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M-16 vs. AK-47: Which to choose?

Printed From: Avian Flu Talk
Category: Home & Family Planning
Forum Name: Home Protection
Forum Description: (Home and self protection)
URL: http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=20636
Printed Date: April 20 2019 at 8:11pm


Topic: M-16 vs. AK-47: Which to choose?
Posted By: Tadeo
Subject: M-16 vs. AK-47: Which to choose?
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 3:27pm

A couple of videos to help anyone deciding which one to choose from.

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0  
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvrG4T2K4sE - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvrG4T2K4sE
 
 
 
 


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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson.



Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 4:18pm
OMG forget accuracy that ak47 is a mean killing machine! The penetration is unbelievable compared to the M16. Of course the ak47 accuracy is no match to the precision shot of an M16. JMHO Good videos, thanks Annie


Posted By: coyote
Date Posted: June 17 2008 at 6:11am
Great Video's! I'm thinking on getting a Ruger mini-30. It uses the same 7.62x39 as my SKS does.

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Long time lurker since day one to Member.


Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 11:29am
I'd avoid the ruger, not much more accurate than the sks and ruger doesn't like for the peasants to have full capacity mags.  aftermarket mags are crap and the zero wandersw about when the rifle gets warm.

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never underestimate the power of human stupidity


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 10:21am
did you notice all the left handers shooting those aks..


Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 3:28am
Cole, be quiet, you just OFFENDED all of the libtards by saying "Left."  Oh boy, now all the boohoo cry babies are now definitely going to petition Albert for your hanging. 
 
By the way, your video on Aquarius was pretty gay.  Ahhh shoot, what I meant was that it gave me a happy feeling inside.  I must report myself to the Homeland Sensitivity Director for re-training.  Thanks alot, Cole!  Cry


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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson.


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 10:31pm

Go with the AR, unless you're a lefty. If you're a southpaw the major drawbacks that make the AK platform crappy for us righties are huge advantages.

What good is penetration if even scoring a hit at as little as 100 yards is firmy in the realm of semi controlled luck? With my AR I can reliably put thirty bullets onto a pieplate at 100 yards offhand (Standing up) rapid-fire. I challenge you to do that with an AK.


Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: July 11 2008 at 8:25am
Okay, here is another good video.  Dude went to Pakistan and looked into the weapons markert.  Unbelievable prices!
 
http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=494769783 - http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=494769783


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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson.


Posted By: monte
Date Posted: September 11 2008 at 7:57pm

deleted



Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: September 18 2008 at 3:51pm
I have posted this video before but this has got to be the coolest gun out there!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D99NHb6B03s - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D99NHb6B03s


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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson.


Posted By: randyb
Date Posted: September 30 2008 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by wrote:

did you notice all the left handers shooting those aks..
 
I'm a lefty and I shoot a STAG arms Left handed AR.  Love it. 


Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: January 18 2009 at 12:34pm
one of my friends just bought a stagg lefty and he loves it.  I just picked up a nice norinco hunter [milled receiver ak]  that was converted by a guy that knows how to do it right.  can't believe i got it as cheap as i did in this time of rampant obamunism and panic.

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never underestimate the power of human stupidity


Posted By: John G
Date Posted: April 28 2009 at 7:07pm
Interesting videos and a lot of good comments.  I am fortunate enough to own both the AK47 and the M16A1.  For distance and accuracy, the M16 is superior, but for raw fire power and intimidation, nothing beats the AK47.
 
A brief word of caution to those who are viewing these posts with an eye to the coming pandemic and the need to protect themselves and their families.  In most states you have an absolute right to use deadly force if you are in "reasonable imminent danger".  Shooting someone at 200 yards, or even 200 feet probably doesn't qualify for that and prosecutors have a pesky habit of labeling that murder, not self defense. 
 
For home protect the AK47 and M16 are good only if you have a crowd massed on your front lawn carrying guns, knives and clubs and they start coming through the doors or windows.  Then maximum fire power without the need to reload is certainly called for and either weapon will work well.  Of course, for basic home protection, nothing works like a pump action shotgun.  While I have many shotguns, both automatic and pump, the sound of that pump locking a shell into the chamber is like nothing else in this world and theives and bad guys know that sound all too well.  Just locking in a round is often sufficient to send them packing.  If not, forget accuracy.  Just fire off a 12 gauge buck shot at the door and clear the entire area.
 
