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SOLAR ENERGY

Printed From: COVID-19 / South Africa Omicron Variant
Category: Coronavirus Pandemic: Prepping Forums
Forum Name: Electricity and Solar Energy
Forum Description: (Electricity & solar energy)
URL: http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1108
Printed Date: March 28 2024 at 1:59am


Topic: SOLAR ENERGY
Posted By: Guests
Subject: SOLAR ENERGY
Date Posted: February 02 2006 at 5:47pm

Is there anyone out there who could/would post information (in layman's terms) about solar power?

1)  using a solar recharger.

2)  Using a larger array/panel to power refrigerator and/or freezer.

3)  Installing a whole house system.

I am totally clueless on this and although I have tried to figure it out, I just zone out.

TIA

 




Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 02 2006 at 5:57pm

I need to know too  I bought a generator and one solar panel and would

like as much imformation as posible.  They are just sitting in the box I planned  to be sitting with a candle one night trying to figure them out.  



Posted By: meewee
Date Posted: February 02 2006 at 5:59pm

Sophia;

Spoon made a really good post on the pandemic preparedness thread under electricity. It gives the web sites of two solar power companies. Another that would help you out is http://www.realgoods.com - www.realgoods.com they were really helpful when I was off line.

Meewee



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God Bless us all!


Posted By: mightymouse
Date Posted: February 02 2006 at 6:47pm

SZ,

A really, really good site is http://hamiltonferris.com - http://hamiltonferris.com  - they span the range from sailboats, camping trailers, and whole house systems.  They are great to work with.  I have been on a boat out at sea for many weeks at a time and between a wind gen. and 120w solar panel never had to turn on the engine alternator except when it was cloudy for a couple days and there was no wind.  Had two battery banks plus a seperate eng. start batt.  'Lived large' so to say off the grid.  Reefer, lights, radio, fans, etc. no problem mon.  One could do a house for simple needs for a reasonable $.  I know that some power cos. have programs to assist people with alternative energy.  Some programs are actually quite liberal.  Did I say good and liberal in the same sentence? - Whew! that was close.  As to reefers and freezers be sure to get one that is both 120v and 12v as it takes too much energy to run an inverter to operate a regular household reefer/freezer.  12v systems are much, much better insulated.  You can even get multi-units that run on 120v, 12v, and propane.  Some even run on kerosene.  Many sailors though learn to do without refrigeration altogether and that is probably the best option long term unless you have plenty of moola. 



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Nothing matters - Therefore everything matters


Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 02 2006 at 7:35pm

I'm far from an expert, but this is what I learned so far.

Trying to replace the grid, in the average home, can cost $20,000+.  The first part of any good solar plan is to trim the fat.  High efficient bulbs, appliances, pumps, alternate heat, propane/gas stove, on-demand propane hot water heater, are all good starts.  I purchased the book  http://www.backwoodssolar.com/Catalogpages2/bookvid2.htm - The Home Energy Diet  from Backwoods Solar.  A very helpfull book.  One of their tips talks about phantom power.  Some appliances actually draw power even when they're off.  It adds up at the end of the month.  A cheap switchable power strip solves that problem.

Once you calculate your minimum kilowatt (kW) usage from your power bill, you can start building your system.

The basic components include:

Solar panel(s) - Can be wired in series or parallel to produce 12, 24 or 48 volts.  There are several reasons for picking the proper voltage but 12v works well with a basic setup and with wire runs less than a 100' to the charge contoller.

Charge Controller - All solar panels wire directly to the charge controller.  The CC then regulates the amount of juice that goes into the battery(s).  When the battery is charged, the CC backs off to a float charge, basically keeping it topped off.

Battery(s) - This all comes down to how much power you want/need in reserve.  They come in many different flavors.  I decided to go with a couple of sealed AGM (absorbed glass mat) batteries. They're about the safest battery to keep in a living area (no fumes).

Inverter(s) - Inverters convert the DC current from the battery to AC household current

There are many other options.  You can add a generator to supplement battery charging on overcast days and add a power transfer switch.  These switches can be manual or automatically switch among solar, generator, or grid.

http://www.backwoodssolar.com - Backwoods Solar is the place to dive deeper into the subject.



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 02 2006 at 7:40pm

Spoon, 

You supplied me with a bit of crucial information/understanding that I have apparently always failed to grasp!

That Charge Controller do-hicky!  Now the pieces are falling into place.

Thanks!



Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 02 2006 at 7:52pm

I put together a basic setup for about $1200.  If anyone is interested, I can put together a basic set of instructions on how I hooked up a 123w, 7 amp, PV solar panel to a rolling 1500w inverter with 60 amp hour (ah)battery.

This setup can be fully charged on a sunny day and half charged on a cloudy day.  I wanted the abilty to run my stove fans, TV, flourescent lighting or just recharge cell phones, flashlights, etc.



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 02 2006 at 7:55pm

Spoon, I would personally love it if you would.  When I posted the thread I was looking for a good "Reader's Digest" kinda thing.

I promise, I have tried to understand this stuff.  And just what you posted so far has gone a long way in helping the pieces come together.



Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 03 2006 at 2:22pm

After looking at several panels, and power storage options, I decided to buy a Sharp 123w, 7.16 amp, Solar Panel and Xantrex xPower 1500.

