Do you believe in mandatory vaccination? Why?
Printed From: Avian Flu Talk
Category: Main Forums
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Description: (General discussion regarding the next pandemic)
URL: http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=29085
Printed Date: April 23 2024 at 9:00am
Topic: Do you believe in mandatory vaccination? Why?
Posted By: sgg51
Subject: Do you believe in mandatory vaccination? Why?
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 5:05pm
|
I am trying to start a meaningful discussion of vaccination reasons versus no vaccination reasons with evidenced-based independent studies that have no pharmaceutical ties or funding so we all can learn from each other. |
Replies:
Posted By: pheasant
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 6:23pm
|
My wife and myself, have been immunized for smallpox (were old ),tetanus, polio, and several other scourges of mankind, and have never gotten infected from the latter malady's. So I would have to say they worked, so I would qualify that as a meaningful reason for vaccination. ------------- The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 9:42pm
| I don't believe mandatory anything!!! |
Posted By: Penham
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 10:26pm
|
No I don't believe in mandatory vaccination at all, I freely choose to get myself and child flu vacinations every year. I have never had the flu and my teen did get the flu 3 years ago and had a much milder case than her classmates (she had a flu shot and Tamiflu).
I respect others rights to choose not to get the vaccination and I respect their opinion, just like I want MY OPINION respected. I am not changing my mind, and I doubt they will either. I have asthma as does my teen. We eat healthy, I work out at the gym 1-1/2 to 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and my teen is an athlete, so we are both healthy and physically fit at this point in our lives and do a lot to try to maintain a healthy lifestyle. In my book, preventative healthcare is just part of a healthy lifestyle.
|
Posted By: MelodyAtHome
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 11:06pm
|
I believe in freedom and liberty. No mandatory anything like FluMom says. ------------- Melody Emergency Preparedness 911 http://emergencypreparedness911.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: April 20 2013 at 10:19am
Pretty much this. Caveat: As long as it's medical related. Some things that are mandatory I agree with, such as child molesters should be registered and it should be mandatory. Actually, that should be un-necessary. They should be executed, and *THAT* should be mandatory. ------------- Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley |
FluMom wrote:Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 20 2013 at 11:42am
| Agree on child molesters/sex offenders. Mandatory they register and that execution for them should be mandatory for all child molesters. |
Posted By: sgg51
Date Posted: April 20 2013 at 7:09pm
|
Thank you for your responses. Flu mom. I am not trying to change your mind only to disseminate truth and facts that are substantiated by evidence-based science so that we all can be truly informed. 1. For those of you who chose to vaccinate what do you know about the risks if any from vaccination? 2. What solid evidence based science do you rely on that tells you that vaccines are safe and do work? 3. Does anyone know what some of the ingredients that go into producing a vaccine and what are the possible adverse reactions to them? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 20 2013 at 7:46pm
|
Grasshopper sgg41 no one could ever change my mind. I lived through the polio epidemic and was grateful that they have a vaccine for that along with a vaccine for smallpox, measles, meningitis and flu.
Until you live through the polio epidemic where parents who were smart did not let their children go to movies or swimming pools or had the fear that your child's life would be forever changed... then you will never understand what a blessing vaccines are despite their side effects. Yes I know what ingredients go into vaccines in fact I was asked by the CDC to attend a process to decide if and how to dispurse the H1N1 vaccine. The CDC is damned if they do and damned if they don't, but I for one are grateful for their work. Grasshopper do not think any of us who have been doing this for a long time are not aware of much information. |
Posted By: Penham
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 7:46am
|
I can only speak for myself. I am college educated and yes I have done the research and will continue to take the flu vaccine. I do pick and choose which vaccines my teen takes for the optional ones. We opt to take mennengitis because there have been outbreaks in our school, we do NOT do the Guardasil because I did not like the research findings.
Like Flumom said, most of us have been doing this for awhile.
|
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 7:49am
There are risks associated with anything. The question you have to ask yourself is a risk weight ratio for each. If you take the vaccination, are the possibilities that you have a bad side effect higher than the chances that you actually catch the malady that you took the vaccination to prevent? My math says that the odds of catching the disease associated with *ANY* vaccination far outweigh the odds of my having a bad reaction to a vaccine. When I say that I am possibly the most vaccinated person on this forum, it's not a stretch. I've got smallpox, anthrax, yellow fever, Hep A&B, typhoid, and about twelve others that I can't think of off the top of my head, and I have to get them every year! I'm due for another smallpox here in a month or two.
When was the last time you had to worry about catching smallpox? Polio? Measles? Tetanus? The fact that you haven't had to think of these problems is scientific fact that Vaccines are safe and work. The vast majority of people have been getting these vaccines for a number of years now and people are living longer.
Yup. Female pattern baldness, sensitivity to light, loose stool, anal leakage, halitosis, narcolepsy, kleptomania, pregnancy, and obesity. Oh and living longer, not having to worry about diseases, being awesome. ------------- Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley |
Posted By: quietprepr
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 11:43am
|
I have followed this topic with great interest for several years now. I do not believe anybody should be forced to take any meds they dont want. Having said this, I find that in my experience, the majority of those who say vaccines are the worst thing you can get have not lived through anything like Flumom described. I would not be able to live with myself if I kept my children from getting vaccinated and then had to watch them suffer and possibly die from a malady that was easily prevented.
There are risks associated with anything as Turbo said. hundreds of thousands of people die from smoking and alcohol related conditions every year, yet one person I know was lecturing me about vaccines with a glass of wine in hand. You make your choice and I make mine.
One thing I will say though...I feel if you refuse a vaccine...which is your right...then come down with the illness, I should not be required to pay for your medical treatment. Stay home and deal with your choice, just like I will if a vaccine gives me trouble.
Vaccines have saved millions upon millions of lives.
One other thing, if you do not want your child to recieve vaccines for things that could harm my child, please keep your child at home and away from children who could be effected by your choice. You have the right to make the choice for yourself and your children, but not to risk the health of mine. I do not want to sound harsh, I truly enjoy meaningful conversations like this, and I believe everyone should be able to choose. ------------- "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival." - W. Edwards Deming |
Posted By: sgg51
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 3:45pm
|
Enjoyed your simple sarcasm but for those who want to learn, here is cited factual information on health cost dollars from those who choose to receive the flu shot and contract Guillain-Barré syndrome. This is one of many adverse reactions from the flu shot. Possible Adverse Effects from the Flu Vaccine It has been estimated that 1:4000 will experience an adverse reaction, a lot more than the one in millions that are quoted or written. Reference: JAMA, June 19, 1999 vol. 281, no.21, pg.2132 Vaccine adverse event reporting system (VAERS) – Voluntary reporting system for adverse reaction to vaccines that was formed in 1986 to compensate citizens for injuries. It was set up because the government knows that vaccines can cause injuries and death and considers those results as a necessary sacrifice for the common good. Anyone can report adverse reaction to vaccines including parents, health workers or the one who experienced the adverse reaction. The FDA states that 1% to 10% of all Adverse Reactions are reported. NOTE: Adverse events are compared to doses distributed, not to doses administered, therefor expressed as a percentage of actual administered doses, adverse events could be significantly higher as no one knows how many doses are in storage. At a CDC conference call for 2009-2010 flu season there was 16, 234 adverse reactions to the flu shot. You can multiply that by at least 10 for a more accurate number of adverse reactions (162,340). Of the adverse reactions reported for the flu shot: Again multiply all statistics by at least 10 for a more accurate number. •46 were fatal
•605 considered non fatal – Ranges
from hospitalization to a sore arm or rash etc.
•93 reports of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) from the swine flu shot. 1:20 is fatal for someone that
develops GBS.
•112 reports of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) from the seasonal flu shot. 1:20 is fatal for someone that develops
GBS.
•Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) occurs
mostly from the flu shot and Hep-B,
but can be the result of other vaccines as well. It affects the nervous system and the patient
gets ascending paralysis that starts in your feet and goes on up both legs and
can reach your diaphragm and are placed on a ventilator or you die. A patient will usually spend 2 days to
6 months in
the hospital and usually on a ventilator.
In a severe case you may go through months or even years of rehab and
may never gain complete function back. The CDC’s position is that the number
affected statistically is insignificant compared to the number of shots
administered. But when it happens to you
it is very significant. It is also very
significant the amount of health care dollars spent to help these victims
recover not to mention there personal loss and the economic loss. In
the 2009-2010
flu
season there was a 125
reported
of GBS and 64
were
verified to be caused by the flu shot.
There were 268
reports of Anaphylaxis and 115
were verified to be caused by the flu shot.
The vaccine injury court had 433
injuries filed and 26
deaths=459 claims. 144
were compensated, 43
were
dismissed and 272
had pending claims. The average for
claims filed that get some kind of compensation is 25%.
The vaccine court looks for ways not to admit that vaccine(s) caused the injuries and looks for every way possible to
dismiss every case.
A 2004 Study in Neurology, The Official Journal of the American Academy of Neurology stated that “it costs the U.S., 1.7 billion a year to take care of these GBS patients or $319,000/patient due to vaccine induced GBS and most of the indirect costs were due to premature deaths.” If the government & Pharmaceuticals reached their goal of 100% vaccination in the world with 7 billion people that would come out to 1.6/1,000,000 vaccine induced GBS x 7 Billion = 11,200 cases x $319,000 = $3,572,800,000 health care dollars. |
Posted By: sgg51
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 4:06pm
|
This is for you Flu MOM. I hope you are not to old to learn old timer? Fear does wonders for your mythological belief system! Oral polio caused 47,500 non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP) in India in 2011 researchers reported “…while India has been polio-free for a year, there has been a huge increase in non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP). In 2011, there were an extra 47,500 new cases of NPAFP. Clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis but twice as deadly, the incidence of NPAFP was directly proportional to doses of oral polio received. Though this data was collected within the polio surveillance system, it was not investigated. The principle of primum-non-nocere [First, do no harm] was violated.” This was never on the evening news as are many other negative outcomes of vaccines. Reference: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22591873 - http:// http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22591873 - www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22591873 Jonas Salk, inventor of the Inactivated Polio Virus (IPV), testified before a Senate subcommittee that nearly all polio outbreaks since 1961 were caused by the oral polio vaccine. "Crib death" was so infrequent in the pre-vaccination era that it was not even mentioned in the statistics, but it started to climb in the 1950s with the spread of mass vaccination against diseases of childhood. - Harris L. Coulter, PhD.