Keep safe and keep legal.  Learn the laws in your area.  Even if we are in a pandemic situation, when it passes law and order will return and there will be plenty of bleeding hearts who will want to second guess your actions.  Be sure you have acted properly in defending your family.


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John G.


Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: April 28 2009 at 7:14pm
this is true.  although the sound of a pump action shotgun slide doesn't have the effect it once had.  

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never underestimate the power of human stupidity


Posted By: sparrowminded
Date Posted: July 12 2009 at 1:57am
It's a shame that people are so unclear about most of this.  First, there is no longer such a thing as an M-16.  That design evolved into the AR-15, back in the previous millennium.
No matter.  If you're just getting into the market right now, look first for ammo.  Not just whether or not you can find any, but you really need at least 500 rounds.  At this point, you'll only find shotgun shells.  Not just any shells though.  I've been seeing a good supply of #4 shot at Walmart lately, and that's the smallest I'll consider.
Very good to read up here:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/index.php - http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/index.php about guns in general, and here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_shell - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_shell about shotshells in general.
If you opt for a shotgun, you'll need something to tame the recoil.  This is what I use:
http://www.knoxx.com/products/SpecOps_Stock.php - http://www.knoxx.com/products/SpecOps_Stock.php
Contrary to a previous poster, yes, racking the slide on a pump gun certainly does get attention.  More contrary, NO, firing a load of buckshot at the door will NOT clear an area.  A 12 ga. 2 3/4" shell holds only 9 pieces of 00 buck.  From a tactical shotgun like the Rem. 870 express or Mossberg 500,  that load will disperse to only about 6 inches in dia. in the average room.  You have to have some practice.


Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: July 12 2009 at 10:15am
i agree with most of what you said, other than the M16 thing.  the M16 is certainly around as it's the current issue rifle of the armed forces, the AR15 is the civilian version of that rifle.  

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never underestimate the power of human stupidity


Posted By: sparrowminded
Date Posted: July 13 2009 at 2:25am
OK.  It would be a very bad idea for civilians to try to acquire m-16's, because the military would come after you with M-60's to get them back.
I see a lot of discussion all over the web about what's the "best" gun to have in a terrible civil situation.  My primary choice right now is the same as it was during the harum scarum we went through in the mid-90's.  That is the Ruger 10/.22 carbine.  With a little bit of anatomy knowledge and careful shooting, the puny .22 lr cartridge can be every bit as effective as the .50 BMG against an armed adversary.  The .22 actually has several advantages:
1.)  You can easily carry 1,000 rounds of ammo, along with several magazines in a stout fanny pack.
2.)  It's quiet.  In a setting of general pandemonium, the enemy is likely to find it impossible to find you by trying to listen for gunshots.
3.)  There is no muzzle flash from a rifle.  Even at night, an enemy will be unable to locate you by looking for your muzzle flash.
4.)  Within 100 yds., the .22 lr is powerful enough to be lethal, with well placed shots.  Even if it doesn't kill straight away, an enemy will be greatly discouraged from closing the distance between you.  With the absence of recoil, you can fire 2 shots within 1/4 sec. of each-other, creating a much more grievous wound.
If I have to shoot at someone, I don't care if it kills him, or just hurts him really bad.  Either way, the threat is canceled.
The problem now, as with any caliber, is finding ammo.  It's worth looking hard, and paying a bit extra.  My Scoped CRR carbine (a smaller version of the 10/.22, with a 16" barrel) and 2,000 rounds of ammo weighs in at about the same as your military rifle with 100 rounds of ammo in magazines.  With my .22, I can shoot the untrained fool with that amazing M-4 or Sig 556, and have any gun I want.


Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: July 13 2009 at 7:12am
 .22's are very useful and are part of any well rounded survival battery, but as a defensive round are severely deficient.  the weapon you have is always gonna beat the one you don't have, so i won't argue there, but if looking for a defensive weapon it would be my last choice!

  As long as the M16 meets the legal criteria, you can buy it legally!  They prices on these sorts of guns are terrible now die to the democrats and their silly fear of firearms, but it can be had.


