Western Forces prepare to attack Iran

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Topic: Western Forces prepare to attack Iran

Posted By: Guests
Subject: Western Forces prepare to attack Iran
Date Posted: August 10 2008 at 4:52am

The plan to launch an attack on Iran has already been constructed and it is only a matter of time until it occurs. . Multiple options have been discussed and currently the Iran military is readying itself for a something as dismal as a nuclear strike upon its enrichment facilities. It is a rather traditional rattling of sabers when we mobilize in carrier forces, "exercises" which assemble a truly impressive Armada. The reality is that like so many moves throughout history, what would be, what will be he consequences as the last ploy of an overt effort to frighten the country of Iran into submission?

Ron Paul has stated we a poised for an imminent attack.

Rep. Ron Paul (R-Tex.) has warned millions of radio listeners that the United States is heading into an illegal attack on Iran, stating his amazement at members of Congress who have openly voiced support for a criminal nuclear strike.

"If we do (attack) it is going to be a disaster," the congressman told the Alex Jones radio show. "I was astounded to see on one of the networks the other day that the debate was not are we going to attack, but are we going to attack before or after the election?" Paul continued.

Paul recently voiced concern over House Congressional Resolution 362 which he has dubbed a "virtual Iran war resolution."

"If that comes up it is demanding that the president [put in place] an absolute blockade of the entire country of Iran, and punish any country or any business group around the world if they trade with Iran," Paul told listeners.

Experts have predicted gas will rise to $6 per gallon if the resolution passes. Paul believes that may happen anyway, just by anticipation.

"The frightening thing is they say they are taking no options off the table, even nuclear first strike," Paul said. Paul believes from talking with his contacts in and around Congress that a strike on Iran has already been green-lighted.

Medclinician

comment: It should be understood by the reader that there is no statement here of opinion as to whether this attack should be carried out. The most pressing and to be considered issue is the resulting world wide consequences of such an attack. Many voices are silent, and one voice that is not silent is Iran. Without support there is little doubt that Iran could withstand such a mobilization of force alone. However, the question is what will be the reaction of the Muslim world, as we near a precipice equivalent to the Cuban missile crisis. We hovered about North Korea when they conducted their missile tests and it has been clearly stated that Iran will not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons because it would destabilize the situation in th Middle East.

The question at this point is what is it the sentiment of the American and world public. Is there general support for this or not, or is everyone afraid to speak at all.

Replies:

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 10 2008 at 5:06am

Iran says:

http://tehrantimes.com/Index_view.asp?code=174423 - http://tehrantimes.com/Index_view.asp?code=174423

War threat on Iran is a propaganda campaign: UN envoy
Tehran Times Political Desk

TEHRAN, Aug. 2 (MNA) – Iran’s ambassador to the United Nations Mohammad Khazaii on Wednesday dismissed as a propaganda campaign rumors that the U.S. might launch a military strike on Iran’s nuclear installations.

“At the moment such an imprudent action has no supporter inside the United States,” Khazaii told the Mehr News Agency on the sidelines of the 15th meeting of Non-Aligned Movement foreign ministers in Tehran.

On July 19, Iranian nuclear negotiator Saeed Jalili held talks in Geneva with EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana over ending Iran’s nuclear standoff with the West.

U.S. Undersecretary of State William Burns also participated in the negotiations. It was the highest level of diplomatic contact between Iran and the United States in 30 years.

Also present were representatives from the four other permanent members of the UN Security Council and Germany.

Khazaii denied rumors that after the negotiations the major powers gave Iran a two-week time to answer calls to rein in its nuclear program or face “punitive measures”.

“Nuclear negotiations will continue but at the moment we cannot say whether the Security Council will hold a meeting on Iran’s nuclear issue,” he stated.

Russia, China, the United States, Britain, France, and Germany last month offered Iran an updated package of incentives in return for a halt to Tehran’s uranium enrichment program.

The package, which is a follow-up of an original proposal in 2006, offers nuclear cooperation and wider trade in aircraft, energy, high technology, and agriculture.

The Islamic Republic has also presented its own package of proposals on ways to address international challenges, including the threat of nuclear proliferation, and has said it has found common ground between the two separate packages.

Iran has repeatedly ruled out suspending uranium enrichment as a precondition for talks with the major powers and has said it will hold talks “only on common points”.

The United Nations has so far imposed three rounds of sanctions on the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Khazaii accused certain Western powers of playing politics on Iran’s nuclear dossier, saying, “Some countries which have special status in the international community are making strenuous efforts to weaken the International Atomic Energy Agency in order to pursue their illegal objectives.”

He also said the implementation of UN Security Council resolutions against Iran is not “mandatory”. “The Security Council has so far issued hundreds of resolutions which different countries do not abide by.”

“Tens of resolutions have been issued against Israel but this regime has not observed any of them… Whatever the Security Council issues under political pressure should not necessarily be implemented… Iran’s constructive and powerful role in the region cannot be easily ignored and we do not accept a decision that some countries have made.”

----------Permanent seat for Islamic states

Elsewhere in his remarks, Khazaii said Iran is discussing a proposal at Organization of the Islamic Countries that the Islamic states be given a permanent seat at the UN Security Council.

“This issue should be pursued in coordination with other Islamic states at the United Nations. Islamic nations should have a loudspeaker at the international venues. Currently three Islamic countries of Indonesia, Libya, and Burkina Faso are sitting on the Security Council but Indonesia’s term will end in October.”

Iran is also seeking to gain a non-permanent seat at the Security Council as the representative of Asia in the upcoming vote at the United Nations in a bid to show to the world that the Security Council’s structure needs amendment, he stated.

UN non-permanent members are elected by the General Assembly for a two-year term starting on January 1, with five replaced each year. The members are chosen by regional groups and confirmed by the UN General Assembly.

“It is not logical that the permanent members which are five countries have the authority to take certain actions. This structure should be revised,” Khazaii commented.

BA/PA END MN

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 10 2008 at 5:19am

This thread has been posted in the discussion session because it is completely unrelated to Avian Bird Flu. It is a world event topic of extreme interest but heavily diverts attention away from a growing spread of Avian and related flu mutations throughout the world.

With a flu season coming in which we may have no effective vaccine, and which may be considerably nasty, we move a great deal of military might to the Persian Gulf when in the event of a Pandemic it might be needed here in our own shores.

This is disturbing. I do not like to be pulled into these political and military topics. Yet we are at a flash point. in the next 48-72 hours there may be war. The question of all questions is who will support Iran on the world stage? Has it already been decided? How will the Muslims deal with a direct attack on one of their countries which is not currently attacking openly any other sovereign nation. This is a pre-emptive strike if it occurs. It places the U.S. in direct alliance with Israel against an Arab nation. Will this set off a Jihad?

The Iranians have in their possession extremely advanced technology from North Korea, China, and Russia. There are skimmer missiles which because of speed and design pose a threat to our carriers in the area. A war would not plunge us into a depression would it? Almost every major American economic boom has been proceeded by a major war.

Another question the few will discuss. Are the Arab nations so satiated by the soaring prices of oil that they are willing to allow this to happen? All the talk of not wanting a foreign presence in the Middle East. No doubt, money is being made in huge sums. Will the cartel sit in silence as the nuclear development sites are attack and it has not been ruled out, may even be nuked, as they rake in the greatest profits in oil in history?

I really do not feel uncomfortable in posting this thread. I think the forces that move towards Iran are sending a distinct and clear message. It is a message that we will not tolerate nuclear weapons in Iran. The question is, what will be the consequences of our actions?

MC

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 10 2008 at 6:29am

medclinician wrote:

It has been something on the table since March of 2008. The plan to launch an attack on Iran. Multiple options have been discussed and currently the Iran military is readying itself for a something as dismal as a nuclear strike upon its enrichment facilities. It is a rather traditional rattling of sabers when we mobilize in carrier forces, "exercises" which assemble a truly impressive Armada. The reality is that like so many moves throughout history, what would be, what will be he consequences as the last ploy of an overt effort to frighten the country of Iran into submission?

Ron Paul has stated we a poised for an imminent attack.

Paul recently voiced concern over House Congressional Resolution 362 which he has dubbed a "virtual Iran war resolution."

Experts have predicted gas will rise to $6 per gallon if the resolution passes. Paul believes that may happen anyway, just by anticipation.

Medclinician

comment: It should be understood by the reader that there is no statement here of opinion as to whether this attack should be carried out. The most pressing and to be considered issue is the resulting world wide consequences of such an attack. Many voices are silent, and one voice that is not silent is Iran. Without support there is little doubt that Iran could NOT withstand such a mobilization of force alone. However, the question is what will be the reaction of the Muslim world, as we near a precipice equivalent to the Cuban missile crisis. We hovered about North Korea when they conducted their missile tests and it has been clearly stated that Iran will not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons because it would destabilize the situation in th Middle East.

The question at this point is what is it the sentiment of the American and world public. Is there general support for this or not, or is everyone afraid to speak at all.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 10 2008 at 7:05am

Kinda quiet in this thread - but I am finding a lot of interesting things on the net and very very few things on mainstream media. Here are a few quotes and statements - some very uncharacteristic in the Arab world concerning the Iran crisis.
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/International/06-Aug-2008/Gaddafi-warns-Iran-of-military-humiliation -
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/International/06-Aug-2008/Gaddafi-warns-Iran-of-military-humiliation

TUNIS (AFP) - Libyan leader Moamer Gaddafi on Tuesday warned Iran that it faces military humiliation on the scale of Iraq for its refusal to respond to western powers over a nuclear impasse.
“What Iran is doing stems simply from arrogance,” Gaddafi said during a visit to Tunisia after Tehran ignored another western deadline to accept an incentives package in exchange for full transparency on its nuclear drive.
“In the event of a decision against Iran, this country will suffer the same outcome as Iraq... Iran is not any stronger than Iraq and won’t have the means to resist (a military attack) on its own,” Gaddafi said. “The challenges are greater and exceed Iran’s ability to reply,” he added, speaking on the third day of his visit.
Like Iran and Iraq before it, Libya was for years pressured by the west over its nuclear and chemical weapons ambitions and capabilities before finding common ground in 2003.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/07/AR2008080703026.html?nav=rss_nation - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/07/AR2008080703026.html?nav=rss_nation

courtesy of Washington Post

A military strike against http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/countries/iran.html?nav=el - Iran's nuclear facilities would probably only delay the country's progress toward nuclear-weapons capability, according to a study that concludes that such an attack could backfire by strengthening Tehran's resolve to acquire the bomb.

The analysis by the Washington-based Institute for Science and International Security found that Iran's uranium facilities are too widely dispersed and protected -- and, in some cases, concealed too well -- to be effectively destroyed by warplanes. And any damage to the country's nuclear program could be quickly repaired.

"Following an attack, Iran could quickly rebuild its centrifuge program in small, easily hidden facilities focused on making weapon-grade uranium for nuclear weapons," said principal author David Albright, ISIS president and a former U.N. weapons inspector.

The study, scheduled for release today, is based in part on a comparison of Iran's known nuclear facilities with http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/countries/iraq.html?nav=el - Iraq's Osirak reactor, which Israeli jets destroyed in a 1981 strike intended to curb Baghdad's nuclear ambitions. Although http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/countries/israel.html?nav=el - Israel struck a devastating blow against Iraq's program, a strike against Iran would be harder by several orders of magnitude, according to Albright and co-authors Paul Brannan and Jacqueline Shire.

The core of Iran's program is its huge uranium enrichment plant at Natanz, where thousands of machines called centrifuges create the uranium fuel used in making nuclear energy. Although Iran says its efforts are intended for peaceful energy purposes, its stocks of enriched uranium could be used to build nuclear weapons.

Last year, U.S. intelligence officials concluded that Iran had halted nuclear weapons research in 2003 but continued to expand its capabilities in ways that would allow it to develop such weapons quickly.

Despite heavy fortification, the subterranean Natanz plant could be heavily damaged in an airstrike using bunker-busting bombs or missiles. But the centrifuges could be replaced rapidly, perhaps in hidden underground facilities, the ISIS report said. Iran is known to have constructed bunkers inside mountain tunnels near Natanz and other major nuclear sites.

While Iran once relied on imported technology and parts to build its centrifuges, it is now largely self-sufficient. The manufacture of key components is dispersed among a number of government-controlled factories, while imported parts such as high-strength aluminum have been stockpiled over the past decade, the report notes.

Moreover, since 2006, when Iran began limiting access to its nuclear facilities by U.N. nuclear inspectors, Western governments can no longer say with certainty where some key facilities are located, ISIS said.

"Current knowledge of the complex is lacking," the report stated. "Without that knowledge, an attack is unlikely to significantly delay Iran's mastery of enrichment with gas centrifuges."

According to Albright, an Israeli or U.S. attack would result in broader popular support for Iran's ruling clerics and could lead Tehran to sever ties with the U.N. nuclear watchdog.

"Iran would likely launch a 'crash' program to quickly obtain nuclear weapons," Albright said in an interview. "An attack would likely leave Iran angry, more nationalistic, fed up with international inspectors and nonproliferation treaties, and more determined than ever to obtain nuclear weapons."

Medclinician

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 10 2008 at 7:31am

More data - how complex this all is... you be the judge

http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=15381 - http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=15381

http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=15381 - ISRAEL WILL MAKE RUSSIA VULNERABLE TO AIR ATTACK IF RUSSIA SELLS ANTI-AIRCRAFT MISSILE TO IRAN

7 August 2008

If Russia goes through with the sale of its most advanced anti-aircraft missile system to Iran, Israel will use an electronic warfare device now under development to neutralize it and as a result present Russia as vulnerable to air infiltrations, a top defense official has told The Jerusalem Post.

The Russian system, called the S-300, is one of the most advanced multi-target anti-aircraft-missile systems in the world today and has a reported ability to track up to 100 targets simultaneously while engaging up to 12 at the same time. It has a range of about 200 kilometers and can hit targets at altitudes of 27,000 meters.

While Russia has denied that it sold the system to Iran, Teheran claimed last year that Moscow was preparing to equip the Islamic Republic with S-300 systems. Iran already has TOR-M1 surface-to-air missiles from Russia.

Mixed media reports have emerged recently regarding the possible delivery of the system to Iran. Two weeks ago Reuters quoted a senior Israeli official who said the system would be delivered to Iran by the end of the year. In response, the Pentagon released a statement rejecting the assessment and saying that the US did not believe Iran would get it in 2008.

According to the Israeli defense official who spoke to the Post, “no one really knows yet if and when Iran will get the system.”

A top IAF officer also said this week that Israel needed to do “everything possible” to prevent the S-300 from reaching the region.

“Russia will have to think real hard before delivering this system to Iran, which is possibly on the brink of conflict with either Israel or the US, since if the system is delivered, an EW [electronic warfare] system will likely be developed to neutralize it, and if that happens it would be catastrophic not only for Iran but also for Russia,” the defense official said.

Neutralization of one of the main components of Russian air defense would be a blow to Russian national security as well as to defense exports. “No country will want to buy the system if it is proven to be ineffective,” the official said. “For these reasons, Russia may not deliver it in the end to Iran.”

Also on Thursday, Defense Minister Ehud Barak told an Italian paper that a nuclear Iran would be “dangerous to world order.”

Barak emphasized that all options for dealing with threat of a nuclear Teheran were “open and ready,” and stressed the importance of “strengthening and accelerating economic sanctions against Iran.”

“Either way, we need to keep every option open. If they provoke us, or they attack us, our army is prepared to attack and to succeed uncompromisingly,” he asserted in an interview with the daily Corriere della Sera . “It’s up to us to find the best way to get the best result with minimum damage,” Barak added.

“Iran confirmed its message when it stood against the whole world: to deceive and to reject. Their aim is to obtain an atomic bomb,” he continued.

The defense minister also spoke of the results of the Second Lebanon War, telling the Italian paper, “Two years ago, we saw the price that’s paid for a lack of an experienced leadership. Nevertheless, today we’re equipped with a good understanding to prevent this from happening again.”

He added that UN Security Council Resolution 1701 that brought an end to the war was inefficient since Hizbullah, Syria and Iran were doing what they wanted in Lebanon.

comment: just following the vapor trail - how real is the problem - how real is the threat?

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 10 2008 at 8:05am

Okay Albert _ I am pushing the bar on this one... I picked this up from Mexico and it is pretty out there. I think there may be some moderately solid data on activity in the gulf but if you feel we are getting too deep in this or any of this data might be compromising to U.S. interests in the Gulf - please pull it and the thread and I will not be feel slighted.

I am trying to follow this and as usual, I am starting to get in dataminer areas that are not on mainstream and quite honestly I feel like just before we hit Iraq - we may be poised for a strike and as such - silence may be more appropriate. We are not going to let Iran proceed. The real sticky point is how deeply Russia has its fingers in the pie. How much weapons and technology are locked in huge money deals and whatever - Russia is at war with one of "its" former provinces Georgia - there was a massive strike in Pakistan this morning by forces, and things are getting really much too busy. This will be my final post on this thread unless there are comments. My suggestion is people just lurk and read and decide what is what and the intent of posting this thread is to keep the blogger readers and those wanting data outside the mainstream media possible information.

This last post is VERY hard to pin down. It is put up by people who are not exactly pro-U.S. and therefore it is only the data on the movement of military towards the gulf possibly signally and imminent strike. The inferences of co-Israeli involvement in this is very volatile. Libya bit the bullet and stopped nuclear development and are no worse for the wear. With tensions running red hot in the Middle East we don't need any nuclear surprises or wars. However, just as Russia, just invaded Georgia and is in active war - It would not be at all a big surprise if having exhausted all peaceful moves, we imposed a blockade, Iran, infinitely unwise started a fight, and we had to finish it.

Last post for now.. let's watch and wait and see what happens -

translated from Mexico...

Reports from the Middle East are stating today that Kuwait has http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1218104233164&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull - activated its “Emergency War Plan” after being notified that 2 additional United States Navy Aircraft Carrier Groups are headed to the Gulf and Red Sea.

The Arabic news agency Moheet is reported that http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1218104233164&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull - “an unnamed American destroyer, accompanied by two Israeli naval vessels, traveled through the Suez Canal from the Mediterranean to join a US nuclear submarine accompanied by a destroyer and a supply ship that have also moved into the Mediterranean.”

The Jerusalem Post is also reporting that http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1218104233164&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull - “there are two US naval battle groups operating in the Gulf: one is an aircraft carrier group, led by the USS Abraham Lincoln, which carries some 65 fighter aircraft. The other group is headed by the USS Peleliu which maintains a variety of planes and strike helicopters.”