The truth about Polio Dr. Bernard Greenberg, a biostatistics expert, was chairman of the Committee on Evaluation and Standards of the American Public Health Association during the 1950s. He testified at a panel discussion that was used as evidence for the congressional hearings on polio vaccine in 1962. During these hearings he elaborated on the problems associated with polio statistics and disputed claims for the vaccine's effectiveness. He attributed the dramatic decline in polio cases to a change in reporting practices by physicians. Fewer cases were identified as polio after the vaccination for very specific reasons. "Prior to 1954 any physician who reported paralytic poliomyelitis was doing his patient a service by way of subsidizing the cost of hospitalization and was being community-minded in reporting a communicable disease. The criterion of diagnosis at that time in most health departments followed the World Health Organization definition: "Spinal paralytic poliomyelitis: signs and symptoms of non-paralytic poliomyelitis with the addition of partial or complete paralysis of one or more muscle groups, detected on two examinations at least 24 hours apart." Note that "two examinations at least 24 hours apart" was all that was required. Laboratory confirmation and presence of residual paralysis was not required. In 1955 the criteria were changed to conform more closely to the definition used in the 1954 field trials: residual paralysis was determined 10 to 20 days after onset of illness and again 50 to 70 days after onset.... This change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with a longer-lasting paralysis. Furthermore, diagnostic procedures have continued to be refined. Coxsackie virus infections and aseptic meningitis have been distinguished from paralytic poliomyelitis. Prior to 1954 large numbers of these cases undoubtedly were mislabeled as paralytic poliomyelitis. Reference: From Intensive Immunization Programs, Hearings before the Committee on Interstate & Foreign Commerce, House of Representatives, 87th Congress, 2nd Session on H.R. 10541, Wash DC: Us Government Printing Office, 1962; p. 96-97
Simian
Virus 40 (SV40):A Cancer Causing
Monkey Virus from FDA-Appoved Vaccines
Between 1959 and 1960, Bernice Eddy, Ph.D., of the National Institute of Health (NIH) examined minced rhesus monkey kidney cells under a microscope. These were the cells of the same species of monkeys used to create and produce the oral polio vaccine. Dr. Eddy discovered that the cells would die without any apparent cause. She then took suspensions of the cellular material from these kidney cell cultures and injected them into hamsters. Cancers grew in the hamsters. Shortly thereafter, scientists at the pharmaceutical company Merck & Co. discovered what would later be determined to be the same virus identified by Eddy. This virus was named Simian Virus 40 or SV40 because it was the 40th simian virus found in monkey kidney cells. In 1960, Doctors Benjamin Sweet and Maurice Hilleman, the Merck scientists who named the virus SV40, published their findings: Viruses are commonly carried by monkeys and may appear as contaminants in cell cultures of their tissues, especially the kidney . . . . The discovery of this new virus, the vacuolating agent, represents the detection for the first time of a hitherto “non-detectable” simian virus of monkey renal cultures and raises the important question of the existence of other such viruses . . . . As shown in this report, all 3 types of Sabin’s live poliovirus vaccine, now fed to millions of persons of all ages, were contaminated with vacuolating virus.The vacuolating virus was another name for SV40. In 1962, Dr. Bernice Eddy published her findings in the journal produced by the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology. She wrote: There is now an impressive list of oncogenic (cancer causing) viruses—the rabbit papilloma, polyoma, Rous sarcoma, the leukemia viruses . . . . It has been known for a number of years that monkeys harbor latent viruses . . . . The (SV40) virus was injected at once into 13 newborn hamsters and 10 newborn mice. Subcutaneous neoplasms indistinguishable from those induced by the rhesus monkey kidney extracts developed in 11 of the 13 hamsters between 156 and 380 days. Subsequent studies performed in the early 1960s demonstrated that SV40 caused brain tumors in animals and that SV40 could transform or turn cancerous normal human tissue in vitro. A disturbing experiment performed during this era also suggested that SV40 could cause human cancers in man in vivo. In 1964, Fred Jensen and his colleagues took tissue from patients who were terminally ill with cancer. They exposed the tissue to SV40 and then after it was transformed, they implanted the tissue back into the patient. These implants grew into tumors in their human hosts. This suggested the possibility that SV40 could cause cancers in man. In July 2002, the National Academy of Science Institute of Medicine (IOM) Immunization Safety Committee convened a study into SV40 and cancer which culminated in a report published in October 2002. According to the IOM report “SV40 Contamination of Polio Vaccine and Cancer”: The committee concludes that the biological evidence is strong that SV40 is a transforming [i.e., cancer-causing] virus, . . . that the biological evidence is of moderate strength that SV40 exposure could lead to cancer in humans under natural conditions, [and] that the biological evidence is of moderate strength that SV40 exposure from the polio vaccine is related to SV40 infection in humans. Reference: http://www.sv40foundation.org/CPV-link.html - http://www.sv40foundation.org/CPV-link.html |
Posted By: sms
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 4:45pm
|
Turboguy I agree 100% with you on Child Molesters. Don't lock them up for a few years only to turn them loose again so they can do it again to another child. As far as mandatory vacinatons go first we have to know what does mandatory mean. During Hurricane Sandy they ordered Mandatory Evecuations and alot of people didn't leave and as far as I know not one was fined or locked up. I think we need to know what mandatory means by the word of the law. Can a hospital fire you for not getting the flu shot but every other person has a choice. I really don't have a answer. |
Posted By: DANNYKELLEY
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 4:53pm
|
Me and mine chose to get vacccinated,we know about the risk if we do not!!!If you chose for you and your family not to, who is taking the bigger gamble you or me!!?? ------------- WHAT TO DO???? |
Posted By: DANNYKELLEY
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 5:11pm
|
I own a small diner in indiana,i am face to face with everyone that walks in to my place .yes i think it should be mandatory for anybody that works with the public to get vacinatons .i dont understand why anybody has a problem with that.i would not want to get anyone sick that comes in to my place and i would hope they would feel the same!! ------------- WHAT TO DO???? |
Posted By: DANNYKELLEY
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 5:14pm
|
as for child molesters as a father and a grandfather KILLEM DEAD ------------- WHAT TO DO???? |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 6:33pm
Really, mythological?
Really? Ask yourself when the last case of a polio epidemic happened in the United States.
If you're not going to get a vaccine because you're fine with depending on herd immunity, that's cool. But for you to tell others that they should not get them and risk coming down with a malady that has been all but eradicated in the world, you're nothing but a snake oil salesman. Everything you've posted has been disproven time and again. So please, just stop.
When was the last time you caught the measels?
Tetanus?
Smallpox?
Mumps?
Whooping Cough?
Hepatitis A or B? ------------- Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 6:35pm
I'll be getting it, and I've gotten it every single year, and guess how many times I've gotten the flu.------------- Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 7:15pm
| New England Journal of med |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 7:18pm
The Effectiveness of Vaccination against Influenza in Healthy, Working AdultsKristin L. Nichol, M.D., M.P.H., April Lind, M.S., Karen L. Margolis, M.D., M.P.H., Maureen Murdoch, M.D., M.P.H., Rodney McFadden, M.D., Meri Hauge, R.N., Sanne Magnan, M.D., Ph.D., and Mari Drake, M.P.H. N Engl J Med 1995; 333:889-893 http://www.nejm.org/toc/nejm/333/14/ - October 5, 1995 DOI: 10.1056/NEJM199510053331401 BackgroundAlthough influenza causes substantial morbidity and mortality in all age groups, current recommendations emphasize annual immunization for people at high risk for complications of influenza. We conducted a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of vaccination against influenza in healthy, working adults MethodsIn the fall of 1994, we recruited working adults from 18 to 64 years of age from in and around the Minneapolis–St. Paul area and randomly assigned them to receive either influenza vaccine or placebo injections. The primary study outcomes included upper respiratory illnesses, absenteeism from work because of upper respiratory illnesses, and visits to physicians' offices for upper respiratory illnesses. The economic benefits of vaccination were analyzed by estimating the direct and indirect costs associated with immunization and with upper respiratory illnesses. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199510053331401#Methods - Full Text of Methods... ResultsWe enrolled a total of 849 subjects. Base-line characteristics were similar in the two groups. During the follow-up period, consisting of the 1994–1995 influenza season (December 1, 1994, through March 31, 1995), those who received the vaccine reported 25 percent fewer episodes of upper respiratory illness than those who received the placebo (105 vs. 140 episodes per 100 subjects, P<0.001), 43 percent fewer days of sick leave from work due to upper respiratory illness (70 vs. 122 days per 100 subjects, P = 0.001), and 44 percent fewer visits to physicians' offices for upper respiratory illnesses (31 vs. 55 visits per 100 subjects, P = 0.004). The cost savings were estimated to be $46.85 per person vaccinated. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199510053331401 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 8:52pm
|
Gee, guys when things get hot new people join us and try to covince us not to take vaccinations. Well, it has never worked in the past and it won't work now.
I believe we now know sgg51 does not believe in vaccines and we respect his right to not take them but PLEASE sgg51 enough on this subject. We have better things to write about. For me I am done with this subject! |
Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 9:04pm
|
I am pretty ANTI-vaccine for routine stuff like the flu. It would have to be a pretty severe disease for me to accept the risks accociated with vaccinations.
I had the measles, chicken pox, whooping cough, lots of flu, and also got the smallpox vaccine in my right eye when I will a child. I almost lost my eye to this.
I feel that the small, but extreme, dangers of vaccines outweigh the slight benefits that we might get from them.
I don't want anybody injecting me with toxic metals or known carcinogens for something that we routinely get over such as the flu.
If you think vaccines are truly safe then you need to read about it.
POLIO:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40
http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/95/7/532.abstract - http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/95/7/532.abstract (Cancer incidence in Denmark)
One of my all time favorites! Read the interview with Merck scientist, Maurice Hilleman.
http://www.naturalnews.com/033584_Dr_Maurice_Hilleman_SV40.html - http://www.naturalnews.com/033584_Dr_Maurice_Hilleman_SV40.html
Dr Maurice Hilleman: …Right. So then the next thing you know is, 3, 4 weeks after that we found that there were tumors popping up on these hamsters.
Stuff found in vaccines;
Formaldehyde (known carcinogen & used to preserve cadavers)
Aluminum (causes alzheimer's and dementia)
MSG or Monosodium Glutamate, (an excitotoxin)
Thimerosal (preservative that is still found in some vaccines & is toxic to the brain/kidneys)
I think this is still found in multi-dose vaccines, but not the individual vaccines.
http://www.aapsonline.org/vaccines/cdcfdaexperts.htm - Read this if you think the CDC has all the answers about vaccine safety!
http://www.aapsonline.org/vaccines/cdcfdaexperts.htm - http://www.aapsonline.org/vaccines/cdcfdaexperts.htm (snippets pasted below)
Objectives
Documents released through the Freedom of Information Act detail the transcript of a meeting held in June of 2000 between members of the CDC, the FDA, and representatives from the vaccine industry. Although this conference is apparently concerned with the effects of mercury in the form of thimerosal on infant brain development, participants seemed to have limited knowledge about mercury. None of the well known experts were invited, such as Dr. Ascher from Bowman Grey School of Medicine or Dr. Boyd Haley, who has done extensive work on the toxic effects of low concentrations on the CNS. Dr. Johnston, pg. 14-15 & 19-20: (Chair of the meeting and a pediatrician-immunologist at the University of Colorado): “Thimerosal is cleaved (in the body) into ethylmercury and thiosalicylate which is inactive… The data on its toxicity (shows) it can cause neurologic and renal toxicity, including death.” There are just a host of neurodevelopmental data that would suggest that we’ve got a serious problem.
Dr. Weil, pg. 24: the potential for aluminum and central nervous system toxicity was established by dialysis data. To think there isn’t some possible problem here is unreal.”
