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is this why we need a pandemic

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Printed Date: March 28 2024 at 3:19am


Topic: is this why we need a pandemic
Posted By: carbon20
Subject: is this why we need a pandemic
Date Posted: September 30 2013 at 2:04pm

UN climate panel blames humans for global warming

A new report published by the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change warns of rising temperatures and says global warming could have devastating effects as the risk of heat waves, floods and droughts increases.

http://www.dw.de/un-climate-panel-blames-humans-for-global-warming/a-17119680#" rel="nofollow"> A tree killed by rising salt water is seen beyond a mud flat at dawn on the east shore of the Salton Sea (photo: David McNew/Getty Images)

After being closeted behind closed doors since Monday (23.09.2013), scientists and government representatives of the 195 UN member states came up with a 31-page summary of the http://www.ipcc.ch/" rel="nofollow - report that's well over 1,000 pages long. According to this brief version published on Friday (27.09.2013), prospects are even more pessimistic than scientists had projected in 2007.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) says it is 95 percent certain that mankind caused more than half the warming observed over the past 60 years. In 2007, the IPCC had rated its conviction at 90 percent. Humans produce an incredible amount of carbon dioxide (CO2) which heats up the atmosphere. CO2 levels continue to rise - just in March, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in the US had recorded new peak levels.

Sea levels are also expected to rise at a much faster pace. The IPCC projected sea levels would rise between 26 and 82 centimeters (10.4 and 32.8 inches) by 2100.

"We know much more about the reasons for rising sea levels now than we did a couple years ago," said climate researcher Stefan Ramstorf of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research. "Measurements show that both large continental ice sheets in Greenland and the Antarctic are increasingly losing ice masses." Rising sea levels are a threat to flat coastal regions.

Global warming to continue

Global warming is going to continue, the report said. Global average temperatures could rise by 1.5 to 4 degrees Celsius according to different climate scenarios. The IPPC also warned about missing the 2-degree limit that countries set as a target in climate talks to avoid the worst impact of global warming.

http://www.dw.de/un-climate-panel-blames-humans-for-global-warming/a-17119680#" rel="nofollow"> Dry soil (photo: MEHR) The IPCC warned of an increased risk for droughts

"To steer humanity out of the high danger zone, governments must step up immediate climate action and craft an agreement in 2015 that helps to scale up" efforts to curb greenhouse gas emissions, executive secretary of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, Christiana Figueres, said.

Even though global average temperatures haven't risen in 15 years as predicted, it doesn't mean climate change won't have devastating effects on Earth. That's what most climate researchers pretty much agree on.

Mojib Latif of the Geomar Helmholtz Centre for Ocean Research in Kiel has been arguing for years that oceans might be responsible for stagnating temperatures, because deep sea areas are able to absorb heat and store it. "That's why we haven't been able to detect a rise in global surface temperature even though the climate system is heating up."

Certain severe weather phenomenon like heat waves, flooding or thunderstorms are going to increase in the future. IPPC scientists expect humid regions to get more rain while dry regions will continue to get even less water.

However, they can't say for sure if their models and simulations are going to reflect reality in the future. Climate calculations are highly complex. Even though scientists have learned a lot about correlations between oceans, sea current and atmosphere, there are other factors that come into play as well - for instance the ocean's capacity to store heat. Scientists failed to include this sufficiently as they calculated their models.

IPCC loses credibility

Now they have realized it's the ocean's storage capacity that's responsible for stagnating global average temperatures. In the scientific community, it's standard procedure to rework models and simulations. However, the public doesn't appreciate apocalyptic scenarios predicting an immediate end to life as we know it - only for scientists then to revoke them. "We lose credibility," said climate researcher Hans Storch.

http://www.dw.de/un-climate-panel-blames-humans-for-global-warming/a-17119680#" rel="nofollow"> People carrying cash boxes walk across a flooded street (photo: REUTERS/Stringer) Flooding is another risk for those regions with heavy rainfall

The IPPC, which was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2007, has lost some of its credibility since it was hit by several scandals: A study about melting glaciers turned out to be unrealistic, and environmental lobbyists helped to craft the IPCC report.

As a result the public are more sceptical than before about the claims made by climate scientists. "Only 39 percent of the German population fears climate change. A couple of years ago it was over 60 percent," said meteorologist Sven Plöger at the Severe Weather Congress in Hamburg.

European Union Climate Action Commissioner Connie Hedegaard called the IPPC report a wake up call, saying: "The issue is not whether to believe in climate change or not. The issue is whether to follow science or not."

"If your doctor was 95 percent sure you had a serious disease, you would immediately start looking for the cure," she added.

The IPCC summarizes the most important scientific climate studies of the past years and doesn't make recommendations of its own in terms of environmental legislation. It's up to politicians to draw conclusions. The next climate summit is going to take place in Warsaw in mid-November.

DW.DE



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius



Replies:
Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: September 30 2013 at 4:23pm
Funny - I can remember my dear old Dad telling me that there were too many people in the world and we needed a plague. That was well over thirty years ago when the population was a lot less than today's and we didn't know how badly we were screwing things up.

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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: Crying Out Loud
Date Posted: September 30 2013 at 5:19pm
I take no personal responsibilty for anything that goes wrong in this atmosphere. If you are one of the "We" who have done bad things to people, places or things...then well...shame....shame....guilt....guilt...and notty notty.


Posted By: Turboguy
Date Posted: September 30 2013 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by Crying Out Loud Crying Out Loud wrote:

I take no personal responsibilty for anything that goes wrong in this atmosphere. If you are one of the "We" who have done bad things to people, places or things...then well...shame....shame....guilt....guilt...and notty notty.


Did you turn your computer on when you wrote that? Then you're at fault.

Did you flush the toilet the last time you dropped the Huxtables off at the river? Then you're at fault.

Did you drive your car to work this morning? Then you're at fault.

Truth be told, the fact that things are getting warmer is plainly true. Mankinds influence on that is a point of contention.


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Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley


Posted By: Crying Out Loud
Date Posted: September 30 2013 at 6:23pm
I am rubber, you are glue; whatever you say negative to me, will bounce off of me, and back onto sticky old you!LOL


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 01 2013 at 3:46am
well said Turboguy,

thats what makes me laugh when i hear we have to reduce or carbon output to 1990

levels or about 50%, that means , we have to stay at home and do nothing for 3.5 days of the week

given that the population is now 7+billion people and 300  years ago the population was about 2+ billion


and everyone of those people  burn carbon to live


 so to think that the carbon that has been taken from the atmosphere over millions of years and pump it

back into the air  will have no affect seems very naive to me ,

 


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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: October 01 2013 at 9:04am
carbon20 - that's the thing I can't get past when it comes to the argument about whether climate change is (A) happening, and (B) is man made.
Coming from a science based background, I find it hard to fathom how increasing atmospheric CO2 concentrations from a pre-industrial age level of 280ppm to our current 400ppm wouldn't have a measurable effect. We live in a relatively small enclosed system powered almost solely by solar energy, and the amount that remains in that system and isn't reflected/radiated back out drives our weather systems and dictates the climate we live in. Cause and effect predicts that an increase in greenhouse gases has to bring about some change in our atmosphere, and sea level rise, glacial melting, ocean acidification, and extreme weather events all seem to be the kind of things we should be expecting, and indeed are now seeing. 
I just don't see how you can dramatically and rapidly alter the chemical composition of an atmospheric system and realistically not expect change.


-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: CStackDrPH
Date Posted: October 01 2013 at 1:53pm
I'm an environmental scientist with over 30 years of consulting practice, working for the big guys (BP, ConAgra etc.).  They believe in climate change, and I do as well.  

However, the media and stupid advocates like Al Gore pumped it up SO big, and made it sound so immediate, that they boxed themselves into a big corner.  We have had a pause in cooling, likely due to natural causes (the same quiet sun that might whap us with massive solar flares when it comes out of its slumber).  

Temperature doesn't bother me nearly as much as ocean acidification: 

“Temperatures measured over the short term are just one parameter,” said Dr Tim Barnett of the Scripps Institute of Oceanography in an interview. “There are far more critical things going on; the acidification of the ocean is happening a lot faster than anybody thought that it would, it’s sucking up more CO2...plankton, the basic food chain of the planet, are dying, it’s such a hugely important signal. Why aren’t people using that as a measure of what is going on?”

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/09/what-leading-scientists-say-you-should-know-about-todays-frightening-climate-report/280045/" rel="nofollow - http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/09/what-leading-scientists-say-you-should-know-about-todays-frightening-climate-report/280045/



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CRS, DrPH


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 01 2013 at 2:45pm
95% of scientists agree in peer reveued  papers "we melting the north pole". good documentrys to watch ,

"extreme ice" and "chasing the ice"


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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: October 01 2013 at 3:16pm
Agreed, Chuck. The big unknowns are how much CO2 the oceans can continue to absorb, how much damage to marine ecosystems will occur as they become more acidic, and are conditions becoming more favorable for widespread oceanic anoxic events to occur as some scientists have theorized. The process is undoubtedly moderating atmospheric CO2 levels, but they'll rise dramatically if and when the ocean's capacity to absorb it is reached.


-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 11 2013 at 2:45pm
  • http://www.theguardian.com/environment" rel="nofollow - Environment
  • http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent" rel="nofollow - Climate Consensus - the 97%

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent" rel="nofollow"> Climate consensus blog badge

  • http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/oct/10/global-warming-world-of-extremes" rel="nofollow - Previous
  • http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent" rel="nofollow - Blog home

Conservative media outlets found guilty of biased global warming coverage

New studies show conservative and politically neutral media outlets are creating false balance in climate change reporting

  • http://www.facebook.com/dialog/feed?app_id=180444840287&link=http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/oct/11/climate-change-political-media-ipcc-coverage&display=popup&redirect_uri=http://static-serve.appspot.com/static/facebook-share/callback.html&show_error=false&ref=desktop" rel="nofollow - - - Share 326


  • http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/button/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fenvironment%2Fclimate-consensus-97-per-cent%2F2013%2Foct%2F11%2Fclimate-change-political-media-ipcc-coverage&media=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic-secure.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FPix%2Faudio%2Fvideo%2F2012%2F12%2F7%2F1354893403794%2FRoger-Ailes-Fox-News-010.jpg&guid=fLD4ehfmyK86-0&description=Conservative+media+outlets+found+guilty+of+biased+global+warming+coverage+%7C+Dana+Nuccitelli" rel="nofollow - - 1
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  • http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/oct/11/climate-change-political-media-ipcc-coverage#" rel="nofollow">Email
Roger Ailes, Fox News
Roger Ailes, Fox News chairman. Fox News had among the most biased coverage of the IPCC report. Photograph: Reuters

There's a 97 percent consensus on human-caused global warming http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024" rel="nofollow - in the peer-reviewed climate science literature and http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus-intermediate.htm" rel="nofollow - among climate experts . There's a http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/may/28/global-warming-consensus-climate-denialism-characteristics" rel="nofollow - 96 percent consensus in the climate research that humans are responsible for most of the current global warming. The 2013 IPCC report agrees with this position with 95 percent confidence, and states that http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/sep/27/global-warming-ipcc-report-humans" rel="nofollow - humans are most likely responsible for 100 percent of the global warming since 1951.

Yet a http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/10/10/study-media-sowed-doubt-in-coverage-of-un-clima/196387" rel="nofollow - new study conducted by Media Matters for America shows that in stories about the 2013 IPCC report, rather than accurately reflect this expert consensus, certain media outlets have created a false perception of discord amongst climate scientists.

IPCC media coverage vs. the 97 percent expert consensus on human-caused global warming IPCC media coverage vs. the 97 percent expert consensus on human-caused global warming, courtesy of Media Matters.