Russian Military Analysts report that with the addition of these new US Naval Battle Groups the American Forces now have arrayed against the Iranian Nation one of the largest naval armadas assembled by the West since World War II.

The Associated Press News Service is reporting, too, that Israel is building up its strike capabilities against Iran and is ‘ http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=284403 - confident ’ of dealing a ‘ http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=284403 - crippling attack ’ against Iran’s nuclear programme as it becomes more concerned that the Western Nations will back off from their planned attack against the Iranians.

The United States, at least for the moment, appears to be attempting to thwart another major war by threatening Iran with more sanctions, and as we can read as reported by the Associated Press News Service:

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h2MxR5fDRYJWj52pH_q0SUqRweQA - “US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice threatened Iran with more sanctions Thursday after it failed to give an adequate response to the latest bid by Western powers to induce it to freeze uranium enrichment.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h2MxR5fDRYJWj52pH_q0SUqRweQA - "Iran has a way out if they ever wish, but we will seriously pursue sanctions if they don't," Rice told Yahoo! News and the magazine Politico.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h2MxR5fDRYJWj52pH_q0SUqRweQA - "You have to hope that there are reasonable people in Iran who see this as not the way to run a country."

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h2MxR5fDRYJWj52pH_q0SUqRweQA - Tehran's latest response to a demand for the enrichment freeze in exchange for trade and technology incentives "is not a really serious answer," she said in her first comments since six world powers discussed the matter in a Wednesday conference call.”

The ‘wild card’ in these latest moves by the United States, its Western Allies and Israel, say Russian Military Reports, remains the ‘hidden’ Israeli threats against the US should it not attack Iran, and which many in the Russian Intelligence Community take to mean another September 11^th type assault upon the American Nation itself.

[Note: Following the attacks upon the US on September 11, 2001, American Intelligence services conducted one of their largest counter terror sweeps in their history which netted not Arab Terrorists, but one of the http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j121701.html - largest Israeli spy networks ever discovered. Fox News was the only US propaganda media outlet to report on this but after its first airing was ‘immediately pulled’ from the American airwaves.]

The United States has further moved to counter Russian Military responses to an attack upon Iran’s nuclear facilities, and which have been built and financed by Russia, by igniting the flames of Total War on Russia’s very doorstep in the Caucuses by turning their loose their puppet ally Georgia to begin attacks upon South Ossetia.

Russia’s Foreign Ministry issued a warning today that Georgia is http://www.reuters.com/article/europeCrisis/idUSL7463560 - preparing for war , and as South Ossetia’s capitol has http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=12930513&PageNum=0 - come under fire , and with Russia reporting that Georgian http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28601 - tanks are headed for the border , Russia has warned the West that it ‘ http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28510 - will not stand by ’ if the situation erupts into a full scale conflict.

What remains unknown at this time is how far the United States, and the West, is prepared to push our World towards Total War in its game of brinkmanship in the Middle East.

What is known, however, is that should the Americans push our World into the abyss of war, both Russia and China will retaliate as they are both determined not to ever again allow the Western Nations to have control over the World’s supply of oil.

[Ed. Note: No interviews are granted and very little personal information is given about our contributors, or their sources, to protect their safety.]

Translation to Spanish by: mailto:marubarraza@gmail.com - Sister Maru Barraza , Mazatlán, Mexico

Posted By: sjf53
Date Posted: August 10 2008 at 10:54am

Hi Med,

I had a creepy feeling watching the Olympic Ceremonies Friday Night.

I felt like I was watching the "Godfather". Remember how before a big hit there is always

a Big event. Wedding, Christening......etc, using the event as a distraction. Wasn't Putin acting as if nothing is going on all the while he knew the Georgia invasion was taking place. All the Heads of State at the "table or Ceremonies" pretending like there is nothing else going on. The tension had to be immense. US, Russia, Israel, Iran and the World. But the chess game goes on. You can be sure there are alot of back room politcs going while "The One World Dream" goes on.

Posted By: Levygoddess
Date Posted: August 10 2008 at 12:25pm

This is getting really worrisome. The war between Georgia and Russia is just the appetizer. I really feel we are fixin to be in a bad time. You know there is more behind this Georgia thing.

-------------
God put us here for a reason

Posted By: LaRo
Date Posted: August 10 2008 at 12:51pm

Just think this could all have been avoided if we would have switched to solar power years ago and we'd all be driving electric cars. It's not to late to pull the plug on oil and make the change. Where is Ron Paul when we need his leadership?

-------------
r we there yet?

Posted By: H2HPrep
Date Posted: August 10 2008 at 1:10pm

How is Georgian forces launching a surprise attack and sending a large force into the capital Tskhinvali related to solar power, electric cars and Ron Paul?

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 10 2008 at 5:48pm

FYI and retrospect - Medclinician 8-10-08 8:48 EST

Published on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 by http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JE28Ak01.html - Asia Times

Bush ‘Plans Iran Air Strike by August’

by Muhammad Cohen

NEW YORK - The George W Bush administration plans to launc http://www.commondreams.org/archive/wp-content/photos/0527_06.jpg"> 0527%2006 h an air strike against Iran within the next two months, an informed source tells Asia Times Online, echoing other reports that have surfaced in the media in the United States recently.

Two key US senators briefed on the attack planned to go public with their opposition to the move, according to the source, but their projected New York Times op-ed piece has yet to appear.

The source, a retired US career diplomat and former assistant secretary of state still active in the foreign affairs community, speaking anonymously, said last week that that the US plans an air strike against the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC). The air strike would target the headquarters of the IRGC’s elite Quds force. With an estimated strength of up to 90,000 fighters, the Quds’ stated mission is to spread Iran’s revolution of 1979 throughout the region.

Targets could include IRGC garrisons in southern and southwestern Iran, near the border with Iraq. US officials have repeatedly claimed Iran is aiding Iraqi insurgents. In January 2007, US forces raided the Iranian consulate general in Erbil, Iraq, arresting five staff members, including two Iranian diplomats it held until November. Last September, the US Senate approved a resolution by a vote of 76-22 urging President George W Bush to declare the IRGC a terrorist organization. Following this non-binding “sense of the senate” resolution, the White House declared sanctions against the Quds Force as a terrorist group in October. The Bush administration has also accused Iran of pursuing a nuclear weapons program, though most intelligence analysts say the program has been abandoned.

An attack on Iraq would fit the Bush administration’s declared policy on Iraq. Administration officials questioned directly about military action against Iran routinely assert that “all options remain on the table”.

Rockin’ and a-reelin’
Senators and the Bush administration denied the resolution and terrorist declaration were preludes to an attack on Iran. However, attacking Iran rarely seems far from some American leaders’ minds. Arizona senator and presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain recast the classic Beach Boys tune Barbara Ann as “Bomb Iran”. Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton promised “total obliteration” for Iran if it attacked Israel.

The US and Iran have a long and troubled history, even without the proposed air strike. US and British intelligence were behind attempts to unseat prime minister Mohammed Mossadeq, who nationalized Britain’s Anglo-Iranian Petroleum Company, and returned Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi to power in 1953. President Jimmy Carter’s pressure on the Shah to improve his dismal human-rights record and loosen political control helped the 1979 Islamic revolution unseat the Shah.

But the new government under Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini condemned the US as “the Great Satan” for its decades of support for the Shah and its reluctant admission into the US of the fallen monarch for cancer treatment. Students occupied the US Embassy in Teheran, holding 52 diplomats hostage for 444 days. Eight American commandos died in a failed rescue mission in 1980. The US broke diplomatic relations with Iran during the hostage holding and has yet to restore them. Iranian President Mahmud Ahmadinejad’s rhetoric often sounds lifted from the Khomeini era.

The source said the White House views the proposed air strike as a limited action to punish Iran for its involvement in Iraq. The source, an ambassador during the administration of president H W Bush, did not provide details on the types of weapons to be used in the attack, nor on the precise stage of planning at this time. It is not known whether the White House has already consulted with allies about the air strike, or if it plans to do so.

Sense in the senate
Details provided by the administration raised alarm bells on Capitol Hill, the source said. After receiving secret briefings on the planned air strike, Senator Diane Feinstein, Democrat of California, and Senator Richard Lugar, Republican of Indiana, said they would write a New York Times op-ed piece “within days”, the source said last week, to express their opposition. Feinstein is a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee and Lugar is the ranking Republican on the Foreign Relations Committee.

Senate offices were closed for the US Memorial Day holiday, so Feinstein and Lugar were not available for comment.

Given their obligations to uphold the secrecy of classified information, it is unlikely the senators would reveal the Bush administration’s plan or their knowledge of it. However, going public on the issue, even without specifics, would likely create a public groundswell of criticism that could induce the Bush administration reconsider its plan.

The proposed air strike on Iran would have huge implications for geopolitics and for the ongoing US presidential campaign. The biggest question, of course, is how would Iran respond?

Iran’s options
Iran could flex its muscles in any number of ways. It could step up support for insurgents in Iraq and for its allies throughout the Middle East. Iran aids both Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Israel’s Occupied Territories. It is also widely suspected of assisting Taliban rebels in Afghanistan.

Iran could also choose direct confrontation with the US in Iraq and/or Afghanistan, with which Iran shares a long, porous border. Iran has a fighting force of more than 500,000. Iran is also believed to have missiles capable of reaching US allies in the Gulf region.

Iran could also declare a complete or selective oil embargo on US allies. Iran is the second-largest oil exporter in the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries and fourth-largest overall. About 70% of its oil exports go to Asia. The US has barred oil imports from Iran since 1995 and restricts US companies from investing there.

China is Iran’s biggest customer for oil, and Iran buys weapons from China. Trade between the two countries hit US$20 billion last year and continues to expand. China’s reaction to an attack on Iran is also a troubling unknown for the US.

Three for the money
The Islamic world could also react strongly against a US attack against a third predominantly Muslim nation. Pakistan, which also shares a border with Iran, could face additional pressure from Islamic parties to end its cooperation with the US to fight al-Qaeda and hunt for Osama bin Laden. Turkey, another key ally, could be pushed further off its secular base. American companies, diplomatic installations and other US interests could face retaliation from governments or mobs in Muslim-majority states from Indonesia to Morocco.

A US air strike on Iran would have seismic impact on the presidential race at home, but it’s difficult to determine where the pieces would fall.

At first glance, a military attack against Iran would seem to favor McCain. The Arizona senator says the US is locked in battle across the globe with radical Islamic extremists, and he believes Iran is one of biggest instigators and supporters of the extremist tide. A strike on Iran could rally American voters to back the war effort and vote for McCain.

On the other hand, an air strike on Iran could heighten public disenchantment with Bush administration policy in the Middle East, leading to support for the Democratic candidate, whoever it is.

But an air strike will provoke reactions far beyond US voting booths. That would explain why two veteran senators, one Republican and one Democrat, were reportedly so horrified at the prospect.

Former broadcast news producer Muhammad Cohen told America’s story to the world as a US diplomat and is author of Hong Kong On Air ( http://www.hongkongonair.com/ - www.hongkongonair.com ).

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 11 2008 at 4:00am

"But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud, for man's been endowed with a mushroom-shaped cloud.
And we know for certain that some lovely day, someone will set the spark off... and we will all be blown away.
Their rioting in Africa, there's strife in Iran. What nature doesn't do to us, will be done by our fellow man."

The Kingston Trio.

M.C.

Posted By: LaRo
Date Posted: August 11 2008 at 6:55am

My thoughts: Solar power would have kept the US out of the gulf area because we wouldn't be fighting for the oil. I assume we are there for that reason and no other because there isn't anything else worth fighting for over there. Georgia has a pipeline and who controls Georgia also controls the oil pipeline. A war is usually only creating jobs to create more war material. If it isn't used up, these industries go out of business, so it's in their interest to keep the world fighting. I don't believe Ron Paul is in this group. He is not owned by this group.

-------------
r we there yet?

Posted By: waterboy
Date Posted: August 11 2008 at 8:01am

Attack on Iran is getting closer.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 11 2008 at 6:31pm

I am tempted, very tempted to comment much more as I post data. I will keep my comments to a minimum. Please do read this carefully. M.C.

Two additional javascript:void%280%29 - < name="IL_MARKER" ="">aircraft carriers are heading to the Gulf and the Red Sea, according to the Kuwaiti newspaper Kuwait Times.

Kuwait began finalizing its "emergency war plan" on being told the vessels were bound for the region.

The US Navy would neither confirm nor deny that carriers were en route. US Fifth Fleet Combined Maritime Command located in Bahrain said it could not comment due to what a spokesman termed "force-protection policy."

While the Kuwaiti daily did not name the ships it believed were heading for the Middle East, The Media Line's defense analyst said they could be the USS Theodore Roosevelt and the javascript:void%280%29 -

Within the last month, the Roosevelt completed an exercise along the US east coast focusing on communication among navies of different countries. It has since been declared ready for operational duties. The Reagan, currently with the Seventh Fleet, had just set sail from Japan.

The Seventh Fleet area of operation stretches from the East Coast of Africa to the International Date Line.

Meanwhile, the Arabic news agency Moheet reported at the end of July that an unnamed American destroyer, accompanied by two Israeli naval vessels traveled through the Suez Canal from the Mediterranean. A week earlier, a US nuclear submarine accompanied by a destroyer and a supply ship moved into the Mediterranean, according to Moheet.

Currently there are two US naval battle groups operating in the Gulf: one is an javascript:void%280%29 - < name="IL_MARKER" ="">aircraft. The other group is headed by the USS Peleliu which maintains a variety of planes and strike helicopters.

The ship movements coincide with the latest downturn in relations between Washington and Teheran. The US and Iran are at odds over Iran's nuclear program, which the Bush administration claims is aimed at producing material for nuclear weapons; however, Teheran argues it is only for power generation.

Kuwait, like other Arab countries in the Gulf, fears it will be caught in the middle should the US decide to launch an air strike against Iran if negotiations fail. The Kuwaitis are finalizing details of their security, humanitarian and vital services, the newspaper reported.

The six members of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) - Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, the UAE and Oman - lie just across the Gulf from Iran. Generals in the Iranian military have repeatedly warned that American interests in the region would be targeted if Iran is subjected to any military strike by the US or its Western allies.

Bahrain hosts the US Fifth Fleet, while there is a sizeable American base in Qatar. It is assumed the US also has military personnel in the other Gulf states, The Media Line's defense analyst said.

Iran is thought to have intelligence operatives working in the GCC states, according to Dubai-based military analysts. (There is no doubt we have a sizable intelligence presence and a substantial ground spotter presence in Iran itself which has been there for quite some time. Any more information on that would jeopardize operatives- We have an extremely efficient monitoring of all Iranian military activities, sizes and locations of current forces, and especially key target locations for missile hits to be also directed by direct ground line of site personnel.) The Iran military forces and leaders should be aware of this in their consideration of alternative paths of action and negotiation.

The standoff between the US and Iran has left the Arab nations' political leaders in something of a bind, as they were being used as pawns by Washington and Teheran, according to The Media Line analyst.

Iran has offered them economic and industrial sweeteners, while the US is boosting their defense capabilities. US President George W. Bush and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad have paid visits to the GCC states in a bid to win their support.

If the forces are given no alternative of first enforcing the blockade and any military or terrorist strikes are made against them for doing so, this will create a flash point and immediate retaliatory action. Tactical nuclear deployment has not been ruled out.

(more to follow 8/11/08) Medclinician

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 12 2008 at 7:01pm

Keep the reports coming MC, PLUS keep your comments to a MAXIMUM. I read the forums for the comments and opinions and thoughts of others. I value your comments and several others. Thank you Annie

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 13 2008 at 8:43am

أخبار من العراق المحتل

Update on the rumored armada sailing to Iran

upper text in Arabic does not display correctly

http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/08/13/iran-5/ -

August 13, 2008
Official sources state, the U.S. carrier fleet was in one of its most relaxed postures, with a single carrier - the Lincoln - in 5th Fleet, and a single carrier - the Reagan - in 7th Fleet near Japan. The rest of the "armada" was operating fairly close to the U.S. East or West Coast.

According to the U.S. Navy, on Aug. 12 the only carriers currently under way are the Lincoln and the Reagan.

The Lincoln began its current deployment on March 13, and the Reagan may replace it in the 5th Fleet (the Reagan began its deployment on May 19). It is not uncommon for these carriers to train together during a handover, but Washington has not chosen to maintain two carriers in the region since 2007.

… In sum, a surge of three carriers to the 5th Fleet would indeed be a noteworthy event, but there is not yet credible reason for concern based on the information available about the disposition of the U.S. Fleet. However, should we see the Reagan transit the Strait of Malacca and another carrier transit the Strait of Gibraltar, we will certainly have more to say at that point.

The USS Theodore Roosevelt {is} currently in its home port of Norfolk.

While the Kuwaiti daily did not name the ships it believes are heading for the Middle East, in " http://www.themedialine.org/news/news_detail.asp?NewsID=22347 - http://europebusines.blogspot.com/2008/08/massive-us-naval-armada-heads-for-iran.html - - ind the Navy’s denial http://europebusines.blogspot.com/2008/08/massive-us-naval-armada-heads-for-iran.html -

Now Debkafile adds to the fog: http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5499 -

DEBKAfile’s military sources note that the arrival of the three new American flotillas will raise to five the number of US strike forces in Middle East waters - an unprecedented build-up since the crisis erupted over Iran’s nuclear program.

This vast naval and air strength consists of more than 40 carriers, warships and submarines, some of the last nuclear-armed, opposite the Islamic Republic, a concentration last seen just before the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

… DEBKAfile’s military sources name the three US strike forces en route to the Gulf as the USS Theodore Roosevelt , the USS Ronald Reagan and the USS Iwo Jima . Already in place are the USS Abraham Lincoln in the Arabian Sea opposite Iranian shores and the USS Peleliu which is cruising in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden

need to check out DEBKA credibitility: MC

http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/08/13/iran-5/ -
Medclinician

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 13 2008 at 9:32am

.I can't hand type this and I can't copy it and I cannot verify its credibility. Use your own judgment. However the listing of ships, destinations, and over all content appear in multiple locations on the net. This is much too much for me to break through in embedded encoding which makes it nearly impossible to paste this.

I found it interesting. Many more "grounded blogs" have a lot of the same info, it is just gathered here much more clearly and easier to read.

I can make no statement of credibility of this, but it certainly is interesting.

Medclinician

http://europebusines.blogspot.com/2008/08/massive-us-naval-armada-heads-for-iran.html - http://europebusines.blogspot.com/2008/08/massive-us-naval-armada-heads-for-iran.html

Posted By: DANNYKELLEY
Date Posted: August 13 2008 at 4:31pm

Interesting is one way of putting it ,nice read Medclinician,Thank!!!