This research is on-going for a reason! ______________________________________________________________
How can anyone want a routine flu vaccine after Baxter put live H5N1 avian flu viruses in it's flu vaccine????
http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2009/03/07/live-avian-flu-virus-placed-in-baxter-vaccine-materials-sent-to-18-countries/ - http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2009/03/07/live-avian-flu-virus-placed-in-baxter-vaccine-materials-sent-to-18-countries/
"Deerfield, Illinois-based pharmaceutical company Baxter International Inc. has just been caught shipping live avian flu viruses mixed with vaccine material to medical distributors in 18 countries."
"In addition, http://www.infowars.net/articles/november2005/081105birdflu.htm - - as we have exhaustively documented on this website for years , is the fact that elites throughout history have openly stated that they want to see a world population reduction of around 80 per cent. Shocking stories like this take the plausibility of that narrative out of the realms of conspiracy theory and into the dangerous reality of conspiracy fact."
______________________________________________________________ You can find an abundance of information on the internet pro & con regarding vaccine safety, BUT THE JURY IS STILL OUT on vaccine safety! There are on-going studies examined by the CDC. If vaccines were totally safe, why do they continue to study vaccine safety?
Some risks are small, but the actual health problems can be quite severe. Do you want to play Russian Roulette with your health for something as benign as the flu in a healthy adult?
If you get the flu, and get over it as most healthy adults do, you can get a lifelong immunity to it.
"As many as sixty million people were infected with the H1N1 virus, although only about 18,000 people are known to have died from the disease. What researchers are now discovering is what swine flu leaves behind: a superpowered immune system with antibodies that can kill off any new flu virus, not just a return of H1N1."
http://io9.com/5730895/swine-flu-gives-its-survivors-supercharged-immunity-could-create-universal-flu-vaccine - http://io9.com/5730895/swine-flu-gives-its-survivors-supercharged-immunity-could-create-universal-flu-vaccine
|
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 9:29pm
|
Slight benefits?
I'll ask again: when was the last time you caught typhoid? Hep a or b? Smallpox? So you don't believe in vaccines, and yet readily admit to having contracted the measles and whooping cough? LOL!!! You just proved my point for me. I've never caught polio, measles, mumps, hepatitis (though know for a 100% fact that I was exposed because the dirtball spit blood in my face) smallpox, whooping cough, tetanus, etc and haven't ever even had to give them a second thought. Not even once. I'd say that the fact that I don't now, nor ever have had to worry about catching any of the above is a bit more than a "slight benefit." And find me something that isn't a carcinogen. Aluminum is gained from drinking everything from milk to soda and beer. Mono sodium glutamate is in pretty muc every food you've ever eaten. Next time you're enjoying a pack of Doritos, know that MSG is part of your snack. ------------- Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley |
Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 9:37pm
|
Turbo,
This is my opening statement above.
"I am pretty ANTI-vaccine for routine stuff like the flu. It would have to be a pretty severe disease for me to accept the risks associated with vaccinations. "
I'm not 100% anti-vaccine, but getting them routinely, year after year, for the flu is not an acceptible risk for me. That oral vaccine for polio that I took in the 50's had cancer cells in it. You are also totally ignoring what Baxter did by putting live H5N1 in their vaccines? How can you argue with that?
Also, judging by the fact that you replied so quickly demonstrates that you didn't bother reading much of what I posted.
And for your edification, I had the whooping cough vaccine as a child, but caught the new strain that was circulating. I did not die from it either.
The fact is that you are so pro vaccine that you refuse to read the literature, even that which I posted from the CDC!
|
Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: April 28 2013 at 10:38pm
|
If you think vaccines are safe, then you MUST watch this short video.
Vaccines will be used to modify human behavior.
http://beforeitsnews.com/health/2013/04/leaked-pentagon-video-flu-vaccine-use-to-modify-human-behavior-2483804.html - http://beforeitsnews.com/health/2013/04/leaked-pentagon-video-flu-vaccine-use-to-modify-human-behavior-2483804.html
|
Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: April 29 2013 at 2:10am
|
Living in a risk area I was once late with my vaccination for hepatis - and as a result had a "mild" case - I was only off work for 6 weeks, and my BMI dropped below 18. I have never felt so weak (and not to mention throwing up all over my wife). Normally we don't get flu shots but when the swine flu came around, I encouraged my wife to get the vaccine as she is in a number of risk categories, and being a new strain things might go badly with her. I fortuantely am in none of the risk categories and so I was not eligable for the vaccine before the flu came to our area [here vaccines were rationed by risk groupings] I still had not made up my mind before events took the decision out of our hands, although I was leaning towards not having the vaccine as it seemed that I was in the age bracket that seemed to have some resistance. As H7N9 seems to be targetting older people, I might be more likely to consider a vaccine for it IF one was available in time. |
Posted By: Penham
Date Posted: April 29 2013 at 6:48am
|
Ok, everyone gets it, everyone has the right to choose if they want to get one or not. I don't think anyone on this board is going to change anothers mind about their decision on whether to take a vaccine or not, so it is pretty much a mute point. And we don't need 10 different posts about whether it's safe to get the vaccine or not because someone wants to push their personal agenda. It's getting old. I guess I've been here too long , lol, I'm getting old and cranky, lol.
|
Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: April 29 2013 at 4:28pm
|
Excuse me, but I thought this was a discussion forum. How can you censure us because you don't believe in the things that we do? If you think that vaccinations are great and wonderful then that's you're opinion which you're fully entitled to. You don't need to follow this particular blog. But, you have no right to tell us not to write about this anymore just because you've heard it already and don't agree!
How can you moderate anything in a fair and unbiased way? The wonderful thing about this world is that we have the right to read what we want to. If you don't like what we've written, then you don't have to read it!
I have no personal agenda, but it seems like you do.
If you want to censure someone, then censure those people who like to laugh and ridicule others for having different points of view. There has been a lot of nastiness on this forum and I have gotten quite sick of the name calling and sarcasm. Censure THAT!
Some of us on this particular blog have done extensive research on vaccines and post here in an attempt to enlighten others. You don't have to agree by any means. People should have information on both sides of a subject and if this subject comes up again, I will be there to post on it.
At one point in my life I was very pro-vaccine. I used to get the flu shots every year until I started reading the research. It was this research that changed my mind and people have the right to know even if you don't agree.
|
Posted By: Penham
Date Posted: April 29 2013 at 5:44pm
| Elver, I have not censured anyone regarding this topic. All I was stating was it gets old when an obvious new member comes here pushing an agenda, any agenda, regardless of the topic, the most recent just happens to be this subject. Yes, it is a discussion forum. Actually I look at every thread because I'm a moderator, so in a sense I do follow them. No, I do not have a personal agenda, but I will definitely post my opinion, if I feel like it, most topics I like to keep my mouth shut! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 29 2013 at 7:39pm
| Hey, if you don't believe in vaccines don't take them if you do take them but you will not convience the other of the others stance. A good reason to not discuss like religion and politics. |
Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: April 29 2013 at 9:54pm
|
I couldn't disagree with you more. Statistically speaking, 96% of the people who have their minds made up will not change them, but 4% are open to embracing a new idea. It is this 4% that I hope to share information with. I am not offended by your beliefs, so you shouldn't be offended by mine.
I used to get the flu shot every year, so I guess I was one of the 4% who was open to embracing a new idea. So, I am proof that information can change a person's mind.
Why is it that the subject of vaccinations should not be discussed? If you are that offended by my anti-vaccine stance, then perhaps it is you who should not be reading these posts. But, do not tell me what I shouldn't post based on your view of the world. You have the option of simply not reading it which is what I would advise you to do at this point rather than tell me what I shouldn't be posting here.
There are many people here who would love to censure things they don't believe in. Hopefully, you are not one of them. There are also those people on this forum who continually belittle, laugh at or call other people derogatory names because they don't believe the same things. Those are the people who need censorship, not I!
I HAVE NO AGENDA OTHER THAN PROVIDING INFORMATION! You have the option of disagreeing with me or simply not reading it. If you disagree, then let's have a discussion. This is, after all bird flu forum, and flu vaccines should be open for discussion, not CENSORSHIP!
sgg51 who started this post sent me a 116 page power point regarding vaccinations. I highly recommend that you ask him to send it to you. It is saved in Office 2000 format, but if you have an older version of office I'm sure he would be happy to save it in an older version. I am positive that anyone who reads it would be enlightened. I've only read a little so far, but the history of vaccinations is very interesting and would undoubtedly surprise you. You can drag it to your desktop and scan it if you're worried about receiving a virus.
Therefore, I am glad that sgg51 came on this forum because I have more to read on the subject because of him. Just because you're not willing to read what we post doesn't mean that others feel the same way!
|
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 3:29am
|
just look at what has happened in UK Wales, people not getting there kids vaccinated, now there is an epidemic of Measles, one dead more very very sick, you must have rocks in your head if you dont vaccinate your child, here in Australia, your kids cant go to school unless they up to date on there vaccinations ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 3:31am
|
More than 2,500 people have received MMR vaccinations in a fourth weekend of special clinics to tackle the Swansea measles epidemic. Health board officials welcomed the high turnout at sessions in Swansea, Neath Port Talbot and Bridgend. The figure includes 570 people who received jabs at the first clinic to be held in Llanelli, Carmarthenshire. More than 940 measles cases have been confirmed with 83 people needing hospital treatment. Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University Health Board (ABM), which covers the Swansea area, plans more evening drop-in clinics during the coming week. The number of cases in the epidemic which began last November could pass 1,000 over the weekend if current trends http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22318588#" rel="nofollow - continue . Dr Sara Hayes, ABM Director of Public Health, said they were really pleased to see so many people attending the clinics on Saturday.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22318588#story_continues_2" rel="nofollow - Continue reading the main story Evening drop-in MMR clinics this week
"By having your MMR you are not only protecting yourself from a horrible virus, but others such as very young babies and people who are vulnerable because they are having treatment for conditions like cancer. "We are particularly targeting children and teenagers aged between 10 and 18 years of age who probably missed having the MMR when they were little. "We are going in to more secondary schools offering the MMR, but if you don't want to wait or miss the session in school we are running some evening drop-in clinics next week or you can go to your GP." Schools targetedThe neighbouring Hywel Dda health board said around 570 people were vaccinated at the first drop-in clinic held in Llanelli, Carmarthenshire. The board described it as "very successful" with the ages of the people who received the vaccination ranging from six months to 94 years old. Sixty five cases have been confirmed in Llanelli since the http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22318588#" rel="nofollow - start of the year. All schools in the Hywel Dda region - which covers Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire - will offer vaccinations to an estimated 4,000 schoolchildren over the next four weeks. Two other health boards - Anuerin Bevan and Cardiff and Vale - held drop-in MMR clinics on previous weekends. Cases have also been identified in north Powys, and the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board serving north Wales is beginning a programme of vaccination sessions in schools. 
