2nd person in U.S. tests positive for Ebola
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Printed Date: April 26 2024 at 5:48pm
Topic: 2nd person in U.S. tests positive for Ebola
Posted By: Schrödinger's Cat
Subject: 2nd person in U.S. tests positive for Ebola
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 3:08am
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2nd person in U.S. tests positive for Ebola CNN) - A health care worker at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital has tested positive for Ebola after a preliminary test, the state's health agency said in a statement. Confirmatory testing will be conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. The employee helped care for Thomas Eric Duncan, the first person diagnosed with Ebola in the United States. Duncan died on Wednesday. www.cnn.com/2014/10/12/health/ebola/index.html |
Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 3:14am
Thanks. . I was just going to post that.. 
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Posted By: Schrödinger's Cat
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 3:27am
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The originating press release: https://www.dshs.state.tx.us/news/releases/20141012.aspx .....a little more info about the 2nd patient. Texas Patient Tests Positive for Ebola News Release A health care worker at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital who provided care for the Ebola patient hospitalized there has tested positive for Ebola in a preliminary test at the state public health laboratory in Austin. Confirmatory testing will be conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. The health care worker reported a low grade fever Friday night and was isolated and referred for testing. The preliminary test result was received late Saturday. "We knew a second case could be a reality, and we've been preparing for this possibility," said Dr. David Lakey, commissioner of the Texas Department of State Health Services. "We are broadening our team in Dallas and working with extreme diligence to prevent further spread." Health officials have interviewed the patient and are identifying any contacts or potential exposures. People who had contact with the health care worker after symptoms emerged will be monitored based on the nature of their interactions and the potential they were exposed to the virus. Ebola is spread through direct contact with bodily fluids of a sick person or exposure to contaminated objects such as needles. People are not contagious before symptoms such as fever develop. |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 3:28am
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We all knew a healthcare worker would be very likely. There will probably be a couple more. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 3:31am
| Yes A, I'm expecting more. . |
Posted By: pheasant
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 3:35am
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Funny they didn't announce the quarantine Friday, just the positive hit this am. ------------- The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 3:43am
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I somewhat thought they wouldn't announce a "suspected" case, and that they would announce a positive case instead. Save a couple more days in panic and scrutiny, Whenever possible, it's also ideal to announce this types of bad news on a Sunday. Lovely. Duncan's girlfriend and Jesse Jackson are suing the healthcare workers, after Duncan also gave them Ebola. A rough couple weeks for those healthcare workers on the duncan transmission chain. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: Schrödinger's Cat
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 3:48am
| Agree, Albert, it'll be a rough couple of weeks for the staff. I wonder if this 2nd patient was from Duncan's first or second hospital visit? |
Posted By: pheasant
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 3:53am
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There having a press conference at 7:30 AM CST, they should be better organized this time as they have had 30+_ hours to prepare the message. ------------- The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 3:54am
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You would think from the first visit, but it could go either way. He was placed in immediate isolation on 2nd visit. Although they were probably still not equipped for it so there could be cases from each visit, you would think anyway. Also haven't heard any news about Duncan's girlfriend's health lately. Wonder if a couple more are starting to show flu like symptoms. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 3:55am
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Pheasant - I agree. don't be surprised if they mention another suspected case. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: pheasant
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 4:03am
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I promise i am not wearing my tin-foil hat right now, but i would bet a cup of coffee the girlfriend and kids are in Atlanta, or going to be brought there. First to lighten the load on the Dallas hospital, and second, to help take the media spotlight off the Dallas hospital. Its what i would do. Besides, is Presbyterian really equipped to handle 3-5 cases at once? ------------- The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 4:17am
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Good point. I was thinking of the irony of the gf and the healthcare workers all being treated together.who knows how large this cluster will be. I'm assuming there will be at least 2 - 3 health workers and possiblly a family member of theirs. No way is that one center equipped. Possibly make a quarantine treatment facility like in w Africa for this cluster, although those might not work well as we've seen. Jesse Jackson can be first in line for visiting gf. They may announce another suspected case this morning. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: Phylica1