-------------
WHAT TO DO????

Posted By: coyote
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 6:27am

Med, Thanks for your Posts!

-------------
Long time lurker since day one to Member.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 10:36am

Ships readying for war.Ships guarding our front and back doors.If we attack Iran I expect the draft to quickly follow along with our Prez declaring martial law.

Look to those you know in the armed forces for real information as the news only gives half truths and misinformation.

Posted By: H2HPrep
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 3:29pm

Loose lips sink ships

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 15 2008 at 8:08am

http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-17/0808123643161157.htm - http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-17/0808123643161157.htm

Tehran - August 12

http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/menu-234/key-5808/ - Iran - http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/menu-234/key-11989/ - Georgia - http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/menu-234/key-120933/ - Qashqavi
Iran calls for an end to conflict in the Caucasus, Foreign Ministry spokesman Hassan Qashqavi said on Tuesday.

"Iran has called for ceasefire between Russia and Georgia in South Ossetia and seeks peaceful end to Caucasus conflict." Speaking to domestic and foreign reporters in weekly press briefing, he said "We are following up current developments in Caucasus and urge the belligerent parties to help resolve their disputes through peaceful means."
Continued conflict will harm the civilians in the sensitive region of Caucasus, he said.

"We hope talks between warring parties will lead to a cease-fire and restoration of security in that region."

comment: Why do they care whether Russian and Georgia are at war?

Note: August 15, 2008

http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/menu-234/key-11037/ - Germany - http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/menu-234/key-11989/ - Georgia - http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/menu-234/key-122946/ - Shevardnadze
Former Georgian president Eduard Shevardnadze warned of a new Cold War between the US and Russia, the Munich-based Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper reported Friday.

Shevardnadze said the "material basis for a new Cold War" had been created such as the stationing of 10 US missile interceptors in Poland and a reader track system in the Czech Republic.

"Of course, all of this angers Russia. That's why the danger for the beginning of a new Cold War is realistic. We have to be very vigilant," the ex-Soviet Union foreign minister added.

Shevardnadze lambasted the decision of Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili to go to war with Russia over the breakaway province of South Ossetia.

"Today one has to label it a mistake which has severely damaged Georgia and the Georgian population, and not only them. Many Ossetians and Russians have also lost their lives. That was unnecessary." Shevardnadze was president of Georgia from 1992 until 2003 when he was toppled by his successor Saakashvili on among other things corruption changes.

Medclinician

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 15 2008 at 8:42am

Background Information : Behind the mask of peaceful nuclear energy research in Iran - The Problem.

comment: once again.. just data.. and little comment.

Iran Develops Nuclear Technologies in Secret for 18 Years
A report issued by the International Atomic Energy Agency describes technological advances and a policy of concealment.

On November 10, 2003, the International Atomic Energy Agency issued a 30-page confidential report on Iran's nuclear activities. The report, which the agency sent to its board of governors and to 20 governments, reveals that for the past 18 years Iran has secretly developed technologies for producing weapon-usable highly enriched uranium and plutonium. During that time, the report says, Iran violated its Nonproliferation Treaty obligations and falsified declarations to the agency regarding safeguards required under the treaty.

11 August 2008 | Communication from Iran. The IAEA circulated a communication from the the Permanent Mission of the Islamic Republic of Iran (issued as INFCIRC/733), that forwarded the text of the "Statement on the Islamic Republic of Iran´s Nuclear Issue" adopted by the XV Ministerial Conference of the Non-Aligned Movement.

http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/Focus/IaeaIran/ - http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/Focus/IaeaIran/
International Atomic Energy Agency

Despite these findings, the report goes on to say that no evidence exists of a current weapons project in Iran, a conclusion that NRDC's nuclear experts dispute. "It's dumbfounding that the IAEA, after saying that Iran for 18 years had a secret effort to enrich uranium and separate plutonium, would turn around and say there was no evidence of a nuclear weapons program," said NRDC nuclear program director Tom Cochran in an interview with The New York Times. "If that's not evidence, I don't know what is."

Is it a valid statement that Iran really needs to develop nuclear energy power plants to supply energy for its country?

From an energy perspective, the United States has cast aspersions on Iran's commitment to a legitimate nuclear energy program, given Iran's preponderant oil and natural gas reserves. Iran is endowed with 92.86 billion of proven crude oil reserves (circa 1994), equivalent to 9.3% of the world's total reserves. It is estimated that Iran's oil reserves have a natural life of 72 years, according to 1993 production statistics. Iran also possesses 73 billion cubic feet of natural gas, which is second only to Russia in the ownership of gas reserves. Since natural gas is much easier and cheaper to develop for energy purposes than nuclear energy, U.S. analysts doubt whether Iran needs its nuclear reactors from Russia.

Medclinician

Posted By: endman
Date Posted: August 15 2008 at 10:41am

The War in achieved a couple of objectives that were beneficial for the current US foreign policies

   1 Russia is back to be a Bad Guy
   2 Poland got scared and signed the missile deal
   3 Ukraine is now looking more and more towards NATO
   4 The two breakaway Georgian republics will be patrolled by the international peace keepers
   5 US did not get involved militarily because they have a bigger fish to fry Iran

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 8:44am

endman wrote:

The War in achieved a couple of objectives that were beneficial for the current US foreign policies

   1 Russia is back to be a Bad Guy
   2 Poland got scared and signed the missile deal
   3 Ukraine is now looking more and more towards NATO
   4 The two breakaway Georgian republics will be patrolled by the international peace keepers
   5 US did not get involved militarily because they have a bigger fish to fry Iran

Well said. Medclinician

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 9:32am

Hi,

just found this.

Another False Iran Alarm

Jeff Huber | June 03, 2008

Excerpts-

"...So this guy with an odd name writes an article in the http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JE28Ak01.html - Asia Times that says Bush plans to run an air strike on Iran by August. Do we ignore it or do we start squirreling away canned pears in the family fallout shelter?

..."I hope his goofiness helps him sell a lot of books, but I sure wish he hadn't written his stupid article on Iran for Asia Times, and I wish his editor buddy at Asia Times had said, "Interesting, but we can't use this just now. I'm sure you can find other ways to promote your novel."

source

http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,169056,00.html - http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,169056,00.html

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 1:00pm

Mary08 wrote:

Hi,

Another False Iran Alarm

Jeff Huber | June 03, 2008

Excerpts-

"...So this guy with an odd name writes an article in the http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JE28Ak01.html - Asia Times, and I wish his editor buddy at Asia Times had said, "Interesting, but we can't use this just now. I'm sure you can find other ways to promote your novel."

source

http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,169056,00.html - http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,169056,00.html

_____________________________________________

Of course this type of data release had to occur. It is a typical slam dunk which is very well thought out effort to destroy the credibility of hundreds of pages of research and solid information.

1) Destroy the credibility of the source
2) Allude to the fact that the information is intensionally misleading for monetary gain.
3) Ignore the solid base of credible authorities in world politics and rather indisputable facts that in fact, nuclear weapons technology has been developed for the past 18 years while elusively avoiding international inspection teams from raising a red flag. The current inspection system is not an effective deterrent or preventive measure to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons to unstable countries or terrorists groups.

You do not use centrifuges to develop weapons grade plutonium for peaceful atomic energy use. You do not have any "secret" sites which cannot be inspected if what you are doing is simply creating nuclear reactors for energy.

The slam dunk is based on the final effect on the reader. That is despite all that has been read it is the last sentence or statement that will stick with the average reader. Like the hook in a song or last oration to a jury before a verdict.

Facts are:

Whatever was posted under whatever name, the United States has avoided a military involvement in a Russian armed invasion in Georgia.

The hard core situation of the impending invasion of Iran has existed since plans were made in March of 2008 by Israel that Iran could not be allowed to develop a nuclear weapon that could be fired at Israel. This is widely documented in fiery rhetoric which can be easily researched on the net. If some action were not taken to stop Iran's nuclear program, a blockade would ensue. The specter loomed of a possible Russian escort of oil laden Iranian ships. Russia and China are involved with Iran for huge amounts of money and far reaching nuclear development contracts as well as oil lines running from Iran to Russia. The scenario of American, British, and French vessels attempting to enforce a UN mandated blockade (even though it would not pass due to Russian veto power) would present the world with a very dangerous situation. And there is no way possible the American military and other Western allies would not keep or maintain a carrier and nuclear submarine presence in the Gulf.

I consider the readers of this site to be intelligent, adult, and persons capable of separating truth from speculation.

In this case it is impossible to single out a single source or post to invalidate, because basically there is a general consensus among the government, military, and also the U.N. there is a problem and a stalling Iran which must face a physical ultimatum having exhausted all other negotiation attempts. Thus proposing an embargo to persuade Iran to cease its pursuit of a nuclear weapon, cease actions focused on manufacturing weapons grade plutonium, and submit to inspections which could verify without asking it to stop its peaceful nuclear energy development.

The greatest amount of money that will be and has been made by the current Gulf War situation, is the sale of high technology weapons and over a billion dollars worth of items from Russia and China to Iran. That tends to influence one's perspective in terms of loyalties and who will protect who if there is an actual confrontation.

The topic and question still remains the same. Either Western forces attack if negotiations fail, or Israeli forces will. If the Israeli forces attack, this will very likely set up a fierce Islamic backlash which could destabilize the entire region. There are already active plans for a limited and surgical strike by several country on Iran's nuclear development facilities. If Iran does not cease development, it is highly likely one will occur. Two facilities, one which is frequently referenced which would be the target of the target.

As far as squirreling away pears in shelters, since this is an Avian Flu Talk site, I think that many people already have been storing food, water, and other supplies in the event of a Pandemic.

Looking at the state of the world, the economy, the natural and unnatural disaster we have had and those which could occur, this is common sense for the survival and practical planning for oneself and ones family.

If there is no situation and it is not a threat - there will be no more data to post of a situation growing worse. So much the better.

note: link formerly given appears too dated to be relevant. Although content supports the post - and is mainstream - we need a more current link.

Medclinician

Posted By: RICHARD-FL
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 3:52pm

I did not read everything on gthis subject, but there was an error on the first page The article having two carrier groups in the IO.

The USS Peleliu (LHA-5) is a Tarawa-class amphibious assault ship of the United States Navy. It is part of what is called the "Gator Navy" IT has a most of a battalion of Marines on board with a composite squadron of aircraft which include about 16 aircraft, Ah-1T, UH-1N, CV-22, CH-53E Helicopters, and AV-8B Harrier II Jump Jets. It serves with four to eight other ships to make up an amphibious task force. IT IS NOT A CARRIER.

I served on board carriers 4 years and LPH/LHA amphibious assault ships an additional 2 years. There is no way to launch or recover jets other then the AV-8B. It is a helicopter platform.

OK those are facts.

-------------
"...No man is an island on to himself..." Words to remember

RICHARD-FL

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 5:27pm

First, do understand the posting of this data on this thread is to encourage discussion, verification, and input from readers. Now that the dust is settling as this has hit the net, the impact is being felt.

This is an article today from a mainstream media source - UPI

It is from a UPI contributing editor, and the next phase of this presentation of some rather intense data is discuss and verify it. Starting here:
http://www.metimes.com/Security/2008/08/11/analysis_is_war_in_the_gulf_air/ca8a/ -
http://www.metimes.com/Security/2008/08/11/analysis_is_war_in_the_gulf_air/ca8a/

everything posted on this thread is open for verification and discussion. Since the weakest link of course is the post with very specific information on who was at Operation Brimstone, a Naval maneuver which was thought to possibly signal an impending blockage of Iran which would trigger either a further attack or response from Russia - first the data must extend beyond this publication which is the most vulnerable to attack. Anyone posting alone this type of data is going to get hit. So let's move to something a little more solid.

WASHINGTON, Aug. 11 (UPI) -- No sooner had Operation Brimstone ended -- a mega joint U.S., British and French naval exercise held in the Atlantic Ocean where the allies practiced enforcing an eventual blockade on Iran -- when, according to numerous reports, the armada set sail for the Gulf waters -- and a potential showdown with Iran.
The move comes shortly after the European Union issued a decree Friday authorizing the imposition of stronger sanctions against Iran, on top of existing U.N. Security Council sanctions, over its refusal to back down from its controversial nuclear program.
Leading the joint naval task force is the nuclear-powered carrier the USS Theodore Roosevelt and its Carrier Strike Group Two; besides its 80-plus combat planes the Roosevelt normally transports, it is carrying an additional load of French Naval Rafale fighter jets from the French carrier Charles de Gaulle, currently in dry dock.
Also reported heading toward Iran is another nuclear-powered carrier, the USS Ronald Reagan and its Carrier Strike Group Seven; the USS Iwo Jima, the Royal Navy aircraft carrier HMS Ark Royal and a number of French warships, including the nuclear hunter-killer submarine Amethyste.
Once on site, the joint naval force in the Persian Gulf region will be joining two other U.S. naval battle groups already in position: the USS Abraham Lincoln and the USS Peleliu; the Lincoln with its carrier strike group and the latter with an expeditionary strike group.
Meanwhile, Tehran seems undeterred, saying it will not back down on its nuclear stance, regardless of the threat of stricter sanctions, an Iranian http://www.metimes.com/Security/2008/08/11/analysis_is_war_in_the_gulf_air/ca8a/# - government spokesman said Sunday.
And a European diplomat was quoted as saying that Britain, the United States and France could impose sanctions that go beyond what is called for by the United Nations, in essence giving weight to the formidable armada currently heading toward Iran.
"It is important that our country is ready to insist on its rights under any conditions," Iranian spokesman Gholam-Hossein Elham was quoted by the Iranian Students' News Agency. "Our stance would not change with sanctions or the threat of sanctions," added the spokesman.
Led by the United States and leading EU members Britain, France and Germany and supported by China and Russia, all have tried to persuade Iran to freeze its uranium enrichment program.
Expecting a formal reply from Iran, the six nations leading the charge against Iran's nuclear ambitions were disappointed when the much awaited reply was a non-committal one-page letter, despite a promise from Iran that it would provide a "clear response."
The deployment of the multinational naval task force is the largest show of military power from the United States and allied countries to assemble around the strategic waters of the Persian Gulf since the First and Second Gulf wars.
The object of the naval deployment would be to enforce an eventual blockade on Iran, if, as expected by many observers, current negotiations with the Islamic republic over its insistence to pursue enrichment of uranium yield no results.
For Iran, however, a naval blockade preventing it from importing refined oil would have devastating effects on its economy, virtually crippling the Islamic republic's infrastructure. Although Iran is a major oil producer and exporter, the country lacks refining facilities, having to re-import its own oil once refined.
Iran's oil -- both the exported crude as well as the returning refined product -- passes through the strategic Strait of Hormuz, controlled by Iran on one side and the Sultanate of Oman -- a U.S. ally -- on the other. The strait is about 30 miles wide at its narrowest point, making it easy to control, but at the same time placing Western naval vessels within easy reach of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards' fast-moving light craft which could be used by Iranian suicide bombers.
Iranian Parliamentary Deputy Alaeddin Boroujerdi said imposing new EU sanctions against the Islamic Republic will "damage" the West, Iran's Press TV reported. "Any measure by the European Union ahead of the end of talks between Iran and the five Security Council veto holders plus Germany will be unacceptable," Boroujerdi, the head of the Majlis National Security and Foreign Policy Commission, told the Islamic Republic News Agency. The Iranian MP said Iran and the EU enjoy a high level of trade and economic cooperation and added sanctions would have adverse consequences on their positive mutual ties.
Boroujerdi asked Javier Solana, the EU foreign policy chief, to hold a second round of talks with Iran.
Iran is now playing for time, hoping to ride out the remaining 160-plus days of the George W. Bush presidency. The question now is whether the Western powers will blink or call Iran's bluff.
--
(Claude Salhani is editor of the Middle East Times.)
This is not the article mentioned at all and appears to be from UPI.

reference - military unclassified - Operation Brimstone
http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/showphoto.php/photo/33186 -
http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/showphoto.php/photo/33186

Congress Blog

http://www.congresscheck.com/2008/07/22/operation-brimstone-preparing-for-wwiii/ - http://www.congresscheck.com/2008/07/22/operation-brimstone-preparing-for-wwiii/

In order to enforce the seriousness of the U.S.-EU position against Iran with the threat of serious sanctions Debka reports a dozen warships from the U.S.-UK-France and a Brazilian frigate began ten days of maneuvers Monday in the Atlantic off the U.S. coast to practice the blockading of Iran’s coast in the Strait of Hormuz.

The exercises have been called "Operation Brimstone" and are lead by the USS Theodore Rooselvelt Carrier Strike group and the USS Iwo Jima Expedtionary Strike Group which carries ground forces trained in operating in shallow coastal-littoral waters and the seizure of islands like the ones in the Strait of Hormuz, Qeshm for example. The narrow island is about fifty miles long and just a few miles off Bandar Abbas believed to be the headquarters of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) and the small islands in the strait are manned by Revolutionary Guard Marines. [ http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5452 - DEBKA ]

Knesset -The IRGC will no doubt have Iranian air and naval support as the combined U.S.-EU forces attempt to enforce a blockade intended to target shipments of benzene and other refined oil products as they head for Iranian ports. Iran does not have much oil refining capacity and therefore has to import 40% of its benzene.

France24 recorded British Prime Minister Gordon Brown’s speech in front of Israel’s Knesset in Jerusalem in which he reinforced the two week sanctions ultimatum by EU foreign policy representative Javier Solana and U.S. Secretary of State Dr. Condoleezza Rice, "Iran now has a clear choice to make: suspend its nuclear programme and accept our offer of negotiations or face growing isolation and the collective response not of just one nation but of all nations round the world. Just as we heave led the work of three mandatory sanctions resolutions of the UN, the UK will continue to lead-with the United States and our European Union partners-in our determination to prevent an Iranian nuclear weapons programme

More data to follow.

Medclinician

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 5:47pm

hi Med...

This article was on Debkafile - Iran was given a two week ultimatum, Iran buried the ball...and it was decided to set up a blokade. and they held exercises off our east coast in prep of the blockade. They are not going to let in certain cargo .

.........................

July 28, 2008

Excerpt from http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5452 - http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5452

The penalty of withholding refined oil products from Iran would be exercised by means of a partial international naval blockade of its Gulf ports.

Taking part in the 10-day exercise in the Atlantic Ocean are more than a dozen ships, including the US carrier strike group Theodore Roosevelt and expeditionary strike group Iwo Jima; the French submarine Amethyste, and the British HMS Illustrious Carrier Strike Group, as well as a Brazilian frigate.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 6:15pm

So far it seems apparent, and more links could be provided there was an Operation Brimstone which was participated in by multiple countries and possibly this was a dress rehearsal of a possible blockade option if after what limit of reasonable negotiations had been exhausted measures were to be taken. Of course, there would be sanctions. But sanctions without some sort of enforcement would be weak.