Gareth Colfer-Williams was suffering from measles but had other health problems
So far, only one suspected death has been linked to the measles outbreak. Further tests are to be carried out on Gareth Colfer-Williams, 25, from Swansea, to establish the cause of death. He had measles but was known to have suffered other health problems including asthma. A post-mortem examination proved inconclusive. Meanwhile the Welsh Conservatives' health spokesman has called for a public inquiry. Darren Millar told his party conference in Swansea: "Once this epidemic has subsided - as it eventually will - the Welsh Conservatives will press for a public inquiry into the outbreak to ensure that lessons can be learned." In England, a £20m catch-up campaign already has 1.2 million vaccines ready to go amid concerns that that a generation of children have low levels of protection against measles after the MMR scare more than a decade ago. The campaign aims to vaccinate children yet to be protected with the MMR - measles, mumps and rubella - jab by September. Run through GPs, schools and community groups, it will focus on children aged 10 to 16. ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 3:44am
|
and would you want Mumps as an adult NAH never very very painful and you end up sterile!!!!, if you not been vaccinated you just living off the rest of us that have "herd cover" ever heard of it ??? it means you covered by the very fact the rest of us have had a shot , so the BUG cant infect most so it dies out, the more not vaccinated the more chance you got of getting very sick , and putting your kids at risk, me i have never hesitated, ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 3:47am
Measles outbreak: New figures expected to show more than 1,000 casesPublic Health Wales will release the latest figures on the day an inquest is opened into the death of a 25-year-old who is confirmed to have had measles
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/new-measles-figures-expected-show-3190234" rel="nofollow - -
-
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/new-measles-figures-expected-show-3190234#" rel="nofollow - - - Share on print
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/new-measles-figures-expected-show-3190234#" rel="nofollow - - - Share on email
Cases of measles in one of the biggest epidemics seen in the UK for more than two decades is likely to top 1,000 today as the latest figures are released. The latest numbers will be released later by Public Health Wales and are expected to show another jump from last week’s figure of 942. In the past few weeks, health officials have seen up to 20 new cases a day and, despite a widespread vaccination programme, many people in the Swansea area, where the epidemic is centred, are still at risk. The figures come as an inquest into the death of a 25-year-old man is opened today. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/heartbroken-family-pay-tribute-suspected-2820631" rel="nofollow - Gareth Colfer-Williams was found dead at his Swansea flat and was confirmed to have had measles at the time. An initial post-mortem by Swansea coroner was found to be inconclusive about whether the virus was the cause of death. Despite this, officials have said that, as long as the epidemic continues to grow they “would not be surprised” to see a death in Wales. Although the outbreak, which is one of the biggest since the introduction of the MMR in 1988, is centred on Swansea, rates of measles are high throughout the Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University (ABMU), Powys and Hywel Dda health board areas, especially in Neath Port Talbot and north Powys. The current outbreak has dwarfed previous outbreaks seen in Wales since the introduction of the MMR, with the previous highest figure reaching 159 in 2009, while 116 cases were recorded in 2012. A major schools vaccination programme is continuing in South and West Wales as health officials try to target at-risk children, in particular those aged between 10 and 18 years old. It is thought that many in this group may have missed the MMR because of Andrew Wakefield’s now discredited research which linked the vaccine to autism. Schools in the Swansea and Neath Port Talbot will be visited for the third week in a row, while vaccinations will start in schools in Bridgend from next week. Yesterday, officials from Hywel Dda Health Board started visiting schools in Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire for the first time since the outbreak started. Dr Marion Lyons, director of health protection at Public Health Wales, urged parents to consent to their children having the MMR vaccine before the summer examinations start. She said: “Young people have important examinations coming up and we need to make sure that those aged between 10 and 18 are vaccinated so their preparation for these examinations are not affected. “We have seen that measles can be potentially fatal and no one should be complacent about the severity of measles. It can kill but can be prevented by a simple, safe vaccine.” Professor Tom Horlick-Jones, an expert in risk and health at Cardiff University’s school of social sciences who predicted a measles crisis a decade ago following the distrust of the MMR, said that young people needed to be persuaded to have the vaccine. He said: “Having the jab needs to be seen as a ‘cool’ sort of thing to have. If you haven’t had it done, then you’re missing the boat, not keeping up with the crowd. “We need some teenage role models to come forward and be seen to have the jab. Young people often have strong, idealistic views about how they would like the world to be. Here’s the chance for them to remind their parents of what needs to be done.” Last weekend, 1,900 vaccinations were given at drop-in clinics in the ABMU aream while other sessions were also held by Aneurin Bevan Health Board and Hywel Dda. Evening drop-in sessions will take place between 5.30pm and 8.30pm tomorrow at Neath Port Talbot Hospital. Two more clinics will take place on Thursday, May 2 between 6pm and 9pm at the Princess of Wales Hospital, Bridgend, and Morriston Hospital, Swansea. Those attending have been asked not to arrive early so they do not disrupt other clinics. ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 4:04am
New vaccines to join immunisation schedule30 April, http://www.nursingtimes.net/nursing-practice/clinical-zones/immunology/new-vaccines-to-join-immunisation-schedule/5058104.article?blocktitle=News&contentID=4385#" rel="nofollow - 2013 | By The Press Association Vaccination programmes to protect millions more Britons against flu, shingles and diarrhoea have been added to the UK’s immunisation schedule. http://subs.nursingtimes.net/" rel="nofollow -
Subscribe to Nursing Times and get unlimited FREE access to all Nursing Times Learning units
http://www.nursingtimes.net/online-nurse-training-courses/" rel="nofollow - Nursing Times Learning Children of the age of two, approximately 650,000, will be given a nasal flu vaccine from September as part of a wider vaccination programme. Pilots to vaccinate primary school children and those of a younger age will operate in some areas to ensure the programme is ready for all pre-school and primary school children in 2014. Pilots for secondary school children will operate in some areas next year with the intention of branching out the programme in 2015. There will be a shingles vaccination programme for 70-year-olds and a catch-up programme for those aged 79 or below. The idea is to reduce the 30,000 cases seen each year in people over 70 by 40%. The programme will start in September, with approximately 800,000 people set to be vaccinated in the first 12 months. A rotavirus vaccination programme will begin in July that will see children less than four months old vaccinated against rotavirus - the cause of around 140,000 diarrhoea cases each year in children under the age of five. Almost one in 10, approximately 14,000 children with rotavirus, are forced to spend time in hospital. It is predicted the vaccine will reduce the number of vomiting and diarrhoea cases brought on by rotavirus by 50%, which could lead to 70% fewer hospital stays. Dr Mary Ramsay, head of immunisation at Public Health England, added: “The introduction of the oral rotavirus vaccine in the US and parts of Europe has had a major impact on preventing young children from developing this unpleasant vomiting and diarrhoeal disease. “The vaccine is very easy to administer and involves placing a droplet of liquid into the babies’ mouths. In the countries where the vaccine has already been introduced, the uptake has been high and has resulted in rapid and sustained reductions in childhood rotavirus hospitalisations. “We are excited to be offering this vaccine as part of the national infant immunisation programme in the UK. “As well as the rotavirus vaccine for infants, the upcoming introduction of childhood influenza and adolescent MenC immunisation programmes along with routine vaccination against shingles for older adults will all http://www.nursingtimes.net/nursing-practice/clinical-zones/immunology/new-vaccines-to-join-immunisation-schedule/5058104.article?blocktitle=News&contentID=4385#" rel="nofollow - continue to contribute to our highly successful vaccination programme which we can boast in the UK.”
Are you able to Speak Out Safely? https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/46631" rel="nofollow - Sign our petition to put pressure on your trust to support an open and transparent NHS.
Related images
Linked Articles
------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: Jen147
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 7:43am
Totally agree!!! Execution pronto... they can NOT be rehabilitated, studies have shown it and "they" have admitted they can't control themselves. Innocence is stolen. Little lives are FOREVER changed. There isn't a sentence harsh enough in my opinion, beside maybe burning in the lake of fire forever & ever where the worm dieth not. Sounds about right.
|
Posted By: Jen147
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 8:05am
The exact cause of Guillain-Barre syndrome is unknown. In about 60 percent of cases, an infection affecting either the lungs or the digestive tract precedes the disorder. Recent surgery, immunization and pregnancy have also been associated with Guillain-Barre syndrome. But scientists don't know why such an infection can lead to Guillain-Barre syndrome for some people and not for others. Many cases appear to occur without any triggers.In Guillain-Barre syndrome, your immune system — which usually attacks only foreign material and invading organisms — begins attacking the nerves that carry signals to your brain. In the most common form of Guillain-Barre syndrome in North America, the nerves' protective covering (myelin sheath) is damaged, and this interferes with the signaling process, causing weakness, numbness or paralysis. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/guillain-barre-syndrome/DS00413" rel="nofollow - http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/guillain-barre-syndrome/DS00413 What causes GBS?Many things can cause GBS; about two-thirds of people who develop GBS symptoms do so several days or weeks after they have been sick with diarrhea or a respiratory illness. Infection with the bacterium http://www.cdc.gov/pulsenet/pathogens_pages/campylobacter_jejuni.htm" rel="nofollow - |
Posted By: Jen147
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 8:07am
| You are no more likely to get GBS if you get a vaccine that you would be of getting GBS by the flu itself. Infections make up the majority of cases of GBS. |
Posted By: 1NiceGuy
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 2:58pm
|
I think the best source on vaccines is Dr. Russel Blaylock a very esteemed neurosurgeon. In an interview he stated: Dr. Blaylock: Well, it's a violation of the Nuremberg medical code, for one, you know this was to protect the public against being experimental animals for governments or vaccine companies. So suddenly we have this violation of Nuremberg protection, saying that you should be forced into a vaccine trial. And if your health is destroyed during testing of this experimental vaccine, then that's just the price you pay for living in this society. Well that's not certainly consistent with the founding of this republic, that people are forcibly put into experimental trials. Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035624_Russell_Blaylock_interview_vaccines.html#ixzz2RzD6dVa1" rel="nofollow - http://www.naturalnews.com/035624_Russell_Blaylock_interview_vaccines.html#ixzz2RzD6dVa1 ------------- "Chance favors the prepared mind." Louis Pasteur -- Louis Pasteur |
Posted By: quietprepr
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 7:26am
------------- "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival." - W. Edwards Deming |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 1:30pm
I didn't see what you're talking about. She didn't delete any of your posts, and thus didn't censor you in the least.
Ahhhh but that's the beauty! The First Amendment goes both ways. If I don't like what you say, and I read it anyway, I can say anything I want about your argument and poke as many holes in your logic as I want. Free Speech is a a double edged sword. Get used to it, especially if you're going to be the first to bring it up.
Oh, so now we can't laugh faulty arguments not based in reality? I thought you were all about free speech? See Elver, you've always been like this, it's just that nobody brings it up: You think that your arguments are above reproach and get all butthurt and indignant whenever someone pokes holes in your positions. I've seen you howl for Mahshadin's eviction from this forum no fewer than twenty times because he had a little fun with your ideas and positions.
Oh? Are you a medical professional? Do you have a degree in epidemiology? Virology? Published papers of dangers of vaccination? I regularly converse with the Director of Cytopathology of a large military hospital. Read that again: I have the opportunity to regularly talk with a Pathologist. He says to get the vaccine and that people that howl not to are snake oil salesmen. As he is literally one of about 200 specialists in his field, I'll go with whatever he says.
Great. Rock on, I'm glad you have your opinions, but they're OPINIONS. For every source your provide screaming that there's a chance that you could get a malady from a Vaccine, there are twenty that say the chances of which are negligibly low. Vaccines are like anything in this world: A Game of Russian Roulette. If the chances of me having a bad reaction to a Polio or Flu vaccine are 1 in 300,000 I'll take those odds with a smile on my face.