The Xantrex has a 60 amp-hour battery and the panel produces about 7 amps per hour.  It takes about 8 hours to fully charge the Xantrex on a sunny day.

When I purchased this equipment back in November, Costco.com had the best deal on both items.

  • http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10037445&whse=&topnav=&browse=&s=1 - Xantrex xPower 1500  - $299
  • Sunforce RV Solar Kit - Includes Sharp 123w Panel, 30 amp Charge Controller (connect up to four panels), Mounting Hardware, 20' Wire, Voltage Tester, Xantrex 175w Cigarette Lighter Inverter - $699.  The Sunforce Kit is missing, at the moment, from Costco.  I would keep checking back if you cannot find it somewhere else.  I've seen it disappear/reappear before.
  • Extension Cord - What ever length necessary to connect the panel to the charge controller (up to 100')
  • 6' Gray "Large Appliance" Extension Cord
  • 12 Wood Screws - Replaces sheet metal screws that come with RV mounting brackets, if mounting panel to wood.
  • Various Crimp Connectors
  • Female Cigarette Lighter Plug - I found a male to dual female splitter at an auto parts store and just cut one of the females off leaving a couple inches of wire

I will take a few photos this weekend to illustrate the connections.

 



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: Ella Fitzgerald
Date Posted: February 03 2006 at 2:24pm

Spoon-

You're the man!

Thanks



Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 05 2006 at 12:41pm

My Basic Solar Power Installation - Part 1 of 2

Disclaimer:  I am NOT a licensed electrician.  I taught myself by reading Wiring Simplified by H.P. Richter, and doing all of the electrical work in my home office remodeling project.  PLEASE treat all wires as "live" and always respect the dangers of electricity.  This panel produces 7 amps in the sun (it only takes about 0.03 amps across the heart to possibly stop it).

I first took the panel outside and tested the voltage.  The kit comes with a basic voltage tester if you do not have a multimeter.

My shed happens to be facing due south and gets about 7.5 hours of exposure/day in the winter.  I live on the western side of central New Jersey. 

I mounted it to one side of the roof, so I can add a second panel in the near future (panel alone runs about $580).  I drilled a hole in the roof and ran the wires through (red/black from panel's terminal block and green from grounding screw, both on back of panel)...  forgot to mention in my list of supplies above, that you will also need American Wire Gauge (AWG) 14 wire for grounding.  I replaced 12 sheet metal screws, that come in mounting kit, with wood screws and fastened panel to roof.  I ran wires down the inside of my shed and connected all three to a 1' cut piece (female end) of gray extension cord.  I used three crimp butt connectors.  You can also use solder or wire nuts.  The electrical tape is mainly for weather proofing.  I secured the wires with wire staples and then plugged in male end of 85' orange, heavy-duty commericial, extension cord.  This is a good time to keep track of the polarity of the prongs.  You will need to know this when you make the connections to the Charge Controller on the other side.  The easiest way is to use a multimeter or continuity tester to be sure.  If the extension cord was manufactured correctly, the prongs should be opposite to the slots when looking at both ends of cord side-by-side, right-side up (+-)(-+) or (-+)(+-).



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: pola33193
Date Posted: February 05 2006 at 12:51pm

Spoon , this is Pola"s husband  Joe , GREAT IDEA  please I need information on Charge Controller, and how many batts can you charge at a time thank you



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pola


Posted By: koolsteve
Date Posted: February 05 2006 at 1:05pm
i can help, but since the admin will delete my post just like  my others, I will be quick .

In "lamance terms"

All solar energy is basically a way of converting energy for your own gain. see,  when ever you do somthing, such as kick a ball, that is reffered to as kinetic energy. But there are many other types of energy such as soaler energy.  its energy is converted into somthing else by being ABSORBED into those black panels you see on the top. Now i am no expert in this field but this is what I do know from brief studies in school. 

If you dont understand how to use solar power, then i cannot put enough emphasis on the fact that you probobly cant install a whole house system. But there are many guides on this and it should be that expensive since no one really uses it too much. All i can tell you is that you should probobly higher a professional and that the your idea is a great one, depending on where you live that is. Right now it was raining and cloudy, and now it ridicously hot and sunny. all I ask is that  ADMIN DOES NOT DELETE THE POST UNTIL THE TOPIC STARTER READS IT.


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ninjas rule


Posted By: CupcakeMom
Date Posted: February 05 2006 at 6:42pm
Outstanding post, Spoon!  I have been on the verge of buying the same xantrex product with a solar panel.  It is great to get info from someone who has actually connected it all together and made it work.


Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 05 2006 at 9:17pm

My Basic Solar Power Installation - Part 2 of 2

Disclaimer:  I am NOT a licensed electrician.  I taught myself by reading Wiring Simplified by H.P. Richter, and doing all of the electrical work in my home office remodeling project.  PLEASE treat all wires as "live" and always respect the dangers of electricity.  This panel produces 7 amps in the sun (it only takes about 0.03 amps across the heart to possibly stop it).

Meanwhile, behind the facade of this innocent looking patio room

The reason I use the female end of the gray extension cord in the shed is so I'm left with the female end of the orange extension cord in the house.  If the orange cord is laying around unplugged, I do not have to worry about exposed, live, prongs or someone trying to plug it into a wall outlet.