Our next question is this. Did this happen?

Participating in the Operation Brimstone maneuvers is the British HMS Illustrious Carrier Strike Group and the French submarine Amethyste. There are also French Rafale fighter jets on board the Theodore Roosevelt alongside U.S. aircraft. In addition to preventing benzene from arriving Operation Brimstone is also intended to prevent Iran’s attacks on oil shipping leaving the Persian Gulf for world ports.

After a briefing by Under Secretary of State William Burns, who took part in the Geneva negotiations, Secretary of State Rice met in Abu Dhabi the representatives of the six Gulf Cooperation Council states and officials from Egypt-Jordan-Iraq.

Pentagon - GoNavy.jp not only mentions these maneuvers but seems to indicate the carrier USS Abraham Lincoln is still on station in the North Arabian Sea and if so could be used in support of the blockade. These maneuvers are due to end July 31 just two days before the end of the ultimatum delivered by the U.S.-EU. [ http://www.gonavy.jp/CVLocation.html - GONAVY ]

http://www.gonavy.jp/CVLocation.html - http://www.gonavy.jp/CVLocation.html

This is an unclassified on the net webpage. Before posting it was checked to be sure that no current (today) locations of any of the vessels were listed. Does this concur? Check the data.

If this site link is a problem or is listing data which should not be on the net - then it is suggested the link be deleted from this post and appropriate authorities remove the site or request it be removed from the country hosting it. If it cannot be removed, then delete the link here.

IMPORTANT NOTE:

Following the initial reports and data - officials have stated this information was mistaken and incorrect. In the interest of accuracy this link leads to the " amended" locations as well as extensive comments.

Shortly after this article was released on August 13, US military
sources as well as Stratfor ( a Strategic Studies Think Tank) stated
that the various press reports (UPI, Middle East Times, Kuwait Times,
Debka) regarding the naval deployment to the Middle East were incorrect.

According to the press reports (see UPI, August 11, 2008), the war ships
involved in the "Operation Brimstone" war games off the US North
Atlantic coast, had set sail for the Middle East. This information is
apparently incorrect, according to the US Navy and Stratfor.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southnews/message/6921 - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southnews/message/6921

Since this data and these comments are likely to be posted anyway- this will make it easier to note the changes. Why was incorrect data sent to UPI, Middle East Times, Kuwait Times, and Debka?

Was this for security reasons? With our current level of satellite surveillance and those of other nations it would seem logical that the movements of large extremely visiable above water carriers could easily be monitored by satellite.

Thus, though we have posted data which is supported by four mainstream news sources, not simple one rogue data poster, the initial accuracy in terms of what was on the net can be verified.

It would be a breach of security for a military individual to state the location of his force or vessel, and therefore it really would not be inappropriate but a breach for any member of the military to state "it could not be there because I was on it and it was there."

Only the general and published what appears to be a fact item that there was an Operation Brimstone and it was run to simulate a blockade by multiple nations had been stated by 4 major news sources, so was certain public domain and open and unclassified knowledge.

Ironically, the flashpoint did not happen in this case in the Gulf. Instead, and for reasons perhaps one should not analyze to openly here, Russia decided to send tanks into Georgia and the U.S. decided to not become militarily involved. It has been stated earlier in this thread that several military objectives and other plusses have been the result of this series of scenarios and conflicts.

If and when a blockade (if ever) is set up around Iran it will be mainstream news very quickly. The pre-emptive shuffling of ships in anticipation of armed conflict, whether or not a an attack is in progress, and the announcement to mainstream media, makes it a topic of open discussion on the Internet.

Medclinician

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 6:19pm

Mary08 wrote:

hi Med...

.........................

July 28, 2008

Excerpt from http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5452 - http://

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 7:01pm

me too :)

So I'm wondering when this blockade will happen and how close will we get and what will the reaction of the Iranians be? Isn't this how Russia drove Georgia nuts?

They kept up the in your face stuff for a long time until Georgia attacked, then they were at the ready right there waiting to rush over into Georgia just as Pres. Saakashvili related.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 11:54pm

Ok so let us look at this Russia is going to be bad again, we have Arab terrorists who would like to see us all be Muslim, we have always had to save Europe from itself, and we depend on 70% of our oil from somewhere else.

We have a lot to think about...the world is not going to be peacful in the 21st. century. It all is about Three Things...Money, Power and Religion.

Think about it!

Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 6:02am

TheWalkinDude wrote:

Ships readying for war.Ships guarding our front and back doors.If we attack Iran I expect the draft to quickly follow along with our Prez declaring martial law.

Look to those you know in the armed forces for real information as the news only gives half truths and misinformation.

There's never going to be a draft again, don't be rediculous.

I'm in the military and I don't ever want to have to rely on people that might not want to be there. There's a reason that we've got the best, most professional, smartest military the world has ever known: We don't have any dumbass conscripts to screw it all up! The military even is totally against conscription as it's not like we're getting the best and brightest through these programs. The US military can stand toe to toe with any other country's military and come out on top. I like that situation, and you should too.

When you start conscripting people, especially nowadays, you forment a situation where you have a near revolt. It would be an absolute political nightmare. Think George W. took a licking over the Iraq war? Let a sitting president start talking about drafting people for anything less than a war against another superpower or the US is getting invaded. He'd be instantly impeached, quite possibly be executed, and his party would never hold political power again.

Martial law? ROFL! Why? If the Muslim cowards started killing civilians in the US they'd be met with levels of persecution unknown since WWII.

I'm getting sent to Iraq in September, they didn't give me a specific date until four days ago. They don't tell me anything more than what you could figure out from looking at the internet or watching television.

Posted By: SouthTexas
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 6:23am

T.,

Thank you for your service --- and your posts.

-------------
The Lord be magnified.

Posted By: Lone Wolf
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 6:43pm

http://www.debka.com/index1.php - http://www.debka.com/index1.php



http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5514 - Iran now says "dummy satellite" into orbit. Israel concerned by missile capability DEBKAfile Special Report August 17, 2008, 9:48 PM (GMT+02:00) Iran puts satellite carrier in space The head of Iran’s aerospace program qualified Tehran’s earlier announcement that its first home-made communications was launched Sunday, Aug. 17. Reza Taghizadeh said: “The Safir satellite carrier was launched today and for the first time we successfully launched a dummy satellite into orbit.” Earlier, the Iranian news network IRNN showed footage of what it called a domestically-manufactured communications satellite named Safir-e Omid being launched. DEBKAfile's military sources stress that confirmation of Iran’s successful launch would represent a strategic breakthrough for Tehran’s long-range missile delivery capability, possibly armed with nuclear warheads The head of Iran’s aerospace program qualified Tehran’s earlier announcement that its first home-made communications was launched Sunday, Aug. 17. Reza Taghizadeh said: “The Safir satellite carrier was launched today and for the first time we successfully launched a dummy satellite into orbit.” Earlier, the Iranian news network IRNN showed footage of what it called a domestically-manufactured communications satellite named Safir-e Omid being launched in darkness, accompanied by patriotic hymns. DEBKAfile reports form one Iranian source that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad personally recited the countdown. Our military sources stress that confirmation of Iran’s successful launch would represent a strategic breakthrough, testifying to Tehran’s long-range missile delivery capability, possibly armed with nuclear warheads, to distances of thousands of kilometers, against Israel and beyond; Europe and parts of Asia would also be in range. The missile program has been advancing in parallel to Iran’s drive for a nuclear weapon. Iran would also have paved the way for spy satellites. If verified, Iran’s space achievement would offset one of Israel’s prime military assets, its superiority in space technology. According to our sources, Tehran caught Israel, the United States and both their undercover agencies by surprise. They knew Iran was working on a space program but not how close the Iranians were to placing a satellite in orbit. Our sources believe that the capsule was boosted by the Shehab-5 missile, whose range the Iranians boast is up to 5,000 km and, according to some military experts, reaches 7,000 km. The Islamic Republic’s reported feat comes at a bad time for Moscow internationally. The Russians emphatically dismiss America’s argument for installing missile interceptors in Poland as a shield against Iranian ballistic missile attack, claiming they were aimed at Russia. The Kremlin accuses the Bush administration using this false claim as a pretext, because Iran had not so far developed a ballistic threat. Now, that proof may have been provided Sunday, Moscow will have to reconsider its position.

Posted By: endman
Date Posted: August 18 2008 at 12:02pm

http://www.allthingsbeautiful.com/photos/uncategorized/the_iran_oil_corridor.gif - http://www.allthingsbeautiful.com/photos/uncategorized/the_iran_oil_corridor.gif

Just look at all this oil in Iran its looks like its more that Saudi Arabia has

And Russians are only few hundreds of miles from major oil fields in Azerbaijan
What I think Russians are telling US that if we going to go after Iranian oil they will try to grab republics of Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan

Posted By: Tadeo
Date Posted: August 18 2008 at 10:37pm

Hey Turboguy, if you need someone to babysit your guns while you're in Iraq just ship them over.

p.s. If you happen to see any Kalashnikov's lying around that nobody wants well......you know.

-------------
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson.

Posted By: gypsy
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 12:10am

Turbo..........saying "There is never going to be a draft again".......................Never say never!! In a National crises .............The U.S. would use the draft again!

Posted By: Pookey
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 6:45am

Turbo, take care over there, Godspeed and check in with us from time to time. And we thank you for your service to us and our country.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 7:48am

Mary08 wrote:

me too :)

So I'm wondering when this blockade will happen and how close will we get and what will the reaction of the Iranians be? Isn't this how Russia drove Georgia nuts?

They kept up the in your face stuff for a long time until Georgia attacked, then they were at the ready right there waiting to rush over into Georgia just as Pres. Saakashvili related.

see next post
Medclinicain

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 7:53am

medclinician wrote:

Mary08 wrote:

me too :)

So I'm wondering when this blockade will happen and how close will we get and what will the reaction of the Iranians be? Isn't this how Russia drove Georgia nuts?

They kept up the in your face stuff for a long time until Georgia attacked, then they were at the ready right there waiting to rush over into Georgia just as Pres. Saakashvili related.

You might notice a resounding snip in what little media attention this stirred and then silence. The invasion of Russia in Georgia had a huge effect in terms of taking attention off the Iran developing nuke crisis.

---- for those of you who caught a brief glimpse - that was "too hot to put up". Sorry. It basically goes into the extremely complex situation in Iran.

Medclinician

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 8:03am

Turboguy wrote:

TheWalkinDude wrote:

Ships readying for war.Ships guarding our front and back doors.If we attack Iran I expect the draft to quickly follow along with our Prez declaring martial law.

Look to those you know in the armed forces for real information as the news only gives half truths and misinformation.

There's never going to be a draft again, don't be ridiculous.

________________________________________

Turbo- you are preaching to the veteran choir here. In 'Nam we had people in platoons who were plucked right off the street and in less than 6 weeks out of Basic Training and maybe some had special forces training some of us got sent straight into combat; all of a sudden some kid from wherever is lighting up a cigarette in the night, or won't walk point and you wind up with your nose to the ground under heavy fire, as a buddy steps on a trip wire sets off a bomb, ambushed.

Those of us who have been in the military know that your buddies in your company or squad or platoon (whether you like some of them or not or whether some of them are totally zoned or don't want to be there) especially, is all you have except for air back up, artillery sometimes, and a radio between you and a lot of very hostile people who want you dead.

It takes courage Turbo, especially to go into one of the most dangerous types of combat and dangerous areas on the planet. My prayers are with you and we know other soldiers over there in some pretty rough places. Take it a day at time, watch your back in case someone isn't and understand few back home really will ever understand exactly what it is like - except those who have been there.

Trained and seasoned fighters make all the difference on the planet. From the time I hit basic until I left honorably after my service, we were always a team, thought and worked as a team, and we didn't do it to be nice guys. We did it to stay alive and survive to return to our loved ones. We were 101st. Take it a day at a time.

You are going to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See to it that you are not alarmed. These things must take place, but the end hasn't come yet Matthew 24:6

Medclinician

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 4:38pm

MED...

Do you mean the headline by DEBKAFILE?

Arab World Fears War may be impending

Posted By: Lone Wolf
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 5:57pm

The US government dose not need a draft. There is a executive order that in case of a national emergency all veterans to 55 years old can be called back to active service. There are a lot of us vets out there, they could even call me back, a 13 year vet at 53 years old.

Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 9:33pm

We've got jet fighters flying overhead continually, either taking off from or landing at North Island Naval Air Station. We've never seen this much activity. It's been going on until 10 o'clock the past few nights, and they come in so low you can't hold a conversation with the front door ajar. It's nearly 10 o'clock at night and since I started to write this two jets have flown over the neighborhood. The noise is incredible. They're definitely getting ready for something.

Turboguy - we've had our differences of opinion in the past, but I just wanted to wish you all the best over there, and come back safe.

-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.

Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 4:01pm

Yeah Tadeo, I'll bet you'd love to babysit my new AUG, G36, M14, or my AK's and AR15's...

gypsy wrote:

Turbo..........saying "There is never going to be a draft again".......................Never say never!! In a National crises .............The U.S. would use the draft again!

Yeah Gypsy, but that's the one and only way, and it'd have to be the big one. For instance the Yellowstone caldera going boom would fit nicely into that example, as would an avian flu outbreak.

Lone Wolf, that's the inactive reserve recall rule you're talking about. It's technically only ten years after you leave the military, but yeah you could be called back after you get out. They figure you're still reasonably proficient at your job up to ten years after you're done. I think it might be a little weird to have a pile of 55+ year old vets throwing on fashionable kevlar and heading into the fray. I don't think they're going to do that one either, unless we're getting invaded etc.

Everyone else, thanks for the support, and I'll post here if I can. This is going to be an extremely short tour. I've got some Iraqis to train and they're going to send me over for two months now, then nine come May. I'm cool with it though, two years of near tax freedom sounds pimpin' to me!

Posted By: gypsy
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 8:39pm

Turbo............just be careful in Iraq! We may have had differences.........but I wish you all the best! ...........impart some of your wisdom to Iraq's soldiers.

Russia is doing some serious saber rattling!

Who knows what happens next.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 10:05pm

Turboguy, because of you we enjoy freedom that no other people in the world have, I thank you from my heart. God Bless you and keep you under His protection.

I also agree with you that a draft will never happen unless someone directly attacks the U.S. I also agree with you that you do not want some person who does not want to be there fighting next to you.

Take care and as soon as you get back get on AFT and tell us you are home! God Bless you Turboguy!

FluMom

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 21 2008 at 5:02am

Mary08 wrote:

MED...

Do you mean the headline by DEBKAFILE?

Arab World Fears War may be impending

Mary08 wrote:

MED...

Do you mean the headline by DEBKAFILE?

Arab World Fears War may be impending

For readers not familiar with Debkafile and what we are discussing in terms of what they are putting out there:

DEBKAfile ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language - Hebrew : תיקדבקה‎) is an http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel - Israeli , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem - Jerusalem -based http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language - English language http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source - open source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_intelligence - military intelligence website with commentary and analyses on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism - terrorism , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_%28information_gathering%29 - intelligence , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security - security , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military - military and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics - political affairs in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East - Middle East .

It began in the summer of 2000, and is operated from the Jerusalem home of veteran journalists Giora Shamis and Diane Shalem.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debka.com#cite_note-JJ-0 - [1]} It has been awarded http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes - Forbes ' Best of The Web award.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debka.com#cite_note-1 - [2]} Forbes identifies the best part of the website as being its archives, but decries the fact that "most of the information is attributed to unidentified sources."

Debka has been criticized as a fringe outfit catering to conspiracy theorists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yediot_Achronot - Yediot Achronot 's investigative reporter Ronen Bergman claims that the site relies on information from sources with an agenda, such as the rightist elements of the American http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_%28United_States%29 - Republican Party , and that Israeli intelligence officials do not consider even 10 percent of the site's content to be reliable.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debka.com#cite_note-JJ-0 - [1]}

The site's operators claim that 80 percent of what Debka reports turns out to be true, and point out their 2000 prediction that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda - al-Qaeda would strike the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center - World Trade Center , and that they had warned well before the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_war_in_Lebanon - 2006 war in Lebanon that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah - Hezbollah had amassed 12,000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha - Katyusha rockets that were pointed at northern Israel.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debka.com#cite_note-JJ-0 - [1]}

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Debka.com&action=edit&section=1 - edit ] References

^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debka.com#cite_ref-JJ_0-0 - ^a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debka.com#cite_ref-JJ_0-1 - ^b http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debka.com#cite_ref-JJ_0-2 - ^c http://www.jewishjournal.com/world/article/israeli_web_site_debkacom_at_center_of_new_york_dirty_bomb_tip_20070817/ - Israeli Web site Debka.com at center of New York ‘dirty bomb’ tip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debka.com#cite_ref-1 - ^ http://www.forbes.com/bow/b2c/review.jhtml?id=6117 - Debkafile on Forbe's "Best of Web"

comment: So we have a highly controversial information source which may release media outside the media mainstream.

Medclinician

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 8:51am

http://www.metimes.com/International/2008/08/11/special_report_kuwait_readying_for_war_in_gulf/7724/ - http://www.metimes.com/International/2008/08/11/special_report_kuwait_readying_for_war_in_gulf/7724/

Congressional Initiative

The naval blockade against Iran, which is tantamount to a declaration of war, is a bipartisan project, which has tacitly been endorsed by the Democrats. In May 2008, a bill was introduced in the House of Representatives (H.CON. RES 362) that called for the enforcement of an all out economic blockade, including the encroachment of trade and the freeze of monetary transactions with the Islamic Republic:

"The President [shall] initiate an international effort to immediately and dramatically increase the economic, political, and diplomatic pressure on Iran .... prohibiting the export to Iran of all refined petroleum products; imposing stringent inspection requirements on all persons, vehicles, ships, planes, trains, and cargo entering or departing Iran; and prohibiting the international movement of all Iranian officials not involved in negotiating the suspension of Iran's nuclear program."