Just as you say that people have a right to know your position even if I don't agree, they have the same right to know that I DO NOT agree with you too. ------------- Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley |
Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: May 03 2013 at 8:49pm
|
Turbo,
The problem with trying to have any discussion with you is that when you disagree, rather than simply presenting evidence to back up your argument or even discussing things in a civilized manner, you like to put people down. I don't care if anyone disagrees with me, but all to often, you simply "LOL" or try to make the other person feel as if their opinions are stupid or don't matter.
Above, for instance, you argue that I'm not a medical professional, but then neither are you.
Also, you referred to me as getting "butthurt". I don't care if people disagree with me one bit. I do care how they disagree and you have a bad habit of trying to put people down in the process. There is no need to get nasty & sarcastic.
Above you also said; "I've seen you howl for Mahshadin's eviction from this forum" For starters I never knew of Mahshadi's eviction, and never "howled" as you said above. I thought he just quit on his own. So, where on earth did you come up with this?
When a senior moderator says that they're tired of hearing it and assumes that anyone opposing routine vaccines has an agenda it sure sounds to me as if they are trying to get us to drop the subject. It sure felt like sensorship to me, but I plowed on and ignored it anyway at the risk of getting kicked off this forum. I felt that it was intimidation of a sort. If I was kicked off the forum for expressing my opinions on the matter, then it wouldn't be a forum.
If you have faith in your patholotist I don't really care. I simply state my opinions and try to provide information that I happen to agree with. I don't dislike the fact that anyone has an opposing opinion, I dislike the manner in which they disagree. Why can't you simply state your position rather than trying to make personal attacks all the time?
Once again you wrote; "For every source your provide screaming" Well, I don't scream, but I'm really sick and tired of your sarcasm.
Your pathologist doesn't believe that routine vaccines can harm people, but there are other pathologists who would disagree with him and a whole bunch of doctors too. Attached is a letter from a pathogist who disagrees with a mandatory hepatits B vaccine in Virginia.
http://www.aapsonline.org/stateis/vavac.htm - http://www.aapsonline.org/stateis/vavac.htm
You might want to read this doctor's opinion regarding routine vaccines.
http://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-issues/doctors-speak/the-case-against-immunizatons/ - http://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-issues/doctors-speak/the-case-against-immunizatons/
In fact, our own CDC is still studying the safety of vaccines! If they had already been proven to be totally safe, then why are they wasting their time doing this?
Just because you disagree with opinions different than your own doesn't mean that their agruments are "faulty arguments" as you said above. They're only "faulty arguments" according to your opinion. This tactic is another form of a put down.
Lastly, sgg51 sent me a huge power point that you might be interested in. All you have to do is e-mail him. Even if your mind is 100% made up it wouldn't hurt you to listen to other evidence on this issue if you wanted to. But stop trying to blast me with more of your sarcasm because you don't agree with me.
|
Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: May 04 2013 at 12:53am
|
The EPA classifies a liquid with 200 parts per billion of mercury as hazardous waste. The limit for drinking water is only 2 parts per billion.
A typical flu shot contains 50,000 parts per billion of mercury. (5 millileter flu shot)
Hepatitis B contains 250 micrograms per shot
DTaP contains up to 625 micrograms per shot
Hepatitis A contains 25p micrograms per shot
Anthrax contains 600 mg of aluminum per shot
Anything greater than 25mcg is supposed to be labeled with;
"
WARNING: This product contains aluminum that may be toxic. Aluminum may reach toxic levels with prolonged parenteral administration if kidney function is impaired. Premature neonates are particularly at risk because their kidneys are immature, and they require large amounts of calcium and phosphate solutions, which contain aluminum. ...etc. Vaccines are exempt from this warning and are not required to follow the maximum dosage of 25mcg.
Read the Dr. Sears article about aluminum here. http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/vaccines/vaccine-faqs - http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/vaccines/vaccine-faqs
Now watch the video on how mercury destroys the brain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtFsy0rQsak - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtFsy0rQsak
According to Lilly's Material Safety Data Sheet, Thimerosal contains 49.6% w/w organically-bound mercury.
The EPA states the level of mercury an adult can receive safely is 0.8mcg/day.
The FDA safe level is <1mcg of mercury/gram of fish and the Japanese Gov. said that a safe level is <0.3 mcg/gram of fish.
Thimerisol has been removed from most childhood vaccines & I believe the single dose flu vaccine. The multi-dose vials need to be shaken every time to disperse the Thimerosal evenly or the last dose may contain more than 25mcg.
Thimerisol is still in tetanus toxoid, multi-dose seasonal flu vaccines all H1N1 (swine flu shots) and meningococcal vaccines as a preservative.
My conclusion is this. You may not have any adverse effects from the shots you've been given so far, but you may as you get older. You may have an increased risk of alzheimer's, kidney disease, neurological problems, etc. Take your chances at your own peril down the road.
The CDC has now recognized that the mercury in the preservative Thimerosol is dangerous and has taken steps to remove it from children's vaccines. If you're going to get a flu shot, then ask for Thimerosol free or single dose vials. |
Posted By: Penham
Date Posted: May 04 2013 at 8:39am
|
Since my name keeps being brought up here. I stand my ground that yes, I do believe that when a new person comes here and the only thing they post about is one or two topics that they are against, yes they have an agenda. I have not censored anyone! And yes, even though I am a mod, I have feelings and thoughts too and I suppose I am not allowed to post them? Sorry but I am also a member, so I can post my thoughts and feelings just like everyone else. As far as moderating/banning etc. we're pretty loose here, per Albert, the owners request, we have had to do some heavy moderating and banning in the past but it's been awhile. We don't like to, we believe in free speech and letting people express their opinions. The swineflu board is very heavily moderated for people who would like a different option, a lot of bird flu discussion going on over there right now.
You can tell when a member is coming here to learn about something or wants to ask questions regarding a topic. A lot of people are afraid to ask questions because of the responses they get from other people, they are afraid of getting "jumped on" for what they say. So they just don't ask. I've seen people get jumped on a million times on message boards, I've been hanging on them for 15 years. This is a place for people to learn from and for information to be shared. We are here to help people, share information and answer questions.
|
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: May 04 2013 at 5:40pm
|
here,here , Penham ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: May 04 2013 at 8:15pm
|
Penham,
On page 2 of this thread you said; "And we don't need 10 different posts about whether it's safe to get the vaccine or not because someone wants to push their personal agenda. It's getting old."
Above you also said; "A lot of people are afraid to ask questions because of the responses they get from other people, they are afraid of getting "jumped on" for what they say."
(Gee, I wonder why.)
It sure seemed to me that you were trying to intimidate anyone from speaking further on this subject regarding an opposing view from your own.
Then above you said that this is a forum that we can learn from. Well, no one can learn from another person if they're intimidated not to post anything again.
Well, this sgg51 surely wasn't welcomed, so I'd be surprised if he hangs out here any longer. As for me I'm so glad that he came. He sent me a power point that he obviously has put hundreds of hours into. It is extremely informative if anyone asks him for it. sgg51 was courteous and respectful and was met with sarcasm and a "go away" attitude. How on earth can he stay here to post on anything else since he's being intimidated to leave? No one has given him the chance to stick around or the respect. I've been here for years, even before my current logon name says so. In all this time I've never read any post that says; "It's getting old".
As far as I can see sgg51's only agenda is to provide information and have a respectful discussion, which obviously appears to be unwelcome.
The literature is full of information regarding the fact that major diseases such as polio and smallpox had been reducing drastically on their own prior to their respective vaccines even being introduced. This was caused by better sanitation and hygiene, not the vaccine.
If you asked sgg51 for his Power Point, he cites the exact facts and sources, such as the United States Census. This is a wealth of information and I am very grateful that he took an extreme amount of effort to compile it. Instead of trying to run him out on a rail, perhaps this forum should welcome people who hold different points of view and give them an opportunity to stay long enough to post on other topics.
|
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: May 05 2013 at 5:17pm
Absolute bulls hit! He didn't ask any questions, he made this thread trying to push his BS agenda under the guise of a "Discussion" which was anything but. Then when someone disagreed with him, he got butthurt. If she'd wanted to intimidate him or you, she could have said something more along the lines of "Next person to post this crap is getting banned!" She didn't even remove this thread. Your faux butthurt can't be taken seriously.
Yes, intimidated into not posting anything again because people disagree with his drivel, flashy colors and big fonts, which he calls "Facts" and they're backed up by more bull. If you can't back up what you post, it is crap. Besides, I'm not going to let him post that kind of GARBAGE without getting challenged on it.
He's not unwelcome at all. But if he thinks he's going to be able to post crap that is WIDELY DISCREDITED TIME AND AGAIN without challenge, he, and you, have another thing coming. Every time another slice of the tinfoil brigade comes along they post the same crap the same way. Besides, he had no intention whatsoever of having a discussion, he was only here to posit that bulls hit. There's honestly no discussion to be had with someone that is that wrong.
Are you serious or are you trolling? Seriously man, if you're going to cry about me reacting with sarcasm and hysterical laughter, maybe, and I mean just maybe, you should post something that can be taken remotely seriously. Let me get this crystal clear straight: Immunizing nearly the entirety of the U.S. population had nothing to do with the literal eradication of Polio, Tetanus, and Smallpox? Are you serious? HAHAHAHAHA! Congratulations on just about the funniest paragraph I've read in years because if you actually believe what you wrote there, I've got news for you: I'm not the only one laughing at you. Ever been to Africa? I have. To a place where Typhoid is endemic and spent four months in sub saharan Africa. Guess who didn't catch Typhoid. I once had a guy who was infected with *ACTIVE* Hepatitis B spit blood in my face. I even tasted his blood. Guess who didn't get Hep B? I stepped on a nail that punctured my shoe a couple weeks ago. Guess who's immune to Tetanus? Heck, guess who hasn't ever even had to WORRY about getting Tetanus? This guy.
Nobody told him he can't post his drivel, but if the guy's going to post that, he's damn sure going to get challenged to it. Example: He talked long and proud about Guillain Barre syndrome, an affliction that affects one in a million people, and even then for the most part is easily taken care of. Every single CREDIBLE source goes directly against what the guy was saying. He's selling snake oil. Period. ------------- Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley |
Posted By: quietprepr
Date Posted: May 06 2013 at 10:46am
|
The title of this thread was to ask if we believed in mandatory vaccinations. Nearly all of us do not agree with mandatory anything. I think the title was a bit misleading. It should have been, "Do you believe in vaccinations of any kind?"
I believe everyone is entitled to post their opinion, but when disagreed with, sgg51 said "good luck with your phony mystical or mythological beliefs" Something to that affect anyway, I am not going to read back through all this to get the exact quote. That isnt someone open to real debate, that is a lecture and pretty condescending. Perhaps my sarcasm was a bit over the top, but I certainly do not want anyone who disagrees with me silenced.
Also, I have been to Africa and seen polio up close...it is horrifying in real life and I am so glad it was eradicated here before my kids were born. ------------- "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival." - W. Edwards Deming |
Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: May 06 2013 at 11:12pm
|
Turbo,
Show me evidence to the contrary on these two items.
