggest in the world and changes in US interest rates affect the entire global financial system. But there is something very dark indeed at the heart of this story and it is called the hedge-fund industry - lords of havoc who, a consensus is building, have the potential to be responsible for the next great crash - and nobody knows what to do about it.


Howard Davies, then chairman of Britain's Financial Services Authority (FSA), admitted in 2000 that hedge funds were not very well understood by policy-makers and regulators, but then added: "That is not astonishing in one sense, in that if we do not regulate it, we need know less about it. But it is clear that if we are interested in systemic stability, we cannot ignore a sector which can mobilise around the same volume of assets as the US commercial banking sector."


When Dr Ben Bernanke, chairman of the US Federal Reserve, the most important financial supervisor of all, was quizzed by the US Senate banking committee about whether derivatives - complex financial instruments liberally used by hedge funds - should be regulated, he commented: "Derivatives, for the most part, aretraded among very sophisticated financial institutions and individuals who have considerable incentive to understand them and use them properly." This statement came pretty close to admitting that regulators don't have a clue what is going on and are therefore powerless to regulate the funds. Given their sheer size and increasing influence, this is stunning - and scary.


Hedge funds are private investment funds, primarily organised as limited partnerships - in essence, betting syndicates for the very rich. The amount of money they handle, in so far as anyone can estimate this, is mind-bogglingly large. The IMF's best estimate is $1trn; industry professionals reckon $1.5trn. If hedge funds were a country, it would be the eighth-largest in the world. To invest in one of these funds, you have to put in a minimum of $1m, although that initial investment is chicken feed compared with what can be earned - if that is the right verb for what amounts to global-scale gambling. The US Institutional Investor Magazine reckons that the top 25 hedge-fund managers in 2005 earned on average $251m each in 2004 - compared with $10m for the CEO of a typical top 500 US corporation.


Hedge funds are not new - just notorious. They started to take off properly in the late 1970s when floating exchange rates and volatile interest-rate movements transformed the capital markets, and gathered momentum as technology and electronic trading became increasingly quick and soph isticated. The funds were - and are - run typically by a tight group of traders, backed usually by fewer than a hundred individuals prepared to commit a great deal of money into their hands. Today, it is estimated that there are 9,000 funds and what started as a US phenomenon is spreading - though the FSA estimates that there are at present only 325 hedge funds based in the UK.


The key features of these funds are that they trade in eye-watering risk and they are barely regulated. The two are related. Because they answer to nobody but themselves, hedge funds have side-stepped regulation and can do as they like. What they like is risk - and their main tool is "leverage" - borrowing to play the markets. It is not unusual for a hedge-fund investor to control $100m in securities with only a $5m down payment. Of course, that means that when a bet goes wrong, it goes spectacularly wrong. If the hedge-fund industry's positions in the market are 20 times the cash they actually hold, their potential impact on the world financial system is about equal to US GDP.


That is why the emerging-market stock markets have taken such a battering over the past two months. Hedge funds poured money into emerging markets in the search for high returns, able to borrow billions relatively cheaply while interest rates were low. But as soon as the cost of borrowing increased they had to bail out rapidly, leaving the developing economies to clean up the mess.


Of course, recent losses were preceded by spectacular gains. India's stock market had doubled in two years, hailed by the country's leaders as proof that the Indian economy had taken off. For some, at least, it has - but the stock-market boom has greatly exaggerated India's progress. There have been huge inflows of equity investment from foreign investment banks and hedge funds and a large portion of that money came not from New York, London or Frankfurt, but from Mauritius, an Indian Ocean island that just happens to be a tax haven.


Yet no economy can possibly benefit in the long term from a tsunami of "hot money" crashing in and rolling out as fast as it had arrived.


Excerpt from...


Sell-out: Why hedge funds will destroy the world

Janet Bush

Published 31 July 2006 (all the big boys got out early on,fall 06, spring 07)

please read full article here

http://www.newstatesman.com/200607310033


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 7:35am
American Express, hammered by the credit crisis, says it will slash 7,000 jobs as part of a drastic cost-cutting initiative. Cnn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2008 at 7:49am
Hmmmmmm. Now steadily dropping.
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Exxon Mobil posts biggest US quarterly profit ever



HOUSTON -

Exxon Mobil Corp., the world's largest publicly traded oil company, reported income Thursday that shattered its own record for the biggest profit from operations by a U.S. corporation, earning $14.83 billion in the third quarter.

source
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081030/ap_on_bi_ge/earns_exxon_mobil
............

Exxon Mobil posts biggest US quarterly profit ever [AP Financial News]
(30 Oct 2008 10:35:00 EDT)
HOUSTON_Exxon Mobil Corp., the world's largest publicly traded oil company, reported income Thursday that shattered its own record for the biggest profit from operations by a U.S. corporation, earning $14.83 billion in the third quarter. The Irving, Texas-based company has reported unprecedented back-to-back quarters, the end of the most recent coinciding with a rapid plunge in crude prices.




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