So, now I use the remaining 5' of gray extension cable to connect the orange extension to the Charge Controller.  I attach the wires from the gray cable using two crimp ring connectors.  The electrical tape is mainly used to take the stress off the wire. 

Note: Please make sure you attach the wires in the correct polarity.  It's important that the red(+) and black(-) match from the solar panel to the controller.

The green wire is crimp butt connected to more of the AWG 14 green wire and sent back outside to a 12' ground spike previously used for an electric fence.  I'm not sure how necessary this is.  It's just the anal part of me coming out.  You might also put a ring connecter on the other end of the ground wire and connect it to the middle screw of the closest wall socket plate.  That really is a good question for a licensed electrician.

Now we have a connection, and electricity, going from the panel to the controller.  It's now time to wire the charging side.  I set it up to charge anything with a cigarette lighter plug... like the Xantrex xPower 1500.  You can also set up a bank of batteries, wired in series or parallel.

I found a splitter (1 male to 2 females) at an auto parts store.  After cutting off one of the female ends, leaving a couple inches of wire, I used crimp butt connectors to attach it to some of the red/black wire left over from the solar kit.  Then, I attached the red/black wire to the controler with two more crimp ring connectors and electrical tape for strength.

You can now connect the male cigarette lighter plug, from the Xantrex, to the female plug connected to the controller.  After about eight hours of charging, on a sunny day, you can unplug the Xantrex and roll it anywhere in you home.  The AGM sealed battery is safe to use in any living space... no fumes.

You can also connect any battery backup device that can be recharged from a vehicle.  I found two smaller battery backups on sale at BJs and Target.  You can usually find 10-20 amp-hour portable power devices in the auto section of most dept. stores.  Just make sure they can be DC or car charged.

Please feel free to ask me any questions.

Jay

P.S.  I always forget one little detail... the polarity of the cigarette plug is negative along the side (barrel part) and positive in the center tip.



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 05 2006 at 10:38pm
That's very thoughtfull of you to do all that.


Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 06 2006 at 9:13am

Thanks Rick,

It's much easier for me to do, than explain.



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: C104
Date Posted: February 06 2006 at 2:20pm
Spoon, Good stuff. One recomndation I could make is to put your charge controller and Xantrex out in the shed, then use the drop cord for your 110 power. DC has a higher line loss than AC. You will find you charge the Xantrex battery pack faster with it out in the shed, using the shortest distance for the DC wiring. You might also go with a bigger DC wire down from the panel to the charge controller and agian from the cc to the battery pack/inverter. Whatever line came with it...Double it (in size, half it in gage #).

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I will not obsess
I will not obsess
I will not obsess


Posted By: duncan
Date Posted: February 06 2006 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by C104 C104 wrote:

Spoon, Good stuff. One recomndation I could make is to put your charge controller and Xantrex out in the shed, then use the drop cord for your 110 power. DC has a higher line loss than AC.


Agreed

If you can - purchase a regulator that will do 12/24/48 volts. 24v systems are more efficient than 12v and you offer yourself some flexibility.

Invertors ideally should be pure sine wave as opposed to square (alot of equipment can`t abide dirty power) - with 1500w a minimum.

Solar energy is very much a balance. Monster batteries are useless - if they can`t be charged.


Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 06 2006 at 4:33pm

Welcome C104,

I agree.  The shorter the cable, the better.  As you can see, the design easily adapts by plugging the gray cords together up in the shed.  The orange extension cord helps if you want to limit your outside exposure... if things go horribly wrong.



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: pola33193
Date Posted: February 06 2006 at 4:49pm
Spoon, polas husband joe,  next  to my office there is a county school surplus, about 1 month ago i walked in and saw UPS for large computer servers most said no batteries and no charger, i think i only need the inverter batteries... you can get deep cycle any where and charge with solar panels

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pola


Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 06 2006 at 5:13pm

Hi Joe,

I'm not sure what the benefit would be if there's no battery or charger.  If they have a complete UPS cheap, it might be worth picking up although the batteries are probably at the end of their life.  And I don't believe there's an easy way to charge a UPS from a solar panel. 



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: duncan
Date Posted: February 06 2006 at 5:37pm
Most UPS units cannot be used as cheap alternatives to inverters because they cannot be powered on once thay are depleted without an AC supply.

Once thay go dead - they stay dead regardless of battery charge.

However - some modern UPS units have external DC inputs (usually 24v) and can be switched on so long as the battries are charged.


Posted By: elbows
Date Posted: February 06 2006 at 7:04pm
Are solar panels a potential looting target due to their high visibility?

I wouldnt expect to get particularily good results trying to use solar & batteries for applications such as cooking, heating, refrigeration. Will be more useful for lighting (get low energy bulbs, fluorescent or LED lights), radio etc.

Still I am in the UK where we dont get an awful lot of sun, so that probably makes me a bit pescimistic about this stuff. Im looking at a mixed solution such as gas for cooking/heating, wind up torches & radios, and converting a bicycle to provide pedal power for powering laptop etc (though I predict the chances of having a functioning internet connection if the electricity situation gets bad to be a bit on the low side, and most governments have legislation they can use to switch off the net in the event of civil unrest)


Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 06 2006 at 7:07pm

Thanks Cupcakemom.