1)
90% of all disease deaths had disappeared prior to vaccines even being introduced.
This was due to better hygiene, sanitation, clean drinking water. Did you know that true herd immunity was also another reason? True herd immunity is gotten from people who have already gotten the disease and recovered. (Taken from an independent source with no ties to vaccinate or not to vaccinate.)
From 1911-1945 “the death rate of diphtheria, measles and whooping cough dclined 95% among children , before the mass immunization program started in the United States.”
These facts were cited in his power point from this source. His power point is absolutely full of sources.
Dublin L, Health progress, 1935-1945, Metropolitan Life Insurance Company, pg. 12, 1948
Reference: Dublin L, Health progress, 1935-1945, Metropolitan Life Insurance Company, pg. 12,
____________________________________________
2)
Diptheria deaths per 100,000:
1901 41,839
1906- 28,225
1911- 20,350
1916- 15,623
1921- 12,267
1926- 7,074
1931- 4,388
1936- 2,189
1941- 1,135 (vaccine introduced in the early 1940's)
1946- 467
1951- 125
1956- 45
1961- 22
1966- 15
1971-75 12
Reference: International Mortality Statistics by Michael Rowland Alderson Hardcover, 524 Pages, Published 1981 by Facts On File ISBN-13: 978-0-87196-514-ISBN, ISBN: 0-87196-514-3 In fact once you research this for yourself you will find that Polio, Diptheria, Pertussis, Tetanus, Measles, & the Influenza were all in serious decline prior to any vaccinations.-0
Turbo, I believe that your mind is so closed off to hearing other evidence that you wouldn't read it if it were handed to you. That's your option, but it would be better that you provide your own evidence to the contrary since you want to continue this discussion.
I have real immunity because I don't get the flu shot. I get the flu and get over it like most healthy people who don't get vaccinated do. When the flu shot doesn't even match the current years strain, as happens quite often, you're getting herd immunity from us! |
Posted By: MamaBear4
Date Posted: May 07 2013 at 3:28pm
| I would love to see everyone's opinion of the shingles vaccine, please. Thank you in advance! |
Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: May 07 2013 at 7:15pm
|
I don't know much about the shingles vaccine because I haven't looked into it too much. I've heard that people have gotten the shingles from the vaccine. (Zostavax, manufactured by Merck is a live virus vaccine.) I've also read that people getting the vaccine have a higher incidence of shingles than people who don't get this vaccine. More studies need to prove or disprove this. I do know that getting shingles can cause permanent nerve damage in a very small percentage of <1%. (See Postherpetic Neuralgia) Your chances of getting this nerve damage rises with age up to approx. 3% after age 80.
Nobody on my side of the family has ever had shingles. My father-in-law had shingles which we believed was caused by a case of nerves. He was told that his pig heart valve was good for about 8 years. In his 8th year he got a case of shingles, but fully recovered.
The FDA approved this vaccine in 2006 and feels that it could reduce your chances of getting shingles by more than half and also reduce post-herpetic neuralgia by over 2/3rds. When you are talking about statistics, half and 2/3rds sound like large numbers, but I've pasted below Merck's brochure so you can look for yourself on page 9.
MRC-5 cells are in this vaccine. These cells come from aborted fetal cell tissue!
Apparently, .4% of unvaccinated people get postherpetic neuralgia while .14% of vaccinated people get this. So, this nerve damage is less than 1% either way.
Shingles usually isn't dangerous and the vaccine is pretty expensive.
Here is Merck's pamphlet. Look at the lower part of page 5 & page 6 where it talks about adverse side effects that occur with people who get the vaccine versus people who get a placebo.
Page 9 shows the incidence rates for vaccinated versus placebo. If my math is correct, 22 of 1,000 people who get the shingles vaccine will get shingles compared with 74 of 1,000 in people who don't get it. The difference isn't huge and >99% of the people recover without problems.
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/z/zostavax/zostavax_pi2.pdf - http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/z/zostavax/zostavax_pi2.pdf
Why don't you research what is written about this vaccine and tell us your opinion?
Like any vaccine, I'm not blindly jumping on this one either. It hasn't been out that long and I'm sure many studies will follow. Not many people are getting this vaccine, so the data will be slow coming in. I'm not old enough for this vaccine yet so have time to look into this further.
The irony here is that most people would be willing take flu vaccines even though your chances of getting brain damange, kidney problems, or Guillian Barre as a result are pretty low. I'd be willing to bet that eventually lots of people would want this vaccine even though the chances of severe nerve damage is less than 1% for people under 60 and rise to only 3% for folks over 80.
People are willing to overlook the potential problems with flu vaccines, but would be willing to get the shingles vaccine to prevent a low incidence of shingles and very low incidence of nerve damage accompanied with it. Go figure! In either case, if you're one of the unlucky few, you'll be screaming from the rafters pro or con regarding vaccines.
|
Posted By: MamaBear4
Date Posted: May 07 2013 at 9:20pm
| Thank you for your opinion Elver I really appreciate it! Would love to hear from others about their experience with this or people they know. |
Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: May 07 2013 at 10:11pm
|
One other thing, this shingles vaccine isn't cheap. Expect to pay around $205 to $220.
If you looked carefully at page 10 of the Merck brochure, it doesn't seem that this cost is worth the benefits since so few people ever get shingles in the first place. Merck is making a lot of money! Even those that do get the shingles, very few will end up with nerve damage.
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/z/zostavax/zostavax_pi2.pdf - http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/z/zostavax/zostavax_pi2.pdf |
Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: May 07 2013 at 10:39pm
|
I've known a few people with shingles and it's very painful, and I know someone that has shingles at the moment and it's been about a year since it started. He's in a lot of pain all the time, and even the slightest touch on his back or arms makes him cry out. He was telling me that apparently shingles is the second leading pain related cause of suicide in men next to cancer. ------------- "Buy it cheap. Stack it deep" "Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
Posted By: debbiencusa
Date Posted: May 08 2013 at 11:21am
|
i do not believe in mandatory but in the case of a virus so deadly it could wipe out society as we know it, i believe those who refuse the vaccine should be required to live separate from others. The new h7n9 is said to not respond well to vaccines which means that if a volunerable patient due to age, pre existing diseasse etc gets a lot of exposure through many unavoidable life situations like work, having to buy food etc they are way more likely to catch the virus. The unvaccinated can carry the disease and not get it also. That would potentially effect all the vulnerable folks in ways that are not even measureable. That seems very unfair to me, someone else chooses not to vaccinate and bc of that another person or loved family member dies due to exposure. Just as they had the TB sanitariums they should have unvacinated areas, no herd protection for those who do not want to take the vaccine, let them sip with other like minded folks, there are plenty of Dr.s and nurses who do not want to take the vaccine also, let them treat the unvacinated. This in my opinion portects everyone else, and truly puts to the test the depth of the beliefs against vaccination, without making those of us who must take the vaccine guinea pigs in the experiment of to vaccinate or not. If this seems harsh I apologize but coming from a family with many pre existing medical conditions which make vaccination a must, it seems very harsh to me that someone elses actions or lack there of could effect my families ability to survive. All I ask is to put their money where their mouth is, and mark the home so people know that unvaccinated live there and do not allow them to leave for any reason, or provide separate housing for the duration. ------------- God Bless |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: May 08 2013 at 12:46pm
WHile not mandatory, if you decide to not get it and run around the world unprotected, you shouldn't get to come back. ------------- Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley |
Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: May 08 2013 at 1:10pm
Okay Elver, let's ask our selves why that is, shall we?
Since you're the one who happily posited that it was herd immunity later in your post, I'll go with that.
So, everyone, or at the very least all kinds of people caught Whooping Cough, Diptheria, Measels, etc and got over it or *DIED!* Those that survived, went on to live with the immunity that they gained just by surviving. You're absolutely right.
The problem with your logic is that they had to SURVIVE THE ILLNESS! I got a shot as a child that rendered me 100% immune to having to worry about whether or not I'd survive. I've never had Whooping Cough, Measels, Diptheria, Typhus, Mumps, Rubella/Rubiola, HEP of any kind, etc not because I was never exposed to those agents, but because I was vaccinated against them. That alone is evidence enough to prove you 100% wrong.
How long ago did we all collectively have to absolutely worry about a Smallpox outbreak? Nowadays they don't even give the vaccination (Military aside because I got it) to kids because the illness has largely been eradicated THROUGH VACCINATION!
You're really going to try to say that modern medicine had nothing to do with people being able to live through diptheria? Really? Vaccinations allowed people to live without worrying about getting diptheria in the first place. I find it ironic that you posted DEATHS from Diptheria instead of CASES of Diptheria.
What you, and SGG or whatever his name was, are doing here is dropping the exact same logic bomb that antigun fanatics try to spew when they say we should be forcibly disarmed: That the U.S. has far higher gun deaths than any other country, and it's true! THAT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE GUNS! What they leave out is teh AGGRIVATED CRIME and MURDER rates actually go up in disarmed populations. The UK is an excellent example with their Aggrivated Crime rate that is nearly three times what it is in the United States.
Pot to kettle, pot to kettle, you are black. I have to provide sources and evidence time and again? Something like 99.9999999% of DOCTORS directly disagree with you. What part of that are you missing?
I don't even get the seasonal Flu in the FIRST PLACE because I got the shot.
While yes, sometimes they miss the strain that goes around the United States, you're still protected from all the other strains that are going around too, especially the really nasty ones. Each and every year there's something like six to ten strains of the flu zipping around and you catch *ONE* of them. Not all six to ten. Just one. Who is getting herd immunity from whom here? ------------- Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: May 08 2013 at 3:03pm
Qld measles case sparks statewide alert
A STATE-WIDE measles alert has been issued in Queensland after a mine worker was diagnosed with the potentially deadly virus. Queensland Health says the central Queensland man probably caught the virus during a recent holiday in Asia and may have passed it on to colleagues. He had contact with fellow mine workers at the Moranbah mine camp while he was contagious from April 25 to May 6, acting senior director of the communicable diseases unit Dr Stephen Lambert says. He was in the dining room of the Grosvenor Village camp around April 29 and 30 between 6.30pm and 7.30pm (AEST). Queensland Health believes many of the mine workers he had contact with have returned to their homes around the state, potentially spreading the virus. Dr Lambert says anyone who thinks they might have been exposed to the virus should make sure they're protected against measles and seek medical advice if http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/qld-measles-case-sparks-statewide-alert/story-e6frfku9-1226637747250# - symptoms develop. Queensland Health is urging anyone born since 1966 who hasn't had two doses of the measles vaccine - or actually had the virus - to get the free vaccine from a GP. However, pregnant women shouldn't get the vaccine. "Queensland Health will continue to actively investigate this case and do whatever it can to prevent further transmission," Dr Lambert said in a statement on Wednesday. Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/qld-measles-case-sparks-statewide-alert/story-e6frfku9-1226637747250#ixzz2Sk1CcTr2 - http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/qld-measles-case-sparks-statewide-alert/story-e6frfku9-1226637747250#ixzz2Sk1CcTr2 ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: May 08 2013 at 8:35pm
This statement makes absoluely no sense at all. If you are getting your vaccinations, then why are you worried? You're fully protected! You have no reason to worry, RIGHT?
This article puts things into perspective regarding past pandemic "threats".