Conservative News Outlet False Balance and Fake Experts

Specifically, politically conservative news outlets like Rupert Murdoch's http://www.theguardian.com/media/fox-news" rel="nofollow - Fox News and the http://www.theguardian.com/media/wallstreetjournal" rel="nofollow - Wall Street Journal were responsible for the lion's share of the false balance, disproportionately representing climate contrarians in their stories about the IPCC report.

Disproportionate climate contrarian coverage on Fox News as compared to the 97 percent expert consensus on human-caused global warming Disproportionate climate contrarian coverage on Fox News as compared to the 97 percent expert consensus on human-caused global warming, courtesy of Media Matters.

The Media Matters study focused on American news outlets, but similar patterns have been observed in other international media markets. Mat Hope at Carbon Brief reviewed http://www.carbonbrief.org/blog/2013/10/three-graphs-breaking-down-uk-newspaper-coverage-of-the-ipcc%E2%80%99s-big-report/" rel="nofollow - UK media coverage of the IPCC report . Based on the IPCC story headlines he compiled, the politically conservative Times, Daily Mail, and Telegraph gave climate contrarian views disproportionate coverage, unlike The Guardian, Observer, and Independent. Rupert Murdoch's The Australian also http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/sep/16/climate-change-contrarians-5-stages-denial" rel="nofollow - heavily featured climate contrarians in its climate stories leading up to the 2013 IPCC report.

Because there are so few climate scientist contrarians to choose from, most of the guests casting doubt on human-caused global warming and the IPCC report were not climate scientists. It's important to remember that the scientific evidence has no political bias, which suggests that the disproportionate representation of climate contrarians is a result of the political biases in the media outlets themselves.

Disproportionate climate contrarian coverage on Fox News as compared to the 97 percent expert consensus on human-caused global warming Background of guests who accept and reject human-caused global warming in IPCC media stories, courtesy of Media Matters.

The 19 percent of guests classified as 'climate scientists' in the above graphic is also very generous to the conservative American media outlets. The 19 percent is comprised of http://www.skepticalscience.com/Judith_Curry_blog.htm" rel="nofollow - Judith Curry , Willie Soon (who has http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/jun/28/climate-change-sceptic-willie-soon" rel="nofollow - received $1m from coal and oil industry interests since 2001 ), and Anthony Tsonis (whose research on ocean cycles http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/07/warminginterrupted-much-ado-about-natural-variability/" rel="nofollow - is entirely consistent with human-caused global warming , but whose views Fox News portrayed inaccurately).

This practice is known as " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_balance" rel="nofollow - false balance ," where the 3 percent of climate contrarians are given a disproportionate amount of media coverage, creating the perception that there is a significant divide amongst climate experts. In their purported efforts to be "fair and balanced" and represent "both sides," these media outlets are actually creating an unbalanced perception of reality. The reality is that 97 percent of climate experts and evidence support human-caused global warming. The findings in the IPCC report are consistent with that expert consensus, as we would expect, since the IPCC report is simply a summary of the body of scientific research.

Bias Seeping into the http://www.theguardian.com/media/bbc" rel="nofollow - BBC

Unfortunately this practice of false balance appears to be spreading to politically neutral media outlets. The http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/oct/01/bbc-coverage-climate-report-ipcc-sceptics?CMP=twt_fd" rel="nofollow - BBC has been heavily criticized for its http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/01/bbc-betrayed-values-carter-scorn-ipcc" rel="nofollow - interviews of climate contrarians leading up to the publication of the IPCC report. BBC editor Ehsan Masood http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/oct/09/climate-change-sceptics-not-all-alike?CMP=twt_gu" rel="nofollow - attempted to defend the network's false balance coverage this week, arguing that there is a difference between climate contrarians and skeptics, and that it's important to cover the latter to avoid "shutting out dissenting voices."

There certainly is a difference between biased contrarians and open-minded skeptics. The problem is that the BBC can't seem to tell the difference. For example, they granted an extensive interview to Bob Carter, a marine geologist with minimal experience in climate science, http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Bob_Carter" rel="nofollow - who works for numerous conservative think tanks including the Global Warming Policy Foundation. In fact, the interview largely centered on the right-wing think tank response to the IPCC report, the NIPCC report, which is neither a legitimate scientific document, nor skeptical. Rather it is http://www.skepticalscience.com/news.php?n=1295" rel="nofollow - the epitome of cherry picking and myth regurgitation .

If the BBC wants to give airtime to "dissenting voices" in climate, it should http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/oct/04/global-warming-debate-not-about-science" rel="nofollow - invite them to debate policy solutions . Amplifying the voices of climate contrarians who reject fundamental aspects of climate science is not constructive. As Masood admitted,

"Very few journalists (at least in the developed world) would give space to those claiming HIV doesn't cause Aids, to flat-Earthers, or those who believe that vaccines make us ill."

Will the BBC begin following every Attenborough program by giving Creationists airtime? Giving space to those like Bob Carter that reject the expert consensus on human-caused http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-change" rel="nofollow - climate change is no different. It amplifies the voices of the 3 percent minority and creates the false impression of a division amongst climate experts. As a result, http://www.theconsensusproject.com/images/sharable/TCP-social-media-image-gap2.jpg" rel="nofollow - only 45 percent of Americans are aware of the 97 percent expert consensus on human-caused global warming.

Media false balance as illustrated in the IPCC reporting by outlets like the BBC, Wall Street Journal, and Fox News is largely to blame for this " http://www.skepticalscience.com/Help-close-consensus-gap-using-social-media.html" rel="nofollow - consensus gap ." This practice of false balance misinforms the public and does us all a disservice.



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Satori
Date Posted: October 11 2013 at 2:55pm

and people are still arguing about the dangers of smoking


"why my grandfather lived to be 350 years old and he smoked 10 packs a day ,

unfiltered too !!!  "


"and he drank like a fish AND he ran with scissors !!! "



Posted By: DANNYKELLEY
Date Posted: October 11 2013 at 3:11pm
And drove without a seat belt

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WHAT TO DO????


Posted By: Strategos
Date Posted: October 11 2013 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

well said Turboguy,

thats what makes me laugh when i hear we have to reduce or carbon output to 1990

levels or about 50%, that means , we have to stay at home and do nothing for 3.5 days of the week

given that the population is now 7+billion people and 300  years ago the population was about 2+ billion


and everyone of those people  burn carbon to live


 so to think that the carbon that has been taken from the atmosphere over millions of years and pump it

back into the air  will have no affect seems very naive to me ,

 


I happen to agree with you. There are many variable in any given system, and we are one. If any variable is altered, some by just a very tiny amount, then you will have a change occur in the system as a whole. So yes, I do believe that what we do, humans do, have an impact on what is going on. The question is: how much of an impact are we having? Your guess is as good as mine, but I do know we are having an impact. To deny this is to deny cause and effect which is insane. 


Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: October 11 2013 at 5:08pm
I'm not convinced yet. People used to burn witches, believe in blood letting and shock therapy. However, I think we should err on the side of caution. If we're serious about this then why aren't building codes changing to require passive solar or solar panels?

Why aren't businesses closed on Sunday to save energy on lights & heat?

I don't believe that most people would make even the smallest changes such as turning off a light or turning their AC off for even a day. This is an uphill battle.

www.earthday.org


Posted By: Crying Out Loud
Date Posted: October 11 2013 at 8:37pm
Look at the bright side. If the preppers are right.... and ...there is an apocalypse...the grid will go down....global warming will become the great global cooling off period....preppers will be excited because they can practice all of their skills. Everyone will be so embarrassed and bow down to those who knew...the truth...about the future...and prepared properly.
 
For protection...preppers will create mini communities. They will create various compacts and laws...much like those great pilgrims who came to explore and take hold of far off lands on floating ships. These prepper forces will subject anyone who was not able or chose not to prep...to be the new labor force...for the preppers. Power struggles and imbalances will continue on. New thrones will be created. Others will be crushed.
 
The topics of today will be replaced with the same...but different...yet really the same conversations. The unjust and unethical world with a power grid will be replaced with another unjust and unethical world without a power grid...or whatever scenario one's mind can envision.  The disgusting and foul agendas of one time period, will merely be replaced with more disgusting and foul agendas of another time.
 
The world reminds me of a huge trash pit. The bulldozers come in to turn over and churn under the trash of the day...to be buried and hidden...from the new trash that will come in tomorrow. Each day is the same....the days become years...and the years become milleniums. One right after another.
 
Costumes and scenery change. Time continues on. Yet...the intellects continue to stay in perpetual limbo.


Posted By: Mahshadin
Date Posted: October 11 2013 at 9:52pm
"Our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this planet
We all breath the same air
We all Cherish our children's future 
 
And we are all mortal"
 
 
 
 
John F Kennedy


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"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell


Posted By: Crying Out Loud
Date Posted: October 12 2013 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Mahshadin Mahshadin wrote:

"Our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this planet
We all breath the same air
We all Cherish our children's future 
 
And we are all mortal"
 
 
 
 
John F Kennedy
 
You and I are held captive by the illogical ideology, of this so called planet. Our minds, bodies, spirits and souls are defined and used according to the dictates of negative non progressive intelligence. We are as refugees from other worlds who have arrived in the realm, with no memory of the past, to positively direct and guide us. I do not believe we are in this world...willingly. Meaning; we did not come here; of our own free will and desire; free from threat, duress and coercion. It is my very strong belief, that we are all being held perpetually captive, to a negative life force, that is way beneath our positive intelligence.
 
We are wrongly subject to those who do not have out best positive, progressive and ethical needs and purposes in mind. Yet this negative and obscene power structure is free to dictate how we shall attempt to live in this particular world. A far lower intellect, has some how managed to confuse, lure, trap and hold, positive intelligence hostage; for a very, very long time.
 
An atmospheric prison camp realm; that breaks off into other camps of refugees, subjection, oppression and confinement. We know only what we have been allowed to learn. How much of this knowledge is false? A negative, senseless mindset holds us as mere subjects;  we have been devalued, disregarded, demeaned and horribly violated, by this low base collective.
 
These negative ideals and so called sciences are taught and passed on from one generation unto the next. As long as we walk, talk and sing the praises of the collective farces; we are considered in league and one with them. This is what they have instructed and forced upon our majestic minds. This is what they demand of us; unto our destruction, and annihilation.
 
 Haven't you ever wondered why individuals are only allowed so many years in this atmosphere? No one can live long enough to say that the past as it is being presented is false. No one alive to be witness to events as they took placed in times...past. This keeps the individuals who are held capitive to the collective farce...perpetually willing to be subject and worship the unjustified killing machine.
 
As mere breeders for a negative intelligence, we own nothing. All individuality is the property of the collective. To disagree is to be a heretic of the worldly refugee planetary system.  
 
You speak of children. As a mere breeder, you are nothing more than a Figure Head. You may be addressed as Mother and Father, but that is status in name only. You have no real power, or you could openly take your family and leave this world, through the venue of moral suicide. That is not the case. You and your family belong to the collective.
 
 If individuals and families were to see the reality of this horror and say, "No more!" and walk out...it would be the beginning of the end... of the perpetual death march. This planetary collective would fail and fall.


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: October 12 2013 at 10:17am
Originally posted by Strategos Strategos wrote:

To deny this is to deny cause and effect which is insane.


Thumbs Up


-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: Iowa102
Date Posted: October 13 2013 at 10:20pm

UN climate panel blames humans for global warming, as if global warming is a fact instead of a theory or belief. I wonder if that report contains any of the data that was found to be "invented" by proponents of global warming or other data that was found to be "altered" to fit the theory of global warming.

