Gun questions
Printed From: Avian Flu Talk
Category: Pandemic Prepping Forums
Forum Name: Home Protection
Forum Description: (Home and self protection)
URL: http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15197
Printed Date: April 16 2024 at 1:02pm
Topic: Gun questions
Posted By: Guests
Subject: Gun questions
Date Posted: February 15 2007 at 6:47am
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Ok folks, i've got two questions for ya:
First one: I'm in the market for a dependable .22, something i can shoot either .22LR or .22 Mag out of, and preferably both. There are just too many brands out there and I'd like some insights into them.
I have a .22LR/.22Mag revolver, but it's damned difficult to find parts for cause it hasn't been manufactured for quite a while.
2nd question: Some years ago (like maybe 2000 or 2001) at a gun show in Ft. Worth, i saw what i can best describe as a derringer. It was small, and had a break open type action. Three barrels, two for 410 and one for .45. Anyone know what type of gun this is? I'm thinking something or home defense that even my mom could use in an emergency...She don't care for guns at all, but I think i'd feel safer when I travel out of town knowing that she would have access to something like that. A gun that's straightforward to load and shoot. Odds are, because it only had something like a 2 or 3 inch barrel that the range for really suck, but i can't think of anything else along these lines.
Anyone know what gun I'm talking about?
In reference to my 1st question, I had an AMT automag some years ago, but sold it. It was a pain in the neck to load and the slide always gave me problems.
Suggestions?
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Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 6:42pm
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Fiction, The only 22lr / 22mag combo I know of the the Ruger single six. It comes with 2 cylinders, 1 for each cartridge. It is a western style single action pistol. There has been a lot of action in the "cowboy" gun market lately, so a couple other manufactures may be doing the same thing now. I don't know. I won the Ruger, I'm very happy with it.
I don't know of any rifle that chambers both calibers. A 3 barrel derringer?? I've never seen one. I've seen 1,2,and 4 barrel derringers, but not a 3 barrel one. That said most 45 colt derringers can also shoot a 2 1/2" .410. Thanks to Cowboy Action Shooting events there are several companies making these pistols. Check out a "Gun List" paper, or a Cowboy Action shooting magazine. I should point out that all of these pistol are single action, that requires the hammer to be cocked for each shot. Are you sure you Mom can handle that much of a load from such a small gun? If it was my Mom I would give her a simple 38spl revolver. But you do what you think is best. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 16 2007 at 11:36pm
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Well, like I said, 'derringer' is probably the wrong word. And it was about five yrs ago, so my memory is probably off, but i'll continue to look for it at any future gun shows.
Mom is a pretty strong woman. But she doesn't like guns. I was just trying to find something that would be lightweight, fairly easy to shoot, and yet have enough 'firepower' to either scare the **** outta someone, or do enough damage to make them think twice, hence the interest in a gun that loads both the 410 and 45 simultaneously.
Then again, she knows where I keep the 22, and where the shotshells are for it.
I'll take a look at that Ruger you mentioned. I'd prefer a semi-auto, but if i want it to fire both LR and Mag, then I'll have to compromise...
Thanks for the info!
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 17 2007 at 9:38pm
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Fiction strong doesn't have much to do with it. I'm no wuss, and I don't like shooting the 410 out of those small guns.
Also they make "shot" shells for most pistol calibers. I have them in 22, 22mag, 38, and 9mm. They work OK on snakes, but I wouldn't trust them for self defense. Just my 2 cents. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 17 2007 at 11:32pm
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Again, thanks for the info.
After some thought on the issue, i put together a search string for yahoo and found the gun i had seen at that show...or at least a variant of it. Cobray, Leinad, and FMJ all made one, and the Leinad and FMJ are the closest to what i saw. An over/under arrangement, in .45LC and 410, for about $100...but one of the guns i came across when the query included 'derringer' in the string, brought me to something called a Thunder 5, which was a 'derringer' with a 5-shot cylinder...so more of a revolver than anything else.
Snakes, yeah, that's what i had in mind for the .22 shotshells. I did not mean to imply for self defense against the two-legged critter types.
And after looking over the FMJ and leinad handguns, i'm thinking about it for me instead...to keep in the truck for those long jobs i do...the jobs where having a gun, even a two shot one, might make me feel just a little bit better and safer...lotta jobs lateley that have taken me out in to the brushy areas...
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 18 2007 at 7:00am
| FictionWriter why dont you get your mom a 22 rifle thats got a 10 round clip?They are easy to shoot,load ect.If I couldnt kill what ever I wanted to with 10 rounds Id give up.Ive had mine since I was 5 and its old the sites are off most people couldnt hit the broad side of a barn with it but its like my right arm I dont even use the sites.Ive never cared for pistols of any kind.I shoot my sons 20 ga shotgun but boy it kicks like a mule. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 18 2007 at 2:25pm
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Have both the .22 rifle and the 20 ga shotgun.
Talked to her last night about what I was looking for...and she vetoed the idea, rather harshly too. In her words, 'live by the gun, and die by the gun, and she wasn't ready to die just yet. So, if the starving hordes come to our door, I asked her, are you going to feed them our stash?
These days, i get the chance to do that about once or twice a week. Illegals, begging for change. If they see you out in your yard, they hit you up for money for food. And when the pandemic hits, they'll try the same tactic, and it'll be a warning shot or two, before the next is center mass.