"[H. CON. RES. 362] urges the President, in the strongest of terms, to immediately use his existing authority to impose sanctions on the Central Bank of Iran, ... international banks which continue to conduct financial transactions with proscribed Iranian banks; ... energy companies that have invested $20,000,000 or more in the Iranian petroleum or natural gas sector in any given year since the enactment of the Iran Sanctions Act of 1996; and all companies which continue to do business with Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps." http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9468 - (See full text of H.CON RES 362) (emphasis added)

Meanwhile, H CON RES 362 has been referred to the House Foreign Affairs Committee. A similar procedure has taken place in the Senate.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 9:16am

Okay - this is another obscure piece of net data which I post as interesting and will include a link. There is a lot of specifics being thrown around as well as fairly intense "news." It is not at all improbable and has been stated that Russia would take action militarily in the Gulf. This is for interest only with no firm confirmation of content or credibility. That being said.

http://eldib.wordpress.com/2008/08/13/russia-orders-%E2%80%98destruction%E2%80%99-oBLEEPs-naval-armada-in-persian-gulf/

(okay this link is tricky - it will not tiny and you must copy and paste it to get to it)

Russia Orders Destruction of US Naval Armada in Persian Gulf

Reports in the Kremlin today are stating that Prime Minister Putin has ordered the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation to put the Volga-Urals Military District and Black Sea Fleet http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/09/russia-mobilizes-black-sea-fleet-georgian-officials-say/ - As we had previously reported on in our August 8^th report, ;Kuwait goes on war alert as Armada heads for Iran', the fears of Russian Military Analysts have been realized with the US backed puppet state of Georgia launching an unprecedented and unprovoked attack upon the Russian protected enclave of South Ossetia, and to which the latest reports have put the death toll at over 1,500 citizens of Russia and over 15 Russian Peacekeepers.

In a bid to force Russia from its planned defense of the Iranian peoples by provoking war in the Caucasus, however, the West has severely miscalculated as Putin has not only ordered the retaking of South Ossetia from the Western backed Georgian forces, but has also ordered the destruction of all oil pipelines going through Georgia to the West.on.”

These reports continue by stating that the massive US backed Naval Armada, said to be the largest assembled since Worlld War II, heading towards war with Iran will be met by both Russian and Iranian counterattacks aimed at destroying these enemy forces prior to their planned attack.

It is, also, interesting to note, that after unleashing the Israeli led puppet Georgian military forces against unarmed Russian citizens and lightly armed Russian peacekeepers, President Bush has said, "the fighting must stop and I am deeply concerned about the situation in Georgia," he said. "The United States takes this matter very seriously."T”

But, not as seriously as he claims as he had just previously instructed his Ambassador to the United Nations to veto Russia’s resolution before the Security Council that stated, and as China’s Xinhua reports: (check link - very hard to paste this data)

President Medvedev was so livid after President Bush’s refusal to commit to peace that, these reports continue, he ordered the ‘immediate and systematic’ destruction of Georgian Military Forces, ‘wherever they are located in the World’.

Georgia’s President, Mikheil Saakashvili, responded to Medvedev’s moves by declaring martial law in Georgia and ordering all Georgian troops home from Iraq, where they had been stationed providing support to the US in its war on the Muslim peoples of the World.

These latest moves by the Georgian dictator, however, are appearing too late in this war to save his troubled Nation, and as we can read from the latest battlefield updates:And, as Prime Minister Putin has just arrived in the War Region of South Ossetia, the resolve of the Worlds peace loving Nations to stop the expansion of the Western Powers though military might appears to have met its most logical first major obstacle by the awakening of a very, very angry Russian Bear from its long hibernation since the dissolution of the Soviet Empire.

(more data which will not transfer... refer to link)

[Ed. Note: (note from MC - this is extreme and inflammatory - as to suppression of data by U.S. and media) Simply trying to post another series of data and comments.. which go outside mainstream.

Posted By: H2HPrep
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 1:53pm

Everything old is new again.

Millions volunteered or were drafted for military duty during World War II. The majority of these citizen-soldiers had no idea how to conduct themselves to prevent inadvertent disclosure of important information to the enemy. To remedy this, the government established rules of conduct. The following is excerpted from a document given to each soldier as he entered the battle area.

WRITING HOME

THINK! Where does the enemy get his information -- information that can put you, and has put your comrades, adrift on an open sea: information that has lost battles and can lose more, unless you personally, vigilantly, perform your duty in SAFEGUARDING MILITARY INFORMATION?

THERE ARE TEN PROHIBITED SUBJECTS

1. Don't write military information of military units -- their location, strength, material, or equipment.

2. Don't write of military installations.

3. Don't write of transportation facilities.

4. Don't write of convoys, their routes, ports (including ports of embarkation and disembarkation), time en route, naval protection, or war incidents occurring en route.

5. Don't disclose movements of ships, naval or merchant, troops, or aircraft.

6. Don't mention plans and forecasts or orders for future operations, whether known or just your guess.

7. Don't write about the effect of enemy operations.

8. Don't tell of any casualty until released by proper authority (The Adjutant General) and then only by using the full name of the casualty.

9. Don't attempt to formulate or use a code system, cipher, or shorthand, or any other means to conceal the true meaning of your letter. Violations of this regulation will result in severe punishment.

10. Don't give your location in any way except as authorized by proper authority. Be sure nothing you write about discloses a more specific location than the one authorized.

TALK

SILENCE MEANS SECURITY -- If violation of protective measures is serious within written communications it is disastrous in conversations. Protect your conversation as you do your letters, and be even more careful. A harmful letter can be nullified by censorship; loose talk is direct delivery to the enemy.

If you come home during war your lips must remain sealed and your written hand must be guided by self-imposed censorship.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 22 2008 at 8:51pm

"...This is a pre-emptive strike if it occurs...."

........................................................

Proxy wars these days, it wouldn't be the US. ... Israel went into Syria.

................

H2HPrep

In this age of internet it's loose lips city.

Posted By: Dijoy
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 2:43am

"Careless talk costs lives "was the slogan wasn't it?

-------------
Diane

Posted By: LaRo
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 6:58am

Loose lips sink ships Was one i believe

-------------
r we there yet?

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 10:40am

H2HPrep wrote:

TALK

If you come home during war your lips must remain sealed and your written hand must be guided by self-imposed censorship.

Most here are not in the military. Many are from the U.S. where we have what is called free speech. This is true of what we consider the free world as well. This has often been used to allow pornography as well as multiple harming activities. Keeping the American public informed on our actions on the world stage in terms of specific actions and policies which may endanger us as a nation is significant. Most of the information on this thread is the by product of data released to four major news agencies by the government. That is free press and free speech and according to the SOP of intelligence agencies if something is posted in main stream media and not found to be a danger to national security, it is fair game for posts, discussion, and comment. The very thing we fight for is democracy and to share with other nations of the world who do not have it as well as the rights that come with it. One of the most important of these rights is free speech and the right to express our opinions and thoughts on anything as long as it is without threat to the government.

If by action, we are engaged in a type of brinkmanship, where extreme actions and policies endanger our citizens, then we have a national need to know to the common citizen. Free press, free speech, and transparent government. This is the foundation of true democracy.

Medclinician

Posted By: H2HPrep
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 12:52pm

Blah, blah, blah.

Freedom of speech and putting the men and women of our

armed forces in harms way are two different things.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 6:17pm

...

US Forces are Not Operating across the IRAQ Border...

...........................................................................................................

VIDEO (CNN)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3SayDDObI8&NR=1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3SayDDObI8&NR=1

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/Tehran_skyline_may_2007.jpg">

Tehran skyline may 2007

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/Tehran_skyline_may_2007.jpg - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/Tehran_skyline_may_2007.jpg

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 7:45pm

The mega bucks alone show a certain determination. We don't actually believe that

the Pres. and Vice Pres. are the only 2 people running this country. Many have signed on to the thought that the west needs to keep a conserted watch on extremists.

Check the $$$$ for proof.

Mr. Putin is not in the sights .... or does he want to protect extremist Islamists?

................

http://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-military-spending - http://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-military-spending

source-

Christopher Hellman and Travis Sharp also discuss the http://www.armscontrolcenter.org/policy/securityspending/articles/fy09_dod_request/ - US fiscal year 2009 Pentagon spending request and note that “Congress has already approved nearly $700 billion in supplemental funding for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and an additional $126 billion in FY'08 war funding is still pending before the House and Senate.”

We don't own the world..... true, but the extremist Islamists feel they do.

Thats the rub.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 3:11am

To avoid confusion on this material my post will be in italics to separate it from the quoted link.

It has been in the media almost a year that preparation for an attack on Iran was in progress. The negotiations and sanctions and diplomatic efforts have failed and these news stories have been released to the press in hundreds of articles.

This is reality. The statement of what is happening in the Gulf is something that will effect us all globally.

comment: This attack has not happened yet but the sword of Democles still hangs above the worlld. There was another statement and date - having gone past that date, as many dates have passed i.e. March 2008 - for an attack would signify that someone somewhere is aware of the gravity of the action and is seeking to avoid it.

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Democles+sword - http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Democles+sword

Israel Pushed To Attack Iran Before Autumn 2008

A Potential World War

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert made it clear to Washington that Iran’s nuclear program must be stopped by "all possible means." Israel’s Deputy Prime Minister Shaul Mofaz called war against Iran "unavoidable." Israel will (must) attack because it has no choice as "options are disappearing and sanctions have proven to be ineffective." Likewise former German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer wrote in the Israeli daily Haaretz that Bush and Olmert seem to be planning to "End Iran’s nuclear program by military means, rather than by diplomatic." Further, sources reported that the Cheney circles in Washington have been putting tremendous pressure on Tel Aviv to strike Iran, and that Israel must use their nuclear weapons to destroy Iran’s nuclear facilities before its too late. To reinforce this Israeli pilots are now covertly training on state-of-the-art U.S. fighter jets at locations in the Nevada desert, in preparation for an Israeli bombing of Natanz and other Iranian sites.

Israel may attack Iran preemptively before August 22 due to suspicions of an attack from Iran on that date. Farid Ghadry, President of the Reform Party of Syria, asserts that the Supreme National Security Council of Iran has chosen August 22 "for a very precise reason". It is known in the Islamic calendar as the Night of the Sira’a and Miira’aj- the night Prophet Mohammed ascended to heaven from the Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. That night is central to Islam’s claim to Jerusalem as an Islamic holy city. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad could very well be planning another "illumination of the night sky over Jerusalem" by nuclear weapons this time, as indicated by his statement that "Israel has pushed the button of its own destruction" (by retaliating against Hizballah). Israel may concur with Farid Ghadry’s words and move to stop Iran before it is too late. If Israel does attack Iran, which could be any day now, Iranian Defense Minister Mostafa Najjar said that "Iran’s reaction will be overwhelming." and Iran's oil minister warned Wednesday that an attack on his country would provoke an unimaginably fierce response. The commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guards warned that Tehran would respond to an attack by barraging Israel with missiles and seize control of key oil passageways. If Iran chokes off just the Strait of Hormuz it would stop 40% of oil exports. President Bush has repeatedly said that a military strike on Tehran is possible and ABC News quoted an unnamed senior Pentagon official warning of an "increasing likelihood" that Israel will strike Iran's nuclear facilities before the end of the year.

Recent demonstrations of military power first by Israel and then in response by Iran July 8, 2008 indicate that "push" is probably about to become "shove". John Bolten, (25thUS ambassador to the UN) seems to concur that Israel is being left with no alternative but to act now- especially before Bush leaves office and Israel potentially loses the support of this administration or before Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert possibly loses office in September. They can not, and will not, wait and take that chance or of Iran getting nuclear weapons. They have little choice and unfortunately (or fortunately) they still have the element of surprise.

The consequences of Israel attacking Iran are incalculable- nevertheless it seems imminently inevitable. The United States is not going to act therefore they must...and the war itself may not be as devastating as its effect. Even if Israel preemptively initiates the conflict, the US will lose most of their foreign oil as Arab nations are compelled to support Iran. China, Russian and N.Korea will more than likely take the opportunity to join the opposition as well.

The ramifications of our loss of oil could bring overnight catastrophe to this country. Not just due the loss of electrical power, communications, and mobility to employment, but even basic necessities for survival such as food shipments into urban areas. Cities might riot chain-reactively and the capital itself could fall before the national guard would even have time to react.

comment: So far, researching data on the net and in the media, it would appear the situation remains. It is sad that our troop and military must be put in danger in unstable and dangerous parts of the world. Yet, if we are not united in our relationships to rogue countries which seek to arm themselves with nuclear weapons, this presents us with a grave situation.

What is the answer? What will be the consequences of an attack on Iran? Is there a choice in the simple reality that if Western forces do not intervene, then Israel will attack on its own?

Nations which threaten our military are aware of our presence in terms of military naval fleets. Forces on the ground, both allies and enemy are present in the Gulf. The nations across from the Gulf from Iran are on full alert.

Those of us who report the news did not start the fire, we are only reporting the smoke that is clearly visible.

With the huge political forces in play and the coming elections, the timing of this attack is critical. Given which candidate is elected, it may or may not happen from the U.S. Yet given the Islamic determination to dominate the planet, and the reality of the spread through Europe and especially Africa, slowly force us to action.

Our prayers and support to our fighting forces around the globe. For their safety and courage in facing the forces of other nations. God be with us. With us all, that we may find peace in a dangerous world and the wisdom to negotiate and resolve our differences in whatever way possible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRVWpX-Ifu8&NR=1 -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRVWpX-Ifu8&NR=1

To the many readers of this site, the author of this post has said many times "Don't Panic, Prepare." It is no doubt grueling to keep reading of peril and danger with no clear plan of action. The wisest move for those of us who must "accept what we can and cannot change and have the wisdom to know the difference" is to pray, prep, and mentally brace ourselves for the realities of a very unstable world.

Knowing this, understand the purpose is not to give alarm with no solution, it is to warn so that people might prepare.

M.C.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 7:28am

hi Med, Please give a link for

Israel Pushed To Attack Iran Before Autumn 2008

A Potential World War

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 4:00pm

Mary08 wrote:

hi Med, Please give a link for

Israel Pushed To Attack Iran Before Autumn 2008

A Potential World War

http://www.jonathanselby.com/Israel.html -
http://www.jonathanselby.com/Israel.html

comment: I found this on a search on a special engine I use. I probably should have included the standard disclaimers opinion, needs to be researched, etc. I am not connected to the site nor do I know the individual who posted it. One thing I wanted to do, but have not had time is to research and verify statements quoted by high profile individuals. Having read the fiery rhetoric coming out of Israel and Iran, also having seen dozens of quotes from U.S. military and officials, I would say the data appears at first read to be fairly credible. Look at the next article from Fox News.

MC

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 4:20pm

This article has been included to verify the arrival of a U.S. Warship in the Georgian port of Batumi, today. This is a show of support and military presence of the U.S. now in Georgia.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,409521,00.html - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,409521,00.html

U.S. Navy Warship Arrives in Georgia Carrying Aid

Sunday, August 24, 2008

ABOARD THE U.S.S. MCFAUL — A U.S. Navy warship carrying humanitarian aid anchored at the Georgian port of Batumi on Sunday, sending a strong signal of support to an embattled ally as Russian forces built up around two separatist regions.

Ahead of the USS McFaul's arrival, a top Russian general suggested that the presence of U.S. and other NATO ships in the Black Sea would worsen tensions already at a post-Cold War low.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,409521,00.html# - Russia pulled the bulk of its troops and tanks from its small southern neighbor Friday after a brief but intense war, but built up its forces in and around two separatist regions — South Ossetia and Abkhazia — and left other military posts deep inside Georgia.

The guided missile destroyer USS McFaul, loaded with some 80 pallets containing about 55 tons of humanitarian aid, is the first of three American ships scheduled to arrive this week, according to the U.S. Embassy. The aid includes baby food, diapers, bottled water, and milk.

The arrival was a stark reminder that it will take substantial aid and months of rebuilding before Georgia can recover from the war with Russia. Five days of fighting damaged cities and towns across the country and displaced tens of thousands of people.

The commander of the U.S. task force carrying aid to Georgia by ship, Navy Capt. John Moore, downplayed the significance of a destroyer bringing aid. "We really are here on a humanitarian mission," he said.

The McFaul, an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, is also outfitted with an array of weaponry, including Tomahawk cruise missiles, which can carry either conventional or nuclear warheads, and a sophisticated radar system. For security reasons the Navy does not say if ships are carrying nuclear weapons, but they usually do not.

At dockside in Batumi, with the McFaul anchored offshore, U.S. Navy officials in crisp white uniforms were met Sunday by Georgian officials, including Defense Minister David Kezerashvili.

Speaking to The Associated Press on the aft missile deck of the McFaul, anchored a mile offshore, Kezerashvili said Georgians would feel safer now.

"They will feel safe not because the destroyer is here but because they will feel they are not alone facing the Russian aggression," he said.

The deputy chief of Russia's general staff suggested that the arrival of the ship and those of other NATO members would increase tensions in the Black Sea. Russia shares the sea with NATO members Turkey, Romania and Bulgaria as well as Georgia and http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,409521,00.html# - Ukraine , whose pro-Western president also is leading a drive for NATO membership.

"I don't think such a buildup will foster the stabilization of the atmosphere in the region," Russia's ITAR-Tass news agency quoted Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn as saying Saturday.

The conflict between Russia and Georgia, a small ex-Soviet republic whose pro-Western leaders have tried to shed http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,409521,00.html# - Moscow's influence and sought NATO membership, has strained Russian-U.S. relations.

Georgia straddles a key westward route for oil from Azerbaijan and other Caspian Sea nations including Kazakhstan, giving it added strategic importance as the U.S. and the http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,409521,00.html# - European Union seek to decrease Russia's dominance of oil and gas exports from the former Soviet Union.

On Sunday, an oil train caught fire after an explosion in central Georgia, shutting down a main east-west rail line used for oil transport for hours.

The Georgian Foreign Ministry said the most likely cause of the train derailment and fire was a Russian mine planted on the tracks, an opinion echoed by the director of Georgia's railways, Irakli Ezugbaia, and the Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili.

Later, Utiashvili said it was possible that debris from explosions at a disused munitions dump nearby hit the train, causing the fire. He earlier had reported that debris from the train blast had caused a fire at the munitions storage site.

Ezugbaia said an investigation was under way and other mines had been found on the tracks. He said the train was carrying crude oil from Kazakhstan transported by an Azerbaijani company to a Georgian Black Sea port.

Hundreds of Georgians flocked back to Gori on Saturday, one day after the Russians withdrew, to begin rebuilding their lives. Their homecoming was laced with despair, disbelief and anger.

"Barbarians, that's what they are. They kill innocent people here ... how many kilometers outside the battlefield? They bombed all over Georgia," Zurab Gvarientashvili, a 31-year-old engineer, said as he viewed his apartment, destroyed by a Russian bomb.

Gori is 20 miles south of the capital of the separatist region South Ossetia, where Georgian forces launched an assault on Aug. 7, sparking the war and an international crisis.