When I hear about record amounts of ice in the arctic right now - well, it just doesn't make sense.




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Those who publicly blame an object for the users abuse are promoting irresponsible behavior.


Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 8:40am
Hey crying,

You keep talking about moral suicide, but I'm still waiting for you to either get on some serious medication or leave. It's a shame that nobody can live up to your expectations.

Try posting something negative next time
so we can try to understand how you really feel!


Posted By: Crying Out Loud
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 10:36am
Elver, exactly what...are my so called expectations?


Posted By: Medclinician2013
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 11:54am
The article posted is about global warming. What is the correlation between that and overpopulation or a pandemic? Overpopulation is a given, yet the last Pandemic was rather impotent in a global high-percentage CFR. There is no need for a Pandemic. This is reflected in the harsh attitude of Scrooge in A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens.

“If they would rather die,” said Scrooge, “they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/artcarden/2010/12/15/surplus-population-sorry-mr-scrooge-but-youre-mistaken/" rel="nofollow - http://www.forbes.com/sites/artcarden/2010/12/15/surplus-population-sorry-mr-scrooge-but-youre-mistaken/

The death rate in 2009 varies radically with the later study which reflects one that is 15-30 times more than official U.S. data reflects.

Source link:

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2812%2970121-4/abstract" rel="nofollow - http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2812%2970121-4/abstract

Findings:

We estimate that globally there were 201 200 respiratory deaths (range 105 700—395 600) with an additional 83 300 cardiovascular deaths (46 000—179 900) associated with 2009 pandemic influenza A H1N1. 80% of the respiratory and cardiovascular deaths were in people younger than 65 years and 51% occurred in southeast Asia and Africa.

comment: Even though considerably more than reported in the U.S., considering additional contributing factor deaths, there would have been 575,900 at the most extreme case count.  Roughly 600,000, with a global population at the end of 2009 of 6.8 billion.

http://www.chegg.com/homework-help/questions-and-answers/end-2009-global-population-68-billion-people-mass-glucose-kgwould-needed-provide-1900-cal--q1654745" rel="nofollow - http://www.chegg.com/homework-help/questions-and-answers/end-2009-global-population-68-billion-people-mass-glucose-kgwould-needed-provide-1900-cal--q1654745

which would be a .0082% CFR.  This certainly was not enough to do anything to significantly decrease the world population.

The number of cases during the Swine Flu epidemic in the cases in New York was vastly unreported and the case count could possibly have dwarfed the entire estimation for the world by Lancet.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/new-york-city-swine-flu-case-tally-high-500-000-cdc-article-1.377239%20" rel="nofollow -
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/new-york-city-swine-flu-case-tally-high-500-000-cdc-article-1.377239

New research estimates that half a million New Yorkers have been infected by swine flu.

The alarming data was released Friday by the http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Centers+for+Disease+Control+and+Prevention" rel="nofollow - Centers for Disease Control and Prevention , which estimated there have been 50 times more cases nationwide than have been reported to health authorities.

"We're saying that there have been at least a million cases of the new H1N1 virus so far this year in the http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/United+States" rel="nofollow - United States ," said http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Anne+Schuchat" rel="nofollow - Anne Schuchat , director of the http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/National+Center+for+Immunization+and+Respiratory+Diseases" rel="nofollow - CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases .

"Reported cases are really just the tip of the iceberg."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic

One of the worst in history the 1918 pandemic racked up some serious numbers but had no real major impact on the the world population.

The 1918 flu pandemic (January 1918 – December 1920) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic#cite_note-1" rel="nofollow - [1] was an unusually deadly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_pandemic" rel="nofollow - influenza pandemic , the first of the two pandemics involving https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_A_virus_subtype_H1N1" rel="nofollow - H1N1 influenza virus (the second being the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic" rel="nofollow - 2009 flu pandemic ). It infected 500 million https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic#cite_note-cdc2006-2" rel="nofollow - [2] people across the world, including remote Pacific islands and the Arctic, and killed 50 to 100 million of them—3 to 5 percent of the world's population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic#cite_note-3" rel="nofollow - [3] at the time—making it one of the deadliest natural disasters in human history.


Conclusion: The final evaluation as to the effect of a real Pandemic on the number of people globally is a real hard number to guesstimate. The real numbers of CFR in the current Mers CoV fatality are about 43%.  Perhaps if such a super bug could be spread more efficiently, it could create a pandemic 10x worse than the one in 1918.

This would have made Scrooge happy.

“If they would rather die,” said Scrooge, “they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.”

The resulting deaths could be as high as a billion people.

Medclinician




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Medclinician - not if but when - original


Posted By: Crying Out Loud
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 5:15pm
Medclinician you mentioned Scrooge. Such a funny story. I like the version where Scrooge is with one of the ghosts, and he sees all of the people who owe him money, and they are singing and dancing outside of his establishment. Of course, this being a visionary presentation of future events, the debters do not see Scrooge.
They are singing the song, "Thank You Very Much" Thank you very much, that's the nicest thing anyone's ever done, for me...thankyou very much that's the nicest thing that anyone has ever done for me.!" Then the ghost shows Scrooge the tomb stone with Scrooge's name on it. The debters debts were forgiven on the death of the money lender.
One has to feel sorry for Scrooge. He had nothing of value, because he had no values.
 


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 21 2013 at 4:10am
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/issue/" rel="nofollow"> ThinkProgress Logo

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/10/20/2806631/miami-herald-flooding-sea-level-rise/" rel="nofollow - Miami Herald Story On City’s Worsening Coastal Flooding Never Mentions Global Warming Or Sea Level Rise

By http://thinkprogress.org/person/joe/" rel="nofollow - Joe Romm on October 20, 2013 at 12:38 pm

800px-Miami-skyline-for-wikipedia-07-11-2007-by-tom-schaefer-miamitom

It seems nobody talks about climate change, but everybody wants to do something about it. Consider this head-in-the-wet-sand http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/10/17/3695685/rain-or-no-rain-beachfront-streets.html" rel="nofollow - piece from the Miami Herald, “Rain or no rain, beachfront streets flood due to ‘spring tide’.”

You probably think it would be impossible for an entire news article on worsening street flooding in Miami to omit any mention whatsoever of global warming or even sea level rise. Think again.

“It gets super flooded from the tide every couple of months,” said [Moses] Schwartz who lived on the island for more than 20 years before moving to the Brickell area on the mainland. “It’s getting worse and worse as the years go by.”

Hmm. Why is it getting worse? The Miami Herald offers no explanation. This is all it has to say about the cause of the flooding:

The current levels of high tide are caused by an astronomical event known as “spring tide,” according to Chuck Caracozza, a meteorologist from the National Weather Service.

See, nothing to worry about. It’s just high tides. Except the article runs with this quote from Schwartz:

“It’ll be interesting to see what happens to Miami Beach in 10 to 20 years,” he said.

Why? Why? Why? Why will it be interesting to see? Why does he think it’s going to get worse? Why did the reporter include that quote? No explanation is given.

Indeed, while the article fails to mention climate change or sea level rise, it does quote one “Nanette Rodriguez, a spokeswoman for the city,” explaining that Miami is studying how to deal with this apparently inexplicable plague of street flooding.

Rodriguez said the city is thinking of short-term fixes to deal with the issue.

“We’re looking at improving our sea walls and raising some of them,” she said.

In search of a long-term solution, a delegation recently returned from the Netherlands, Rodriguez said, and the city will determine which of that country’s strategies to hold back high tides can be used here.

“Some of their ideas we can do, others we can’t as we are in different geographic areas,” Rodriguez said.

That last quote from Rodriguez is quite the euphemism given the reality of the region’s topology and geology. As the must-read June Rolling Stone piece, “ http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-the-city-of-miami-is-doomed-to-drown-20130620#ixzz2X0NGzxLY" rel="nofollow - Goodbye, Miami ,” explains:

Even worse, South Florida sits above a vast and porous limestone plateau. “Imagine Swiss cheese, and you’ll have a pretty good idea what the rock under southern Florida looks like,” says Glenn Landers, a senior engineer at the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. This means water moves around easily – it seeps into yards at high tide, bubbles up on golf courses, flows through underground caverns, corrodes building foundations from below. “Conventional sea walls and barriers are not effective here,” says Robert Daoust, an ecologist at ARCADIS, a Dutch firm that specializes in engineering solutions to rising seas.’oh.

But, undaunted, Rodriguez and the Miami Herald end with this reassuring line:

Rodriguez said the tide should be back to normal by early next week.

#FAIL

For a dose of reality, let’s end instead with the Rolling Stone piece:

But the unavoidable truth is that sea levels are rising and Miami is on its way to becoming an American Atlantis. It may be another century before the city is completely underwater (though some more-pessimistic­ scientists predict it could be much sooner), but life in the vibrant metropolis of 5.5 million people will begin to dissolve much quicker, most likely within a few decades. The rising waters will destroy Miami slowly, by seeping into wiring, roads, building foundations and drinking-water supplies – and quickly, by increasing the destructive power of hurricanes. “Miami, as we know it today, is doomed,” says Harold Wanless, the chairman of the department of geological sciences at the University of Miami. “It’s not a question of if. It’s a question of when.”

… “If you live in South Florida and you’re not building a boat, you’re not facing reality.”

Tags:

  • http://thinkprogress.org/tag/climate-change/" rel="nofollow - Climate Change
  • http://thinkprogress.org/tag/miami/" rel="nofollow - Miami
  • http://thinkprogress.org/tag/sea-level-rise/" rel="nofollow - Sea Level Rise


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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 21 2013 at 4:18am
                                           GLOBAL WARMING IS HAPPENING,

97% of scientist agree, it's NOT a theory ,we are changing the planet,

the disaster you are all preping for is happening  now,

 WAKE UP,


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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 21 2013 at 4:20am

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions" rel="nofollow -
                                 The Post’s View

Congress turns a blind eye to global warming

  • http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/congress-turns-a-blind-eye-to-global-warming/2013/10/20/b5e42594-36b8-11e3-8a0e-4e2cf80831fc_allComments.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/congress-turns-a-blind-eye-to-global-warming/2013/10/20/b5e42594-36b8-11e3-8a0e-4e2cf80831fc_story.html#" rel="nofollow - http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/congress-turns-a-blind-eye-to-global-warming/2013/10/20/b5e42594-36b8-11e3-8a0e-4e2cf80831fc_story.html#" rel="nofollow - http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/congress-turns-a-blind-eye-to-global-warming/2013/10/20/b5e42594-36b8-11e3-8a0e-4e2cf80831fc_story.html#" rel="nofollow - http://personalpost.washingtonpost.com/c?add_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fopinions%2Fcongress-turns-a-blind-eye-to-global-warming%2F2013%2F10%2F20%2Fb5e42594-36b8-11e3-8a0e-4e2cf80831fc_story.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/congress-turns-a-blind-eye-to-global-warming/2013/10/20/b5e42594-36b8-11e3-8a0e-4e2cf80831fc_email.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/congress-turns-a-blind-eye-to-global-warming/2013/10/20/b5e42594-36b8-11e3-8a0e-4e2cf80831fc_print.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/congress-turns-a-blind-eye-to-global-warming/2013/10/20/b5e42594-36b8-11e3-8a0e-4e2cf80831fc_story.html#" rel="nofollow - More

By http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-posts-view/2011/12/07/gIQAoEIscO_page.html" rel="nofollow - Editorial Board , Monday, October 21, 7:44 AM

THIS WASN’T THE dramatic news that opponents of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) were hoping for: Last Tuesday, http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/supreme-court-will-review-epas-authority-to-regulate-power-plant-and-factory-emissions/2013/10/15/eedc1214-35ad-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f_story.html" rel="nofollow - the Supreme Court declined to consider a variety of challenges to the EPA’s effort to slash greenhouse gas emissions.