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never underestimate the power of human stupidity


Posted By: sparrowminded
Date Posted: July 14 2009 at 2:16am
And that is the standard response.  Then we look at this:
http://rusguns.net/?SPECIAL_PURPOSE_WEAPONS/SV-99_sniper_rifle - http://rusguns.net/?SPECIAL_PURPOSE_WEAPONS/SV-99_sniper_rifle     Aha!  Russia was met with such a nasty reception in Chechnya, because those wiley Chechens paid no heed to the standard response, and used .22 lr sniper rifles to very nasty effect.  The Russians were impressed enough with the points that I made in my previous post to develop their own version.  Now, let's have a little look at what the Israelis know about the Ruger 10/.22:
http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.htm - http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.ht 
Yes, those are Israeli troops, using the very carbine I prefer in a military capacity.
Consider that in the situations that we are most likely to encounter in mainland America, citizens will not be opposing trained military units.  Nor will the bad guys have access to medical facilities.
Now, let's look at a little bit of gel testing:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/var22lrrifle.html - http://www.brassfetcher.com/var22lrrifle.html   My preferred .22 lr round is the Rem. 36 gr. golden bullet HP.  We see that average penetration is 11.9".  Expansion for all of the HP bullets is just over .30  I've done testing with wet phone books, mud, and water, firing two quick shots.  In the phone books and mud, I found that the wound channels converged after about 4" of penetration, and produced a wound channel after that which closely matched that of a 124 gr. 9mm HP.
Again, I stress that this won't blow a man to pieces, or even kill him right away.  The entire object is to make him stop attacking me, and it will do that very well.
If you read over the various gun forums, you'll find that .22 lr round nose ammo has been and remains the preferred method for dispatching livestock in small operations and rural settings.  This is why I mention a knowledge of anatomy.  If a .22 lr will dispatch a 600 lb. hog or a 1,000 lb. cow, dontcha' imagine that it could maybe work on a man?
Of course, this isn't the answer for every situation.  Best if you have beliggerents coming in from a little distance, and you want to hurt them without being discovered.  Most people don't have the guts or the stupidity to keep pursuing you after they've taken a hit or two to the face/neck.  Some will, and it's best to have a shotgun to meet them as the distance closes to more like 100 feet.  If they get even closer, it's a grand idea to have a reliable semi-auto pistol or three on hand.  That should be the order of weapons used at different engagement distances.  By culling the threat with a .22, you conserve your larger caliber ammo, which is heavier and harder to come by.
Now, as for attaining a real live M-16.  Just the paperwork is going to cost over $6,000.  The M-16 is selective fire.  If you are going to fire in burst mode, you better have a close relative who works at the Lake City plant, or you will just plain not keep that thing fed.  Assuming you can afford and locate the ammo, are you going to hire a couple of coolies to haul it around for you?  You see, I have a very bothersome habit of making sense.






Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: July 14 2009 at 3:36am
Originally posted by sparrowminded sparrowminded wrote:

And that is the standard response. 
 
No, that is a realistic response. I've never been in a gunfight where people walked toward me like zombies so I could inflict grevious head and neck wounds. Yes it is true that a .22LR can be a devastating weapon, and more people have been killed or assassinated with this round than any other, but if I hit someone I want the fight ended right now regardless of where I strike them. A .22LR, even out of a rifle, simply can not deliver that kind of performance.
 
People you're shooting at have this nasty tendency to run in a zig zag, get behind cover, and shoot back. I want a gun that's going to probably defeat that cover.
 
Furthermore I want the report of me firing the weapon to be an instantly demoralizing psychological blow. The "Crack" of a .22 vs. the "bang" of a .223 (Or the boom of a .308) are factors. During the shootout (I forget the names involved) where the FBI wielding revolvers and 2 9mm's fought the two guys who were weilding Mini14's, the reports that came from the FBI agents said that the sound of the Mini14 firing at them was a psychological blow.
 
Quote
Consider that in the situations that we are most likely to encounter in mainland America, citizens will not be opposing trained military units.  Nor will the bad guys have access to medical facilities.
 