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 5:24am
| Wonder if Jesse Jackson took precautions while visiting the family. I am surprised that the family hasn't showed any fever. Could they have been careful when dealing with Duncan. Was Jesse Jackson wearing protective girl around the girlfriend ? I don't recall the health care workers being placed in isolation after they confirmed Duncan testing positive? |
Posted By: Phylica1
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 6:04am
| Now, the second patient was wearing full face shield and CDC guidelines . This is scary. |
Posted By: Satori
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 6:21am
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can you provide a link confirming that info ? |
Phylica1 wrote:Posted By: Hazelpad
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 6:22am
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CNN identify her as a female nurse, low risk, was in self monitoring pool. Hospital have closed A&E. http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/12/health/ebola/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 |
Posted By: pheasant
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 6:22am
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Anyone else see the presser? All i can say is.....chilling. Those people were scared, am i off base or did you all get the same impression? ------------- The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR |
Posted By: ParanoidMom
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 6:26am
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CNN is reporting the nurse was in full protective gear. A few lines down it explains how difficult it is to actually catch this virus. This is beyond frustrating! ------------- But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of the Lord Wisdom of Solomon 3:1 |
Posted By: Phylica1
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 6:35am
| Can you feel confident that hazmat can clean areas. Is anyone testing surfaces to check for ebola after cleaning an area? Probably not!!! The name should be released of the ebola victim . Soon, they will just stop announcing the patients. Something has officials scared at the Dallas hospital. |
Posted By: Hazelpad
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 6:40am
| That's the impression I get at press conference. It was like they were waiting to deliver a bomb shell, which they did....after the officials had left when the last doctor on the podium blurted out about the nurse wearing full protective gear as recommended by CDC...,.they hit the public with that statement and scampered off stage.. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 7:01am
| I did read that the nurse was caring for Duncan at his second hospital visit. Sorry, it was a couple hours ago and i have no link to share. |
Posted By: Phylica1
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 7:03am
| It drives me crazy even how the news stations state that is was probably because they touched something while taking off the suit. Well , I can tell you if I was taking off a suit and knowing I was dealing with ebola I would be so careful. I am sure if these person had full protective gear on then they would have been careful also. Dallas will now stop talking to prevent panic. Not sure we can handle more cases. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 7:03am
| I read it onlCNN |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 7:08am
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Looks like they might be putting another dog down soon, which is the pet of the new case. http://abcnews.go.com/ - Home > http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ - Health
Health Worker 2nd in US to Test Positive for EbolaDALLAS — Oct 12, 2014, 9:52 AM ET
By NOMAAN MERCHANT Associated Press
A Texas health care worker who was in full protective gear when they provided hospital care for an Ebola patient who later died has tested positive for the virus and is in stable condition, health officials said Sunday. If the preliminary diagnosis is confirmed, it would be the first known case of the disease being contracted or transmitted in the U.S. Dr. Daniel Varga, of the Texas Health Resources, said during a news conference Sunday that the worker wore a gown, gloves, mask and shield when they provided care to Thomas Eric Duncan during his second visit to Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital. Varga did not identify the worker and says the family of the worker has "requested total privacy." Varga says the health care worker reported a fever Friday night as part of a self-monitoring regimen required by the Atlanta-based Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. He said another person also remains in isolation, and the hospital has stopped accepting new emergency room patients. Duncan, the first person diagnosed with Ebola in the U.S., died Wednesday in Dallas. "We knew a second case could be a reality, and we've been preparing for this possibility," Dr. David Lakey, commissioner of the Texas Department of State Health Services, said in a statement Sunday. "We are broadening our team in Dallas and working with extreme diligence to prevent further spread." Health officials have interviewed the patient and are identifying any contacts or potential exposures. They said people who had contact with the health care worker after symptoms emerged will be monitored based on the nature of their interactions and the potential they were exposed to the virus. Officials said they also received information that there may be a pet in the health care worker's apartment, and they have a plan in place to care for the animal. They do not believe the pet has signs of having contracted Ebola. Dr. Tom Frieden, head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said the health care worker's Ebola diagnosis shows there was a clear breach of safety protocol. Frieden