But the news wasn’t a total victory for environmentalists. The court announced it would hear one challenge to the agency’s regulations: The Justice Department will have to convince the court that the EPA has the power under the Clean Air Act to put carbon-dioxide limits on so-called stationary sources — power plants, cement mixers and the like — using a powerful permitting program. If the court disagrees, it could rip some teeth out of the agency’s greenhouse gas effort.

Washington Post Editorials

Editorials represent the views of The Washington Post as an institution, as determined through debate among members of the editorial board. News reporters and editors never contribute to editorial board discussions, and editorial board members don’t have any role in news coverage.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/the-posts-view/2011/12/07/gIQAoEIscO_page.html" rel="nofollow - Read more

Latest Editorials

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/high-court-to-rule-on-warrantless-wiretapping/2013/10/20/37bbc808-377f-11e3-8a0e-4e2cf80831fc_story.html" rel="nofollow - Secret spying

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/congress-turns-a-blind-eye-to-global-warming/2013/10/20/b5e42594-36b8-11e3-8a0e-4e2cf80831fc_story.html" rel="nofollow - Where’s Congress?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/congress-turns-a-blind-eye-to-global-warming/2013/10/20/b5e42594-36b8-11e3-8a0e-4e2cf80831fc_story.html" rel="nofollow">Where’s Congress?

Congress passed the Clean Air Act in the 1970s, when the air pollutants of concern were substances such as lead or particulate matter. Lawmakers wrote the law broadly, with the intent to regulate a variety of known and then-unknown pollutants. But the law’s language doesn’t fit perfectly when applied to carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases, in part because virtually everyone and everything produces carbon dioxide.

The high court sorted through some of the confusion in 2007 with its landmark Mass. v. EPA decision, in which it confirmed that greenhouse gases are pollutants for the purposes of the Clean Air Act. Following that, the EPA set fuel-efficiency standards on cars and light trucks. Then the agency announced it would begin to regulate stationary sources, which would cut down on the amount of dirty coal burned. The justices on Tuesday refused to reconsider their 2007 ruling and let stand the regulations on vehicles. But they agreed to hear arguments against a piece of the EPA’s move to regulate power plants.

http://sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Texas-v-EPA-certiorari-petition-Filed.pdf" rel="nofollow - Opponents argue that, since applying every word of the law to greenhouse gas emissions immediately would produce “absurd” results, Congress never could have intended that there be a permitting program, which obliges big polluters to get special permits and install pollution-control technology. http://sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/12-1146-Greenhouse-Gas-Opp-FINAL.pdf" rel="nofollow - The government argues that the EPA’s job is to apply the law to greenhouse emissions as far and as fast as the agency reasonably can. A http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/aep-agrees-to-close-3-coal-plants-in-emissions-lawsuit/2013/02/25/a11f1a96-7f5d-11e2-b99e-6baf4ebe42df_story.html" rel="nofollow - recent Supreme Court ruling found that the government has a coherent greenhouse gas policy in place, which indicates that the Obama administration stands a good shot at defending its right to pursue that policy. But the justices could have simply let lower court rulings stand; a pro-EPA outcome is far from guaranteed.

The overriding problem is that Congress hasn’t faced up to the global-warming threat. Instead of updating clean air rules and building a policy that addresses the unique challenge of greenhouse emissions, it has left the EPA and the courts with a strong but sometimes ambiguous law that applies imperfectly to greenhouse emissions. In the absence of congressional action, the EPA’s approach — interpreting the confusing text of the Clean Air Act in light of its overriding purpose to combat threatening air pollution — is the right one.

Read more on this issue from Opinions:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/we-cant-let-maryland-become-a-greenhouse-gas-hot-spot/2013/10/18/ae514a32-34f6-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f_story.html" rel="nofollow - Mike Tidwell: We can’t let Maryland become a greenhouse gas hot spot



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 21 2013 at 4:26am

Sen. Sanders: ‘Global Warming Is a Far More Serious Problem Than Al Qaeda’

by http://sandiegofreepress.org/author/source/" rel="nofollow - Source on October 20, 2013 · http://sandiegofreepress.org/2013/10/sen-sanders-global-warming-is-a-far-more-serious-problem-than-al-qaeda/#comments" rel="nofollow - 1 comment

in http://sandiegofreepress.org/category/business/" rel="nofollow - Business , http://sandiegofreepress.org/category/activism/environment/" rel="nofollow - Environment , http://sandiegofreepress.org/category/politics/" rel="nofollow - Politics

In new interview with Playboy, the Vermont senator laments the collapsed middle class, corporate power.

By Andrea Germanos / http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/10/18-4" rel="nofollow - Common Dreams

http://sandiegofreepress.org/2013/10/sen-sanders-global-warming-is-a-far-more-serious-problem-than-al-qaeda/sanders_playboy/" rel="nofollow">sanders_playboy

Sanders speaking about the government shutdown’s impacts. (Photo: AFGE/cc/flickr)

In a newly published interview, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) blasts the “unfettered capitalism” that has collapsed the middle class, and the corporate power fueling climate change, which poses a “far more serious problem than Al Qaeda.”

Sanders speaking about the government shutdown’s impacts. (Photo: AFGE/cc/flickr) Speaking with economics writer Jonathan Tasini for the http://www.playboy.com/playground/view/bernie-sanders-playboy-interview" rel="nofollow - interview with http://www.playboy.com/playground/view/bernie-sanders-playboy-interview" rel="nofollow - Playboy , the 72-year-old Independent senator said that “one of the untold stories of our time is the collapse of the American middle class.” It’s due, in part, to “the decline of trade unions,” which means that workers “have less power to negotiate contracts and less political clout.”

It’s a system that has brought immense inequality, he says.

“We are in the midst of intense class warfare, where the wealthiest people and the largest corporations are at war with the middle class and working families of this country, and it is obvious the big-money interests are winning that war.”

It’s a “hypercapitalist society,” where there are even efforts to “privatize water, for God’s sake,” and the function of the current health care system is “to make as much money out of it as possible,” he told Tasini.

When Tasini told Sanders, “You make the U.S. sound like a banana republic in which a handful of families control all the economic and political power,” Sanders responded simply, “Yes, it is. In more technical economic terms I would call it an oligarchy.”

It’s a system that has put corporate interests above people—and the planet.

“You have the entire scientific community saying we have to be very aggressive in cutting greenhouse gas emissions,” Sanders told Playboy. “Yet you’re seeing the heads of coal companies and oil companies willing to sacrifice the well-being of the entire planet for their short-term profits. And these folks are funding phony organizations to try to create doubt about the reality of global warming.”

It’s “incomprehensible,” he said, that “ig business is willing to destroy the planet for short-term profits.”

“And because of their power over the political process, you hear a deafening silence in the U.S. Congress and in other bodies around the world about the severity of the problem. Global warming is a far more serious problem than Al Qaeda.”

As for any hopes Sanders supporters have that the senator will make a bid for the White House, he told Tasini, “I am at least 99 percent sure I won’t.”



-------------
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 22 2013 at 3:47am

UN climate chief's tears over future generations

Matt McGrath By Matt McGrath Environment correspondent, BBC News
Christiana Figueres Ms Figueres is shown here addressing delegates at the last major meeting of negotiators at Doha in 2012
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24615946#story_continues_1" rel="nofollow - Continue reading the main story

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The head of the UN body tasked with delivering a global climate treaty broke down in tears at a meeting in London as she spoke about the impact of global warming on coming generations.

Christiana Figueres told the BBC that the lack of an agreement was "condemning future generations before they are even born".

Ms Figueres said this was "completely unfair and immoral".

Despite the slow pace of negotiations, she said a deal can be done by 2015.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24615946#story_continues_2" rel="nofollow - Continue reading the main story

Start Quote

We have a choice to change the future we are going to give our children”

Christiana Figueres UNFCCC Executive Secretary

Costa Rica-born Christiana Figueres has been the Executive Secretary of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) for the last three years.

Steadying the ship

Taking over after the http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8426835.stm" rel="nofollow - failure of the talks process in Copenhagen in 2009, Ms Figueres has carefully steered the parties forward.

Delegates http://www.un.org/wcm/content/site/climatechange/pages/gateway/the-negotiations/durban" rel="nofollow - agreed in Durban in 2011 that a new global deal must be signed by 2015 and come into force from 2020.

But Ms Figueres' passionate approach to progress has been tested by the slow, tortuous UN process, where consensus is the only way forward.

"I am always frustrated by the pace of the negotiations, I was born impatient. We are moving way, way too slowly, but we are moving in the right direction and that's what gives me courage and hope," she said.

Speaking to the BBC on the sidelines of a http://www.chathamhouse.org/climate2013" rel="nofollow - climate conference at Chatham House in London, Ms Figueres became tearful when she reflected on the impact that climate change might have on coming generations.

"I'm committed to climate change because of future generations, it is not about us, right? We're out of here," she said.

"I just feel that it is so completely unfair and immoral what we are doing to future generations, we are condemning them before they are even born."

"We have a choice about it, that's the point, we have a choice. If it were inevitable then so be it, but we have a choice to change the future we are going to give our children."

Text on the table

She said that she was hopeful an agreement could be signed in Paris in 2015 but if that was going to happen, then significant progress had to be made in the next 12 months.

There would need to be the draft text of an agreement when the parties meet in Peru in 2014.

She said she was determined to avoid the mistakes that were made in the run up to Copenhagen in 2009, when expectations of a far reaching global compact faltered.

"We are not going to have another Copenhagen - the leaders of the world are not just being brought in at the last minute, to face 300 pages of text that is completely impossible to digest.

Next year would see a http://www.rtcc.org/2013/09/24/ban-ki-moon-calls-on-world-leaders-to-unite-at-2014-climate-summit/" rel="nofollow - special climate summit of world leaders called by UN secretary general Ban Ki-Moon. Ms Figueres is hopeful that this will clear the road ahead of the Paris meeting in 2015.

"It is not going to be in Paris, going into all the technical details of how to build the agreement which is what we had in Copenhagen. The structure and logic of an agreement need to be in place.

"This is way too complex and way too challenging to wait until the last minute in 2015."

This year's http://unfccc.int/meetings/warsaw_nov_2013/meeting/7649.php" rel="nofollow - Conference of the Parties to the UNFCCC will take place next month in Poland.

Chasing pirates

Some environmental campaigners are concerned that because of the country's http://www.platts.com/latest-news/coal/london/poland-to-remain-dependent-on-coal-for-years-26259860" rel="nofollow - heavy dependence on coal , it is less committed to strong action on climate change.

Critics took issue with comments on an official website for the conference that http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/oct/10/malting-arctic-ice-pirate-chases-cop19-organisers" rel="nofollow - suggested there were many positives to the unprecedented melting of Arctic ice, including the opportunity to chase "pirates, terrorists and ecologists".

But Ms Figueres dismissed concerns about the meeting.

"They have shown themselves to be very committed to this process, the COP president (Polish environment minister Marcin Korolec) has put in an extraordinary amount of time into learning and making himself familiar with the endless intricacies of this issue," she said.

Follow Matt on http://twitter.com/mattmcgrathbbc" rel="nofollow - Twitter .