I hate to sound so, uhm, harsh, but i'm pretty sure the rest of us here are thinking along these lines. Only reason i wanted to arm mom, is that it's just her and I here. And unfortunately, i can't seem to pull those allnighters like I did in college. At some point i will have to let my guard down and sleep, and that when i'll be the most scared.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 19 2007 at 6:18pm
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I don't know what to tell you. Is this a SP indoctrination, guns are evil thing? If it is not, I can only hope that when the chips are down she will understand the need for self defense.
Of course you can always tell her that since she doesn't want a gun, she has to become a black belt.  
I wish you luck on your dilemma. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 19 2007 at 11:21pm
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Not sure what 'SP Indoctrination' is. And i'm hopeful that if push comes to shove, she'll pick up a gun.
hmmm, an 84 yr old black belt...i wonder
 Thanks for the luck tho...gonna need a lot of thought on this one.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 20 2007 at 9:59am
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SP secular progressive, the common politically correct term for communist these days.
I regularly suggest a firearm safety course for non-gun people. The reasoning is that EVERYBODY should be able to make a firearm safe. A little knowledge goes a long way to eliminating ones fear. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 20 2007 at 3:15pm
| Wolfgang, I"ve read some of your reports and you seem to posses a rare thing ... common sence. I"ve handled guns since the age of 8. Took my 22 to school with me. I guesw that comment tells my age. One comment i hav'ent seen posterd about guns is a proper mind set. A oerson can be taught to safely handle a weopon and even become a good shot. Its another thibg for most people to pull the triger on someone even in a desperate situation. Even with military training , it sometimes takes a taste of xxxxx before you respond. For all those who have to use a weopon in self defence, don't try to talk an antagonist to death . Don't count on a weopon unless you realy mean to use it. Pray God, you never have to. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 20 2007 at 4:49pm
Oh. ok. Had never heard the term before. But as far as gun safety goes, she does know how to use one. My dad taught her that years ago. He even took her hunting once...but she never could get over the idea of shooting bambi...I see bambi and see venison 
Mindset. I had a good friend of mine, some years ago, explain it this way. He was very familiar with guns. He'd served in the army in Angola (he was Cuban). He said he probably fired off thousands of rounds in the jungle, never knowing if he hit anyone. When he came to the states, he had a handgun for protection. Some guy tried to rob him and his wife, so he warned him 'I have a gun and I'm not afraid to use it'. He told me that the witnesses to the event told the cops he rpeated that 3 or 4 times, even as the would be assailant got closer to him and his wife. Then he shot. Up close and personal.
He knew how to use a gun, had been trained to kill with one, yet he was so afraid of the consequences, that his shot was low...but it had the desired effect, shattering the other man's knee.
He told me, that in that split second before he pulled the trigger, that a million things can go through your mind. But it all comes down to, what are you willing to do to protect the ones you love.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 20 2007 at 8:48pm
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Fiction I agree with you. I belong to PETA. People for the Eating of Tasty Animals. I actually have the tee shirt. A little bit of advise. Don't wear that tee shirt to a cattle auction. Those cowboys get real upset till you get them to read the fine print. Some people just don't have a sense of humor.
Mindset.... Anybody that has taken psych 101 can tell you about fight or flight. Very few can tell you about kill or be killed. I'm afraid no one can describe it to you. But once you cross it the world is different. The importance of certain "things" in life are different. It also gives you an advantage over someone that has never reached that line. Simply because you know where the line is. Fiction don't worry about Mom. If she has the basic's down she will be OK. Snuffie, well said. |
Posted By: Johnray1
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 11:23pm
| To all of those who own guns. Do not post how many and what kind of guns you own. Both bad guys and police are readind this and then both will know where to come to take your guns. All that is needed is a pump shotgun for each family member for home defense and plenty of ammo.Shotgun shells are big in size and can be used up very quickly so have many more than you think that you need. Maybe different sizes and different cal. for each family memeber and also plenty of training by a certified firearms instuctor. Do not tell you strenths to anyone because then they will know how to attack you. Johnray1 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 2:18am
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Good advice Johnray1!We have a family member that is an NRA certified instructor.I was informed that if you are an owner of a shotgun,one should load it like this.Shot shell etc.I have no compunction in defending my kith and kin, under any circumstances!I live in a semi rural area and I do not belive violence would be a problem,its' the "outsiders" coming into our community, that concerns me the most.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 5:00pm
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As for my original question, i found the gun I was looking for. Bond Arms in Texas makes it. .45 over a .410 (or was it .410 over a .45?)
Anyways, as a gun for snakes or other small varmints, i think it might have it's uses. Against a two-legged critter...i'd have to be a damned good shot
And be VERY lucky!
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Posted By: Johnray1
Date Posted: April 08 2007 at 3:30pm
| Anon 54,you are very lucky to have family memeber that is a certified NRA Instructor. Now you and your family need to go a shooting range with him either one at a time or all at a time{it should be his preference} and learn everything that he knows. Johnray1 |
Posted By: Johnray1
Date Posted: April 11 2007 at 12:18am
| Insomniac,get rid of the .22/.22mag. These guns are usually very poor. Get rid of the derringer,they are only made for shooting across tables or under tables,you do not need it and unless it is a very expensive derringer,it will be undependable. Get a 12 gauge pump shoot gun,I prefer Remington. These other 2 guns that are talking about will just get you into trouble or get you killed.Johnray1 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 11 2007 at 10:49pm
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Insomiac is a TROLL
He's trying to hijack my original post to spread his lies...
Where the heck is the report button?
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 11 2007 at 10:52pm
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Johnray1,
The .22/.22WMR is one gun...a revolver, that's an inherited gun...The quality, however, is excellent. I've enjoyed target shooting it for years...Don't have the derringer, and was originally asking about it as a 'last resort' sort of weapon...but i've pretty much talked myself out of it...if that's my last resort...i might as well just give up and die, eh?