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/05/07/h7n9-bird-flu.aspx?e_cid=20130507_DNL_art_1&utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20130507 - http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/05/07/h7n9-bird-flu.aspx?e_cid=20130507_DNL_art_1&utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20130507
Let's all just take a big breath and relax about H7N9 until we even know that it will spread H2H. Right now there is no evidence that this is going to cause a pandemic.
Whatever the case, it will take about 6 weeks to produce a vaccine. You better worry about how to prevent getting the H7N9 in the first place. Research that!
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 08 2013 at 9:11pm
|
Most flu and shingles vaccines have about a 60% efficacy. Not sure about Measles and Polio and other vaccines but most people must have a booster for these. For people who choose to take vaccines know they are not totally going to protect but it is our choice to use them. Isolation is the best method but to single out a group is not practical. One must SIP if they want to avoid a pandemic. |
Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: May 08 2013 at 10:03pm
|
60% sounds like a really high percentage, doesn't it?
Well you can read about your 60% on page 9 here on Table 5
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/z/zostavax/zostavax_pi2.pdf - http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/z/zostavax/zostavax_pi2.pdf
In Merck's study they looked at the vaccinated versus the placebo groups.
Vaccinated subjects = 19,254 315 were infected or 1.636%.
Unvaccinated placebo = 19,247 642 were infected or 3.33%.
This is an overall vaccine efficacy of 51%! So you see, statistics sound HUGE, but we are talking about very low percentages to begin with. By vaccinating 19,254 people at a cost of $205 to $225 per shot Merck is getting a lot of money to help a small percentage of the population. A total of 327 people were saved from getting shingles out of 19,254 people or 1.6%.
Now look at page 10 for the statistics of nerve damage as a result. (Postherpetic Neuralgia)
In the greater or equal to 80 year old category, you will see that only 1/2 of 1% of this age group will get shingles, but 18.9% (of this 1/2 of 1%) will get the nerve damage.
Of the unvaccinated 80 years olds, 3.5% will get shingles, of which 25.5 % (of this 3.5%) will get nerve damage.
Why would you not ALSO be concerned with the insignificant, although very serious, side effects of a flu shot not get your attention? Things like Giullain Barre, Narcolepsy, Kidney disease, or even Alzheimer's?
That's the irony of it all.
If you haven't had chicken pox or immunization for it, I don't think you need to worry about getting the shot, but you should check with your doctor first.
Did you know that because of all the childhood immunizations for chicken pox that more people will get shingles? This is because the immunization put the chicken pox into people's systems.
|
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: May 09 2013 at 3:24am
|
i think what is happening in the UK is warning enough, you are fooling yourself if you think vaccine's are not for the good of most of us , sure a few might suffer adverse effects, but thats the price we pay, as an aside do you not worry more about of antibiotic's given to live stock, and the rise of resistant strains of antibiotic bacteria, this is far more of a worry than a few people having adverse effects, i do however believe, those that do suffer adverse effects should be compensated ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: debbiencusa
Date Posted: May 09 2013 at 7:51pm
|
yes flumom, you are correct it is BECAUSE we know that the vaccine is not 100% effective that we would fear the unvacinated. Even a mild case as they say you can get would kill some, then those little numbers become large ones. ------------- God Bless |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: May 19 2013 at 5:36am
Labor's support for No Jab No Play campaign forces Liberal rethink
http://www.reddit.com/submit"> 
Books on display in the shop window of a nutrition and health shop in Bondi. NSW Labor Opposition leader John Robertson has swung behind the ``No Jab, No Play'' campaign and will introduce legislation into the parliament on Tuesday that will allow pre-schools and childcare centres to ban unvaccinated children. Mr Robertson's move this week has forced a red-faced Health Minister Jillian Skinner to play catch-up, saying the O'Farrell government would ``consider'' strengthening laws to allow http://www.news.com.au/national-news/nsw-act/labors-support-for-no-jab-no-play-campaign-forces-liberal-rethink/story-fndo4bst-1226646176271# - child care centres to ban unvaccinated children. The Sunday Telegraph and The Daily Telegraph launched a campaign two weeks ago to wipe out potentially fatal diseases that can be stopped by vaccination and Mr Robertson agreed it was time to act. ``This shouldn't be about the alternative wishes of parents who http://www.news.com.au/national-news/nsw-act/labors-support-for-no-jab-no-play-campaign-forces-liberal-rethink/story-fndo4bst-1226646176271# - choose to ignore the science. It has to be about the health of our children. That is why I am introducing this important legislation,'' he said. A recent report revealed that almost 80,000 children are unvaccinated with up to nine areas showing immunisation rates below 85 per cent and risking outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases. Mr Robertson said some Third World countries had higher immunisation rates than Vaucluse. ``It is astounding that places like Iran and Sudan have higher rates of childhood vaccination than parts of Sydney,'' he said. The vast majority of unimmunised children are not the children of vaccine refusers, but rather their parents have forgotten to keep up to date with the childhood immunisation schedule and the bill aims to target those, he said. Last week federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said an Abbott-led government would support childcare centres' right to turn away children who are not immunised and it would also review benefit payments to vaccine refusers. Ms Skinner said ntsGwould
seek advice ntsGfrom her departmentnte about the issuente: ``I tasked
the ministry to provide detailed analysis of the options, which may
include amendments to the Public Health Act.'' 
Danielle Weymark contracted meningococcal disease at 14 months and lost her arm, all her fingers, all her toes bar one which has been stitched onto her hand for a pencil grip. She is 19 now and training for her dream- the paralympics in equestrian. No wonder parents get confused BONDI nutritionist Debbie Orme has defended her shopfront http://www.news.com.au/national-news/nsw-act/labors-support-for-no-jab-no-play-campaign-forces-liberal-rethink/story-fndo4bst-1226646176271# - promotion of an ``epidemic'' in childhood autism, claiming she is not against vaccination. With a variety of books highlighting now discredited links between vaccination and autism in her store, Ms Orme said her concern is for safe immunisation. Bondi was identified in a recent report where rates of vaccination are declining. From her store Ms Orme loans customers a DVD titled Finding The Words, which claims to show children who developed regressive autism after they were administered vaccinations, who then recovered from their autism after undergoing a program of ``detoxification, immune support and targeted education therapies''. But Westmead Children's Hospital paediatrician David Isaacs said the DVD was ``very weak scientifically'' and featured ``holistic pediatricians'' who are ``just a bit nutty''. Ms Orme claimed the rise in autism in our society is due to increased toxicity and decreased nutritional status: ``I believe ntsGthat one of the contributing factors,nte a major contributing factor, is toxicity and one of the sources of toxicity can be vaccinations.'' New vaccine to rein in a killer A NEW vaccine for the deadliest strain of meningococcal disease should be available in Australia by the end of the year. For the past decade the only vaccine available has been for the group c strain, but the group `b' strain, which leads to aggressive blood poisoning, was responsible for 83 per cent of the 222 cases of meningococcal disease last year according to the Meningococcal Reference Laboratory. Immunology expert Professor Robert Booy said although the group `c' vaccine had greatly reduced the incidence of the disease, group `b' remained a significant problem. Danielle Weymark contracted meningococcal disease at 14 months, her tiny body ravaged by the hallmark purple spots that mark blood poisoning. She lost her left arm below the elbow, her right hand, all of her toes bar one and most of her fingers. ``She was very lucky to survive,'' her mother Leanne said. She watched her daughter endure 80 operations including skin grafts to her legs and arms. ``Her legs stopped growing at age eight so she had to have surgery to put rods in.'' The plucky teenager has not let disability get in her way and has set her sights on becoming a Paralympian in her chosen field of dressage. ``It happened at such a young age so I don't know any different,'' Danielle, 19, said. She urged parents to get their kids vaccinated when the new vaccine comes in. ``Back then (in 2003) `c' was more deadly and we developed a vaccine for that and the overall meningococcal rate has been halved since,'' Professor Booy said. In 2000 there were 628 cases and 222 in 2012, mostly caused by group b. The group b vaccine has been approved in Europe and is awaiting approval by the TGA in Australia. Anger as AVN sells fake cure ANTI-VACCINATION group the AVN is engulfed in a fresh controversy with the Therapeutic Goods Administration by promoting a cancer cure that medical experts say is dangerous. The product black salve, which contains highly corrosive poisons that can burn layers of skin and leave scarring, was advertised on the Australian Vaccination Network website as an alternative cancer treatment. The ad proclaimed black salve as a ``safe, effective, natural remedy ... used for over 2000 years to treat skin cancers and other cancerous conditions, leading to a total remission of the disease''. But TGA said: ``Consumers would be entitled to expect that `black salve' will cure them of cancer when, in fact, there is no credible, reliable clinical or scientific evidence to demonstrate that the product is effective in the treatment of any cancer.'' Terry Slevin, chairman of the Skin Cancer Committee for
the Cancer Council of Australia. said the product didn't work and it was
illegal to sell the product because it is dangerous. Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national-news/nsw-act/labors-support-for-no-jab-no-play-campaign-forces-liberal-rethink/story-fndo4bst-1226646176271#ixzz2Tk1znQC6 - http://www.news.com.au/national-news/nsw-act/labors-support-for-no-jab-no-play-campaign-forces-liberal-rethink/story-fndo4bst-1226646176271#ixzz2Tk1znQC6 ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: May 19 2013 at 2:36pm
|
Despite the proven effectiveness of vaccinations in protecting children from life-threatening diseases, a new http://www.theage.com.au/national/health/just-one-little-jab-20130519-2juz6.html# - survey reveals some parents are not yet convinced. Luke Philben was playing happily on the floor when his mother, Sam Jackson, looked across and saw something was not right. Six-month-old Luke had a strange smile on his face, was holding his arm out at an angle and his body was twitching. Terrified, Jackson began carrying Luke to the car to drive him to hospital, but by the time she reached the driveway he was having such violent fits he was frothing at the mouth. She called paramedics, who arrived just as Luke was turning blue. ''I was screaming. I thought he was dead. It was really, very traumatic,'' she says. At the hospital, doctors checked Luke over and sent him home. They told Jackson seizures related to fever were common in young children and Luke's high temperature may have been due to his routine immunisations the day before. 