I'm happy that I can contribute after all the help this community has given me.

This truly is a special place.

Jay



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 06 2006 at 7:14pm

Elbows,

I'm lucky that my shed faces south, and my house.  It really can only be seen if someone walks into my side yard.  Another option is to mount it high.

I only plan to power my wood stove fans, satellite radio (if it works), 2-meter transceiver, several rechargable lights, mobile phone and some high-efficient flourescent bulbs... and maybe a small emergency B/W TV from time to time.



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: C104
Date Posted: February 06 2006 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by Spoon Spoon wrote:

Welcome C104,

Thanks

Originally posted by Spoon Spoon wrote:

I agree.  The shorter the cable, the better.  As you can see, the design easily adapts by plugging the gray cords together up in the shed.

I did see that, great idea with the cords.


Originally posted by Spoon Spoon wrote:

The orange extension cord helps if you want to limit your outside exposure... if things go horribly wrong.



Without trying to hijack and go off in another direction completely...

If you can't go out in your own yard...you've got bigger problems than no power...



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I will not obsess
I will not obsess
I will not obsess


Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 07 2006 at 6:22am

Originally posted by C104 C104 wrote:


If you can't go out in your own yard...you've got bigger problems than no power...

True... we will all have bigger problems then.



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: merrittjohn
Date Posted: February 07 2006 at 6:54am
Here's my two cents worth about solar energy.  Forget heating or cooking with it.  So much energy is used you would have to spend a fortune in panels.  An small airtight wood stove and a couple cords of wood will cover both heating and cooking at a fraction of the cost.  Lighting.... more reasonable, but a few kerosene lamps and a couple 5 gallon jugs of kerosene will me much more economical.  On my sailboat I had a solar panel array that provided enough power for a tiny (1 1/2 cubic foot) very well insulated 12v refrigerator, my ham and VHF radio and two 12v florescent lights.  I used four 6v golf cart batteries (2 in series) isolated from each other by a Perko switch.   I plan a different type of solar system.  I'm building a small solar oven using a frenel lens and a simple solar water heater ( an insulated, glass topped box big enough to hold a 5 gallon plastic jerry jug painted black) to heat water for bathing.  These are some simple cheap (except for the fresnel lens.. and there are much cheaper ways of building a solar oven!) weekend projects that anyone can handle.  Emphasis on cheap.  For those of us on a pretty tight budget I feel the money is better spant on food. JMHO, John.

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willtolive


Posted By: merrittjohn
Date Posted: February 07 2006 at 7:03am
Hey Spoon,  that was nice of you to post all those pics.  I too want to emphasize to you that your line loss will be MUCH MUCH less if you convert to higher voltage close to the panel (perhaps you could bolt the inverter to the underside of the roof or to a rafter) and then run your power to the house. John.

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willtolive


Posted By: larrylinux
Date Posted: February 07 2006 at 7:24am
Spoon,

You mentioned Costcos as a source for some of the hardware; does anyone know if Sams carries any solar equipment?

LL

ps - this is something we have been talking about doing for a long time; thanks to spoon and all the others for all the great info!


Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 07 2006 at 8:06am

John,

What's the best way to measure line loss, with and without orange extension cord?  Ohms?



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 11 2006 at 9:16am

Regarding the instructions, above, for putting together a basic solar power setup.

It' back at Costco.com, http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11003871&whse=&topnav=&browse=&s=1 - 123W Charging Kit with Sharp Panel  for $699.  If you're interested, I wouldn't wait long.  These kits seem to disappear quickly.



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: sweets
Date Posted: February 19 2006 at 2:10pm

Ok thanks all really great!

Now newbie here what can I power with a 8" by 24" panel?

I am trying to generate enough power for a fan for cooling and charging batteries for laptop gameboy cell phone

Also I will be in HK on 220 

I think I will need to figure this out then ship the items over there

This is my first time go easy lololol



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I'm not a ribbering Jidiot!
www.exaltedshrimp.com


Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 19 2006 at 4:30pm

Hi Sweets,

Can you give me the specs on your solar panel (watts, amps)?



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: sweets
Date Posted: February 20 2006 at 8:38am

Well I saw you can get one that size 16 volts  115 volt 140 watt inverter

He says"Power your computer, modem, vcr, tv, cameras, lights, or DC appliances anywhere you go. "



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I'm not a ribbering Jidiot!
www.exaltedshrimp.com


Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 20 2006 at 7:07pm

Do you have a link I can check out?

I just want to make sure you have enough amps coming off the panel and enough amp hours stored in the battery.



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 21 2006 at 8:17pm

I was thinking of disguising the solar panels to look like skylights by putting them on my roof and putting in a box structure or hiding them on my shed and covering the roof with a black tarp so it looks like a cheap roof fix.

A bad renovation to me would be believable especially by me

It worries me that yours look too easy to steal.  arer they visible from other peoples yards



Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: February 22 2006 at 6:58am

Originally posted by RBARNES55 RBARNES55 wrote:

I was thinking of disguising the solar panels to look like skylights by putting them on my roof and putting in a box structure

Great idea!