The Israelis are largely shooting from behind concealment/cover at people in the open and unaware of the danger. If you're going to be picking at someone that has no idea what's up, fine. Your .22 will serve you admirably. If someone's actually a dedicated attacker, they're going to come at you with body armor, which is extremely cheap, and from behind cover. You need a weapon that can perforate their armor and their cover.
 
Quote
Again, I stress that this won't blow a man to pieces, or even kill him right away.  The entire object is to make him stop attacking me, and it will do that very well.
 
I'm currently deployed and have seen people shot with M16's and AK47's continue fighting though they've got truly grevious wounds, and skeletal hits. These are weapons that are more powerful by trigometric functions than a .22LR. Can and will a .22 kill? You bet. Is it a fight stopper? Not by a long shot.
 
Quote
Of course, this isn't the answer for every situation.  Best if you have beliggerents coming in from a little distance, and you want to hurt them without being discovered.  Most people don't have the guts or the stupidity to keep pursuing you after they've taken a hit or two to the face/neck.  Some will, and it's best to have a shotgun to meet them as the distance closes to more like 100 feet.
 
Or they'll hear your pop gun and sit at 100 to 200 yards and trow FMJ at you in a higher caliber. After 100 yards a .22 is only moving at right around 1000 FPS with maybe 80 Foot pounds of force. That's not enough to get through plywood, much less someone with enough penetration to stop them.
 
Quote
Now, as for attaining a real live M-16.  Just the paperwork is going to cost over $6,000.  The M-16 is selective fire.  If you are going to fire in burst mode, you better have a close relative who works at the Lake City plant, or you will just plain not keep that thing fed.  Assuming you can afford and locate the ammo, are you going to hire a couple of coolies to haul it around for you? 
 
This is untrue. It will cost you $200 for a BATFE tax stamp and background check to own a class 3 fully automatic weapon, Destructive device, or short barreled rifle. The rifle ITSELF will cost you a pretty penny, upwards of $4000 or more, but for the deal to buy it, it's only $200.
 
Also I can, right now, name easily 20 websites where I can not only buy .223, 7.62x39, .308, but .380, 9x18, 9mm, .40S&W and whatever accessories I might need at awesome prices. That will keep my weapons fed for a very long time. My default load here is 240 rounds, but I have a vest that lets me carry four extra magazines for a total of 360. My rifle has burst capability, but I rarely use it.
 
Back in the States I personally own a G36, several AR15's, several AK's, an AUG, etc and have absolutely no trouble at all feeding them and I shoot twice or more a week. Ammo is still plentiful if you know where to look.
 
Quote You see, I have a very bothersome habit of making sense.
 
No, right now you're not. Your facts are woefully not based in reality. Your fact about the paperwork for a Class 3 stamp is wrong as is your explanation that there are no more M16's. I currently carry an M16 on duty, NOT an M4, as I like the ballistic advantage I get from the 20 inch barrel vs the 14 inch. Do research before you post something like that. You're debating with someone (Detpat) that has years of real world triggertime, both is law enforcement and military and I believe, correct me if I am wrong, has taught defensive firearms for more than twenty years. When he says something regarding firearms, I listen, and nobody can call me a gun lightweight.


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: July 14 2009 at 3:55am
From AR15.com
 
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=199928 - http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=199928
 
Q: Do I need a license to buy a machine gun?
A: No, you don't need a license. If you are permitted by law to own a handgun and your state allows the transfer of machine guns, you can buy one.

Q: Where do I get a permit for a machine gun?
A: You don' t need a permit, either. You do need to complete an "Application For Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm", also known as a Form 4, and this must be signed by the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) in your locale. You also need to submit, in duplicate, a complete set of fingerprints and passport-size photos, plus a signed Certificate of Compliance, Form 5330.20, regarding your citizenship. The BATF then sends your fingerprints to the FBI for a background check while the BATF checks out the legality of the item being transferred. If all goes well, in about 90-120 days, the BATF sends the approved Form 4 back to your dealer and you can go pick up the Form 4 and your new toy. The item is now registered with the BATF in your name and the Form 4 is your only proof of this, so a copy should be with the NFA item at all times. Think of it sort of like a car title. The item was transferred to you and when you sell it, you transfer it to the new owner.