More on This Story

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    25 JULY 2012, SCIENCE & ENVIRONMENT

Related Internet links

  • http://www.cop19.gov.pl/" rel="nofollow - Home - COP19 - CMP9, Conference of Parties and climate change conference
  • http://unfccc.int/2860.php" rel="nofollow - United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change

The BBC is not responsible for the content of external Internet sites



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 27 2013 at 4:34am

Arctic temperatures hotter now than in 44,000 years

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/authors/677736" rel="nofollow - Yereth Rosen
October 25, 2013
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/20131025/arctic-temperatures-hotter-now-44000-years#" rel="nofollow - Share on emailEmail http://www.alaskadispatch.com/print/article/20131025/arctic-temperatures-hotter-now-44000-years" rel="nofollow - Print http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/20131025/arctic-temperatures-hotter-now-44000-years" rel="nofollow - -A +A

Ancient plants exposed by newly melted ice on Baffin Island suggest that summers in the eastern Canadian Arctic are warmer now than they have been for at least 44,000 years, and possibly for about three times that long, according to a new study published online this week in http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2013GL057188/abstract" rel="nofollow - the journal Geophysical Research Letters .

Those rooted plants were ice-covered even 11,000 years ago, when the northern hemisphere was at its closest possible position to the sun due to the planet's tilt and rotation, the study says. In that period, known as the Holocene Thermal Maximum, the northern hemisphere received 9 percent more solar heat than it does today.

With the eastern Canadian Arctic now basking in warmer summers than even at that period, the only logical explanation is man-made carbon emissions, said project leader http://instaar.colorado.edu/people/gifford-h-miller/" rel="nofollow - Gifford Miller of the University of Colorado .

Natural cycles cannot explain the results, he said.

Miller, associate director of http://instaar.colorado.edu/" rel="nofollow - Colorado's Institute of Arctic and Alpine Research , and his fellow scientists based their research on samples collected over three field seasons on Baffin Island. There, the researchers collected fist-sized mosses that were popping out of newly-uncovered earth. The old plants were measured by radiocarbon dating as 44,000 to 51,000 years old. Since radiocarbon dating cannot measure reliably beyond about 50,000 years, the newly uncovered plants could be could be much older -- up to 120,000 years old, according to Miller and his fellow researchers.

Well-known examination of ice cores from nearby Greenland shows that the last time the Arctic was potentially as warm as it is today was 120,000 years ago, at the end of the last interglacial period.

No matter how old the dead plants are, they didn't appear at first to be much different from the young plants growing far outside the ice’s edge, Miller said in a telephone interview.  

"These plants are rooted. So when they come out, they look just like the tundra plants that are alive, but they’re dead," he said.

But the dead plants, once exposed to the elements, can crumble or else disintegrate in wind or water, Miller said. So he and his colleagues, ferried to Baffin Island by helicopter, had to work fast to collect their samples.

Those very old plants were, until the recent melting, held fast by high-altitude ice that did not move around, Miller said.

While probing the edges of that ice, the scientists did find other objects exposed, including caribou bones. But since animal bones are mobile, they don’t provide as much information as the old, rooted plants, he said.

“The nice thing about plants is we know they haven’t moved,” he said.

Among the 365 samples collected were younger plants found at lower elevations, covered up by ice for about the last 3,000 to 4,000 years, Miller said. But those areas of ice were more dynamic and mobile, formed during a relatively recent 5,000-year period of cooling, when local summer temperatures dropped by about 2.7 degrees Celsius, according to the scientists’ research.

The fact that there was cooling in that period, http://www.colorado.edu/news/multimedia/little-ice-age" rel="nofollow - which included the Little Ice Age , makes the discovery of newly exposed plants that are at least 44,000 years old even more significant, Miller said. It means that the region’s heat-up occurred rapidly in the last century, and is likely to continue there at a similarly rapid pace, he said. Commonly used models of future warming are probably too conservative, he said. “The models are underestimating Arctic amplification,” he said.

Miller and his colleagues returned to Baffin Island this summer, and also began collecting and testing plants from Svalbard, Greenland and Iceland to see if they are of the same vintage.

Contact Yereth Rosen at mailto:yereth@alaskadispatch.com" rel="nofollow - yereth(at)alaskadispatch.com

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/authors/677736" rel="nofollow - Yereth Rosen
October 25, 2013

Ancient plants exposed by newly melted ice on Baffin Island suggest that summers in the eastern Canadian Arctic are warmer now than they have been for at least 44,000 years, and possibly for about three times that long, according to a new study published online this week in http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2013GL057188/abstract" rel="nofollow - the journal Geophysical Research Letters .

Those rooted plants were ice-covered even 11,000 years ago, when the northern hemisphere was at its closest possible position to the sun due to the planet's tilt and rotation, the study says. In that period, known as the Holocene Thermal Maximum, the northern hemisphere received 9 percent more solar heat than it does today.

With the eastern Canadian Arctic now basking in warmer summers than even at that period, the only logical explanation is man-made carbon emissions, said project leader http://instaar.colorado.edu/people/gifford-h-miller/" rel="nofollow - Gifford Miller of the University of Colorado .

Natural cycles cannot explain the results, he said.

Miller, associate director of http://instaar.colorado.edu/" rel="nofollow - Colorado's Institute of Arctic and Alpine Research , and his fellow scientists based their research on samples collected over three field seasons on Baffin Island. There, the researchers collected fist-sized mosses that were popping out of newly-uncovered earth. The old plants were measured by radiocarbon dating as 44,000 to 51,000 years old. Since radiocarbon dating cannot measure reliably beyond about 50,000 years, the newly uncovered plants could be could be much older -- up to 120,000 years old, according to Miller and his fellow researchers.

Well-known examination of ice cores from nearby Greenland shows that the last time the Arctic was potentially as warm as it is today was 120,000 years ago, at the end of the last interglacial period.

No matter how old the dead plants are, they didn't appear at first to be much different from the young plants growing far outside the ice’s edge, Miller said in a telephone interview.  

"These plants are rooted. So when they come out, they look just like the tundra plants that are alive, but they’re dead," he said.

But the dead plants, once exposed to the elements, can crumble or else disintegrate in wind or water, Miller said. So he and his colleagues, ferried to Baffin Island by helicopter, had to work fast to collect their samples.

Those very old plants were, until the recent melting, held fast by high-altitude ice that did not move around, Miller said.

While probing the edges of that ice, the scientists did find other objects exposed, including caribou bones. But since animal bones are mobile, they don’t provide as much information as the old, rooted plants, he said.

“The nice thing about plants is we know they haven’t moved,” he said.

Among the 365 samples collected were younger plants found at lower elevations, covered up by ice for about the last 3,000 to 4,000 years, Miller said. But those areas of ice were more dynamic and mobile, formed during a relatively recent 5,000-year period of cooling, when local summer temperatures dropped by about 2.7 degrees Celsius, according to the scientists’ research.

The fact that there was cooling in that period, http://www.colorado.edu/news/multimedia/little-ice-age" rel="nofollow - which included the Little Ice Age , makes the discovery of newly exposed plants that are at least 44,000 years old even more significant, Miller said. It means that the region’s heat-up occurred rapidly in the last century, and is likely to continue there at a similarly rapid pace, he said. Commonly used models of future warming are probably too conservative, he said. “The models are underestimating Arctic amplification,” he said.

Miller and his colleagues returned to Baffin Island this summer, and also began collecting and testing plants from Svalbard, Greenland and Iceland to see if they are of the same vintage.

Contact Yereth Rosen at mailto:yereth@alaskadispatch.com" rel="nofollow - yereth(at)alaskadispatch.com

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Arctic temperatures hotter now than in 44,000 years

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/authors/677736" rel="nofollow - Yereth Rosen
October 25, 2013

Ancient plants exposed by newly melted ice on Baffin Island suggest that summers in the eastern Canadian Arctic are warmer now than they have been for at least 44,000 years, and possibly for about three times that long, according to a new study published online this week in http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2013GL057188/abstract" rel="nofollow - the journal Geophysical Research Letters .

Those rooted plants were ice-covered even 11,000 years ago, when the northern hemisphere was at its closest possible position to the sun due to the planet's tilt and rotation, the study says. In that period, known as the Holocene Thermal Maximum, the northern hemisphere received 9 percent more solar heat than it does today.

With the eastern Canadian Arctic now basking in warmer summers than even at that period, the only logical explanation is man-made carbon emissions, said project leader http://instaar.colorado.edu/people/gifford-h-miller/" rel="nofollow - Gifford Miller of the University of Colorado .

Natural cycles cannot explain the results, he said.

Miller, associate director of http://instaar.colorado.edu/" rel="nofollow - Colorado's Institute of Arctic and Alpine Research , and his fellow scientists based their research on samples collected over three field seasons on Baffin Island. There, the researchers collected fist-sized mosses that were popping out of newly-uncovered earth. The old plants were measured by radiocarbon dating as 44,000 to 51,000 years old. Since radiocarbon dating cannot measure reliably beyond about 50,000 years, the newly uncovered plants could be could be much older -- up to 120,000 years old, according to Miller and his fellow researchers.

Well-known examination of ice cores from nearby Greenland shows that the last time the Arctic was potentially as warm as it is today was 120,000 years ago, at the end of the last interglacial period.

No matter how old the dead plants are, they didn't appear at first to be much different from the young plants growing far outside the ice’s edge, Miller said in a telephone interview.  

"These plants are rooted. So when they come out, they look just like the tundra plants that are alive, but they’re dead," he said.

But the dead plants, once exposed to the elements, can crumble or else disintegrate in wind or water, Miller said. So he and his colleagues, ferried to Baffin Island by helicopter, had to work fast to collect their samples.

Those very old plants were, until the recent melting, held fast by high-altitude ice that did not move around, Miller said.

While probing the edges of that ice, the scientists did find other objects exposed, including caribou bones. But since animal bones are mobile, they don’t provide as much information as the old, rooted plants, he said.

“The nice thing about plants is we know they haven’t moved,” he said.

Among the 365 samples collected were younger plants found at lower elevations, covered up by ice for about the last 3,000 to 4,000 years, Miller said. But those areas of ice were more dynamic and mobile, formed during a relatively recent 5,000-year period of cooling, when local summer temperatures dropped by about 2.7 degrees Celsius, according to the scientists’ research.

The fact that there was cooling in that period, http://www.colorado.edu/news/multimedia/little-ice-age" rel="nofollow - which included the Little Ice Age , makes the discovery of newly exposed plants that are at least 44,000 years old even more significant, Miller said. It means that the region’s heat-up occurred rapidly in the last century, and is likely to continue there at a similarly rapid pace, he said. Commonly used models of future warming are probably too conservative, he said. “The models are underestimating Arctic amplification,” he said.

Miller and his colleagues returned to Baffin Island this summer, and also began collecting and testing plants from Svalbard, Greenland and Iceland to see if they are of the same vintage.

Contact Yereth Rosen at mailto:yereth@alaskadispatch.com" rel="nofollow - yereth(at)alaskadispatch.com

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-------------
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: October 27 2013 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by Crying Out Loud Crying Out Loud wrote:

Elver, exactly what...are my so called expectations?
 
And you also said this: 
 
Originally posted by Crying Out Loud Crying Out Loud wrote:

  The world reminds me of a huge trash pit.
 
 
From your previous posts it would seem that your expectations are for perfect society because you abhor everything about our world as it is today.  Face the reality that we are in and make the most of it.  Your logon name of "crying out loud" speaks for itself.
 
By the way, I hate it when people speak of suicide as an answer to things.  Get on some medication if you have to and lighten up.


Posted By: Crying Out Loud
Date Posted: October 28 2013 at 6:55am

sé·ance

/ˈseɪɑns/ http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.html" rel="nofollow - Show Spelled [sey-ahns] http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.html" rel="nofollow - Show IPA
noun
1.
a meeting in http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/which" rel="nofollow - a spiritualist attempts to communicate with the spirits of the dead.
2.
a session or sitting, as of a class or http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/organization" rel="nofollow - .
 