South Ossetian officials accused Georgia on Sunday of building up military forces along the edge of South Ossetia and claimed a Georgian unit fired sporadically at villages overnight. There were no reports of casualties, but South Ossetian spokeswoman Irina Gagloyeva said residents were asking to be evacuated.

Georgian Security Council chief Alexander Lomaia denied that Georgian forces had fired any shots but said Russian forces were obligated to leave positions in the area, which is in Georgia.

Lomaia also said Russian forces were still holding 12 of 22 Georgian servicemen taken prisoner in Poti last week.

Next to one bomb crater in Gori, Merdiko Peredze's goats grazed on burnt grass.

Peredze said he was refugee twice over — once after fleeing his home amid fighting in the early 1990s in Abkhazia and now again, with his house in Gori in tatters.

"I'm an old man but I will return to Abkhazia," he vowed. "Russian, Georgians, Ossetians — we should all be living in peace together, like we did under Stalin."

comment: The U.S. now has a military presence in the Russian / Georgia conflict. This is a further destabilization of the very tense situation and has the potential for a direct U.S./ Soviet military conflict. Not good.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 10:38pm

I liked that article a lot.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 26 2008 at 3:24pm

Russian Warship and battle group move into Black Sea in response to U.S. warship arrival.

Naval Open Source Intelligence - August 25, 2008 - the clouds grow darker
http://www.nosi.org/ -
http://www.nosi.org/

MOSCOW (Reuters) - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/countries/russia.html?nav=el - Russia's flagship cruiser re-entered the Black Sea on Monday for weapons tests hours after the Russian military complained about the presence of U.S. and other NATO naval ships near the Georgian coast.

The "Moskva" had led a battle group of Russian naval vessels stationed off the coastline of Georgia's breakaway region of Abkhazia during Russia's recent conflict with Georgia and sank smaller Georgian craft.

The assistant to the Russian Navy's commander-in-chief told Russian news agencies the cruiser had put to sea again two days after returning to its base at the Ukrainian port of Sevastopol.

"'Moskva' has today departed toward the Black Sea Fleet's naval training range to check its radio-controlled weapons and onboard communications systems," Captain Igor Dygalo was quoted as saying by Interfax.

(more data)

The Russian navy's press office was unable to confirm his comments when contacted by Reuters.

The presence of so many ships from NATO countries earlier drew the ire of a Russian military spokesman during a daily media briefing on the conflict.

"The fact that there are nine Western warships in the Black Sea cannot but be a cause for concern. They include two U.S. warships, one each from Spain and Poland, and four from Turkey," Anatoly Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of the Russian military's General Staff said.

On Sunday, the U.S. guided missile destroyer USS McFaul arrived with aid including camp beds, bedding, tents and mobile kitchen units, the U.S Defense Department spokesman Bryan. Whitman said.

Separately, the U.S. Coast Guard cutter Dallas has been dispatched with aid, while a third vessel, the Navy command ship USS Mount Whitney, is being loaded in Italy with humanitarian supplies for Georgia, he said.

The NATO ships in the Black Sea are carrying more than 100 'Tomahawk' cruise missiles, with more than 50 onboard the USS McFaul alone that could hit ground targets, reported RIA news agency, quoting unnamed sources in Russian military intelligence.

comment: Under the guise of bringing food and supplies both American and Russian warships are converging in a dangerous escalation of tension in the Black Sea.

Despite the smoke and mirrors, naval military buildup continues in the Gulf and the threat of possible direct confrontation between U.S. and Russian military increases by the day.

Medclinician

Posted By: H2HPrep
Date Posted: August 26 2008 at 4:36pm

Loose lips still sink ships

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 27 2008 at 4:13am

H2HPrep wrote:

Loose lips still sink ships

I keep seeing this in this thread, and I had just let it go by several times. Are you in the military and speaking for the military?

There is probably a need to respond to this because it does not accuratey portray the effect of posting news versus some sort of sinister behind the scenes danger to our troops by doing so.

Military survelliance can read the letters on a postage stamp form a satellite. Russia, China, and all the real players in this are quite aware of where our huge ships are and the ships and subs around them. So, most certainly they are not going to glean any prize information from stating we have warships in the Black Sea and so do they and we have a very very delicate situation.

The only things this data will sink is the lack of knowledge of the Amercian public of what is going on in the Gulf. Their awareness of how close we are to a war, and how they should be actively involved in contacting our leaders that we need to seriously, and I think Obama would agree on this one, exaust diplomacy, before putting our subs and ships nose to nose.

We used to play cat and mouse beneath the North Pole with nuclear subs, and then in Scandanavia and there have been collisions and accidents. Last night I was really thinking why on occassion these ominous whispers happen on the net, when I have read stuff in Time magazine and USA today which is far more specific. I rather think it is more a competition between main stream media and blogs and sites like this. It is the desire of those who control the media to be the first to break and really limit what the public is aware of, not for security, but control.

We have a problem in the Gulf. There will not be an increased loss of life because people are made aware of it. The people who could hurt us already know a lot. In fact, it is likely there are many moles and cells in place, watching extremely high traffic data lines who report to our enemies. We had one Russian spy who basically blew most of our technology as a double agent over a decade. He was assigned to find the mole. He made one last drop, and that did it. But Russia basically was kept well informed on our most sensitive projects and has been for quite some time.

Well, to repeat a phrase I have heard from intelligence on several occassions, and laymen not working for intelligence can interface with intelligence, if it is on the net, posted on main media, it is fair game for reporters and the media.

Bluntly, why would you not want Americans to know the truth about our problem in the Gulf? This is not national security, this is political.

Over the last two weeks I haven't got a lot of sleep. I have been monitoring two things. What is really happening in Iran and the Middle East, and the almost complete news blackout on Avian Flu in the media.

This generation and net users are educated and aware. They are probably the most informed people because of the Internet of any generation in history. If you are speaking for the military, .gov, or have an official mandate from TPTB to censor information please be more clear on why putting up news concerning the Gulf threatens our troops.

It is a showdown. Nato is trying to take over and control the former USSR and Putin either makes a move to stop it, or will forever be stalemated and a lesser world power.

This is brinksmanship and dangerous. And it is being done at time before national elections because this is the only time it can happen. Whatever happens now, an administration which is leaving will be responsible, and there will be no blame to a newly elected one.

IMHO unless we are actively planning to attack Russia, China, or Iran - and I truly hope this is not the case, there is no need for a media blackout.

If we are, then perhaps there is a need for the public to have some sort of voice in this. It is no secret that there are plans to do so. And it is no secret that Israel plans to attack if we do not.

It is on over a hundred news sites, on hundreds of video interviews and statements from world leaders.

No doubt, the people should have some say in our foreign policy. They will on election day. The problem before election day, they do not. And knowing this many things may be done which could have severe consequences.

This is not my opinion. It is all over the network.

Here is a warmup article as to the tip of the iceberg of data leaks to Russia.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3403300117.html - http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3403300117.html

They certainly are not interested in reading reports they have published in their own news to gain information. Grave and serioius consideration should be given by an informed congress when our fighting forces are put in danger. There is not a general consensus upon the wisdom of much of our foreign policy at this time. We approach an election and democracy will have a however weak swing at having the voice of the people heard and the process of actual representationof the will of that people and what they want seen at the voting booths and election returns.

That is how it should be.

Medclinician

Posted By: H2HPrep
Date Posted: August 27 2008 at 7:26am

September 11, 2001 - Terrorists hijack four U.S. commercial airliners taking off from various locations in the United States in a coordinated suicide attack. In separate attacks, two of the airliners crash into the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, which catch fire and eventually collapse. A third airliner crashes into the Pentagon in Washington, DC, causing extensive damage. The fourth airliner, also believed to be heading towards Washington, DC, crashes outside Shanksville, PA., killing all 45 people on board. Casualty estimates from New York put the possible death toll close to 5,000, while as many as 200 people may have been lost at the Pentagon crash site.

Oct. 12, 2000 - A terrorist bomb damages the destroyer USS Cole in the port of Aden, Yemen, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39.

Aug. 7, 1998 - Terrorist bombs destroy the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. In Nairobi, 12 Americans are among the 291 killed, and over 5,000 are wounded, including 6 Americans. In Dar es Salaam, one U.S. citizen is wounded among the 10 killed and 77 injured.

In response, on August 20 the United States attacked targets in Afghanistan and Sudan with over 75 cruise missiles fired from Navy ships in the Arabian and Red seas. About 60 Tomahawk cruise missiles were fired from warships in the Arabian Sea. Most struck six separate targets in a camp near Khost, Afghanistan. Simultaneously, about 20 cruise missiles were fired from U.S. ships in the Red Sea striking a factory in Khartoum, Sudan, which was suspected of producing components for making chemical weapons.

June 21, 1998 - Rocket-propelled grenades explode near the U.S. embassy in Beirut.

July 27, 1996 - A pipe bomb explodes during the Olympic games in Atlanta, killing one person and wounding 111.

June 25, 1996 - A bomb aboard a fuel truck explodes outside a U.S. air force installation in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. 19 U.S. military personnel are killed in the Khubar Towers housing facility, and 515 are wounded, including 240 Americans.

Nov. 13, 1995 - A car-bomb in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia kills seven people, five of them American military and civilian advisers for National Guard training. The "Tigers of the Gulf," "Islamist Movement for Change," and "Fighting Advocates of God" claim responsibility.

April 19, 1995 - A car bomb destroys the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people and wounding over 600.

February 1993 - A bomb in a van explodes in the underground parking garage in New York's World Trade Center, killing six people and wounding 1,042.

Dec. 21, 1988 - A bomb destroys Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. All 259 people aboard the Boeing 747 are killed including 189 Americans, as are 11 people on the ground.

April 1986 - An explosion damages a TWA flight as it prepares to land in Athens, Greece. Four people are killed when they are sucked out of the aircraft.

April 5, 1986 - A bomb destroys the LaBelle discotheque in West Berlin. The disco was known to be frequented by U.S. servicemen. The attack kills one American and one German woman and wounds 150, including 44 Americans

In response, on April 15 the United States retaliated in an operation dubbed ‘El Dorado Canyon.’ Approximately 100 aircraft were launched in direct support of the raid. It was an attack against military targets involving land-based bombers from Great Britain together with carrier-based air strikes from ships in the Gulf of Sidra.

December 1985 - Simultaneous suicide attacks are carried out against U.S. and Israeli check-in desks at Rome and Vienna international airports. 20 people are killed in the two attacks, including four terrorists.

November 1985 - Hijackers aboard an Egyptair flight kill one American. Egyptian commandos later storm the aircraft on the isle of Malta, and 60 people are killed.

October 1985 - Palestinian terrorists hijack the cruise liner Achille Lauro (in response to the Israeli attack on PLO headquarters in Tunisia) Leon Klinghoffer, an elderly, wheelchair-bound American, is killed and thrown overboard.

August 1985 - A car bomb at a U.S. military base in Frankfurt, Germany kills two and injures 20. A U.S. soldier murdered for his identity papers is found a day after the explosion.

June 1985 - A TWA airliner is hijacked over the Mediterranean, the start of a two-week hostage ordeal. The last 39 passengers are eventually released in Damascus after being held in various locations in Beirut.

June 1985 - In San Salvador, El Salvador, 13 people are killed in a machine gun attack at an outdoor café, including four U.S. Marines and two American businessmen.

April 1985 - A bomb explodes in a restaurant near a U.S. air base in Madrid, Spain, killing 18, all Spaniards, and wounding 82, including 15 Americans.

November 1984 - A bomb attack on the U.S. embassy in Bogota, Colombia kills a passer-by. The attack was preceded by death threats against U.S. officials by drug traffickers.

October 1983 - A suicide car bomb attack against the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut kills 241 servicemen. A simultaneous attack on a French base kills 58 paratroopers.

April 1983 - A suicide car bombing against the U.S. embassy in Beirut kills 63, including 17 Americans.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 30 2008 at 4:17am

H2HPrep wrote:

September 11, 2001 - Terrorists hijack four U.S. commercial airliners taking off from various locations in the United States in a coordinated suicide attack. In separate attacks, two of the airliners crash into the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, which catch fire and eventually collapse. A third airliner crashes into the Pentagon in Washington, DC, causing extensive damage. The fourth airliner, also believed to be heading towards Washington, DC, crashes outside Shanksville, PA., killing all 45 people on board. Casualty estimates from New York put the possible death toll close to 5,000, while as many as 200 people may have been lost at the Pentagon crash site.

This is not at all related to the thread. Why are you posting this here?

MC.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 30 2008 at 4:29am

Back on track -

While quickly snuffed out, the protests demonstrated Sebastopol's emergence as a flashpoint for tensions between Moscow and its former Soviet satellites in the wake of the Georgian conflict.

Mirage, the missile corvette that returned to Sebastopol, was involved in the only reported maritime action of the campaign. It sank a Georgian fast patrol boat that had probed within range of its guns.

Ukraine's president, Victor Yushchenko, condemned the use of vessels based in the Russian concession to provide back-up for its assault on Georgia over the disputed enclave of South Ossetia.

While Ukraine is powerless to stop Russian movements in Sebastopol, there was a brief stand-off as one of its ships moved to accompany the Mirage through the harbour.

Russia retained a strategic advantage on land as well as sea. Sebastopol and the wider Crimean peninsula are virtual Russian enclaves in Ukraine. The protest erupted at a point were tanned holidaymakers normally descend though an arch to the harbour boardwalk. But the strength of the pro-Russian forces, mobilised to show support for the Mirage, was hardly put to the test by the demonstrators.

Oleh Yatshenko, the organiser of the anti-Russian protest, displayed two small cuts on his arm, inflicted by pro-Moscow forces, who pushed their opponents away from the shore and ripped away banners. "What Russia did in Georgia was illegal," he said. "We are standing up for our country because they are doing the same thing here."

Most of Yatshenko's supporters had arrived from the Western Ukraine. The group carried banners reading, "Shame" and "Out of here!" Last week a Ukrainian presidential decree imposed new reporting restrictions for Russian naval craft moving through Ukrainian waters. The Ukrainian government has reiterated its determination not to renew Moscow's lease on the port when it is due for renewal in 2017.

Kiev has shown no signs of backing down despite a furious Russian reaction with Foreign Minister Volodymyr Ogryzko telling the Izvestia newspaper that its preparations for a withdrawal should have already started.

He said: "Russia should already now be preparing for the withdrawal of the fleet, which will take place in 2017. Such things do not happen in a day."

Russia criticised the dispatch of Nato vessels to the Black Sea to distribute humanitarian aid to Georgia. The deputy chief of the Russian military's general staff expressed doubts whether it is necessary to have NATO vessels in the Black Sea delivering humanitarian aid to Georgia.

"Now that the conflict is exhausted, there are NATO vessels," said Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn said. "What for and with what aim?"

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 30 2008 at 4:40am

Russia

http://www.debka.com/section.php?cid=13 - http://www.debka.com/section.php?cid=13

/headline.php?hid=5536 - Medvedev not afraid of Cold War after approving Georgian regions’ independence

DEBKAfile Special Report

August 30, 2008, 12:53 PM (GMT+02:00)

The move sparked a sharp exchange between Washington and Moscow. President George W. Bush said it exacerbates tensions and complicates negotiations. The Russian president warned of military responses to the US missile shield in Europe.

Signing the decrees confirming South Ossetian and Abkhazian independence, Russian president Dimitry Medvedev said Tuesday, Aug. 26: “We are not afraid of anything, including the prospect of a Cold War. DEBKAfile's Moscow sources report the Kremlin is planning further sanctions against Georgia and its US-NATO backers, possibly in Eastern Europe.

(more to come)

Medclinician

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 30 2008 at 4:49am

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1219913194872&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull - http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1219913194872&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Israel will not allow Iran to attain nuclear capability and if time begins to run out, Jerusalem will not hesitate to take whatever means necessary to prevent Iran from achieving its nuclear goals, javascript:void%280%29 - the government has recently decided in a special discussion.

Labor MK Ephraim Sneh.

According the Israeli daily M a'ariv, whether javascript:void%280%29 - the United States and Western countries succeed in thwarting the Islamic Republic's nuclear ambitions diplomatically, through sanctions, or whether a US strike on Iran is eventually decided upon, Jerusalem has begun preparing for a separate, independent military strike.

So far, Israel has not received American authorization to use US-controlled Iraqi airspace, nor has the defense establishment been successful in securing the purchase of advanced US-made warplanes which could facilitate an Israeli strike.

The Americans have offered Israel permission to use a global early warning radar system, implying that the US is pushing Israel to settle for defensive measures only.

Meanwhile, the pan-Arabic Al Kuds al Arabi reported Friday that Iran had equipped Hizbullah with longer range missiles than those it possessed before the Second Lebanon War and had also improved the guerrilla group's targeting capabilities.

According to the report, which javascript:void%280%29 - The Jerusalem Post could not verify independently, Hizbullah was planning a massive rocket onslaught on targets reaching deep into Israel's civilian underbelly in case Israel launches an attack on Iran.

AP contributed to this report

Medclinician

Posted By: Lone Wolf
Date Posted: August 30 2008 at 5:12pm

http://www.debka.com/index1.php - http://www.debka.com/index1.php

Dutch sabotage agent recalled from Iran over "impending" US attack - report

DEBKAfile Special Report

August 30, 2008, 5:36 PM (GMT+02:00)

Americas%20largest%20unmanned%20aerial%20vehicle

America's largest unmanned aerial vehicle

A Dutch AIVD Secret Service ultra-secret operation underway in Iran in recent years has been halted and an agent recalled in view of “impending US plans to attack Iran,” within weeks, writes Joost de Haas, known for his good intelligence contacts, in the Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf.

The AIVD operation aimed to infiltrate and sabotage the weapons [and nuclear] industry in the Islamic Republic.

According to intelligence sources in the Netherlands, the US [or Israel] was expected to make a decision within weeks to attack nuclear plants with unmanned aircraft, used to avoid risking the lives of air crews and warplanes.

DEBKAfile’s military sources report this would be the first time drones operated by remote control were used against major strategic targets, necessary in Israel’s case to hold its air fleet and flight crews ready to defend the country against reprisal from Iran’s allies. Syria and the Lebanese Hizballah have stockpiled thousands of rockets for this purpose.

The Iranian targets to be bombed would include also military installations brought to light partly by the Dutch espionage operation, described by De Telegraaf as extremely successful. “One of the agents was able to infiltrate the Iranian industry” and for years shared information with the American CIA. “Various supplies could also be sabotaged and stopped. These were parts for missiles and launching equipment.”

According to DEBKAfile’s sources, the expectation disclosed by the Dutch newspaper would explain the fresh spate of threats from Iran.