on Sunday told CBS' "Face the Nation" that all those who treated Duncan are now considered to be potentially exposed, though couldn't give an exact number. Health care workers treating Duncan were directed to follow CDC protocol that included wearing protective gear. Among the things CDC will investigate is how the workers took off that gear — because removing it incorrectly can lead to a contamination. Judge Clay Jenkins, Dallas County's top administrative official, said the unidentified health care worker is a "heroic" person who "was proud to provide care to Mr. Duncan." He said the health care worker's family has requested privacy because they are "going through a great ordeal." More than 4,000 people have died in the ongoing Ebola epidemic centered in West Africa, according to World Health Organization figures published Friday. Almost all of those deaths have been in the three worst-affected countries, Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/state-health-officials-2nd-ebola-case-texas-26135213------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: Hazelpad
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 7:16am
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They don't say what pet is, hopefully not one of those fashionable pet micro pigs........pigs being superspreaders. |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 7:26am
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Here comes PETA.... We love our pets in these parts. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: Hazelpad
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 7:43am
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In the statement from Dr. Dan Varga, Oct. 12, 7:30 a.m. CDT 10/12/2014 it was stated: The healthcare worker had been under the self-monitoring regimen prescribed by the CDC, based on involvement in caring for patient Thomas Eric Duncan during his inpatient care that started on September 28. So are they saying that the exposure could have occurred at any point during his inpatient stay, from admission to death ? Also says she was low risk ( self monitoring), does that mean she had minimal contact, or just by the fact you wear PPE does that class you as low rusk even if procedures you carry out may be invasive etc. They not making it very easy to understand. |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 7:54am
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We're going to have several more cases in this Duncan Transmission Chain and cluster. Interesting next few days coming up. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: nc_girl
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 7:55am
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what I don't get is why no one has asked if she worked in the hospital (not necessarily coming into contact with Duncan) on his 1st visit to get care. And if she worked in the days following his 1st visit. Since they didn't test him and didn't know he had it, it's possible that she was infected from touching a door knob, wheel chair, hand rail, etc that he touched. Or that the bathroom I'm sure he would have used while there (he was stooling), wasn't cleaned with the proper care or before someone else used it. Lots and lots of unknowns and unanswered questions here. I agree with the immediate assumption she got it from not taking off her suit properly during his 2nd visit but I don't think they have fully vetted the 1st visit yet. Dr Richard B on ABC News this morning flat out said the didn't think regular hospitals can care for ebola patients based on this new infection. He said they are obviously not prepared. Dr. Fauci didn't let him answer some of the reporters questions but you could tell that Dr. B has now 'turned' on his views on how easy/hard this is to catch. |
Posted By: onefluover
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:00am
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Is it me or do I see bushes growing around that hospital? ------------- "And then there were none." |
Posted By: Speed racer
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:02am
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Very sad but no surprise No way are the hospital nurses trained well enough in Biosafety Level 4 virus...take constant awareness and mistakes happen. That is why in the Biosafety Level 4 Laboratory there are always a person observing the other to make certain the protocol is not broken. What is next 
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:11am
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That's big news!!! Confirmed wearing CDC protective gear? The guy being interviewed was door stopped by the media. Even still this is still big news. Lets see if others come forward... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:13am
| It would be interesting to know if the Hospital is union. Probably not since Texas is a "right to work" state. Otherwise the union would be advising health care workers to stay home. One more thing, who is going to reimburse the apartment building owners for loss of income, and who in their right mind would ever rent those apartments again. And a final question, what country is manufacturing all the components of a full containment outfit, I certainly hope these items are not being made in China. |
Posted By: wenmalon
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:19am
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It's too bad that all hospitals can't have this kind of set up in the link I have included below. It's a good read. We need our health care workers. We need them to protect themselves so when they go home they aren't infecting others. Hospitals need to follow this hospital's protocol. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/10/us/ashoka-mukpo-ebola-nebraska-hospital.html?_r=0 |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:21am