Q: What is the charge for this transfer?
A: When your application to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is submitted there is a $200 transfer tax to be paid for machine guns and silencers and a $5.00 transfer tax for AOW.

Q: I want one - is my state a "machine gun state"?
A: Click here to check out regs in your state: http://www.autoweapons.com/pagelinks/statelist.html - www.autoweapons.com/pagelinks/statelist.html


Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: July 14 2009 at 7:35am
outstanding points turboguy!

  I agree with everything he said, you aren't making much sense as you seem to have made several fundamental mistakes that are common to the less experienced.

  as for the butchering example you use........if you want to continue with that one you need to have your adversary's in a slaughter pen and calm, as well as still.  actually many farmers use a sledgehammer to kill the animals.  how do i know.....I've butchered more cattle and hogs than you have friends!  grew up on a  farm in northern WV and been there done that!


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never underestimate the power of human stupidity


Posted By: sparrowminded
Date Posted: July 15 2009 at 2:11am
OK fine.  You have your experience, and it's good that we share our experiences here, so that people who have questions can see where it goes.
I've never desired a machine gun.  Rather, I've owned many variations on the TC Contender action, and a good dose of Ruger #1 Rifles.  I have been in several shooting altercations, and I'm still here, writing.
I believe that the more important question (rather than a choice between AK or AR types) is what gun do you feel most comfortable with?  For some, the Nagant is a wonderful rifle.  If I had unlimited money and available ammo, I believe that the DPMS LR 308
http://www.dpmsrifle.com/item/66369_DPMS_Rifles_Shotguns_DPMS_PANTHER_LR-308_308WI.aspx - http://www.dpmsrifle.com/item/66369_DPMS_Rifles_Shotguns_DPMS_PANTHER_LR-308_308WI.aspx    would be my top choice, and the Sierra 165 gr. Gameking would be the bullet that I would work out a best load for.  If we get through the next 3 years with mankind and our rights intact, I'll probably grow old(er), playing with that toy.
Meanwhile, I think the average guy who feels the need to acquire some decent defense weapons would be best advised to find an SKS rifle in good shape.  There's a whole discussion to go with those, but basically, the round is relatively recoil-less, effective, and available.
Do what you want to do.  I find that I am able to do what I want to do when I am armed with my little CRR carbine and my Glock 17.  More than once, that has been what I needed to convince people that it was better to leave me alone.  There is no other reason I can think of for pointing a gun toward other human beings.  G'day.


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: July 15 2009 at 3:38am

Sparrowminded, I agree with the vast majority of your points.

 

I totally agree with your statement that whatever weapon system you're most comfortable with is the right one for you. A $150 Mosin-Nagant is an extremely powerful and pretty darn accurate firearm. I own one myself that I bought minty from Century. If you get to where you and that gun are one, I would be hard pressed to take you on knowing the limitations of that rifle.

 

My only real problems with the LR308 is that they use a proprietary magazine and the dirty direct gas impingement system. I've just got a problem with any weapon that magazines are expensive and as hard to come by as hen's teeth. The operating system basically "BLEEPs where it eats and with as much fairly slow burning powder as the .308 has the gun gets dirty quickly. Just my personal beef, if you like it, whatever stirs your oatmeal. My .308 battle rifle is an M14. The mags are extremely plentiful, the weapon's reliability is the standard to which all other battle rifles are compared. (Notice I said Battle RIFLES, not Carbines like an AK, AR15 etc)

 
I thought those DPMS rifles were going for $1100? That's really not all that bad right now.  

 

I very much enjoy the Contender. Funny story about that one: I got a call about a suicide with firearm. When I arrived I found a guy dead with a gunshot under his chin through the top of his head. He was using a Contender with the barrel in .30 cal (Like an M1 Carbine). Problem was that the first shot didn't kill him so he had to reload and zap himself again with that single shot pistol.

 

If I were going to recommend a weapon to the unwashed masses it'd depend on their monetary well being. For most I'd say to go with an AR variant. They're ubiquitous, meaning you can get parts, ammo, and mags quite literally anywhere and they're more than powerful enough for social uses. AR's can start at $600 and top out somewhere around $3000. I build my own, part by part, so I get exactly what I want at abetter price than if I bought the rifle outright.