Pertaining to the high fever pitch, producing radical climate change. The time is now to use the buzzing fever planes. Drop low and smother this heated sickness with powdered aspirin. Then grab your gun, hold it close, like you would a long lost love, and happily go to sleep. Hold a seance, and contact Dr. Jesus in the Morning. Don't worry...be happy!Smile


Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: October 29 2013 at 7:52pm
Sarcasm - sär-secondarystresskaz-schwam
a remark made usually to hurt someone's feelings or show scorn.
 
a cutting remark used in scathing replies.

A form of wit that that is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.


Posted By: Crying Out Loud
Date Posted: October 30 2013 at 9:21am

You ask why inhuemans "need" a pandemic. The following message will help clarify the justified reason.

 
 

1. This age of perversion, glorifies the criminal's soul

For a Mafioso's delight, is a family with holes.

The truth is discarded; their political gaming is bold,

All hearts are broken, as the helpless and innocent,

Are brutally enslaved....bundled and sold.

 

2. For the taxmen, an unjust bounty,

Crooked justice and judgment demands fees...

What is left? Priest craft, terror, poverty and disease.

No aid for the down trod, no regard for the saint,

A wronged prisoner's rest, is now, death's dying faint.

 

3. The stages were set, the scenes open wide,

Hypnotic suggestion, a purse filled with false pride.

Now the fools (militant psychological testers)

And their prisoners (subjects), will forever be parted,

For the tests, old and new, were not to be started.

 

4. Their engineers developed the tests for the process,

To keep us conformed, through their mind reaching access.

They watched us contained, like a dog in their cage,

To punish, or reward, when they got in a rage.

 

5. They asked us our age, gender, ethnicity and race,

In order to form a psychological test for our taste.

They justified their cruelty, then sneered at our pain.

As they followed their occultic demonic manuals,

Ordered to bless and support their criminal gain.

 

6. They would tell us a word, to connect with a thought,

In hope their perverted ideals, would be accepted and bought.

They lied and distorted the figures and facts,

For fraud, drugs, and death, must not leave any tracks.

 

7. They pretended they loved us; they looked like they cared,

Yet, love does not hurt, humiliate and scare.

They said, “You’re confused; you must now take your pill,

For no one believes the mentally ill."

 

8. Then they said that we're crazy, and doctors are wise,

Yet, we could see through their governments, a devil's disguise.

It is not a crime, to be sick in the head,

The crime is in the perversion, which made up our bed.

 

9. Then they told us we're stupid, we're deaf, and we're blind,

That it's good to be tested, and their cruelty, is kind.

Then they said that we're blessed... to live as we do,

"It could always be worse, don't be a fool."

 

10. Their transcripts and dramas, perverted with schemes,

Semetic (schematic) from berth, inaugurate immorality,

Shame, and exhibitionists themes.

Now the actors are lost, is their circus time show,

Their pay for performance, they exchanged for the mates of their soul.

 

11. Malfeasance the dragon, truth's sword shines no more,

The hay singing (hazing) needle, the blood on the floor.

The spinners, the weavers, a perverted story to sell,

A slip of the tongue, a waterless well.(no justice)

 

12. The threads of their fabrication plants,

Are now ripped through the seams, exposing signers of lies,

Satanic congregations, their fans, players and teams.

The therapists, contracts, the clients, the pain,

Experimental research, devised for criminal experiential gain.

 

13. The leaders of their groups, said, “It is all in good fun,"

Then, why weren't we laughing, when faced with your gun?

They starved us, and raped us, then laughed us to scorn,

Took videos of our nakedness, then they used us for porn.

 

14. The fires they started, the flames they have thrown,

Have not been forgotten, nor have our lost homes.

Our Mothers they tortured, our Fathers they beat,

As they claimed us for theirs, through their cults in the heat.

 

15. Our behavior they modified, to fit their cruel schemes,

Taking away our God given gifts, and destroying our dreams.

Our Wholly Spirits they damaged, broke and denied,

"Our cults have great power," they acknowledged with pride.

 

16. The time they blocked out to keep us in line,

Thinking for and educating ourselves, was a dangerous sign.

So they controlled where we lived, and what we would eat,

If we said one wrong word, we would end up in the street.

 

17. They chose what we would wear, and when we could sleep,

If we could care for our bodies, and which necessities keep.

They branded our illness, forced us with dangerous drugs,

Then gave shocks to our brains, with electrical plugs.

 

18. They said, "Do not question our ethics, it breaks the morale,

You know what will happen; we will place you in jail.

No one will miss you, no one will care,

To humble you further, your body, we will now publicly bare".

 

19. When we would not conform to their immorality code,

Filthy, dangerous, perverted ethics, and rules,

They taught us new lessons, in their specialized, debasing schools.

They locked us in cold, empty violent cells,

Then kept us so long with no one to tell.

 

20. We pleaded for mercy, for a blanket, a stool,

We were told, “Your toilet is now a hole in the floor,

By special law, and decree, this is our judicial rule".

They gave us no water for drinking, no soap with to wash,

Their cruel brutal comments,

Crushed our sacred emotions, our identity?...Lost..

 

21. The caves of our minds are not meat for their dining pleasure,

Or for stirring up gold dust looking for treasure.

We pleaded; we begged them, to stop from the start,

Now, what they said has been done, and now we must part.

 

22. We were not to be used for experiments and pain,

No life belongs to another, for booty, and criminal gain.

Because they have taught us to hate, fear, and condemn,

Their travels with us must now be brought to an end.

 

23. We hope they are learning, that it is not very wise,

To raise up corruption and to fabricate lies.

It is always foolish to punish a true saint,

Giving any opening, or reward to an obvious barbaric sinner,

Every child of right knows this truth, as a basic beginner.

 

24. For God is always good, and devils are not,

It is unlucky for them, that they chose the demons' dark plot.

For the role of any devil, his advocates and throne,

Are simply, these inhuman imposters, whose unrighteous authority,

Immorality, and lawlessness, have never, ever, been condoned.

 

25. As this chapter of their unjust lifestyle now comes to an end,

Their pay for their criminal performance is theirs now to spend.

As they humbly unwrap their unfortunate gifts, and rewards,

They are coming to realize, that to resurrect evil,

Is to bring down upon themselves... God's Justified Sword.

 

26. While they are returned to life's desert

And they are searching in vain,

For the mercy they will crave,

As they re-enter, in their own chosen type of reign,

Once again they will pray, for an angel to dwell,

Alive in their presence, so they can get well.

 

27. Yet how can we trust them, their words are in vain,

Our memories are so burdened with their cruelty, and pain.

Someday, if they study, and work hard, as we do,

They will find, that these Criminal Governments,

Have no love in their hearts for me, them...or you.



Posted By: DANNYKELLEY
Date Posted: October 30 2013 at 12:07pm
Can not see a damn thing!

-------------
WHAT TO DO????


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: November 02 2013 at 2:28pm

Climate Change Seen Posing Risk to Food Supplies

Josh Haner/The New York Times

A United Nations panel of scientists says that globally, rising temperatures will make it harder for crops to thrive.

By http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/g/justin_gillis/index.html" rel="nofollow - Published: November 1, 2013 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/02/science/earth/science-panel-warns-of-risks-to-food-supply-from-climate-change.html?_r=0#commentsContainer" rel="nofollow - 589 Comments
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Climate change will pose sharp risks to the world’s food supply in coming decades, potentially undermining crop production and driving up prices at a time when the demand for food is expected to soar, scientists have found.

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In a departure from an earlier assessment, the scientists concluded that rising temperatures will have some beneficial effects on crops in some places, but that globally they will make it harder for crops to thrive — perhaps reducing production over all by as much as 2 percent each decade for the rest of this century, compared with what it would be without climate change.

And, the scientists say, they are already seeing the harmful effects in some regions.

The warnings come in a leaked draft of a report under development by a United Nations panel, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. The document is not final and could change before it is released in March.

The report also finds other sweeping impacts from climate change already occurring across the planet, and warns that these are likely to intensify as human emissions of greenhouse gases continue to rise. The scientists describe a natural world in turmoil as plants and animals colonize new areas to escape rising temperatures, and warn that many could become extinct.

The warning on the food supply is the sharpest in tone the panel has issued. Its previous report, in 2007, was more hopeful. While it did warn of risks and potential losses in output, particularly in the tropics, that report found that gains in production at higher latitudes would most likely offset the losses and ensure an adequate global supply.

The new tone reflects a large body of research in recent years that has shown how http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/05/science/earth/05harvest.html?pagewanted=all" rel="nofollow - sensitive crops appear to be to heat waves. The recent work also challenges previous assumptions about how much food production could increase in coming decades because of higher carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere. The gas, though it is the main reason for global warming, also acts as a kind of fertilizer for plants.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is the principal scientific body charged with reviewing and assessing climate science, then issuing reports about the risks to the world’s governments. Its main reports come out every five to six years. The group http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/13/world/13nobel.html" rel="nofollow - won the Nobel Peace Prize , along with Al Gore, in 2007 for its efforts.

Hundreds of billions of dollars are being spent every year to reduce emissions in response to past findings from the group, though many analysts have said these efforts are so far inadequate to head off drastic climatic changes later in the century.

On the food supply, the new report finds that benefits from global warming may be seen in some areas, like northern lands that are now marginal for food production. But it adds that over all, global warming could reduce agricultural production by as much as 2 percent each decade for the rest of this century.

During that period, demand is expected to rise as much as 14 percent each decade, the report found, as the world population is projected to grow to 9.6 billion in 2050, from 7.2 billion today, according to the United Nations, and as many of those people in developing countries acquire the money to eat richer diets.

Any shortfall would lead to rising food prices that would hit the world’s poor hardest, as has already occurred from price increases of recent years. Research has found that climate change, particularly severe heat waves, was a factor in those price spikes.

The agricultural risks “are greatest for tropical countries, given projected impacts that exceed adaptive capacity and higher poverty rates compared with temperate regions,” the draft report finds.

If the report proves to be correct about the effect on crops from climate change, global food demand might have to be met — if it can be met — by putting new land into production. That could entail chopping down large areas of forest, an action that would only accelerate climate change by sending substantial amounts of carbon dioxide into the air from the destruction of trees.

The report finds that efforts to adapt to climate change have already begun in many countries. President Obama signed an http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/01/science/earth/white-house-will-focus-on-climate-shifts-while-trying-to-cut-greenhouse-gases.html" rel="nofollow - executive order on Friday to step up such efforts in the United States. But these efforts remain inadequate compared with the risks, the report says, and far more intensive — and expensive — adaptation plans are likely to be required in the future.

The document also finds that it is not too late for cuts in emissions to have a strong impact on the future risks of climate change, though the costs would be incurred in the next few decades and the main benefits would probably be seen in the late 21st century and beyond.

The leak of the new draft occurred on a http://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2013/11/01/new-ipcc-leak-working-group-2s-summary-for-policymakers/" rel="nofollow - blog hostile to the intergovernmental panel. In a brief interview, a spokesman for the panel, Jonathan Lynn, did not dispute the authenticity of the document.

“It’s a work in progress,” Mr. Lynn said. “It’s likely to change.”

Several scientists involved in drafting the document declined on Friday to speak publicly about it. In the Internet era, the group’s efforts to keep its drafts secret are proving to be a failure, and some of the scientists involved have called for a drafting process open to the public.

A report about the physical science of climate change leaked in August, then underwent only modest changes before its http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/28/science/global-climate-change-report.html" rel="nofollow - final release in Stockholm in late September. The new report covers the impact of climate change, efforts to adapt to it, and the vulnerability of human and natural systems.