Luckily my shed faces the house so you cannot see it unless you walk through my side yard, between shed and house. 

Not a safe place to be... uninvited Wink



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: TomMI
Date Posted: February 28 2006 at 10:05am

I have a 1 kilowatt solar array on my house which generates around 60 amps of power on a cloudless day. Anyone with specific questions about how to do this and power much of your home, feel free to ask. I'ts not that difficult, once you understand the relationships between panels, batteries and inverters and the laws that govern battery charging and discharging.

 

 

 



Posted By: striper
Date Posted: March 08 2006 at 5:38pm

Ordered the Xantrex XPower 1500 today. Searching for the solar panel now. My house faces south and there is plenty of sun in my backyard through out the day. I am not sure of I am going to put the solar panel on the roof though.

Costco doesn't have any of the high watt solar panels. Any others I should check? Thanks.



Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: March 10 2006 at 10:50am

striper,

Here's another place I was checking out, before I made the Costco purchase.

http://www.altersystems.com/catalog/index.php - http://www.altersystems.com/catalog/index.php



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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: DragonRider
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 1:56pm
Spoon, I am ordering a Xantrex today to help supplement my generator.  Who makes your charge controller?  I am going to have to get 2 smaller panels, 1 now and 1 later.  Any other sites you used for reference would be great.

Thanks

John


Posted By: Spoon
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 5:13pm
John,
 
Morningstar makes a good line of controllers.
 
http://www.altersystems.com/catalog/charge-controllers-morningstar-controllers-c-31_34.html?page=1&sort=3a - http://www.altersystems.com/catalog/charge-controllers-morningstar-controllers-c-31_34.html?page=1&sort=3a
 
Please feel free to ask me any questions.  You can also PM as well.
 
Good luck,
Jay
 
 


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It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 03 2006 at 12:21am
Based on my research, it appears I can do the following to ensure a renewable (albeit limited) supply of power from solar energy:
 
Get a couple of high capacity AGM 12v batteries;
inverters to convert the power from those batteries to AC;
one or two solar panels to connect to those batteries.  I am thinking about installing these INSIDE our skylight (to avoid theft issues).
 
Am I missing anything here?
 
Thanks, Bumpman


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 03 2006 at 6:32am
Spoon,
 
Any thoughts if a sharp 80 watt solar panel would work with the xantrex 1500?  It has nominal volatage at 12V and 4.67 peak Amps.  The reason I'm asking is these panels can be found for around $390.


Posted By: 40acrediesel
Date Posted: April 03 2006 at 10:44am
Spoon, the orange extension cord you are using is typically a 14 or 16 gauge model-  For good electrical safety, the splice at the shed should be inside some kind of junction box.  Also, I do not see any overcurrent protection located at the panel end.  Therefore you are running 75 to 100' without any overcurrent protection on the wire.   Your ground wire is 14 gauge, which is very small for running the distance from the shed to the electrode, going inside & then back outside.  One thing to remember, is that you must protect the system from potential lightning strikes since this is a roof mounted device.  Article 690 or the 2005 Electrical Code goes into detail of Photovoltaic Systems wiring


Posted By: TomMI
Date Posted: April 04 2006 at 5:34am
Lightning "loves" aluminum especially if its on you're roof and ungrounded!!  Better put in a ground fault interrupter as well. Also, My advice is to put a class T fuse (sized appropriately) between the battery bank and the inverter. Also, you need at least one breaker on the positive side coming in from the panel to offer overcurrent protection AND as a means to "disconnect" the panels from the regulator.


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A sensible man watches for problems ahead and prepares to meet them. The simpleton never looks and suffers the consequences.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 05 2006 at 4:28am
Would I be better of with a solar battery recharge system (xantrex 1500 with sharp panel) or should I just buy a generator/xantrex combo (with lots of gas stored)?
 
Anyone with a thought?


Posted By: TomMI
Date Posted: April 05 2006 at 6:22am
Generator good but should run at minimimum 80% balanced load meaning equal usage on both legs of 220 circuit. Generators dont like unbalanced loads and are inefficient at less than 80% load. If you do this, also buy spare parts, and have oil for changes. Only one solar panel wont get you very far, believe me, and a 1500 (is that peak or running wattage?) watt inverter will consume 125 amps at 12 volts. If your panel is 80 watt or about 4.7 amps, it will take about 30 or more hours to recharge your battery. (providing consistently sunny days of 5 hours each)

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A sensible man watches for problems ahead and prepares to meet them. The simpleton never looks and suffers the consequences.


Posted By: prepmeister
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 10:56am
Does anyone have a recommendation on a solar powered battery charger for batteries such as AA's , AAA's, C's and D's?  Please tell me where you bought it as well.


Posted By: 2ifbyC
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by prepmeister prepmeister wrote:

Does anyone have a recommendation on a solar powered battery charger for batteries such as AA's , AAA's, C's and D's?  Please tell me where you bought it as well.
 
Here's mine: http://www.realgoods.com/shop/shop2.cfm?dv=2&dp=210&ts=4170298&kw=charger - http://www.realgoods.com/shop/shop2.cfm?dv=2&dp=210&ts=4170298&kw=charger  .


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Survival does have an 'I'!