Thursday, Aug. 28, Iranian sources told the London-based Arabic al Quds that Tehran had recently transferred to Hizballah new long-range rockets capable of hitting every inch of Israeli soil with great accuracy.

They were to be fired if Israel or the United States attacked Iran.

Dep. Chief of General Staff Masus Jazairi said Saturday, Aug. 30, that any attack on Iran would mean the beginning of a new world war. He said the “greed of the US and Zionists” is gradually leading the world to collapse as demonstrated in Sudan, Iraq, Afghanistan and the Caucasus.

DEBKAfile’s Iran sources report a shakeup is in progress in the Islamic Republic’s top military command.

Amir (Maj. Gen.) Seyed Abdollrahim Mousavi was named acting chief of staff

of the armed forces – a new post created as backup in case the army chief comes to harm in combat.

Amir Mohamad Hosseyn Dadras becomes deputy chief of staff for coordination.

Amir Reza Pourdastan is the new commander of the army’s ground corps.

Posted By: Lone Wolf
Date Posted: August 30 2008 at 5:20pm

http://www.debka.com/index1.php - http://www.debka.com/index1.php

Any attack on Iran will start new world war - Iranian general

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

August 30, 2008, 12:52 PM (GMT+02:00)

DEBKAfile’s Iran sources report that Jazairi’s attack aimed at confirming his credentials in Tehran during a major shakeup of the Iranian high command.

Amir (Maj.-Gen.) Seyed Abdollrahim Mousavi has just been appointed acting chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces, Amir Mohamad Hosseyn Dadras, Dep. Chief of Staff on Coordination and Amir Ahmad Reza Pourdastan is the new commander of the Armed Forces’ Ground Corps.

Posted By: Lone Wolf
Date Posted: August 30 2008 at 5:36pm

http://www.iranpressnews.com/english/source/045316.html - http://www.iranpressnews.com/english/source/045316.html

http://www.iranpressnews.com/english/source/045316.html - Playing 'Iranian Card' Could Allow Moscow to Control Persian Gulf, Russian Expert Says

http://georgiandaily.com

Moscow has "a mul*****ude" of ways to counter the pressure Western countries are bringing to bear on the Russian Federation since its military action in Georgia, but none promises a greater return than forming an alliance with Iran, something that would allow Moscow to control the Persian Gulf, according to a leading Russian specialist on Iran.

In an article in today's "Vremya Novostei," Radzhab Safarov, the director of the Russian Center for the Study of Contemporary Iran, argues that Moscow will gain by establishing closer ties with "those countries which are really opposing the expansion of the United States and its satellites.

Among those, he continues, are Cuba and Syria, "but the most serious step which the United States and especially Israel (which by the way supplied arms to the Georgians) especially fear is the possible revision by Russia of its foreign policy in relation to Iran" and a rapprochement between Moscow and Tehran.

The formation of "a strategic union," Safarov continues, "could change the entire geopolitical picture of the contemporary world" because it could lead to the location on Iranian soil of two Russian bases, one in the north which would give Moscow additional leverage over Azerbaijan and a second in the south which would allow Russia to control the Persian Gulf.

With the latter, he argues, "Russia would have the chance for the first time to stop suspicious ships and check their cargoes just as the Americans have been cynically doing in this zone for many decades," a chance that Moscow could employ to control the flow of oil out of the Middle East and thus have additional leverage in the oil-thirsty countries of Europe and Asia.

One obvious first step, the Iranian specialist says, would be to accelerate the process of the formation of a gas cartel resembling OPEC in oil. Russia has the largest reserves of natural gas, and Iran has the second largest, Safarov says. And together they control more than 60 percent of all proved reserves of this critical fuel.

Iran would clearly benefit from that, he suggests, but to get Tehran to agree to Russian bases, Moscow would have to help Iran with anti-aircraft and anti-missile defense systems as well as to increase "cooperation in practically all spheres, including nuclear energy," something Iran wants and that Russia would benefit from financially.

And Safarov adds that there is an additional reason for Moscow to consider such ties with Iran: Given what he describes as "the rapid collapse of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) which Georgia has left, Russia could accelerate the process of the inclusion of Iran as a full member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO).

That would cement Moscow's links to much of the Muslim world, Safarov adds, and would led additional weight to the SCO because of Iran's capabilities. And in the more distant future, that could lay "the foundation of a powerful strategic axis of Russia, Iran and China," one that he suggests "the United States and its allies are so afraid of."

There is as yet no indication that the Kremlin has any intention of moving as far in this direction as Safarov urges or that Iran, which in recent weeks has been pursuing closer ties with Turkey, would agree. But given Moscow's belief that its Georgian moves have shown the world that Caspian basin oil must flow through Russia, what Safarov says is clearly a logical next step.

And indeed it would not represent a departure either from longstanding Russian interests in moving south – one thinks of Vladimir Zhirinovsky's call for Russian soldiers to "wash their boots" in the sea to Russia's south – or from Moscow's recent involvement in the development of Iran's nuclear program.

Safarov's article may thus be intended to test the reaction among both Russian elites and the West about a potential step that would as he says dramatically change the geo-political and geo-economic balance of power not only in the Middle East but across much of the oil and gas-hungry world.

Posted By: Lone Wolf
Date Posted: August 30 2008 at 5:52pm

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1219913200406&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull - http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1219913200406&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Aug 30, 2008 13:07 | Updated Aug 30, 2008 23:42

'Attack on Iran would cause WWIII'

Should Israel or javascript:void%280%29 - the United States attack Iran, it would be the start of another World War, Iranian Deputy javascript:void%280%29 - chief of staff General Masoud Jazayeri warned on Saturday.

"Any aggression against Iran will start a world war," the Iranian state news javascript:void%280%29 - agency IRNA quoted the top Iranian official as saying. "The unrestrained greed of the US leadership and global Zionism... is leading the world to the brink of a precipice."

"It is evident that if such a challenge occurs, the fake and artificial regimes will be eliminated before anything," he said.

The news agency also quoted Jordan's King Abdullah II as saying that if an attack was launched against Iran, it would fail to achieve its objectives.

"Israel doesn't have the ability to completely destroy the atomic reactor in Teheran," Abdullah claimed, reiterating that the Islamic regime insists that its nuclear program is not for military purposes but rather for civilian use alone.

"What Iran is trying to tell us, in my opinion, is that we must recognize [the country] as a key international player," the Jordanian king said, warning that "any military action against Teheran will have serious consequences on all of the Middle East, and the states in the region will be forced to deal with the situation."

On Friday, Iranian Deputy Foreign Minister Ali Reza Sheikh Attar said that the country had increased the number of operating centrifuges at its uranium enrichment plant to 4,000.

The number was up from the 3,000 centrifuges that Iran announced in November that it was operating at its plant in the central city of Natanz. Still, it was well below the 6,000 it said last year it would operate by Summer 2008, suggesting that the program may be behind schedule.

AP contributed to this report

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 30 2008 at 6:09pm

....................................................................

I smell fear.

Posted By: Lone Wolf
Date Posted: August 30 2008 at 6:40pm

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1219913194872&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull - http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1219913194872&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Aug 29, 2008 11:13 | Updated Aug 30, 2008 16:50

Report: Israel won't allow a nuclear Iran

Israel will not allow Iran to attain nuclear capability and if time begins to run out, Jerusalem will not hesitate to take whatever means necessary to prevent Iran from achieving its nuclear goals, the government has recently decided in a special discussion.

According to the Israeli daily Ma'ariv, whether javascript:void%280%29 - the United States and Western countries succeed in thwarting the Islamic Republic's nuclear ambitions diplomatically, through sanctions, or whether a US strike on Iran is eventually decided upon, Jerusalem has begun preparing for a separate, independent military strike.

The Americans have offered Israel permission to use a global early warning radar system, implying that the US is pushing Israel to settle for defensive measures only.

Because of Israel's lack of strategic depth, Jerusalem has consistently warned in recent years that it will not settle for a 'wait and see' approach, merely retaliating to an attack, but will rather use preemption to prevent any risk of being hit in the first place.

Ephraim Sneh a veteran Labor MK who has recently left the party, has reportedly sent a document to both US presidential candidates, John McCain and Barack Obama. The eight-point document states that "there is no government in Jerusalem that would ever reconcile itself to a nuclear Iran. When it is clear Iran is on the verge of acquiring nuclear weapons, an Israeli military strike to prevent this will be seriously considered."

According to Ma'ariv, Sneh offered the two candidates the "sane, cheap and the only option that does not necessitate bloodshed." To prevent Iran's nuclear aspirations, Sneh wrote, "real" sanctions applied by the US and Europe were necessary. A total embargo in spare parts for the oil industry and a total boycott of Iranian banks would promptly put an end to the regime, which is already pressured by a sloping economy and would be toppled by the Iranian people if they have outside assistance, he said.

The window of opportunity Sneh suggests is a year and a half to two years, until 2010.

Sneh also visited Switzerland and Austria last week in an attempt to lobby them against the Iranian threat. Both countries have announced massive long-term investments in Iranian gas and oil fields for the next decade.

"Talk of the Jewish Holocaust and Israel's security doesn't impress these guys," Sneh said wryly.

Hearing his hosts speak of their future investments, Sneh replied quietly "it's a shame, because Ido will light all this up." He was referring to Maj. Gen. Ido Nehushtan, the recently appointed IAF commander and the man most likely to be the one to orchestrate Israel's attack on Iran's nuclear facilities, should this become a necessity.

"Investing in Iran in 2008," Sneh told his Austrian hosts, "is like investing in the Krupp steelworks in 1938, it's a high risk javascript:void%280%29 - investment ." The Austrians, according to Sneh, turned pale.

In related news, a top official said Friday that
Iran had increased the number of operating centrifuges at its uranium enrichment plant to 4,000.

Deputy Foreign Minister Ali Reza Sheikh Attar, who visited the Natanz plant last week, said that Iran was preparing to install even more centrifuges, though he did not offer a timeframe.

"Right now, nearly 4,000 centrifuges are operating at Natanz," Attar told the state news agency IRNA. "Currently, 3,000 other centrifuges are being installed."

AP contributed to this report

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 30 2008 at 11:53pm

source

http://english.farsnews.com/NewsV.php?srv=14 - http://english.farsnews.com/NewsV.php?srv=14

Russia Vows to Finish Iran's Bushehr Reactor in Months

TEHRAN (FNA)- Officials said a Russian nuclear delegation was scheduled to arrive in Iran in September 2008 to discuss a final timetable for the 1,000 megawatt Bushehr power plant.

Germany and Britain Warn Iran

Bushehr%20nuclear%20power%20plant%20in%20%20Iran%20is%20at%20the%20center%20of%20the%20row.

Bushehr nuclear power plant in Iran is at the center of the row.

source-

http://www.dw-world.de/popups/popup_lupe/0,,1366228_ind_2,00.html - http://www.dw-world.de/popups/popup_lupe/0,,1366228_ind_2,00.html

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 31 2008 at 12:24am

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8706091130 - http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8706091130

Iran Offers N. Aid to Nigeria

TEHRAN (FNA)- Iran is ready to share its nuclear technology with Nigeria to help the energy-starved west African powerhouse boost electricity generation, a senior Iranian official said.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 31 2008 at 6:24am

Mary08 wrote:

....................................................................

I smell fear.

I smell Hizbollah launching longer range nuclear missiles at Tel Aviv should Iran be attacked. Lone Wolf, I am glad you have already posted on this, because I have been holding back on putting this up. The irony is that the Hizbollah may number as few as 300 as a standing fighting force, but can summon more in less than 30 minutes in the event of a conflict, up to 5,000. The recent acquisition of better missiles, and most of all the honing of the Hizbollah organization strongly supported by Iran in technology and money wise, makes them the flash point for the counterstrike on Israel.

It is my heartfelt opinion that President Bush needs to meet with Putin and the head of China and basically state - despite of all our ambitions and desires to impress our citizens, we must unite as a global force and not allow this to happen period. JFK saved us from the missile crisis by making a money deal with Russia.

Posturing and posing is not the answer. I have expressed my opinions long ago on this topic, and I can only say they were 'the only way to win, is not to play.'

That has not changed.

Medclinician

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 31 2008 at 5:24pm

LONDON, August 31 (IranMania) - The Dutch AIVD secret service has had an ultra-secret operation underway in Iran in recent years that was halted in connection with plans for a US attack on Iran, PressTV reported.

The respected newspaper De Telegraaf reported Friday the "ultra-secret operation" had as its aim infiltration and sabotage of the weapons industry in the Islamic Republic.

"The operation, described as extremely successful, was halted recently in connection with plans for an impending US air attack on Iran. Along with this, targets would also be bombed which were connected with the Dutch espionage action," writes the Netherlands' biggest newspaper.

"One of the agents involved, who was able to infiltrate the Iranian industry under the supervision of the AIVD, was recently recalled because the US was thought to be making a decision within weeks to attack Iran with unmanned aircraft.

Among the potential targets were said to be not only nuclear plants, but also military installations that have been brought to light partly by the agency of the AIVD," according to the newspaper.

"Information from the AIVD operation has in recent years been shared with the American CIA secret service," the paper continued. "Various supplies could also be sabotaged and stopped. These were parts for missiles and launching equipment."

The article was written by Joost de Haas, known for his good contacts in the intelligence world. Earlier, he got hold of an AIVD report which suggested that corrupt powers within Dutch police corps supplied weapons to criminals to liquidate other criminals.

note: anything that is posted Albert, that is too security sensitive please delete. This was on open net.

Medclinician

source media for data

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Telegraaf - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Telegraaf

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 31 2008 at 6:27pm

I found this very interesting. If somehow things manage to drag on until after the election how will Obama, if elected deal with it? This is Obama's policy concerning Iran

Barack Obama's Plan

Iran

The Problem: Iran has sought nuclear weapons, supports militias inside Iraq and terror across the region, and its leaders threaten Israel and deny the Holocaust. But Obama believes that we have not exhausted our non-military options in confronting this threat; in many ways, we have yet to try them. That's why Obama stood up to the Bush administration's warnings of war, just like he stood up to the war in Iraq.
Opposed Bush-Cheney Saber Rattling: Obama opposed the Kyl-Lieberman amendment, which says we should use our military presence in Iraq to counter the threat from Iran. Obama believes that it was reckless for Congress to give George Bush any justification to extend the Iraq War or to attack Iran. Obama also introduced a resolution in the Senate declaring that no act of Congress – including Kyl-Lieberman – gives the Bush administration authorization to attack Iran.
Diplomacy: Obama is the only major candidate who supports tough, direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions. Now is the time to pressure Iran directly to change their troubling behavior. Obama would offer the Iranian regime a choice. If Iran abandons its nuclear program and support for terrorism, we will offer incentives like membership in the World Trade Organization, economic investments, and a move toward normal diplomatic relations. If Iran continues its troubling behavior, we will step up our economic pressure and political isolation. Seeking this kind of comprehensive settlement with Iran is our best way to make progress.

Renewing American Diplomacy

The Problem: The United States is trapped by the Bush-Cheney approach to diplomacy that refuses to talk to leaders we don't like. Not talking doesn't make us look tough – it makes us look arrogant, it denies us opportunities to make progress, and it makes it harder for America to rally international support for our leadership. On challenges ranging from terrorism to disease, nuclear weapons to climate change, we cannot make progress unless we can draw on strong international support.
Talk to our Foes and Friends: Obama is willing to meet with the leaders of all nations, friend and foe. He will do the careful preparation necessary, but will signal that America is ready to come to the table, and that he is willing to lead. And if America is willing to come to the table, the world will be more willing to rally behind American leadership to deal with challenges like terrorism, and Iran and North Korea's nuclear programs.

comment: Do we really need the tough guy approach when world leaders are wavering in support of the U.S. in light of the Iraqi invasion? It is true that some may regard this as weakness, but every tough guy has to eventually throw a punch. Words only go so far, and the kind of punch we would have to throw to back rhetoric would be sizable indeed.

Medclinician

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 31 2008 at 9:19pm

true Med... so many words, so little cooperation

Ms Rice and the EU etc.spent how many months doing just this below?

How redundant..

......................................................

Now is the time to pressure Iran directly to change their troubling behavior. Obama would offer the Iranian regime a choice. If Iran abandons its nuclear program and support for terrorism, we will offer incentives like membership in the World Trade Organization, economic investments, and a move toward normal diplomatic relations. If Iran continues its troubling behavior, we will step up our economic pressure and political isolation. Seeking this kind of comprehensive settlement with Iran is our best way to make progress

.........................................

No progress was made Mr. Obama. Ms Rice has said the Iranians have no serious intentions to comply. They totally dissed the choice. We have promised them a blockade of items they need to keep up operations as usual.

We are sending over many tons of diplomacy I hear.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: September 01 2008 at 8:21am

Contrapoint - McCain on foreign policy, Obama, and especially Iran.

this article was written by MC

It is fairly clear to see why there was a recent cartoon with McCain dressed up in a baseball uniform pitching a hardball at the plate with great enthusiasm. No doubt the earlier softer rhetoric (though not that soft) has kindled the 'new McCain' and in addition to taking deadly aim at batter Obama with a drop-spit ball on his inexperience, he pitches a double curve with his criticism of foreign policy in Iran; how Obama would handle it, and pulling down his cap and preparing to throw another tougher curve at the waffling government of Iran who simply will not stop making weapon grade plutonium. .

McCain likes to be seen as tough with C. Rice making some serious growls as Russia continues to escalate the pressure cooker situation in the Black Sea and Persian Gulf.
While it would seem rather eerie to look back at news stories dating in late 2007 of the same moaning over Iran's foot dragging in putting those centrifuges away, it is becoming much clearer that while promising a nebulous new consideration of things in 2009, 'after they see who is in the White House', peaceful negotiations however noble and whatever the massive risk of all out war, have failed.

McCain is a scrapper and in the 1990s when he began attacking the influence of political contributions and financed legislation, he truly grabbed a very nasty bull by the horns. Ten years before he took on President Reagan voting against the president's veto against sanctions against South Africa.

So we have a combat hero, someone who is hardcore military having spent five years as a POW in Vietnam. So he does have the combat experience and military savy that Obama does not. But he is truly an undisguised hard charging Hawk in foreign policy. He voted for the troop increase in Iraq. He not only voted for, he proposed it in the first place.

And quote as to Iran and Syria 'There is no room for negotiation with rogue regimes.'

Obama wants to remove troops from Iraq, Cain wants a long term presence there. Some have said that removal of American troops right now in Iraq 'would turn it into a Jihadist superstate.'