Have the shotgun in question...as made by Ithaca...
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Posted By: randyb
Date Posted: May 10 2007 at 4:00am
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If someone is in the market for a .22 to purchase with the possiblity of using siad weapon for self defense, I would recommend in 22LR a semi-auto like the Ruger 10-22. Its accurate, dependable, and can fire 10 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger. The rifle is easier to shoot, and the ballistics are better than a pistol. In a .22 mag i would recommend a dependable semi-suto like the Marlin line for the same reason. The .22LR/.22Mag would not be my first choice for self defense, but in a survival situation the wieght oand cost of the ammunition makes it a viable alternative. In handguns the only combos I know of are the Ruger single six and the Heritage arms series. These are single action and slow to reload. I think that again a semi auto like th eBuckmarks or Mark II by ruger would be a good choice. |
Posted By: FictionWriter
Date Posted: May 10 2007 at 7:35am
| AMT makes a semi-auto pistol in .22 Mag. I've used it, and found it difficult to reload, until the action was well used. The revolver i was talking about pre-dates the Ruger and Hermitage series...we're talking late 40's maybe early 50's for Sauer and Sohn of west germany. Very tough to find parts. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 11 2007 at 3:28pm
Huh? I am a police officer and I *DO NOT* want your guns, nor am I ever going to even attempt to take them from you. I get more than my fair share of lead in my diet just from the shooting I do. I don't need a large dose of lead with the accompanying new breathing hole, thank you very much. Police aren't bad. People with anti authority problems are. You should worry more about your congressman reading this more than a police officer. |
Johnray1 wrote:Posted By: diego
Date Posted: September 28 2007 at 6:44pm
| most crooked politicians are to busy working on their latest scam or playing hide the salami with that hot young staffer. |
Posted By: johngardner1
Date Posted: September 28 2007 at 6:49pm
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Too bad that guest/police officer isn't one of our regular readers, I'd like to talk to him about police preps for pandemic. ------------- I am not a prophet |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 2:27pm
| That person is me John. |
Posted By: johngardner1
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 3:00pm
OH, ok. Tell me about what's going on in the force, anyone level headed enough to start pandemic planning? What do you propose to do in case of pandemic, are you authorized to fire on someone breaking quarantine? Will you be handing out emergency supplies? ------------- I am not a prophet |
Posted By: johngardner1
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 3:01pm
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One of my brothers was a plain clothes detective for the King County Police. He died a couple years ago from a brain tumor. He made good money, had a brand new house. I'm too old to join the force. ------------- I am not a prophet |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 01 2007 at 7:42pm
Usual. We're dealing with a bridge that fell down, and responding to the gunshot detectors that our thoughtful big brother installed around the city. I call it a prelude to cameras on every corner of the city, as it hasn't been responsible for a single arrest. Basically we're responding to where someone fired off a few rounds and walked off.
It's not really discussed at my level, but there's some smart people involved. Level headed? I dunno. Who's going to be level headed when facing a Pandemic.
I've already talked about what I'd do. As for shooting people breaking quarantine, not going to happen. I fully understand leaving an area that's infected, and being handled by the government, or being the enforcer of the handling does not appeal to me. I'd walk off if it came to that.
No. The government's stance is that they'll do what they can, but for the most part you're on your own. |
Posted By: johngardner1
Date Posted: October 01 2007 at 8:54pm
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Tell me about looting, has it been talked about? Going to shoot them? If they have no money cuz there are no businesses, what then? ------------- I am not a prophet |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 2:11pm
Again, not at my level. In the event of a major catastrophe I assume that they'd hand out M16's to us all and push us out under FEMA control to do whatever it is FEMA dictates.
God, I hope not. I hope it doesn't get to that point. I guess it really depends on how bad it really gets. If it's one of those End of The World scenarios I won't be a police officer anymore, will I? If some came to sack and loot my personal home/family etc, if they push the issue I'll shoot them. In an official status it would really depend on what was being looted, and whether it was a bad situation. If people are taking food because they're starving, hell no. If they're stealing big screen televisions and they react aggressively when told to stop, whatever force they decide to use, I'll reciprocate.
If they have no money and they're stealing food, water, etc from supermarkets only a heartless moron would shoot them. If it gets to the point where there's no businesses, no government, no nothing, I believe my employment has come to an end. I wouldn't don that uniform anymore. It's already like having a giant target on my back and there's no catastrophe underway. |
Posted By: johngardner1
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 3:27pm
Here's some survival information for you Turboguy. At your police station, do you know where they keep the cop car keys? Do you know what kind of firearms they keep in the trunk? Make sure you don't get into the back of the police car or you'll die there. Can you access the firearms they store in the station itself? Ammo, extra clips? Any food supplies they might have for the inmates? ------------- I am not a prophet |
Posted By: johngardner1
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 3:30pm
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Here's a tough question for you turboguy, if you are one of the last of the cops, would you shoot the dangerous inmates or let them starve to death? Would you let any of the inmates out, especially those in for minor offenses? What's your plan? ------------- I am not a prophet |
Posted By: johngardner1
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 3:41pm
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In the event of starving to death, I don't think any of us here want to end up in jail during a pandemic. I don't want to die that way myself. Most jail cells have a sink in them, you wouldn't die of thirst but you might eat some of your own fingers. I have gone without food before, you get nauseated and you get a headache. ------------- I am not a prophet |
Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 6:14pm
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I used to be opposed to guns, but when you sit and think about the possibilty of someone armed wanting to take your families preps (and lifeline), principals go out of the window. I don't have a lot of money to spend that my wife would miss (she's not on board yet) so I'm looking at an old Mosin Nagant 91/30. I know - old gun and slow to reload, but much more effective as a deterent than a knife, baseball bat, etc. Big 5 regularly has them on sale - I may go and check out what they've got this weekend. For $84 and $70 for the background check, it'll be a major thing I can check off my to do list. I've researched what to look for (non matching serial numbers, pitted bore, sticky bolt, etc) so hopefully I'll get something that'll do the job for very little outlay.