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Looks like the space suits aren't going to afford a lot of protection with this any way you go. On another note, any bets that Louise Troh (Duncan's gf) or her kids are starting to show flu-like symptoms? Jesse Jackson better call off their date. I'm guessing they're now becoming symptomatic. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: sleusha
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:21am
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This is all very concerning. We are told that it doesn't spread easily but consistently see that people in full protective gear are being infected. This virus, once it latches on.. REALLY latches.. Does it borough into the skin via pores, etc? ------------- Be the positive change that you want to see. Live it, be it, push for it. |
Posted By: nc_girl
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:26am
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I agree with you Sleusha. It appears to be very easy to get to me from watching it go. and if just touching a suit for a second is enough to infect you, then it's easy to catch IMHO. I can't believe he mentioned dialysis as a problem! I told my coworkers the other day that I didn't see how that would NOT be problematic and one of them made fun of me and now Frieden just said it! |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:26am
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Hi sleusha, Ebola is a super-bug of sorts. Any virus this lethal is usually supped-up in all areas and very robust. The perfect little bug and killing machine, aside of it not being airborne. My own opinion. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:29am
| Guys we are in trouble when a fully protected nurse gets Ebola. Doc Besser says hospitals are ready... NOT! It is time to at least get ppe stuff so we can get to water if this spreads and infrastructure goes down. |
Posted By: Hazelpad
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:34am
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During press conference they were specifically asked when she had contact with Duncan, and they said it was during his second visit and not the first visit. They never said why they came to this conclusion. Perhaps she wasn't working that shift, or is not an A&E nurse, it did seem the only thing they were confident about replying. It is quite surprising that a HCW with full PPE becomes infected, yet the family members that cared for him with absolutely no PPE seem likely to have avoided it. ( they are still asymptomatic and well enough to be giving extensive press conferences, so I do believe the CDC on this. They also getting blood draws which are remaining negative) This could indicate_ 1) The infected nurse was exposed at a later date after admission or directly after death when viral load reached its peak, and was higher than when family were caring for him, touching and cleaning up after him. 2) Alternatively a frightening thought that the wearing of PPE actually increases your chance of being infected, especially as they deemed her involvement in Duncan's care as low risk. ( so no obvious mistake like needlestick injury, or obvious recorded breach or accident). I mean if Duncan had done a Sawyer ( Nigeria), and gone a mental she would have moved to high risk. Perhaps taking the PPE off is at fault or perhaps the spraying of chlorine while they are doing this is creating aerosols, or wet facemasks is allowing virus to bind, or perhaps the concentration of chlorine is wrong, or virus has become more resistant to chlorine and needs other agents, ......I will shut up, but these are all things that need to be addressed. |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 9:16am
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The Madrid nurse of course was recently infected in the same fashion while wearing protective gear. Another similarity is that they each had a dog at home. Dogs are very affectionate and can probably suck down the bodily fluids by bulk via licking, and prior to symptoms. Not looking good for the family pet. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 9:34am
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I used the link provided by Hazelpad. It was heavily edited and overall only about 2 minutes of video. Hazelpad, was the link you provided the original video? Or was it already edited when you posted to the forum? ..... because from where I sit it looks like CNN cropped out the damning bits. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 9:41am
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In the written portion of the CNN piece, one thing jumps out at me: They are no longer accepting patients via ER. Do they suspect inadequate hazmat containment in their ER? Will they now be contacting patients who transitted the ER after the first visit? Second visit? |
Posted By: sleusha
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 9:42am
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WASHINGTON (AP) — Top federal health officials said Sunday that the Ebola diagnosis in a health care worker who treated Thomas Eric Duncan at a Texas hospital clearly indicates a breach in safety protocol. But the unidentified worker has been unable to pinpoint where that breach might have occurred, according to Dr. Tom Frieden, head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "Á single inadvertent slip can result in contamination," he said during a briefing. He said the CDC has recommended that the hospital where the worker is being treated — and where Duncan died Wednesday — should keep "to an absolute minimum" those who care for Ebola patients and should perform only those procedures that are essential to a patient's treatment. The agency also called on the hospital to put in place a "full-time individual responsible for oversight of infection control." "In terms of safe and effective care, we had already begun several days ago to ramp up the education and training of health care workers at this facility," Frieden said. He cautioned that additional health care workers could develop Ebola even as he expressed confidence that the "chain of Ebola" could be broken. He said that the CDC, as part of its investigation on how the worker became infected, would look at dialysis and intubation, procedures with the potential for spreading infectious material, as well as the removal of protective gear. Removing it incorrectly can lead to a contamination, he said. There is a balance in the use of personal safety equipment, Frieden said, and "putting more on isn't always safer. It may make it harder, to provide effective care." Earlier, on CBS' "Face the Nation," Frieden said the worker was doing self-monitoring. "Immediately when they developed symptoms, they isolated themselves, they were promptly isolated at the hospital so that any further spread from that individual was stopped," he said. Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said there "certainly had to have been an inadvertent, innocent breach of protocol of taking care of a patient within the personal protective equipment." "We do know what when you do follow that protocol, it works," he told ABC's "This Week." The virus that causes Ebola is not airborne and can only be spread through direct contact with bodily fluids — blood, sweat, vomit, feces, urine, saliva or semen — of an infected person who is showing symptoms. In Spain, a nursing assistant diagnosed with the virus after caring for an Ebola patient recalled touching her gloved hand to her face while removing equipment and health authorities there are looking at that as a possible cause of infection. "We know from many years of experience that it's possible to care for patients with Ebola safely without risk to health care workers," Frieden said. "But we also know it's hard." Source: http://townhall.com/news/health/2014/10/12/cdc-protocol-breach-in-treating-ebola-patient-n1904107 ------------- Be the positive change that you want to see. Live it, be it, push for it. |
Posted By: onefluover
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 9:44am
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The only time in my life I wrecked a motorcycle was the only time in my life I wore a helmet. (Just outside the I 5 tunnel at sharp curve near China Town going towards Burbank for those of you who know the curve. 50 mph right into the cement dividing wall/fence. Took out 20 feet of the fence with my chest and throat but miraculously without a drop of blood or broken bone.) The helmet protected my head but caused me to crash. It is possible the PPE suits are giving a false sence of protection and or are causing exposure at the disrobe point. That or this virus is being aerosolized during decontam and a few particles are making it past the filters. ------------- "And then there were none." |
Posted By: onefluover
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 9:56am
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"In Spain, a nursing assistant diagnosed with the virus after caring for an Ebola patient recalled touching her gloved hand to her face while removing equipment and health authorities there are looking at that as a possible cause of infection." ..... I don't believe that. Inadvertent my patooty! If she remembered the contact to her face enough to later report it she one, would of remembered to NEVER do such a thing and two, if it did happen she would of remembered to immediately wash her face with a medical grade virucidal. Whether the report is true or not we've got problems Houston. ------------- "And then there were none." |
Posted By: onefluover
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 10:01am
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Jesse the Rev Jackson and that Judge should be arrested and jailed for gross reckless endangerment. Whether they get Ebola or not. Exposing themselves to make a point risks exposing others. These type people are my biggest fear of it getting loose here and elsewhere. ------------- "And then there were none." |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 10:04am
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In a modern hospital, how is the surface of PPE disinfected before removal? We see bleach sprayed in MSF video footage from W Africa, but how do they do it in North America? Spain? If HCWs can get infected removing the PPE, does that mean the current decontamination method is ineffective? What would ramifications be for ERs? Public spaces? At some point we have to stop blaming the heroic HCWs, and look at how we've set them up to fail. And EXCELLENT point brought up by (Hazelpad?)..... Where are the PPEs made, and what are the quality controls? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 10:07am
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Oneflu.. Right! If she can remember touching her face, then it was a conscious act... otherwise it would be impossible to remember. No one would consciously touch an Ebola laden glove to their face. |
Posted By: onefluover
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 10:15am
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I think they don't know how the HCW's exposures are taking place and they're throwing out assumptions rather than just telling the truth that they just don't know. But they cant tell the truth or it will appear many are just not up to the task. I agree though. The HCWs are being let down by some kind of false sence of security that is not necessarily their fault. ------------- "And then there were none." |
Posted By: nc_girl
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 10:20am
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I wonder at the way Frieden talked about the dialysis and intubation. I personally think that's where the breakdown happened along with using a face shield and not a fully contained air supply. I'm thinking that the hookup/disconnection process for the two procedures allows for the virus or some of it anyway to become airborne enough to be breathed in by those only with the face shields. BTW, now they are saying this hospital is ill prepared and needs training but when they first got Duncan they had bragged about just having finished ebola training and being ebola certified. Wonder what that training was and what it means to be 'ebola certified' considering all the blunders? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 10:45am