A third report, analyzing potential ways to limit the rise of greenhouse gases, is due for release in Berlin in April.

A version of this article appears in print on November 2, 2013, on page A1 of the New York edition with the headline: Climate Change Seen Posing Risk to Food Supplies.



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-------------
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: November 02 2013 at 2:38pm
an we have some debate on the subject please ,

or is reality to hard for you to swallow????


some  here seem not be in my reality ??......


 are there are to many people on the Planet,


-------------
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: November 02 2013 at 2:43pm
And the UN estimates the population by mid century will require us to increase food production by an additional 70%... Ermm


-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: November 02 2013 at 2:43pm

Fox Responds To New Obama Climate Action With Global Warming Denial

http://mediamatters.org/blog" rel="nofollow - 5 hours and 41 minutes ago ››› MATT GERTZ
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/11/02/fox-responds-to-new-obama-climate-action-with-g/196721#disqus_thread" rel="nofollow - 248
http://mediamatters.org/print/blog/2013/11/02/fox-responds-to-new-obama-climate-action-with-g/196721" rel="nofollow">Print

Fox News attacked President Obama's decision to sign an executive order that will make it easier for states and communities to prepare for impacts of climate change by denying the existence of global warming.

On November 1, Obama signed an http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/11/01/executive-order-preparing-united-states-impacts-climate-change" rel="nofollow - executive order on climate preparedness. The New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/01/science/earth/white-house-will-focus-on-climate-shifts-while-trying-to-cut-greenhouse-gases.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1383401028-JU6h+jtZB9Dt2VlGYMXmVQ" rel="nofollow - reported that the order will "make it easier for states and communities to build resilience against storms, droughts and other weather extremes" and establish "a high-level task force of state and local leaders to offer advice to the federal government" on how to help local communities deal with climate change.

Reporting on the executive order during the November 2 edition of Fox & Friends Saturday, co-host Tucker Carlson denied the existence of global warming. He said that "temperatures have not risen in the past several years, they have gone down," and claimed there is "an emerging scientific consensus that we may be in for a period of global cooling caused not by greenhouse gases but by fluctuations in solar energy -- sun spots."

Carlson concluded that those calling for action in response to climate change "what they don't know definitively is the truth. And no one wants to admit -- maybe there's some things they don't fully understand. Why not just admit that?"

Contrary to Carlson's claim that an "emerging scientific consensus" predicts an upcoming period of global cooling, http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus" rel="nofollow - 97 percent of climate scientists and most leading U.S. scientific societies agree that a climate-warming trend has existed over the last century and that the trend is "very likely due to human activities."  In September, the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which convenes  http://www.ipcc.ch/" rel="nofollow - hundreds  of top climate experts from around the world to assess the scientific understanding of climate change, http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/10/10/study-media-sowed-doubt-in-coverage-of-un-clima/196387" rel="nofollow - released a report concluding that "warming of the climate system is unequivocal" and will continue under all greenhouse gas emissions scenarios.

While climate scientists overwhelmingly believe the Earth is warming, Fox News has http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2013/10/climate-denial-fox-media-matters" rel="nofollow - relentlessly https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CD8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmediamatters.org%2Fblog%2F2010%2F12%2F15%2Ffoxleaks-fox-boss-ordered-staff-to-cast-doubt-o%2F174317&ei=NhJ1UrLSHfTNsQTP5YCgBA&usg=AFQjCNEerKmvJR3dGbYIYyIu3Ket-uS8MQ&sig2=nmOe8PHYGCciBNQGZ0y0kQ&bvm=bv.55819444,d.cWc" rel="nofollow - championed climate change denial. This coverage has a http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2013/aug/08/global-warming-denial-fox-news" rel="nofollow - real impact on the network's conservative viewers - while two-thirds of Americans believe in global warming, only http://www.people-press.org/2013/11/01/gop-deeply-divided-over-climate-change/" rel="nofollow - 25 percent of Tea Party Republicans agree.

The IPCC has also addressed the short-term trend that Carlson refers to when he says that "temperatures have not risen in the past several years, they have gone down." http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/10/10/study-media-sowed-doubt-in-coverage-of-un-clima/196387" rel="nofollow - According to the IPCC , such trends are due to natural variability and do "not in general reflect long-term climate trends." The IPCC finds it more significant that "[e]ach of the last three decades has been successively warmer at the Earth's surface than any preceding decade since 1850," and predicts temperatures will keep rising in the long run.

A chart published previously by http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=47" rel="nofollow - Skeptical Science illustrates how a short-term trend can be cherry picked from the longer warming signal:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=47" rel="nofollow">

< id="short-">
< id="short--" value=" http://mm4a.org/1hClGeu">

-------------
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: November 05 2013 at 2:14am
http://www.endabuse.org">

http://www.smh.com.au - The Sydney Morning Herald

http://www.smh.com.au/environment - Environment

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  • http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/climate-pioneers-see-little-chance-of-avoiding-dangerous-global-warming-20131105-2wyon.html# - Environment

Climate pioneers see little chance of avoiding dangerous global warming

Date

Climate

The sun is setting on efforts to curb carbon emissions in time to avoid significant climate disruption. Photo: Reuters

The only three living diplomats who have led the United Nations global warming talks said there's little chance the next climate treaty will prevent the world from overheating.

The specific goal, to hold temperature increases to 2 degrees Celsius, was endorsed by envoys from 190 nations in 2010. It's considered the maximum the environment can bear before climate change becomes more dangerous. Delegates to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change meet in Warsaw starting Nov. 11 to work on a treaty that could be agreed to in 2015.

The comments from the current and former executive secretaries to the UNFCCC add to the urgency of the Warsaw talks. Humans already have emitted more than half the greenhouse gases needed to surpass the 2-degree target, a panel of scientists brought together by the UN concluded in September.

The World Bank last year said the planet is on track to warm by 4 degrees this century, a level that would raise the seas, worsen droughts and make storms more violent.

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“There is nothing that can be agreed in 2015 that would be consistent with the 2 degrees,” said Yvo de Boer, who was UNFCCC executive secretary in 2009, when attempts to reach a deal at a summit in Copenhagen crumbled with a rift between industrialised and developing nations. “The only way that a 2015 agreement can achieve a 2-degree goal is to shut down the whole global economy.”

Treaty talks

The Warsaw meeting will continue work toward a treaty limiting carbon dioxide emissions in all nations. The aim is to complete the text in 2015 and for targets to take effect in 2020. Even the current diplomat managing the process says success will require further steps beyond the treaty.

“I don't think even a 2015 agreement is going to all of a sudden overnight result in a 2-degree pathway,” Christiana Figueres, the current UNFCCC executive secretary, told reporters last month in London. “There is no agreement that is a miracle.”

Figueres, 57, who succeeded de Boer, 59, in 2010, said then that she doubted a final agreement on climate change will happen in her lifetime. At the London conference, she said a 2015 treaty must “very visibly and palpably affect the trajectory of emissions,” bringing them to a peak this decade, before declining to zero net emissions after 2050.

The challenge faced by policy makers worldwide is to reverse the rising output of greenhouse gases without hindering economic development.

tonnes of carbon

The UN Environment Program said last year that under existing policies, annual carbon emissions are on pace to reach 58 gigatonnes (58 billion tonnes) in 2020, up from 50 gigatonnes in 2010. More than 50 nations have made pledges that would reduce the 2020 level to 52 gigatonnes. To remain on track to limit warming to 2 degrees, emissions in 2020 can't exceed 44 gigatonnes, UNEP said.

“The economic realities, the energy security realities, the poverty eradication realities, the access to energy realities are such that the main thing is to get as many countries as possible to make as bold a next step as they can without feeling threatened,” de Boer, now a special adviser on climate change to the accounting firm KPMG LLP, said from Seoul. “By definition a 2015 outcome, even a brilliant one, must be inadequate, and it will lead to severe impacts.”

'Inertia'

Those comments reflect “the inertia and the amount of effort it's taking to get this change,” Samantha Smith, who leads the climate program at the environmental group WWF, said in an interview. “If we're pinning all of our hopes on an agreement in 2015 that is going to get us under 2 degrees, then we've got the wrong approach.”

Some nations are pushing for a lower temperature target. The 44-member Alliance of Small Island States and the 49-country bloc of Least Developed Countries say a 1.5-degree cap is needed to protect low-lying regions from the rising sea levels and more intense storms caused by climate change.

“My hunch is that we won't be there in 2015, but we'll hopefully take a big step toward being there,” Michael Zammit Cutajar, the first UNFCCC executive secretary, said in an interview from St. Julian's, Malta. Some commentaries conclude that humans should aim for 2 degrees and prepare for 4, “which is quite a sensible suggestion,” he said.

Zammit Cutajar, 72, set up the UNFCCC secretariat in 1991, a year before the convention was adopted at the Rio Earth Summit. He was succeeded in 2002 by Joke Waller-Hunter, who died in office in 2005.

Figueres's view

Figueres said work done outside the formal UNFCCC talks will complement a treaty. Those include bilateral efforts by the U.S. and China, the two largest emitters, to develop carbon capture and storage technology, reduce emissions of the potent global warming gases hydrofluorocarbons and increase the energy- efficiency of buildings and cities.

“An international agreement is by no means the whole answer,” U.S. lead climate envoy Todd Stern said in an Oct. 22 speech at the London climate conference. “The most important drivers of climate action are countries acting at home.”

The falling price of renewable energy may accelerate the shift away from fossil fuels and curb emissions, said former U.S. Vice President Al Gore.

Fossil threashold

“The difference between renewable energy at prices above that of fossil fuels compared to renewable energy at prices below that of fossil fuels is a threshold” similar to the melting point of ice, Gore said Oct. 17 in a phone interview. “Growth in production and deployment is going to accelerate as the price continues to go down.”

To meet the 2-degree target, about two-thirds of proven fossil-fuel reserves must remain in the ground, mostly coal, according to the Paris-based International Energy Agency.

“There is much more carbon underground than the amount which can still be released if dangerous climate change should be avoided,” Ottmar Edenhofer, chief economist at Germany's Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, said in an interview. “The challenge is that we have to provide the right incentives to the users of coal, oil and gas to leave a remarkable amount of these fossil fuels underground.”

Under the IEA's central forecast, about half of reserves will remain untapped, putting the planet on track to warm by 3.6 degrees, its chief economist, Fatih Birol, said.

“Paris 2015 is perhaps the last chance before we say that the 2-degree target will be almost impossible to reach,” Birol said in a phone interview. “If we have an agreement in Paris we can still theoretically have a chance to change the path.”


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/climate-pioneers-see-little-chance-of-avoiding-dangerous-global-warming-20131105-2wyon.html#ixzz2jlTiyFTi - http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/climate-pioneers-see-little-chance-of-avoiding-dangerous-global-warming-20131105-2wyon.html#ixzz2jlTiyFTi

-------------
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: November 06 2013 at 1:39pm

Concentrations of warming gases break record

Matt McGrath By Matt McGrath Environment correspondent, BBC News
Oil refinery The WMO says that fossil fuel activities such as oil refining are driving atmospheric levels of CO2 to record highs
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24833148#story_continues_1 - Continue reading the main story

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The levels of gases in the atmosphere that drive global warming increased to a record high in 2012.

According to the World Meteorological Organization (WMO), atmospheric CO2 grew more rapidly last year than its average rise over the past decade.

Concentrations of methane and nitrous oxide also broke previous records

Thanks to carbon dioxide and these other gases, the WMO says the warming effect on our climate has increased by almost a third since 1990.