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Posted By: johngardner1
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 6:31pm
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Go to your local sports store, Fred Meyer's carries rifles in the sports section. Also, gun shops could have everything you're looking for. ------------- I am not a prophet |
Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: November 30 2007 at 5:15pm
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I'd like to go shopping but my budget is extremely tight. I haven't seen anything that I'd want to pull the trigger on for as little money as the Mosins at Big 5. I checked on the internet and they have quite a following as long as you're careful about the condition. I've never seen a Fred Meyers in this neck of the woods. Today conspired to stop me picking one up though - a routine trip to the dentists blew my budget further out of the water when I found out I need to have two root canals (spent six hours today between my dentists office and an endodontist to get one fixed), two crowns, and four fillings. Popping ibuprophen and nursing a sore jaw at the moment as the endodontist said one of the roots stopped just short of the sinus cavity in my cheek.
Let this be a lesson to everybody - get your teeth up to par just in case the SHTF and you can't get to a dentist for a while. |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 11:09am
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Jacksdad, instead of buying a Mosin from a store, you can order them directly from sources like J&G sales, get them in nearly new condition, and not have to deal with screwing around with a gun dealer that's trying to sell you crappy stuff.
You DO NOT WANT A GUN WITH A PITTED BORE! IF IT'S GOT A PITTED BORE IT'S GOT PITTED OTHER STUFF AND MIGHT BLOW UP! IF THE BOLT IS STICKING, IT'S BEEN FIRED WITH OVERPRESSURE CARTRIDGES, DO NOT BUY IT. Non matching serial numbers aren't that big of a deal, but it's nice for collectors. If you don't mind me asking, what city/state do you live in that it'd cost you $70 for a background check on a bolt action long gun? In most cases there is no background check for these weapons outside the standard *FREE* NICS instant check. Caveat Emptor, it sounds fishy to me. For $150 you can buy a mint Mosin Nagant, with 440 rounds of 7.62x54r ammo. I'll find you some links: Ammo http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/p/7-62x54r-bulgarian-heavy-ball-fmj-ammo%2C-300-rd-sealed-tin-/products_id/1692 - http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/p/7-62x54r-bulgarian-heavy-ball-fmj-ammo%2C-300-rd-sealed-tin-/products_id/1692 Rifle http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/military-bolt-action-rifles/russian/p/mosin-nagant-m-44-laminated-/cPath/209_219_261/products_id/1532 - http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/military-bolt-action-rifles/russian/p/mosin-nagant-m-44-laminated-/cPath/209_219_261/products_id/1532 If you call them make sure you ask for and pay the extra $10.00 for "Hand Select." It's very worth it. Buy the M44's as they're more modern and haven't taken the abuse the m38's have. Some of the '44's never saw action, ALL of the 38's did, and they show it. Don't discount these rifles. They're cheap, reliable, accurate, and POWERFUL! The 7.62x54 is nearly as powerful as our 30.06. If push came to shove and you had to shoot someone with this rifle, if you hit them, they're staying down. I've killed deer with mine, and I've seen people take bear with them as well. They do have a stout recoil though, just to warn you. If you get one, get an NRA safety course under your belt, and *PRACTICE* with it. The ammo for them is dirt cheap. you can afford to have a little fun with it. 
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Posted By: johngardner1
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 1:21pm
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We used to target practice every summer we went camping. Even though we never did do disneyland, the camping trips I think were a much better vacation. I've been using guns since I was 5, thats 32 years of experience. ------------- I am not a prophet |
Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: December 01 2007 at 9:53pm
| Thanks for the post turboguy. I'm basing the background check on the experience of a friend who picked up a pump load 12 gauge (I'm in San Diego, Ca). It may well be different for a bolt action gun. I'll call them tomorrow to find out. Thanks for the tips - I plan on making sure the gun I do buy is about as nice as I can find. I've heard horror stories concerning Big 5 Mosins, but I've also heard of people scoring them in almost unused condition. I'll check the links you provided too. Much appreciated :) |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: December 02 2007 at 8:14am
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Ohhh, you live in Kalifornia. Kalifornia is *VERY* not gun friendly, but there shouldn't be any real restrictions on that type of firearm, and definately not any further monetary charge for a free background check. You're not going to be getting your hands on a nice AK or AR as they have the whole detachable magazine deal, but a Mosin is well within the legal status in Kali.
Good luck, I hope you get a good one! |
Posted By: diego
Date Posted: December 28 2007 at 6:40pm
| turboguy, i started working a few months ago for the local metal recycler. a guy came in the other day with a feed sack of once fired brass. scaled in at 125 lbs. we buy cartridge brass at $1.60 per lb. can you read my mind? I'm like a kid in a candy store. when the guards from the prison across the road bring in their firing range brass, comes in by the 55 gal. drum, ( 5.56 & .40 s&w)...... powder & primers, can never have enough. |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: January 04 2008 at 8:59am
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Diego, I hate you...