Dodging 'canes on Florida's central Gulf Coast


Posted By: Mississipp Mama
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 9:05pm
Hi 2ifbyc,I bought my solar powered battery charger from Nitro-Pak  1-800-866-4876.  I think it was $23.95.  It should be arriving in 3-5 days.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 5:12am
http://solarcooking.org/

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/radabaugh30.html

http://journeytoforever.org/sc_link.html

These site should get you up to speed.


Posted By: prepmeister
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 7:36am
2ifbyC,
 
Does your battery charger work with nickel metal hydride (nimh) batteries?  I read the description and it looks like it was designed for nickel cadmium batteries, which are starting to be hard to find.  My local walmart only has nimh batteries now (they hold a longer charge and do not develop a memory)  Can you tell me if it does work with nimh batteries and how long would it take to charge them?


Posted By: 2ifbyC
Date Posted: April 13 2006 at 8:12am
prepmeister,
 
That unit is for NiCads. It is not a rapid charger. So you can charge NiMH batts but they MAY not reach full charge. I have yet to receive the unit  to test the NiMHs for charge/run times.
 
Being in sunny Florida I can live with partially charged NiMH batts since many of my DC devices are very low powered. It would have been nice to standardize with one type of batt, but I had a good supply of both.
 
I also have an AC NiMH charger that will be plugged into one of my inverters if need be. I have three gel type 12 VDC batts that will last me a very long time for recharging NiCAD and NiMH AA/AAAs.


-------------
Survival does have an 'I'!

Dodging 'canes on Florida's central Gulf Coast


Posted By: 2ifbyC
Date Posted: April 15 2006 at 6:55am
Alriiighteee, great news! I just received the above solar charger (  http://www.realgoods.com/shop/shop2.cfm?dv=2&dp=210&ts=4170298&kw=charger - http://www.realgoods.com/shop/shop2.cfm?dv=2&dp=210&ts=4170298&kw=charger )  and it's good for Ni-Cd AND Ni-MH batteries, AAA/AA/C/D. I purchased it for my Ni-Cds but now I'm 'good to go' for my 2300 Ni-MH also!

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Survival does have an 'I'!

Dodging 'canes on Florida's central Gulf Coast


Posted By: prepmeister
Date Posted: April 15 2006 at 12:11pm
Thanks for confiming this that it works for Ni-MH as well.  I'll now order mine! 


Posted By: tazman
Date Posted: April 15 2006 at 3:03pm
which type of battery has the memory? is it the Ni-cd or the Ni-MH?

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Email me your favorite links: mailto:help@resistbirdflu.com - My Email


Posted By: 2ifbyC
Date Posted: April 15 2006 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by tazman tazman wrote:

which type of battery has the memory? is it the Ni-cd or the Ni-MH?
 
Older NiCds were known for memory. Todays NiCds do not suffer the same malady. A deep discharge and a  proper recharge should take care of older batts.
 
NiMHs do not have memory. 
 
ETA The deeper the discharge the better for both types.


-------------
Survival does have an 'I'!

Dodging 'canes on Florida's central Gulf Coast


Posted By: Col Sanders
Date Posted: April 17 2006 at 1:48pm
2ifbyC, have you had a chance to try out your recharger yet? I'm slowly researching rechargers. Don't know much about 'em. But I'm guessing the solar chargers take a long time to juice up a 2300 mAh battery.


Posted By: 2ifbyC
Date Posted: April 17 2006 at 2:14pm
Col Sanders,
 
I do not have any 2300s that need a recharge. So I just turned on a double 2300 AA three LED Hi-intensity flashlight to run the batts down. I'll let ya'll know the recharge time when I get 'em hot again. I'm sure it won't be a quickie charge. This will also give me a run time for this particular flashlight configuration.
 
This reminds me that I probably should start a thread on LED flashlights. There are soooo many configurations and modifications available. If ya'll want to get the jump on me, go to http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/index.php - http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/index.php ? . Watch out though, it can become addictive!
 
Thanks for the charger prompt and flashlight thread reminder! Clap


-------------
Survival does have an 'I'!

Dodging 'canes on Florida's central Gulf Coast


Posted By: 2ifbyC
Date Posted: April 18 2006 at 9:56am
OK, for you flashlight freaks and future freaks here ya go: "These are not your Father’s flashlights!" http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6560 - http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6560 . Thumbs Up

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Survival does have an 'I'!

Dodging 'canes on Florida's central Gulf Coast


Posted By: GreenTeam
Date Posted: July 28 2006 at 1:35pm
I am interested in having some kind of solar backup system, like a portable solar generator. I have found numerous web sites selling the equipment, but none of these sites tells me the basics of how these things work!
 
Can someone here tell me, or direct me to info about, how a small backup solar system like a portable generator would work? For example, what do you plug it into? Does it provide electricity to your whole house or do you plug an appliance into it? I just don't know the basics. Thank you!


Posted By: VtDoc
Date Posted: July 29 2006 at 11:50am
Here's a link to a publication that just had 2 articles about solar power in the last 2 issues, as well as stuff in older issues.
 
http://www.backwoodshome.com/article_index.html - http://www.backwoodshome.com/article_index.html http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/yago100.html -
 
Go down to the "Energy" section. 
 