 

Second Choice I'd get an AK of some kind. They're still pretty plentiful, ubiquitous parts, and still a great choice for social uses.

 
Only then would I recommend the venerable SKS. Oh they're very much like the AK system, it's just that parts and magazines for them are a bit more difficult to find and they have that whole open top deal. Don't get me wrong, they're fantastic little guns, and strangely accurate considering the shortcoming that the 7.62x39 is.
 
My newest gun that is probably going to get my "Go to gun" title is the Sig556. They took all the best parts of the AK and AR15 and came out with a darn nice weapon. My beef with it is that parts are hard to come by, but if it's anything like the Sig550 series, parts breakage should be very limited.


Posted By: sparrowminded
Date Posted: July 16 2009 at 1:52am
It's nice to have the toyz, but the old Sarge in "Once we were Soldiers" really hit it for me when he went in with a 1911, and told the boss that if he needed a rifle, there'd be plenty laying around.
Of course, you know that most SKS rifles don't have detachable mags.
Back to the Sarge tho.  There really isn't any virtue in collecting guns, or even owning the "right one" before things get nasty.  Having adequate defense is the big ticket.  For the layman, a 12 ga. pump and a case of #4 buck should be fine to see him through any short-term conflict.  For someone more gun oriented, it may be good to have a Glock 17 and a Kel Tec 9mm carbine that accepts the same mags.  After the shooting starts, there will indeed be plenty of rifles laying around.  There is merit in having nothing planned but a good hiding place, where you can go until the first round of local conflict has passed.  Just wait, and then sneak out and see what you can find.
Your points about the dirty action of the DPMS are well taken.  That's why I object to the AR platform.  For someone interested, the Remington R-15 line uses a gas piston, and the new Ruger 556:
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Rifle&subtype=Autoloading&famlst=66&variation=10/22%C2%AE%20Rimfire - http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Rifle&subtype=Autoloading&famlst=66&variation=10/22® Rimfire   has a 2 stage piston with a 4 position gas regulator.  If you carefully study all that went into that Ruger, you may decide that this is as far as the AR platform can go.  It competes with the M-4, but weighs 8 lbs, unloaded.  The quad rail is a big weight culprit, but the chrome lined bore is a big attraction.  I do not like being limited to a 16" barrel, as muzzle flash will be a problem with most loads, and velocity will be limited to about 2,800 fps.  I just found this:
http:///www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/Model_R-25.asp - http:///www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/Model_R-25.asp   This one is a gas piston AR action in .243, 7/'08, or .308  Look at the R-15 on your own time!  The big advantage is the 20" barrel.  Comes with a 4 round mag, but accepts DPMS 19 rounders.
You could go on and on.  I hope we get thru the next 2 years with little real difference in our daily lives, but a whole bunch of indicators keep adding up to force us to be ready by this October.  Swine flu vaccinations that could well be designed to kill us, and the fall of the US dollar.  I'll keep accumulating .22 lr, 9mm and 12 ga. ammo.
I hope there are others watching this discussion, and learning whatever they may from it.
BTW-  I too had a .30 cal. TC, but that was in .30-30, with the 16 1/8" barrel.  One pet load for that was 35 gr. of BLC-2 with the Sierra 135 gr. single shot pistol bullet.  One of the most satisfying muzzle blasts ever witnessed!  Your suicide guy would have settled for one round.  I shot a doe with that gun once, and everything forward of the grass bag was liquid.


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: July 16 2009 at 3:55am
You can remove that stupid ten rounder easy as pie so you can start using the 30 round aftermarket magazines. Since SKS's aren't technically "Assault weapons" since they don't have the pistol grip you won't run afoul of any 922r restrictions as long as you use American mags and two American made parts. Just remove the stock and trigger assembly and reassemble without the magazine. for a detachable magazine rifle. Easy as pie!
 
I can't say I'm a fan of Ruger after the 2nd Amendment treason they pulled back when the "Assault Weapon" ban went into effect in 1994. I understand that they're under different ownership/management since then, but I've still got that whole once a traitor always a traitor stuck in my craw. Same goes for Colt and S&W. I probably wouldn't buy one based on that fact alone. Just my personal beef. Colt can, to this day, kiss my arse based on their saying they weren't going to be selling guns to civilians in 1995. Now their crap is just overpriced garbage. Numerous AR manufacturers make a far better product for half the price.
 