Once fired? Probably federal brass too isn't it. God, if these guys had any idea exactly what they're giving away. With the price of ammo going through the roof I'm almost looking to maybe buy one of those really nice factory grade reloaders. |
Posted By: diego
Date Posted: January 04 2008 at 5:01pm
| turbo, Dillon progressive? nice stuff, do you get their blue press? I've got over 25 years on my Lyman turret press. also have a rockchucker. favorite cast bullet powders, reddot, unique and herco. speaking of cast, a local brought in a 450lb. block of wheel weights today. going to get some new blades for my sawsall, he,he,he. |
Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: January 05 2008 at 9:29pm
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I get the blue press, that's a good company.
------------- never underestimate the power of human stupidity |
Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: January 06 2008 at 3:52pm
| Just got back from the guns show here in Vegas. Picked up xd45 (13 rd) magazine for $20, one ak mag and one mag for my m4 for $14 each (new). I was suprised to see that 7.62x39 (1000 rds) Wolf ammo went for $189. In the local guns stores you see the stuff for $250. Some really good prices on the other ammo. Alot of the ammo was already gone so there were only a few to select from. I was suprised also that the show was half the size it was a year and a half ago. Last time I went it was wall to wall with all sorts of characters. I got that warm fuzzy feeling seeing all those gangsters types looking and buying. Anyway, I picked out what I am going to get my wife for her birthday. She doesn't know it yet but I think she will take a fancy to guns when I buy her that SOCOM II. |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: January 08 2008 at 6:11am
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Diego, that's exactly who I'm going to go through if I were going to do it. I buy most of my stuff from them as it stands, and haven't ever had a problem with any of their products.
Also the Blue Press has great articles. That one about Jim Zumbo's disgrace is a classic! Tadeo, look into the standard M1A. Those SOCOM ones are LOUD! A regular M1A can be used as a fantastic hunting rifle which nears the accuracy potential of a boltgun. The SOCOM, if shot without hearing protection (like hunting) can cause permanant hearing damage with as little as a single shot. Further they're nowhere near as accurate as the full length M1A. Don't get me wrong, it's still a gun, and I'm glad that you're getting her a very nice rifle, just take a look at the standard length options before you buy the shorty. |
Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: January 09 2008 at 4:48am
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The SOCUM II just looks too cool. You are right, the standard m1a is the way to go. However, after looking at the price ($1500) plus optics ($???) i may wait til Christmas. But the m1a is definitely my next gun..no..I meant her gun.
Question: What's everyones opinion for optics for the M4? I personally like the Eotech and the price is just about right at $400. I want to try to stay below that.
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Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: January 09 2008 at 2:18pm
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I am a *HUGE* fan of the EOTech. I used the Aimpoint when I first got into Warrants because some of the other officers said it was what they used during their Ranger days. I fugured if it's good enough for that, it's good enough for me.
Then I tried the EOTech and haven't gone back, nor will I, even if Aimpoint sponsored me! The EOTech is just about unbeatable. The huge field of view and smaller pinpoint just works better than the Aimpoint, in my opinion of course. Tadeo, do you get Shotgun News? There's an ad in there from Bachmann pawn and gun. They're a dealer out in Texas that sells new M1A's for right around $1000... I think they're in Texas. Anyway, you can get your rifle shipped to your local FFL and get it transferred. (following all local laws regarding ownership of a battle rifle) You're not going to need optics on your M1A. They're one of the most accurate battle rifles, thanks to that extremely long sight radius. Two inch groups at 200 yards in the prone unsupported position are commonplace at the range I shoot at. |
Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: January 10 2008 at 5:26am
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I thumb through Shotgun news when at Walmart. I'll check ou their ad next time I'm there. I am some what wary of doing out of state gun sales via mail or web. However I did google Bachmann pawn and gun and found them to be in Dallas, TX. On their web site they had the Gerand m1 for $1100 but not the m1a. Speaking of the Gerand, Big 5 had a sale a couple of years ago in which they sold the Gerand for $499. I kick myself for not getting one then. Aimpoint is rather expensive. I can't imagine myself spending more on an Aimpoint than what I spent on my Bushmaster. I also like the EOTech, but which one? The less expensive one uses double A batteries and the other one uses the lithium batteries but the expensive one can also be used with night vision equipment (i believe). Is it worth the $100 bucks more?
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Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: January 10 2008 at 2:07pm
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There's four or five models. The ones that use the AA cells are typically $50 more expensive, but they're the only way I go. I can get AA batteries just about anywhere, I have no idea where you're going to get those CR2015 cells (Or whatever they take) Only get the Nightvision one if you have a level IV or better nightvision device, otherwise it's a waste. You can put it down at the lowest setting and it's perfect for the older generations nightvision.
Bachmann Pawn and Gun can be contacted through the phone. You just call them, tell them you want to order whatever rifle you desire and tell them where you want it sent (An FFL). It's usually a good idea to talk to your FFL dealer prior to ordering to see if they'll do a transfer. If they charge $25 or close per transfer with no markup, go for it and toss him/her a $20 or $50 tip for their trouble. If they won't do it, or charge you ten or twenty percent, well... I wouldn't personally do business with them unless there was nowhere else to go. Anyway, I am the same way you are, I don't order stuff over the internet, I want to talk to a person. I make my order and get the weapon sent to the FFL dealer I know. He does the form 4473 NICS check, and the gun is mine. I toss him a $50 and say bye. Don't order stuff over the internet or by mail. If they don't have a phone number, don't buy from them. |
Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: January 11 2008 at 3:47am
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okay, so it's the double A one that cost more. It makes more sense to have that one instead due to battery availability. ------------- "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson. |
Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 3:24am
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found this article on Stevequayle.com. Rifle Skills (part 1)
http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/06_Prep_tips/080116.rifle.skills.html - http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/06_Prep_tips/080116.rifle.skills.html
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Posted By: FictionWriter
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 11:23pm
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Hey all, I'm wanting to add a rifle or shotgun, still not sure of which. Looking at 3 models, and wanting opinions, if ya please.