Pupils at Scotch College lining up for Salk vaccine injections in 1956. But 10 days later, Luke had another seizure and was admitted to hospital, where he had a third seizure that was so severe he had to be resuscitated. Brain scans came back clear, and Luke was prescribed drugs for epilepsy. Advertisement
http://www.theage.com.au/national/health/just-one-little-jab-20130519-2juz6.html# -
http://www.theage.com.au/national/health/just-one-little-jab-20130519-2juz6.html# - Ava Donovan (far left), 9, and her friend Luke Philben, 7, have a form of epilepsy called Dravet syndrome, which would have revealed itself with or without vaccination. Photo: Wayne Taylor A new Australian survey confirms that many parents have serious concerns about the safety of vaccines given to children. Doctors worry that if these fears are not addressed they may change behaviour, causing parents to delay or withhold vaccines and risk their children being struck by diseases such as measles and whooping cough. In the past, parents have vaccinated their children after seeing the damage such diseases can cause. But as epidemics become fewer, there are heightened fears about the possible side effects of vaccines. Indeed, doctors are concerned we may be seeing an emerging crisis of confidence in the benefits of childhood vaccination. Associate Professor Julie Leask, of the National Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance, based at the University of Sydney, was an adviser on http://www.theage.com.au/national/health/just-one-little-jab-20130519-2juz6.html# - >the survey - the first to measure attitudes to vaccination in Australia. Commissioned to coincide with the release of a television documentary, Jabbed, on vaccinations, the survey canvassed the views of 1300 Australians, including 400 parents. While childhood vaccination rates for two-year-olds remain high at 92 per cent, the survey found that 53 per cent of parents had general concerns about vaccinating their children. (Of these, 45 per cent vaccinated anyway, while 8 per cent either delayed or withheld vaccines.) Vaccines are medicines that prevent people from acquiring serious infectious diseases. They work by stimulating the immune system to produce antibodies to fight a particular infection, helping it to quickly detect and destroy the infection when it becomes a threat. Leask was surprised the survey showed that one in four parents was worried about a particular aspect of vaccination. Chief among those worries were concerns about an increasing number of vaccines and inadequate safety testing. ''It taps into this idea of the infant as being young and vulnerable and needing our protection, and vaccines being these mysterious things that go into a healthy baby to protect them against diseases we may not have ever seen,'' she says. Parents also worried that their child's immune system could be ''overloaded'', a fear that scientists are keen to dispel, pointing out that the immune system responds independently to each infection, so cannot be overloaded or damaged by giving children a range of vaccines. They say serious side effects from vaccines are extremely rare, and there is strict safety testing Some fears about vaccines are misplaced and can cause widespread harm and anxiety. For example, measles epidemics continue to break out across Britain more that a decade after disgraced doctor Andrew Wakefield published a study in The Lancet claiming to show a link between the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine and autism. Wakefield's research was later declared fraudulent and unethical and his theory was widely debunked, but cases of measles have since skyrocketed after vaccine rates plummeted. In 2006, a 13-year-old boy became the first person in more than a decade to die of the disease in Britain. But damage can also be caused by what turn out to be problem vaccines, such as CSL's Fluvax, which was designed to protect against seasonal and swine flu. In 2010, it caused 410 adverse reactions in Australian children under five, including 67 who had febrile convulsions, before health authorities moved to ban it for that age group. Writing in the Medical Journal of Australia last month, public health physician Paul Effler and epidemiologist Heath Kelly said global fears of a swine flu pandemic led to ''accelerated approval" of Fluvax despite a lack of robust evidence of its safety in children. They say stricter protocols and improved surveillance are needed after vaccines are approved in order to maintain public trust ''and ensure the long-term success of paediatric influenza vaccination programs''. For the past 15 years at the Royal Children's Hospital, many parents with doubts about vaccination have met with immunisation paediatrician Jenny Royle. Often they are stunned to hear that some childhood vaccines protected against diseases for which there is no cure, such as whooping cough. (Parents might live around the corner from a hospital and think that if their baby caught whooping cough, doctors would be able to fix it.) ''We give supportive treatment, so you give babies fluids in drips and you put them in intensive care and give them oxygen when they turn blue, but there is no specific treatment to cure whooping cough,'' Royle says. ''It's a horrendous infection and even in modern Melbourne we are terribly limited in the impact we can make.'' Australia is in the grip of a whooping cough epidemic, with 10,134 cases reported in children under 15 last year. Two infants died, both aged under eight weeks, when they were too young to be vaccinated. As with whooping cough, doctors are restricted in what they can do when meningitis takes hold. There is a treatment, but it does not necessarily guarantee a good outcome. ''You can be rushed to hospital and an hour later they have in the fridge the exact antibiotic used to treat it, but you can already be deaf and brain injured,'' Royle says. ''Because the immune system is so underdeveloped against the meningitis bacteria at a young age, it gets in the body and multiplies and the treatment is not given in time because the disease doesn't declare itself early enough.'' Hesitant parents need their questions answered quickly, Royle says, because the worst thing that could happen is for their children to get a disease while they are still trying to work out whether to administer the vaccine that prevents it. Royle says her first task with hesitant immunisers is to work out the source of their anxiety. Had they heard about a worrying side effect? If so she provides information about how commonly it occurred with a particular vaccine. She points out that all medicines, even aspirin, have side effects. ''I'm not here hiding things from people. I'm very open about the range of side effects and how often they occur. I guess by talking about them you can then weigh up the chance of them happening, and how significant that would be, versus the chance of getting the disease and how significant that would be. It helps you in your risk/benefit discussions with people.'' Each year, the National Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance compiles a report of all adverse events reported in Australia following immunisation, but not necessarily caused by it. In 2011, the most current year for which data is available, there were 1121 such events in children under seven, including 531 in which there was a reaction at the injection site and 301 cases of fever. More seriously, there were 44 cases of convulsions and 38 hypotonic-hyporesponsive episodes in which babies can become floppy and unresponsive. The episodes are frightening for parents but babies usually recover quickly with no long-term consequences. Between 2002 and 2011 nine deaths following vaccination in children under seven were reported to Australia's drug regulator, the Therapeutic Goods Administration. After investigation, links to vaccination were ruled out in seven cases. In two cases, authorities were unable to confirm or exclude any contribution by the vaccine. In Queensland, a two-year-old girl died in her cot the day after having a Fluvax shot in 2010, and a coroner was unable to determine the cause of her death. Before licensing a new vaccine for use in Australia, the TGA requires manufacturers to provide detailed data supporting its safety and effectiveness. The TGA continues to monitor vaccines for safety once they are approved, with all adverse events entered into a database and analysed regularly by medical officers in an effort to detect any problems. Some side effects are expected with particular vaccines - for example, up to three out of 100 children can develop diarrhoea or vomiting in the week after receiving the vaccine against rotavirus, a severe form of gastroenteritis. TGA officers are looking for anything unexpected, such as in the case of Fluvax, which was triggering febrile convulsions in one in 100 children - 10 times the expected rate. In 2011-12 more than 800,000 children were fully immunised in Australia and authorities say it is vital to consider adverse events in the context of thousands of diseases being prevented, some of them potentially fatal. Fears about vaccines can stem from information overload, rather than ignorance. Research in the US and Britain has found that the more educated parents are, the more likely they are to oppose vaccination. Leask says this group is more inclined to question medical intervention in general. ''As part of their practice of trying to be 'good parents', they will feel it's important to research what they do with regard to their children's health … they might not just go ahead with immunisation without a lot of questioning. If their friends are not vaccinating they may see it as more normal to question it and select out vaccines, maybe even demand a special schedule for their child,'' she says. The Australian survey of attitudes showed the internet was the main source of information for 50 per cent of people who oppose vaccination, while supporters overwhelmingly obtain information from a family doctor. Online searches would inevitably turn up anti-vaccination websites, Leask says, but do not create doubt where none had previously existed. ''It's an attempt to rationalise an emerging position you have on vaccination by going online and finding things that suit your theory and cherry-picking them,'' she says. ''People who are against vaccination will go and look for things that support that view, and they'll find them online much more than with conventional health professionals.'' For Luke Philben's family, however, the opposite was true. As Sam Jackson scoured the internet in her search for an explanation, she came across an article by a woman whose son had Dravet syndrome - a rare and severe form of epilepsy. It was, she said, ''like looking in the mirror''. A gene test confirmed the diagnosis. Soon after, Jackson became aware of the work of Melbourne neurologist Ingrid Scheffer, who had studied cases of children who developed severe seizures soon after vaccination. Out of 14 such cases, Professor Scheffer found that 11 patients had gene mutations that cause Dravet syndrome, which usually emerges around six months of age and is associated with intellectual disability. That meant many of the children with suspected vaccine reactions were destined to develop the devastating disorder anyway. At most the vaccine caused a fever that triggered the first seizure, just as a cold or toothache might. Luke has a friend, Ava Donovan, 9, who also has Dravet syndrome. Her first seizure occurred after a virus when she was five months old - not after her shots. Leask says despite a perception that anti-vaccination groups are fuelling doubts about vaccines through the internet, there are bigger forces at play. Often there is an assumption that if such groups did not exist, no one would have any concerns. But wider changes in society are having an influence, including reduced exposure to the diseases that vaccines protect against. A shift from the days of doctor knows best towards a model of care in which patients make informed decisions about their treatment is also part of the picture, along with the rise of alternative therapies. ''All of these broader changes may be influencing shifts in support for vaccination,'' Leask says. Jackson spent six months blaming immunisation for Luke's seizures, and herself for taking him to have his shots. Now she knows his first seizure would have emerged with or without the vaccine. She has chosen not to immunise him further because the jabs are a trigger for him to have a seizure, just like jumping on a trampoline or going outside on a hot day. But Luke's family relies on other parents immunising their children, because a fever from a disease like measles could threaten his life. Vaccines are given to the vast majority of children, and diseases can emerge at certain ages. Leask says that by chance alone, children can develop a disease or syndrome of unknown origin soon after having their shots. ''People want to know what's causing it and they blame the vaccine,'' she says. Jabbed: Love, Fear and Vaccines will screen on Sunday, May 26 at 8.30pm on SBS. Poll: Should all children be vaccinated?
Total votes: 1319. Poll closes in 10 hours. Disclaimer: These polls are not scientific and reflect the opinion only of visitors who have chosen to participate. ------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: May 24 2013 at 3:43am
Measles epidemic: 60,000 have MMR jab in Swansea and Powys
MMR drop-in clinics finish this weekend, but jabs will be available from GPs
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22641698#story_continues_1 - Continue reading the main story
Related Stories
Over 60,000 measles vaccinations have now been given which will help to reduce the length and severity of the outbreak in Swansea and Powys, says Public Health Wales. However, another 33,000 youngsters between 10 and 18 have still not had the jab, say officials. The number of cases in the outbreak has now reached 1,136 since November 2012, up 10 cases in the last few days. There were only 19 measles cases in Wales in the whole of 2011. "We are delighted to see that thanks to the efforts of health board staff and the efforts of parents, the number vaccinated with MMR has now passed 60,000," said health protection director Dr Marion Lyons from Public Health Wales (PHW). Final drop-in clinics
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22641698#story_continues_2 - Continue reading the main story “Start QuoteDr Marion Lyons Public Health Wales "This will undoubtedly have helped to reduce the length and severity of the current outbreak - but we remain concerned for the 33,000 children aged 10 to 18 who remain unvaccinated. "There will always be the possibility of measles outbreaks elsewhere in Wales until we reduce the numbers of unvaccinated people." In all, almost 61,500 non-routine vaccinations have been given since 1 March. This includes 17,440 people aged 10 to 18 who are said to be the group hardest hit by the measles outbreak centred on the Swansea area. This week sees the final opportunities for people to be vaccinated at drop-in clinics and in school sessions, although jabs will still be available through GP surgeries. There will be a final drop-in session at the Princess of Wales Hospital, Bridgend on Thursday from 18:00 to 21:00 BST. In Powys, two drop-in sessions will be held at the outpatients' departments of Brecon Hospital and Newtown Hospital on Saturday between 10:30 to 14:30 BST. Related Stories
------------- Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖 Marcus Aurelius |
Have your say
You must sign in to make a comment.