(They also have a lot of other good articles available for free.  You can browse through old issues by this link:  http://www.backwoodshome.com/previssue.html - http://www.backwoodshome.com/previssue.html .   Speaking as a recent new subscriber, I think this is a great publication.)
 


Posted By: GreenTeam
Date Posted: August 04 2006 at 6:28pm
Thank you for the info, VtDoc! I appreciate it.
 
I think our budget right now calls for trying a foldable solar battery charger that will work for laptops, cell phones, and batteries. I think we can survive without the fridge and stove for a while. But I'd hate to be cut off from the rest of the world with no web access, so the laptop is a top priority!


Posted By: maryanne
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 8:32pm
I bought a solar generator that is dual you can charge it from the wall and run it  continusly  while charging it from solar panels , 
 
I have three panels and one day will take it out of the box and figure it out. 


Posted By: GreenTeam
Date Posted: August 05 2006 at 8:34pm
maryanne, how much did it cost, if you don't mind me asking? The one solar generator I was looking at was around $800. How would you use yours? Will you be able to plug your fridge into it? What other appliances?


Posted By: candice
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 11:45pm
Does anyone use solar now, even just subliminting their usuage.   I was thinking of buy one to run lapstop and and lights.  

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If you cant get in the front door try the side door then the back door.


Posted By: fab4
Date Posted: April 23 2008 at 10:15am

Hi all - due to cost considerations and lack of techie know how I'm kind of piecemealing it... e.g., I have a small portable solar thingy that recharges my small electronics and computer, some solar lamps, a solar oven.  I'll probably make a solar water heater out of some black tubing (that doesn't involve any wiring LOL)

Anyway, I want to be able to have some air flow and vent a sick room.   But I'm limited on what kind of system to get (for cost reasons)  I did see this, what do you guys think?  http://www.greenhome.com/products/appliances/solar_power/fan000001 - http://www.greenhome.com/products/appliances/solar_power/fan000001


Posted By: Lone Wolf
Date Posted: July 06 2008 at 10:08am
,


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: July 06 2008 at 10:54am
Thanks for taking the time to post that, Lone Wolf  Thumbs%20Up 

-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: Lone Wolf
Date Posted: July 06 2008 at 5:00pm
,


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: July 07 2008 at 12:49pm
Very true.

-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: Lone Wolf
Date Posted: July 09 2008 at 8:35pm
,


Posted By: Lone Wolf
Date Posted: July 12 2008 at 12:27pm
,


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 13 2008 at 8:46am
Originally posted by Lone Wolf Lone Wolf wrote:

http://www.supermediastore.com/kilwateldet1.html - http://www.supermediastore.com/kilwateldet1.html
Kill A Watt P4400 - P3 International Electricity Usage Monitor (Free Ground Shipping) javascript:open_window%28/lib/supermediastore/free-ground-ship-popup-info.html,toolbar=0,location=0,directories=0,status=0,menubar=0,scrollbars=no,resizable=no,width=620,height=550%29 - Kill-A-Watt, the Electricity Detector and Electricity Monitor.  It's on sale for $18.82 with free shipping.
Has the Kill-A-Watt monitor been useful. I did not order. Would like to know first if it is worth the additional cost. Thanks Annie.
I waited too long, the cost today off your link is:
Your Order
  Item Cost
1 Kill A Watt
P4400 - P3
International
Electricity
Usage Monitor
 $15.99
Subtotal: $15.99
Shipping: $10.08
Tax: $0.00
Total: $26.07


Posted By: Lone Wolf
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 6:13am
,


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 12:30pm
Thanks for the quick answer Lone Wolf, I just completed my order. I appreciated you pointing out the differences in wattage for different appliances and pointing out age makes a difference. I'll let you know what I learn. Thanks for your help. Annie


Posted By: sean mcnulty
Date Posted: December 29 2008 at 4:16pm
Hi there,
I would be very interested in seeing your set up, I have 24 120watt panels and a 3klw inverter, this system came from a stand alone set up with generator back up, I would like to use this system on my house but with out the generator backup, could you tell me how many batteries I might need and whether it should be a 12 or 48 volt system for a typical house hold,( no heating or A/C), also can you tell me more about switching between solar and the grid, I would appreciate any information you can give me, thanks mate,
   Sean Mcnulty


Posted By: Lone Wolf
Date Posted: January 01 2009 at 12:05pm

'



Posted By: sean mcnulty
Date Posted: January 01 2009 at 9:15pm
Thanks for the reply,
              I hope everything went well with the operation and that the bills aren't too big,
I wish you a better year than last,
              Sean Mcnulty.


Posted By: SusanT
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 2:49pm
Just wondering if anyone out there has seen or bought the book from "homemadeenergy.org". It sounds too good to be true: made your own solar panels for under $200? Any thoughts? I thinking about trying it.