Henry Rifle AR-7, for camping/backpacking, and to keep in the truck on the long road trips...
Mossberg, maybe the 590 Special Purpose 9-shot or the Persuader 8-shot.
Finally, i have an opportuity to buy an M1A1 .30 carbine. I've looked over the rifle and it is in very good condition. Anyone know what they're going for these days?
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Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 12:41am
| Big 5 sporting goods has that carbine for $999. |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: January 19 2008 at 7:00am
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Fiction: http://www.odcmp.com/rifles/carbine.htm - http://www.odcmp.com/rifles/carbine.htm
As for your AR-7, only if you don't already have a Ruger 10-22. Though I hate Ruger and will never buy anything from that company due to their Second Amendment treason back in the 1990's, I do recognize that Ruger's 10-22 offering is a fantastic little .22LR, but only because of all teh aftermarket parts that various companies offer. You can get a 10-22, five or ten fifty round magazines, and 10,000 rounds of .22 on the cheap. You're probably not going to grab your 10-22 as your first choice for home defense, but it can get you a nice meal in a pinch if the situation warranted, and I suppose could be used as a defense weapon backing up someone with a larger weapon. Any Mossburg or Remington pumpgun will serve you faithfully as long as you keep them maintained. Both are fantastic deals, and you really are getting far more gun for the money you spend on these shotguns. My dad's had an 870 for nearly forty years and it's still kicking. |
Posted By: FictionWriter
Date Posted: January 20 2008 at 5:04am
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Don't have the 10/22. Was looking for something in a compact 22, which is what attracted me to the Henry AR-7, I tend to be a better shot with a rifle than a pistol.
I was under the impression that most dealers would either be at or below MSRP...Henry MSRP on that gun is about $225. Local dealer wants $300 for it. They want at least $200 abover MSRP on the mossberg and the M1 is over $1k.
I am shopping around though....anyone care to tell me what they've seen the guns go for? Trying to figure out what I should expect to pay plus/minus $100
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Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: January 20 2008 at 6:44am
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Fiction, The Ruger 10/22 is a rifle, is very compact, and is exactly in the price range you're talking about. The parts are ubiqutious and most of the time the 10/22 is rediculously accurate. I've got a 16 inch heavy barrel on mine with a scope that's designed for an AR15. At 50 yards I make happy faces on two inch diameter targets. Anything more than that and wind kind of screws up my smiley. I think you've got my recommendation confused with the Ruger Mk4.
You're a beter shot with a rifle because rifles are inherently more accurate than pistols. The sight radius is three to four times as long, they're far more steady, and usually two or three times as powerful even when in the same chambering as a pistol. Follow the link I gave you for the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) the guy is screwing you on that price for that M1 Carbine. I bought one for $565.00 from CMP. If you're a member of a shooting club, military/ex-military, VFW, American Legion, or police officer you can buy direct from CMP, and they'll ship it to your house. No FFL necessary. |
Posted By: FictionWriter
Date Posted: January 20 2008 at 11:59pm
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Yeah, i figured the price was outrageous but I hadn't found anything less expensive. Thanks for the link, BTW.
I've seen and used a 10/22. As far as rifles go, it's pretty nice. I found the Henry attractive caue I could break it down and stow it in my pack, and like i said, i'm better with a rifle. My hands shake sometimes, and it makes holding a pistol steady a real challenge.
I have other rifles for large game, but i'd really hate to use a 308 on a rabbit...wanting the smaller caliber and inexpensive ammo option for small game animals, like rabbit, squirrel, etc.
Was looking at the 12 gauge more for home defense than anything else, though it might also be used a bit for quail or dove.
Thanks for the advice.
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Posted By: diego
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 5:39pm
| fictionwriter, warning, you might catch m-1 carbineitis. turbo's right go with CMP. if you handload you can get that $25.00 a box factory ammo down to less than $3.00 with cast bullets. a buddie just called, scored me 1000 once fired brass for free, made my night. |
Posted By: FictionWriter
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 7:56pm
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CMP looks like the way to go for me. Could someone explain in not so technical terms the differences between RACK and SERVICE grade? Price point between the two isn't bad, but i want to know if the cost difference is worth the extra or not? |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 8:31pm
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I personally say it is, but I will go with a rifle that's got the more modern upgrades in a lesser grade. The WWII rifles don't have the nifty upgrades that made the later incarnations (Korea, early vietnam, etc) far more reliable and accurate, though they are historic.
If you were to buy a Garand, make SURE you buy the Korea ones. Their upgrades made them more safe as during WWII op rods were known to sometimes snap and injure the shooter.
The real difference is that one grade is just going to show less usage than the other or have different serial numbers on the parts. Realistically there isn't much difference.
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Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 1:00pm
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Anyone know if keeping the magazines loaded (specifically for my m4 and ak mags) for lengthy periods of time causes damage to the mags? I read somewhere that doing this can cause damage. I had several Glock mags loaded for several years and forgot about them and when I went to the range they worked fine. I would think that keeping the spring compressed for that long on any brand of mag would cause it to become weak thereby rendering it useless. I can't find anything on the internet addressing this. ------------- "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson. |
Posted By: diego
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 8:10pm
| everything i ever read stated it's the loading and unloading that causes spring wear/fatigue. |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: February 20 2008 at 11:29am
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Tadeo, the newer magazines with the newer followers won't overcompress and fatigue the springs, like used to happen.