Quoting Time magazines July 23, 2008 article concerning the rift between McCain tough guy approach to Iran and Bush's last ditch effort to negotiate -

Bush sent a ranking U.S. diplomat to negotiate with the Iranians on nuclear issues — and also let it be known that a U.S. Interests Section could soon be established in Tehran, the first U.S. diplomatic presence on Iranian soil since the 1979 hostage crisis.

McCain's approach to Iran is not to talk to them and not to negotiate. The question is, in light of their continuing (though disputed) development of nuclear weapons, what exactly is McCain's plan. He speaks of bomb bomb bombing Iran and is heartily backed by Jewish neoconservatives.

The message is clear. Attack. But this policy does not sit well with the American public. And it is a little nebulous exactly where the 'bomb bomb bombing' is going to be.

One real issue in attacking Iran is its geographical location. The Straits of Hormuz, which Iran could duly disrupt, is one of the worlds main oil shipping routes. Iranian backed militia in Iraq, which have been there for years, could easily destabilize the already shaky situation in Iraq. A rarely quoted figure of 1.2 million civilian casualties from the war would most certainly indicate the strike on Iran might not be as surgical and precise and could result in some truly unsettling loss of civilian life which would make the Iranians tap on the shoulder of the Hizbollah (militia might be an appropriate term here) who then would proceed to swath attack from above Jerusalem on up the length of Israel.

So one could extrapolate that McCain approach to Iran would be speak not at all and go in with a very big stick. Once this stick is used, this blow would set the Middle East in chaos and further anger Russia the Bear to the north which is already on full alert and in attack mode anyway, and China, would likely join in as well.

In closing, if Obama starts shining in the polls, Israel may unilaterally strike Iran, knowing that Obama is not likely to order a strike. However if McCain is electedd, it is likely that military force in spite of the consequences will be used on Iran and a hard rain of missiles is going to fall somewhere outside of Iran.

Medclinician

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: September 01 2008 at 8:41am

...........................

New Hizballah-Hamas pact extends anti-Israel missile range from Gaza

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

September 1, 2008, 10:28 AM (GMT+02:00)

The Iran-backed Lebanese terror group, Hizballah, has contracted to partner Hamas’ ongoing crash program using the month-old ceasefire with Israel to intensify combat training and arms procurement in preparation for war.

Source

http://www.debka.org/headline.php?hid=5547 - http://www.debka.org/headline.php?hid=5547

.............................................................................................................................................

The Exocet is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France - French -built http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ship_missile - anti-ship missile whose various versions can be launched from surface vessels, submarines, and airplanes. Several hundred were fired in combat during the 1980s.

interesting history

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exocet - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exocet

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: September 02 2008 at 5:03am

Mary08 wrote:

...........................

New Hizballah-Hamas pact extends anti-Israel missile range from Gaza

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

September 1, 2008, 10:28 AM (GMT+02:00)

_____________________________________

MC reply:

Source ; person on site and also data from Military.com - DefenseTech

Hizballah are becoming more of a problem because they are becoming more of an organized political force.

Here's some serious data the readers might find interesting ...

Hezbollah's Deadly Arsenal

For years, the border towns and kibbutzim in the upper Golan section of Israel, near Lebanon and Syria, have been under threat from Katyusha missiles. Cities just a few miles further south -- like Haifa and Tsfat, the crumbling, quiet mountaintop home of Jewish mysticism -- were safe; relying on short-range http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha - Katyusha rockets, Lebanese militants had the ability to sew terror only twelve miles into Israel. That changed on Thursday, when Hezbollah http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/14/world/middleeast/14cnd-mideast.html - launched a new weapon , the http://counterterrorismblog.org/2006/07/iranian_manufactured_raad_1_mi.php - Ra'ad rocket , which hit Tsfat and, for the first time, Haifa, 20 miles from the border. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=738632&contrassID=1&subContrassID=5 - 220,000 Israelis stayed in bomb shelters last night to avoid the missiles, Ha'Aretz reports.

The exact make-up and configuration of these weapons is unclear. Some sources call it a http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/at-3-specs.htm - modified anti-tank rocket ; others a http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=782 - cruise missile . Range estimates vary from http://www.spacewar.com/2004/040125162743.c7jmxq41.html - 120 to http://www.jcpa.org/brief/brief005-26.htm - 350 kilometers , or more. One report calls it a http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/thunder-1.htm - 122mm projectile . Hezbollah claims the Iranian-made " http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3275358,00.html - rocket is of 333 mm in diameter and has a warhead of 100 kilograms ."

Hezbollah's arsenal is likely filled with even deadlier weapons. Israel believes the terrorist group "has missiles that can hit most of Israel,Ha'Aretz notes and which could even strike Be'er Sheva [deep in Israel's southern, Negev desert] under optimum conditions," .

Iran supplied Hezbollah with solid-fuel, Zelzal-2 http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/zelzal-2.htm - missiles with a 200-km range, but these are not very accurate, since they do not have a self-guidance system.

The Zelzal-2 missiles, intended to strike broad targets such as communities and cities, are equipped with explosive warheads weighing up to 600 kilograms...

Hezbollah's original Katyusha rockets had a range of 12 kilometers to 22 kilometers. At a later stage, it obtained Iranian Fajar-3 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5 - Fajar-5 rockets, with a range of 45 kilometers and 75 kilometers, respectively. Hezbollah did not use these rockets until the current conflict.

Source on scene: I was supposed to spend my honeymoon next month lounging around Haifa, hiking in the Golan, maybe spending the sabbath in Tsfat. Now, these Hezbollah weapons have introduced a new calculus: how much fear is my wife willing to take?

note: The U.S. has considerable weaponry and technology. The problem is the mobility and covertness of this group and their ability to emerge from the scenery, fire, and flee. This presents an issue in targeting a source assault position. Often a number of missiles or an attack force would be neutralized within minutes after firing. This was a strategy used in Iraq when radar locations would lock on American aircraft.

The same applies to a surgical strike upon Iran's plutonium centrifuges and nuclear development facilities. Much of the hardware could be scattered quickly and moved throughout Iran vaporizing a clear single tactical target. Strategic cells on the ground from Western forces spot in some case where drone type pilotless craft are used to target and engage.

So it is not so simple as may depicted by the media of these huge development centers clearly targeted by satellite visual and using a load and let go no need to guide missile at a target. The targets would be in motion, the fighters would fade in and fade out of the civilian population, and as in Iraq would most certain use high population centers as shields to create scenarios where there are heavy non-combatant causalities which could then be propagandized, used to excite the Muslims and fuel the Jihad.. IMHO of course.

Medclinician

References

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-0 - ^ http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Iran/Missile/3876_4103.html - Aerospace Industries Organization. Retrieved on May 13, 2008.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-1 - ^ It's assumed that AIO is responsible for Fajr-5's production since nti.org claims that AIO is responsible for producing missiles of all types except ballistic missiles.
^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-Brochure_2-0 - ^a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-Brochure_2-1 - ^b http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-Brochure_2-2 - ^c http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-Brochure_2-3 - ^d http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-Brochure_2-4 - ^e http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-Brochure_2-5 - ^f http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-Brochure_2-6 - ^g http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/images/fadjr-image01.jpg - Fajr-3 & Fajr-5 brochure. Retrieved on May 13, 2008.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-3 - ^ http://jedsite.info/artillery-foxtrot/foxtrot/fadjr_series/fadjr-5/fadjr5-intro.html - Fadjr-5. Retrieved on May 12, 2008.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-4 - ^ http://vitalperspective.typepad.com/vital_perspective_clarity/north_korea/index.html - Vital Perspective: North Korea. Retrieved on May 12, 2008.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-5 - ^ Foss, Christopher F ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006 - 2006 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_8 - 05-08 ). " http://www.janes.com/defence/news/jdw/jdw060508_1_n.shtml - Fadjr-5 artillery rocket system gets new chassis ", Jane's Information Group. Retrieved on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006 - 2006 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_30 - 07-30 .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-6 - ^ " http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-734511,36-799566@51-759824,0.html - Le Hezbollah tire des missiles "au-delà de Haïfa" alors que les raids aériens israéliens s'intensifient ", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Monde - Le Monde ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006 - 2006 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_29 - 07-29 ).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-7 - ^ Gannon, Kathy ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006 - 2006 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_28 - 07-28 ). " http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2250285 - Hezbollah Fires New Rockets Into Israel ", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press - Associated Press . Retrieved on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006 - 2006 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_30 - 07-30 .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-8 - ^ Roffe-Ofir, Sharon ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006 - 2006 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_28 - 07-28 ). " http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3282785,00.html - Fajr-5 missiles fired at Israel ", YNet. Retrieved on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006 - 2006 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_30 - 07-30 .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5#cite_ref-9 - ^ http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Iran/Missile/2420_2800.html - Iran's Missile Exports. Retrieved on May 12, 2008.

Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: September 02 2008 at 6:17am

We've been having loads of Israel propaganda commercials here the last couple days.

One asked what we in Minneapolis would do if we were having St. Paul residents launch missiles at us. Then talking about a nuclear armed Iran and the global disaster this would cause.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: September 02 2008 at 10:05am

Med ,what is all the hype (from the US Government) about Iran having nuclear tech? They already have nuky missiles... How much nuky does it take? nut much I imagine.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: September 03 2008 at 5:53am

Mary08 wrote:

Med ,what is all the hype (from the US Government) about Iran having nuclear tech? They already have nuky missiles... How much nuky does it take? nut much I imagine.

First, some of the ranks are softening in terms of Iran going nuclear considering the alternatives to starting a war over it. They may get away with it but we may not be able to stop Israel from attacking them anyway.

There are extremely detailed and probably not a great idea to post specs on our current arsenal and effective damage we could deliver from the U.S. nuclear stockpile via subs and missiles, and railguns, lasers, and weapons which are high yield. . The following is much simplified -

Both the US and Russia have the capability to detonate thermonuclear fusion bombs in excess of 100 million tons of TNT. It is very difficult to imagine an explosion like that, but the heat generated would either kill or maim anyone within a 10 mile radius of the detonation instantly. The resulting environmental destruction and radiation poisoning would kill or maim anyone within 25-50 miles, depending on the area struck, within the following 3 days. The radioactive fallout would have the capacity to cause a variety of serious illnesses for months afterward, the area would depend on the direction of the wind. Basically it would be a really big bummer.

Keep in mind that the explosive power of the Hiroshima bomb was only a very tiny fraction of a bomb like this, only 15,000 tons of TNT, (if I remember correctly) as opposed to 100,000,000 tons of TNT, kind of boggles the mind.

Saying more than this.. would be saying too much.

M.C.

Posted By: Graywolf
Date Posted: September 03 2008 at 6:21am

We had the same adds here when the DNC was here!!

-------------
Something wicked these way comes!!

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: September 03 2008 at 6:34am

that cheered me up... So wondering what is the point for them to posture like that, If we can all do the damage so well.

............................................................................

Posted By: LaRo
Date Posted: September 03 2008 at 9:45am

Not so quiet on the MID EASTERN FRONT.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north648.html

-------------
r we there yet?

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: September 03 2008 at 5:44pm

that guy writes-

"Why should this story not be front-page news?"

Because .......................we are at war is the answer.

not a time when voters get to weigh in.

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: September 04 2008 at 2:48pm

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1220186494776&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull - http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1220186494776&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

The Dutch intelligence service, the AIVD, has called off an operation aimed at infiltrating and sabotaging Iran's weapons industry due to an assessment that a US attack on the Islamic Republic's nuclear program is imminent, according to a report in the country's De Telegraaf newspaper on Friday.

The report claimed that the Dutch operation had been "extremely successful," and had been stopped because the US military was planning to hit targets that were "connected with the Dutch espionage action."

The impending air-strike on Iran was to be carried out by unmanned aircraft "within weeks," the report claimed, quoting "well placed" sources.

The Jerusalem Post could not confirm the De Telegraaf report.

According to the report, information gleaned from the AIVD's operation in Iran has provided several of the targets that are to be attacked in the strike, including "parts for missiles and launching equipment."

"Information from the AIVD operation has been shared in recent years with the CIA," the report said.

On Saturday, Iran's Deputy Chief of Staff General Masoud Jazayeri warned that should the United States or Israel attack Iran, it would be the start of another World War.

On Friday, Ma'ariv reported that Israel had made a strategic decision to deny Iran military nuclear capability and would not hesitate "to take whatever means necessary" to prevent Teheran from achieving its nuclear goals.

According to the report, whether the United States and Western countries succeed in thwarting the Islamic Republic's nuclear ambitions diplomatically, through sanctions, or whether a US strike on Iran is eventually decided upon, Jerusalem has begun preparing for a separate, independent military strike.

comment: This is still an unconfirmed report.

Medclinician

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: September 04 2008 at 3:40pm

http://www.metimes.com/Politics/2008/08/27/iran_general_says_israel_too_vulnerable_to_attack/afp/

readers link: http://tinyurl.com/6lj259 - http://tinyurl.com/6lj259

A military truck carries a long-range Iranian Shahab-3 Ballistic missile during an annual military parade in Tehran in 2007. The head of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards, General Mohammad Ali Jafari, has said Israel is too vulnerable to Iran's longer-range missiles to dare launch an attack. (AFP Atta Kenare)

Middle East Times
September 4, 2008 issue

TEHRAN (AFP) The head of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards, General Mohammad Ali Jafari, said on Wednesday that Israel is too vulnerable to Iran's longer-range missiles to dare launch an attack.

"Our strategic assessment shows that if the Zionist regime took action, whether alone or with the United States, in minimal time all of its territory would be vulnerable because this country lacks strategic depth and lies within the range of Iranian missiles," the Mehr news agency quoted him as saying.

"Iran's ballistic capabilities are such that the Zionist regime, with all the means at its disposal, has no way of countering them," the general added.

In recent months, several Israeli politicians have talked of the possibility of a pre-emptive military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities to avoid any possibility of Tehran acquiring an atomic weapon.

Iran has responded by threatening retaliatory strikes with its Shahab-3 missiles which have a nominal range of 2,000 kilometres (1,250 miles) -- enough to reach Israel.

"In the event of an attack against against Iran, the Israelis know that with the capabilities that the Islamic world and the Shiite world have in the region, they will suffer deadly strikes," Jafari said, alluding to the Shiite militant group Hezbollah across Israel's northern border with Lebanon.

He said an attack against Iran could come only from the United States and warned that in that event "our riposte will be swift, tough and unimaginable".

He said that the presence of US forces all around Iran's borders, in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Gulf, made them too vulnerable to reprisal attacks.

FYI Readers - Background -

What you should know about the Iranian Shahab-3 missile

Subject: What happens if an Iranian Ballistic Missile hits a US Carrier?
reefdiver 3/11/2006 10:57:54 AM

With their 100meter accuracy, its unlikely that the Iranians could hit a carrier which is constantly moving, but there are claims they do have several hundred BM. Lets assume they fire a bunch and get lucky - what might be the damage to the CVN if one hits? Also, are there any SM3's yet deployed in the theater that might be able to intercept them? How much time would the US have to respond after an Iranian launch in the Persian Gulf?

Shahab-3 / Zelzal-3

Technical Details

Range (km)	Basic: 1,280 km (800 miles) Variant: 1,903+ km (1,200 miles)
CEP (m)	190 (Previously thought to be several thousand meters)
Diam. (m)	1.32-1.35
Height (m)	15.852-16
L. W. (kg)	15,852-16,250
Stage Mass (kg)	15,092
D. W. (kg)	1,780-2,180
Thrust (Kg f)	Effective: 26,051 (-709) Actual: 26,760-26,600
Burn time (sec.)	110
Isp. (sec.)	Effective: 226 - SL due to vains steering drag loss of 4-5 sec. Actual: 230 Vac.: 264
Thrust Chamb.	1
Fuel	Liquid (TM-185) 20% Gasoline 80% Kerosene
Oxidizer	AK-27I 27% N₂O₄ 73% HNO₃ Iodium Inhibitor
Propellant Mass (kg)	12,912
Warhead (kg)	760-987-1,158
Type	MRBM

The Iranian Shahab-3 is a single-stage, liquid-fueled, road-mobile, medium-range ballistic missile with a range of approximately 800 miles (1,280 km). A MRBM variant, sometimes called Shahab-4, has a range of more than 1,200 miles (1,930 km).

Shahab-3 is capable of carrying a 1,000-760 kilogram warhead. Fewer than 20 launchers were deployed as of March 2006, according to Air Force Intelligence. The variant was not deployed at the time.

Shahab-3 means Meteor-3 or Shooting Star-3 in Farsi [alternatively designated Zelzal (Earthquake)] is derivative from the 1,300-1,500 kilometer range North Korean No-dong missile.

Design Heritage

The http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/missile/nd-1.htm - No-dong ballistic missile was developed by the North Korean's with Soviet Gorbachev era technical participation along with Chinese contributions and Iranian financial assistance. The former Soviet Union's technology transfer contribution is circumstantially strongly suspected as having come from the Acad. V. P. Makeyev OKB Design Bureau developers of the Soviet era Scud-B, and its follow on SLBM's and the Isayev OKB, S-2.713 rocket engine design which was used on the Soviet SS-N-4 SLBM. This was directly the results of strategic arms reduction treaties creating unemployment in a large Cadre of technically qualified personnel in the Makeyev OKB's essentially cancelled liquid propellant SLBM programs of the Former Soviet Union since no other form of employment was successfully offered to them. That highly modified Isayev OKB, S-2.713M rocket engine design strongly reflects its Scud-B design heritage but represents an entirely new liquid propellant rocket engine far beyond the growth potential of the modified Scud-B and C class engines for application to the No-dong. That No-dong engine also reflects modern Soviet rocket engine start up design technology such as the solid charge starter to spin up the turbo-pump, instead of start up propellant tanks, and the pyrotechnics used to open the propellant flow and to cut it off. It also reflects the typical on off rocket engine design philosophy used by the Soviets. All Soviet era SLBM's owe their design heritage to the Scud-A and Scud-B tactical ballistic missiles. China's contribution to the No-dong project came from the joint North Korean/Chinese project conducted between 1976-78, the cancelled DF-61 missile, essentially a Scud-C capability ballistic missile with a range of 600 km. carrying a 1,000 kg warhead that also featured a strap-down guidance system. Iran in fact decided to totally rework the North Korean No-dong design to their liking with Russian and now Chinese help but they have yet to successfully indigenously produce the whole vehicle to North Korea's standards.

Shahab-3 MRBM Variants

Iran had developed two variants of the Sharab-3 MRBM. The original version (left) has a range of approximately 800 miles (1,280 km), while a new variant (right) has a range of more than 1,200 miles (1,930 km). The variant is longer to carry more fuel and carries a different warhead (possibly cluster munitions)

MC

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References

Shahab-3 / Zelzal-3

Design Heritage