The WMO's annual greenhouse gas bulletin measures concentrations in the atmosphere, not emissions on the ground.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24833148#story_continues_2 - Continue reading the main story

Start Quote

The laws of physics and chemistry are not negotiable”

Michel Jarraud World Meteorological Organization

Carbon dioxide is the most important of the gases that they track, but only about half of the CO2 that's emitted by human activities remains in the atmosphere, with the rest being absorbed by the plants, trees, the land and the oceans.

Upsetting the balance

Since 1750, global average levels of CO2 in the atmosphere have increased to 141% of the pre-industrial concentration of 278 parts per million (ppm).

According to the WMO there were 393.1ppm of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere in 2012, an increase of 2.2ppm over 2011.

This was above the yearly average of 2.02ppm over the past decade.

"The observations highlight yet again how heat-trapping gases from human activities have upset the natural balance of our atmosphere and are a major contribution to climate change," said WMO Secretary-General Michel Jarraud.

"It is a worry. The more we delay action the bigger the risk we cannot stay under the 2 degree Celsius limit that countries have agreed," he said.

While the http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22486153 - daily measurement of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere exceeded the symbolic 400ppm mark in May this year, according to the WMO the global annual average CO2 concentration will cross this point in 2015 or 2016.

Levels of methane also reached record highs in 2012 of 1,819 parts per billion. Concentrations have been increasing since 2007 after a period when they appeared to be levelling off.

methane flare Methane concentrations from landfill sites and many other sources including farming have risen again

The WMO report says that it is not yet possible to attribute the methane increase to either human activities like cattle breeding and landfills or natural sources such as wetlands.

They believe that the rising emissions come from the tropical and mid-latitude northern hemisphere and not from the Arctic, where methane from the melting of permafrost and hydrates has long been a concern.

Emissions of nitrous oxide have also grown, with the atmospheric concentration in 2012 at 325.1 parts per billion, 120% above pre-industrial levels.

Nitrous oxide gas, although its concentrations are tiny compared to CO2, is 298 times more warming and also plays a role in the destruction of the ozone layer.

Recent research indicates that http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24742770 - the rate of increase in emissions might be slowing down , but the gases can continue to concentrate in the atmosphere and exert a climate influence for hundreds if not thousands of years.

Scientists believe that the new data indicates that global warming will be back with a vengeance, after http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22567023 - a slowdown in the rate of temperature increases over the past 14 years.

"The laws of physics and chemistry are not negotiable," said Michel Jarraud.

"Greenhouse gases are what they are, the laws of physics show they can only contribute to warming the system, but parts of this heat may go in different places like the oceans for some periods of time," he said.

This view was echoed by Prof Piers Forster from the University of Leeds.

"For the past decade or so the oceans have been sucking up this extra heat, meaning that surface temperatures have only increased slowly.

"Don't expect this state of affairs to continue though, the extra heat will eventually come out and bite us, so expect strong warming over the coming decades."

Follow Matt http://twitter.com/mattmcgrathbbc - on Twitter .

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Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: December 06 2013 at 1:35pm

Analyst paints terrifying picture of global warming future

Eleanor Hall reported this story on http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/archives.html - Tuesday, December 3, 2013 12:26:00

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/news/audio/twt/201312/20131203-twt05-christoff.mp3 - Listen to MP3 of this story ( minutes)

Alternate mms://media4.abc.net.au/winlibrary/audio/twt/201312/20131203-twt05-christoff.wma - WMA version | http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/news/audio/twt/201312/20131203-twt05-christoff.mp3 - MP3 download

ELEANOR HALL: While the Federal Government focuses its climate policy energies on repealing the carbon tax, a book published today paints a terrifying picture of a world that's four degrees warmer and recommends a dramatic increase in Australia's carbon reduction target.*

The book's editor is Associate Professor of Environmental Policy at Melbourne University, Dr Peter Christoff.*

He says he will meet Australian politicians from all parties to stress the urgency of the problem.

He joined me from Melbourne this morning.

Professor Christoff, what do you say to those who say it's simply alarmist to be talking about four degrees of global warming, twice the level that world leaders have identified as dangerous, and are working to keep below.

PETER CHRISTOFF: Well, two years ago or four years ago, it would have been regarded as science fiction to think about a world heading in that direction. But frankly, given the pace of negotiations and the projections that are being made on current levels of emissions and also projected changes to those emissions, four degrees is pretty much about the centre figure that is being projected by the IPCC, the scientific body looking at climate change.

So four degrees unfortunately is now a very realistic prospect by the end of this century.

ELEANOR HALL: You say we should use the best available evidence. What does it tell us about the earliest possible date we'd be looking at a four degree warmer world?

PETER CHRISTOFF: Well a great deal depends on the rate at which emissions either increase or decline. If those emissions increase, then we're looking at four degrees being perhaps as early as 2070. If they decline, but not sufficiently, then we're looking at around the end of this century.

Of course that doesn't mean that that's when the warming stops. Warming would continue to occur for some time, for some centuries after that. But at this stage that's the projection that we're looking at.

ELEANOR HALL: The planet has warmed only about 0.8 of a degree since the industrial revolution. The latest IPCC report shows the pace of warming has actually stabilised in recent years. Isn't this just too extreme an analysis to be taken seriously?

PETER CHRISTOFF: Look, the stabilisation that has occurred at the moment is regarded by most climate scientists as temporary. These sort of projections that we are now looking at the moment are not alarmist at all. I think they're actually probably conservative under the circumstances. They don't factor in a number of other feedbacks which may occur as warming continues and as we move past certain tipping points.

ELEANOR HALL: So if this four degrees of warming or worse were to take place, which parts of the globe, which populations, would be most at risk?

PETER CHRISTOFF: You'd probably have to say that most parts of the globe would be at risk. That's four degrees of average warming, but there would be warming that is in excess of that as you move towards the polar regions in both hemispheres.

You've got to say that Australia as a country which has always had a fairly fragile environment, would be one of the continents and one of the countries most at risk. Certainly it's the most vulnerable of the industrialised countries.

But then you have continents like the Indian subcontinent and also China, which are very vulnerable because of their large populations who are extremely susceptible to changes in drought and therefore in food availability.

ELEANOR HALL: What is the most frightening aspect for you of a four degree warmer world?

PETER CHRISTOFF: Oh look, that's a terrible question to which one only has to give a terrible answer. There are a set of compounding problems that emerge when you start moving towards four degrees. You start to see a world in which there are substantial extinctions.

The oceans have become warmer, are becoming more acidic. So there's a very significant chance of the collapse of significant marine ecosystems like coral reefs, the Great Barrier Reef, for example, is probably doomed when you get to four degrees. There are very substantial problems with food availability planet-wide and in a country like Australia which used to be capable of producing a surplus of food, by four degrees, would probably be facing food security problems with a larger population, but also a hungrier population.

And then you have the issues of extreme weather events, floods, more intense storms, bushfires, all these things particularly in the Australian context, I think leave us with a shatteringly different sense of what Australian can and would be like.

ELEANOR HALL: The physical effects are one part of this. What could the changes in the resource availability then mean for security? Will it inevitably mean more wars?

PETER CHRISTOFF: The projections are at four degrees that you would have significant displacement of population. If you have mass hunger occurring, populations will move to try and find food. Most of those movements, and the projections go from 65 to 250 million people by the end of this century. Most of those movements are likely to occur with countries, but there would be also the prospect of people moving over their borders and looking for resources elsewhere.

And how the world begins to handle a problem of that magnitude I think is something that we can only begin to contemplate. One doesn't know whether it would lead to more conflict. It certainly would lead to problems. I don't think we can understand what a world that looks like the one that's being projected looks like or how we're going to react to it. It's beyond human experience.

ELEANOR HALL: This sounds like a doomsday scenario. Could humans adapt to a four degree warming of the planet?

PETER CHRISTOFF: Well, humans are an extraordinarily adaptable species but if you're looking at a population of seven billion people trying to adapt to a world in which there's less water and less food, one would have to say that the prospects for an adaptation that would leave life looking roughly like it does for many people at this point in time is virtually impossible.

So there are already billions of people living in poverty or in water-stressed and food-stressed circumstances. In a four degree world, their situation would only get extremely worse. And even in extremely wealthy countries like Australia, adaptation I think would be very, very difficult to countenance.

There would clearly be some form of adaptation, but it wouldn't be life as we understand it at this point in time.

ELEANOR HALL: You say that Australia could be one of the most vulnerable continents. Where do you expect to see the worst effects in Australia of a four degree warmer world?

PETER CHRISTOFF: There will be the extinctions of species. There'll be a very substantial impact on agricultural productivity. So the issues of food availability will change. We probably have the wealth and the resources to begin to deal with some of the issues of water availability and desalinisation plants and so on. Everyday life will be very substantially different. There are projections for example of what would happen to just average temperatures over time. So in Melbourne for example, we have something like nine or ten days over 35 degrees at the moment. By the time you get to 2070, that's about 26 days.

When you're looking at Alice Springs, the temperatures are 90 days over 35 degrees now, 180 by 2070. And then you get to places like Darwin, which would move from 11 days to 308. You end up with parts of Australia which are virtually unliveable. And the projections are for example, that while Alice Springs would resemble the Sudan, Darwin will resemble like no place on earth.

ELEANOR HALL: What action would you like to see from policy makers as a result of your book?*

PETER CHRISTOFF: The clearest thing that this report suggests is that our current settings, current targets, and our current policies are inadequate. So Australia's committed to reducing its emissions by five degrees. We need to look at a much more substantial target, around 35-40, even 45 per cent below 2000 levels by 2020.

ELEANOR HALL: To go from 5 per cent to 45 though, that's a massive increase. Do you really expect the current government to take something like that seriously?

PETER CHRISTOFF: Well clearly there's a huge gap between our current political settings and what the science is suggesting we need to do. But at the end of the day if you look at the economic, the social and environmental outcomes, there has to be a bit of a reality check and I think that nature is going to give us that.

ELEANOR HALL: A 45 per cent reduction, what would be the cost of bringing that about. I mean, British economist Nicholas Stern's analysis that it would cost 1 per cent of GDP globally is now well out of date, isn't it?

PETER CHRISTOFF: It is out of date. But it's not that far off what one could still expect at this point in time. We're talking about billions of dollars. But in terms of the amount of money that is currently spent within the budget on education or defence and so on, it certainly wouldn't be a dramatic tension for the budget to be reoriented towards dealing with this problem.

ELEANOR HALL: Peter Christoff, as we've been going through this conversation you're reeling off statistics that really are quite extraordinary. How worried are you that we could actually reach four degrees of warming?

PETER CHRISTOFF: Extremely worried. We haven't seen the sort of focus and we haven't seen the sort of effort that's required to avoid exceeding two degrees in international negotiations, nor in Australia for some time. And I think that under the circumstances, unless there is a change, I think that the likelihood is that we will head towards four degrees, or more precisely that in 10 or 20 years time we'll start to panic and start to really begin to move very, very quickly to reduce emissions. But under those circumstances it will much more expensive and probably much less effective set of policies that we put in place.

ELEANOR HALL: Professor Christoff, thanks very much for joining us.

PETER CHRISTOFF: Thanks Eleanor.

ELEANOR HALL: That's Melbourne University's Dr Peter Christoff. He's the editor of; Four Degrees of Global Warming: Australia in a Hot World.*

EDITOR’S NOTE: (5 December 2013): The original broadcast incorrectly identified the publication Four Degrees of Global Warming: Australia in a Hot World as a report. The transcript has been amended.

Extra Audio

  • http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/news/audio/twt/201312/peter-christoff-11-28.mp3 - Full interview with Dr Peter Christoff
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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