I guess you'd screw up your mag-spring if you kept it loaded for extreme amounts of time, I.E. a decade, but I too have had magazines loaded for years (My AR's/AK's/M14 included) and haven't experienced a problem... yet. I have a healthy disagreement with some that claim that cycling magazines will fatigue your springs. Were that the case I would have experienced mag related stoppages with some of my AR magazines that I've loaded and unloaded/emptied literally a thousand times. I've owned some of them for more than fifteen years and they still work fine. Tadeo a great way to royally mess up a magazine (especially an AR magazine) is to fully load it and then with it packed tight, stick it in your gun and leave it there for an extended time. That'll overcompress the magspring sure as taxes! Basically the bolt/slide pushes down on the stack of cartridges, which smashes the magspring onto itself unevenly. You'll get little kinks in the spring and it won't go all the way to the top strong enough to actuate the boltcatch. In my duty sidearm I top off the magazines, and don't put one in the chamber unless it's a fresh one from the magazine. So if you're going to have a loaded magazine in your firearm drop off one round. That way you won't overcompress and your magazines will forever be happy! |
Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: February 20 2008 at 12:05pm
| Thanks Diego and Turboguy! I have a XD-45 for home defense and I keep the mag fully loaded. I didn't even think about overcompressing the spring. I'm off to take one round out now! |
Posted By: FictionWriter
Date Posted: February 24 2008 at 4:48pm
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Decided against the folding Henry in .22 caliber, and am going with the Kel-Tec folding .223. Why? Well it folds down to fit in a backpack. It has an integral bi-pod. The stock is hollowed out to fit 2 ten-round mags or 1 of either 20 or 30 round mags. Better yet, it uses standard m-16 mags, which are usually pretty cheap. And it's a good caliber for varmint hunting.
And since i had to limit my purchase to one gun, i figured this one as my best bet...Kel-Tec Su-16B
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Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: February 25 2008 at 7:45pm
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Hey Fiction, those are pretty nifty, I must admit!
I bought a few of MagPul's new M16 magazines, and now I'm afraid that I have to not only recommend them highly, I'm probably going to buy ten more. They'll work flawlessly in your SU16, and even have a cool snap on/off dustcap that seals them up pretty good. They even work better than the original steel magazines. |
Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 1:47am
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Anyone stockpiling ammo for when the poop hits the pan? And how much is enough? Just did an inventory and found that I have a little over 6500 rounds combined for all my toys. I think I have enough rounds for the handguns but maybe not enough .223 and 7.62. I have three shotguns and only 250 shells. Maybe I should get more? ------------- "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson. |
Posted By: Weeping Willow
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 8:47pm
| if you do your own reloading better buy your brass and such as prices are going up for metals. |
Posted By: diego
Date Posted: March 01 2008 at 4:35am
| i work for a metal recycler, clean number one copper is the new gold. move your buy more brass to the top of your essentials list. you have not seen anything yet. |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: March 02 2008 at 8:15am
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I've been snapping up a thousand or two of 7.62x39 every chance I get. The .223 I'm looking for good deals, but I think they've all nearly dried up. I'm not even looking for .308 anymore. It's worth it's weight in gold!
nearly 3000 7.62x39 1400 or so .223 2400 7.62x54 (Dragunov and Mosin) I picked up a mess of Indian 308 when it was rediculously cheap. I didn't want to shoot it out of my M1A, but now you don't really have a choice! When I picked it up it was like $39.99/700 rounds on those crappy bandoleers and on stripper clips. Now I've seen those bandoleers being sold for more than $50.00 apiece! I guess they're reloadable too, so I'm going to hang on to them as long as I can. |
Posted By: diego
Date Posted: March 02 2008 at 2:08pm
| turbo, waiting for the next 55 gal. drum of once fired range brass (5.56 and 40 s&w) the prison guards bring in. if or when it happens, i'll see if i can help you out .22 cal. wise. if i shot .223 i would get the corbin jacket swaging die set to make bullets from rimfire brass, besides casting .22 cal bullets. the most essential brass i'm putting away now is .30-06 ,forming 8mm mauser, 7.65 ag. mauser, 7.7 jap and .308 win. from it. with the right know how, when the time comes, you can become chief of your village. |
Posted By: diego
Date Posted: March 02 2008 at 2:27pm
| one more thing, the reason i like the hi-point carbine and m-1 carbine, they use straight wall brass. in fact i still have the orignal 200 m-1 brass from 1989, loaded so many times ive lost count. their a little thin now but still good, hows that for case life. |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 7:29pm
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Is your Hi-Point carbine the 9mm or the .40?