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 5:43pm
   I did a quick internet search because that sounded like an awesome deal, but a lot of the references don't seem to be very impartial. I found one site where a contributor had bought the book and had this to say about the information given on how to make $200 solar panels;
 "As an example, the way you build a PV system for $200 is to locate damaged panels on e-bay and assemble them on a piece of plywood." Hmmm.
 You can read the whole thing here -
 
      http://www.chrismartenson.com/forum/homemadeenergyorg-ad-legit/12041 - http://www.chrismartenson.com/forum/homemadeenergyorg-ad-legit/12041


-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: Jessica
Date Posted: July 15 2009 at 11:57pm
Solar energy is harvested from the rays of the sun and captured by sun collectors and modules designed to convert solar energy into heat and electricity. Solar thermal technologies offer heating and cooling systems, and photovoltaic technologies convert light to electricity. Both are considered to be of high potential to the renewable energy industry.

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http://www.creatingnrg.com - Green Networking


Posted By: edprof
Date Posted: October 11 2017 at 12:18pm
Hi from someone who did a whole house solar generator setup plus a portable 750 watt "portable" one plus a small 200 watt one.  Spoon got it right.  Let me just add a few experiences.

We bought a 6000 watt, 24 panel system in summer of 2015.  Half (12) of the panels are on a ground mount facing 160 degrees to catch some morning sunshine, half are on a southwestern facing roof.  Any large-scale solar installation is going to have some compromises and our compromise was to have a useful amount of electricity longer during the day instead of having a really large looking number of watts for only a few minutes during solar noon. 

Our installers had some software that helped them arrive at this southeastern/southwestern compromise.  In terms of kilowatts per day on the average, this arrangement will give us about 2 kw hours more electricity per day than a totally south-facing system.

We wanted long-term, quiet, replenishable electric power over a long haul if we ever had a total regional or national grid failure.  So we included a battery bank of eight 12-volt AGM batteries.  This not only gives storage for night times or shady days, it also means that we don't lose our electric backup when the grid goes down.  No batteries and the panels would have nowhere to send the electricity except back into the grid --- which could kill a lineman.

As an overall average high figure for output, we will see around 4500 watts between 11 am and 3 pm.  About 3000 from 10 to 11 and again from 3 to 4 in the afternoon.  Due to no southern facing panels, plus we are 35 degrees north of the equator, we will never see 6,000.  But you can do a lot with 3,000 watts.  It's surprising how much you can do around home with the 2,000 that we usually get from 9 to 10 in the morning and 4 to 5 in the afternoon. 

We extended our generating capacity some more. We bought a Generac 11,000 watt propane-powered generator and a 500 gallon tank.  This generator is set to come on with the batteries fall to 40 percent and will run automatically until the AGMs are back up to 80 percent.  We can manually run the Generac anytime we want to. 

As if that weren't enough, we bought a Troy-Bilt 7000 watt gasoline generator and had a plug-in installed on an outside wall so that we would have another layer of protection against power loss.  Face it, folks, electricity is the coin of the realm  these days, and it is not a good idea to be caught without it.  No, we do not have anyone living at home who has to have a C-pap machine or other life-sustaining equipment.  We had the money ($31,000) at the point of my retirement and had some interest in this as a hobby.   Some people buy sailboats and some of us buy back up power generators.

We didn't buy the solar part with the idea of making or saving lots of money.  But our electric bills have dropped by about 75%.  The Generac and Troy-Bilt, though, are not viable ways of saving money on the electric bill.  They exist to get us through a bind if solar isn't making the grade.

We sometimes get the "break-even question" from the sharp-pencil guys.,  We should break even on the solar part of the investment around 9 years.  Nine years! they scream! And then I ask when, if they just keep paying their light bills, they will own their own power company.  That's usually when the screaming stops.  You can pay the utility company forever and they well never want you to stop sending money.

What if the grid went away and never came back?  We would not have the amount of air conditioning to which we have become accustomed.  But we would have enough power to live on for the rest of our lives.  In careful degrees, we can share with our neighbors (not extension cords).

The 750 watt solar generator is not connected in any way to the 6000 watt house one.  The main unit is on a cart and there are three 255 watt panels, mounted like easils.  We have a bug out location about 40 miles away and this would give us at least some power to take there if we needed to.  750 still beats nothing by a very long shot.  3 panels, charge controller, 4 AGM batteries, 2000 watt inverter.  100 foot long cords from panels to central unit give us a lot of flexibility for placing the panels.

The third solar generator is nearly a toy by comparison.  Two one hundred watt panels, a charge controller, one AGM battery, a 750 watt inverter.  This is for a storm shelter which has a 2 meter hamd radio, CB radio, and some down-to-the-bitter-end emergency supplies. You notice, though, that all three systems have some common kinds of components.





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Oftentimes the Lord helps those who help themselves.


Posted By: edprof
Date Posted: August 15 2018 at 8:01am
It's been three years since we bought and installed the setup mentioned above. Here are our reflections about it.

For most intents and purposes, we just don't have power failures at our house. The utiity company may fail, but we don't have power outages. It is rare for me to re-set a coffee maker, microwave, or clock radio.

We are happy with all of our equipment. But in 20-20 hindsight, knowing what we now know, we could have done without the 11 kW whole-home generator. The legitimate usage of it has been so slight that we could have covered it with a large but portable gasoline generator like a TroyBilt 7000 watt or a Generac 8000E. We could have saved $5,000 that way.

The battery backup has been more robust and more dependable than we had thought three years ago. The batteries, with or without support from the solar panels, are taking care of most outages.

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Oftentimes the Lord helps those who help themselves.



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