The 16 inch barrel only has a large muzzle flash if you've got no muzzle brake/flash hider on your barrel. I've got an AR with the Phantom flash hider and my G36 has a Vortex. Both nearly totally eliminate any flash signature even with Wolf ammo. Occasionally I'll get sparks, but I don't get fireballs like I did without a muzzle attachment at all.
 
I don't know if the SHTF there'll be many rifles laying around. There'll definately be pistols, at least in the cities, most horribly in disrepair after only a few weeks. I've got one of those 9mm Kel Tecs that take glock magazines and love it. Accurate little bastard for the simplicity of it. Plastic front sight and all. It's very good with regular Winchester White Box FMJ, but if you can get your hands on some genuine SMG ammo, that thing ROCKS.
 
The Sarge was a movie star. I have a pistol to fight my way to my rifle. Not use it to get a new one. If I know I'm going to be getting into some **** I'm bringing a rifle and a friend with a rifle to back me up.


Posted By: sparrowminded
Date Posted: March 23 2011 at 1:32am
All good points.  Since that exchange, I've found a nice little Yugo M70AB2 that comes out of the drag bag when the road gets dusty.  One thing I've been stressing with myself is to get accustomed to carrying it whenever I'm in places where I can.  Your mention of causing as much damage as possible to a bad guy makes great sense.  I put a lot of faith in Russian HP ammo, although I've seen a huge amount of discussion about that as well.
Still, I believe that the vast majority of people who feel the need to be aggressive in a SHTF situation will be very limited in their knowledge of firearms, or assault tactics.  I believe that for MOST of the time, my .22 carbine, loaded with Aguila Interceptors is more gun than most people want to deal with.  Even if they do have a Barret, they DO  NOT  want to get hit with one of those.  When you're cut off from medical treatment, you don't want to get hit by anything


Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: March 23 2011 at 8:54am
i have a couple yugo's in my stable, fine rifles and very sturdy, being built on the rpk receiver instead of the AKM.  hell i even have the RPK version of the rifle.  i prefer the standard stock to the underfolder, just because the UF's get a little loose with use.  i have an old SAR1 that i modded to use the AK100 series poly left side folder and it's a great little rifle.

  if you use a muzzle nut instead of one of the usual muzzle devices that rifle will fit in a tennis racket bag and you can have the rifle and mag in a low profile bag that no one will want to steal in an emergency situation.


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never underestimate the power of human stupidity


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 6:38pm
I recently got my greedy hands on a nice Arsenal SGL31 Ak74 from AimSurplus and to say that thing rocks is a total understatement!

THe 5.45x39 round isn't my favorite, but when I'm paying $100/1000 rounds of Russian surplus it's starting to grow on me in a big way.

That rifle is surprisingly accurate for an AK and is quite capable of 2 MOA when I've got an optic attached to it. I had it out shooting Tannerite and could nail the 4x4 inch cylinders with the first shot pretty much every time. If you're looking into AK pattern rifles, absolutely give the 5.45x39 weapons a hard look, you won't regret it. Special emphasis on the Arsenal guns as they are by far the best AK's made. See if you can check out an Arsenal AK the next time you're at the fun store.


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Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley


Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 6:42pm
they are very nice.. are you on www.theakforum.net   

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never underestimate the power of human stupidity


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 9:48pm
AR15.com I'm under the same name. I think they also do AK47.net. It's the biggest gun related site in existence.

I've never been to TheAKForum.


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Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley


Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 9:51pm
that forum is a really nice place, I'm on afrcom, but not that often anymore.  gunboards, PAFOA and a few others nowadays.

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never underestimate the power of human stupidity


Posted By: detpat
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 9:51pm
my handle on most boards is MPI

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never underestimate the power of human stupidity


Posted By: zoe17
Date Posted: April 14 2013 at 6:53pm
Gravedig for the H7N9 pandemic time frame for weapons/ammo discussion.


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: April 14 2013 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by zoe17 zoe17 wrote:

Gravedig for the H7N9 pandemic time frame for weapons/ammo discussion.


If you've got any questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them. Smile


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Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley



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