Diego, you might want to just keep the 30.06 for 30.06, unless you've got a good supplier. I've been getting it from CMP, but I think they're just down to the Greek stuff now. It shot okay out of my bolt action and Garand (Around 2MOA with the scope) but wasn't anything to write home over. I've got so much rimfire I don't know what I'm going to do with it all! Back when it was $10.00/500 or so I bought a mess of 22LR's. I've only got a 10/22 (Bull barrel and nice scope), but anytime I take a female shooting that's her gun of choice when she see's me making smiley faces of 1inch targets at 50 yards. They are truly great weapons for getting girls into the shooting arts. That's great that they're giving you their .223 brass for free! Is it all LC or FC headstamped too? I figured prisons would be using that nifty Hornady stuff out of those teflon non reloadable cases. |
Posted By: diego
Date Posted: March 06 2008 at 5:41pm
| turbo, when i bought my high point, 1998 they only had the 9mm model. they will be coming out with the .45 cal. carbine anytime now i heard. after 10 years and thousands of rounds, not ONE malfunction, they have a lifetime warranty to boot. have plenty of .30-06 always coming in from buddies. like you , good on rimfire, federal bulk packs, cci stinger and quick-shock. at work their paying $1.70 per pound for cartridge brass. weigh out some .308 or .223 per pound , i buy it from them same price. i'll let you know about the lake city brass. |
Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: March 10 2008 at 4:48am
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Got to have this flashlight.
copy and paste this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D99NHb6B03s ------------- "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson. |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: March 10 2008 at 11:59am
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Cool gun, too bad it's got to be SBR's for anyone to own.
Hopefully a repercussion in case law of the decision the Supreme Court is making in reference to the Second Amendment, will strike down the SBR law. Wouldn't *THAT* be a treat? |
Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: March 10 2008 at 6:07pm
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Turboguy, I would think that weapon would be considered a pistol and not a rifle. Either way I would pay the $200 ATF sticker. I like the fact that it folds up and you can place it in your back pocket. Way too cool! ------------- "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson. |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: March 10 2008 at 7:07pm
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Haha Tadeo, I know! I want one too now.
I think it's considered an SBR if you have a buttstock on it. Like those Glock kits that have the stock thingy but use the standard barrel are illegal SBR's unless they're registered with the BATFE. If you live in a crappy jurisdiction I don't know if your local sherriff would sign off on your owning an SBR. Some of them are kind of finniky about it. If you live in a rural area and your Sherriff knows guns, he'll probably sign off on it. |
Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: March 11 2008 at 3:56am
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Las Vegas is pretty liberal when it comes to owning firearms. Our new sheriff was my old Captian when I was briefly with LVMPD. ------------- "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson. |
Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: March 19 2008 at 6:58pm
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Turboguy, you gave out the ammoman.com web site a couple of weeks ago, have you bought on line from them before? How do you rate them? I was thinking on getting some Wolf .223 ammo for my m4, have you shot that thru yours and was it real dirty? Ammoman definetly has some cheap 7.62 and I like the fact that they have free shipping ------------- "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson. |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: March 20 2008 at 2:06pm
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Yeah man, I buy from them quite a bit.
I just picked up 2000 rds of .223 Silver Bear from AIM Surplus today. 500/$112... This is the cheapest I've found it, and I really haven't seen ammo prices coming down, nor do I see them coming down anytime soon. At Ammunitionstore they just put the shipping costs into the price of their ammo.
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Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: April 10 2008 at 9:21am
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Turboguy, have you shot any of that silver bear .223 yet? I called AIM surplus yesterday and they were out of it, won't get any for a couple of weeks. What do you think of it, is it clean to shoot? I read some reviews of Wolf and a lot of people did not care for it in their M4's. If you shot silver and like it I might try to get some. ------------- "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson. |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: April 11 2008 at 8:08am
| Actually it wasn't too bad. Reasonably accurate, reasonable cleanliness. My only complaint is the primer sealant, but that good for long term storage, so it's fairly moot. |
Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: April 26 2008 at 7:49pm
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Anybody shot Sellier and Bellot .223 ammo? Tell me what ya think. Is $300 for 1000 rounds an okay price? ------------- "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson. |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: April 27 2008 at 7:04am
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It's my favorite and I buy it every chance I get.
Mind letting me in on where you're seeing this advertized? I'll pick up a thousand of it too!
Most .223 is selling right around $250 - $350 per thousand. CDNN's got Federal for $350/1000. S&B was and still is my favorite. It's clean, extremely accurate, and seems to have the perfect powder for AR's. It's good stuff.
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Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: April 28 2008 at 2:21am
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No store, just through a private sale. I'm going to call the dude tomorrow and see if he still has it. ------------- "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson. |
Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: May 06 2008 at 2:13am
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I think I got a good deal! 2000 rounds of Wolf 7.62 for $300 and 840 rounds of that Sellier and Bellot 5.56 for $235. All still in the box. ------------- "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson. |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: May 07 2008 at 2:00pm
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You got a damn good deal!
I just picked up 3000 rounds of .308 for $600 yesterday from a guy at work that I dislike. He's gonna be ***sed when he figures out exactly what that ammo is worth.
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Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: May 07 2008 at 6:12pm
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Turboguy, how do you store your ammo? I ran out of ammo cans and now I just store everything in the closet. I guess I should buy a couple more large cans to store my recent purchase. ------------- "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson. |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: May 08 2008 at 4:50am
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A few years ago i bought a pile of South African .308 and it came in huge waterpfoofed ammo cans. They're about twice the size of those .50 cal ammo cans many people use. I store my ammo that didn't originally come in a can in those and I've got a nice dry spot in my attic to put it. My house is very old so I'm afraid to put it in my basement.
Most of my 7.62x39 came in spam cans that need a can opener to get into. Those are reasonably protective of the ammo inside so they'd probably be safe anywhere I put them. The other stuff I've got three of those mega tupperware bins that I put the regular boxed stuff in, sorted by caliber. I got my hands on a couple cans of dessicant and put that in a jar with holes poked in the lids to eat up the moisture.
For my grab and go right now, I've got ten loaded 30 rounders for my M4 in three M16 magazine holders, and a Beta "C" drum magazine that's got 100 rounds.
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