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nc_girl, You posted a comment earlier about a brief touch on PPE and resulting infection from something so 'difficult to catch'. I think that says it all. Dialysis and intubation looks like a free ticket for Ebola. I wonder how many of the other HCW cases involved those procedures. (likely few, given conditions)... But would be interesting to know. |
Posted By: Hazelpad
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 11:02am
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Sorry GN I put the link to the edited version which I was using to demonstrate point I was making at the time. Whole Press Conference on youtube. Watched it on live TV today in UK, kids were like " oh mum not something about emolia....as they call it...they are young. Pestilence : Press Conference of Second Confirmed…: http://youtu.be/hpZEhUMHO2AhpZEhUMHO2A Still not convinced about chlorine spray, you need to let the stuff have time to work before it inactivates the virus. Different bacteria and virus need different exposure times to the sterilisating agent ( see CDC guidelines below). Importantly the process is not instantaneous, I.e. spray hits, virus presumed immediately dead, that's totally wrong. Despite this in the videos I have seen they start the spraying immediatley as the workers begin disrobing. Without giving it time to exert its antimicrobial properties, this fluid could simply be mechanically washing any virus downward concentrating it to glove region. Quickly looked on CDC website they are very vague saying quote: One study reported that 25 different viruses were inactivated in 10 minutes with 200 ppm available chlorine. Also found the following there. Free chlorine kills many pathogens such as E. coli 0157: H7 in less than a minute if it is maintained at proper disinfection levels (1-3 parts per million [ppm] free chlorine) and under ideal water conditions (pH at 7.5 or less ). However, a few germs are moderately chlorine-tolerant. The table below shows the approximate disinfection times for these germs in chlorinated water. Chlorine Disinfection Timetable E. coli 0157:H7 (Bacterium) less than 1 minute. Hepatitis A (Virus) approximately 16 minutes. Giardia (Parasite) approximately 45 minutes Notes: 1 mg/L (1ppm) free chlorine at pH 7.5 and 25° C (77° F) Disinfection times would be expected to be longer in the presence of a chlorine stabilizer such as cyanuric acid. Anyway will post link as it shows all the antimicrobial disinfectants and what they are and aren't effective against. http://www.cdc.gov/hicpac/disinfection_sterilization/6_0disinfection.html Anyway just thinking. |
Posted By: onefluover
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 11:19am
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Yes. Which is why autoclaving of instruments is only approved method in tattooing. Cold sterilants are never approved. But... Kinda hard to autoclave a human in PPE. There has got to be a failproof way figured out that is simple and safe. ------------- "And then there were none." |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 11:21am
| " free ticket for ebola".... who doesnt want such.. i also thought what can one do with the equipment after doing dialysis to one patient with ebola.... it is pretty hard to cremate it i presume... |
Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 11:39am
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I've just read that someone else connected with the nurse is in isolation. I wonder if they have symptoms? A “close contact” of the worker has been “proactively” placed in isolation, Varga added. – |
Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 11:42am
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Don't they have CCTV in isolation units? They always do in the movies. Perhaps they could look back and see where a possible contamination occurred. I'm interested to see that they have shut the ER of that hospital. Talk about shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted! So they've has a weeks worth of sick and injured people through the place and now they are shutting it? Very odd. ------------- Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts. |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 11:44am
Maybe not. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 11:46am
| kiwimum.. i really do not think it was a very obvious thing ... so that you can see it on camera.... i do think it had something to do with the sterilisation procedure afterwards... a small mistake there and it is done... |
Posted By: Jen147
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 12:17pm
One other option might be as soon as she realized she'd done it she stopped cold & thought oh my gosh what did I just do. Then pulled a Duncan... went on about her life praying that that one touch wouldn't matter but knowing in the back of her mind that any day now she might show symptoms.
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Posted By: Jen147
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 12:21pm
Really good points Hazel, I had not considered this. I just assumed watching them spray each other down & spraying paths on the ground that it was instant.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 12:27pm
| That's a pretty big hospital to be shutting down an ER. This whole Dallas outbreak is starting to smell like a dead fish. |
Posted By: debg
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 12:40pm
Remember when we were first discussing MERS on here and all of the those first patients were getting dialysis? This is making think the same thing with the Dallas case....although since it is obviously extremely easy to catch, (sorry CDC), there are probably multiple ways she could have gotten infected. Whatever the transmission was, this is terrifying and if those flights don't get stopped, I'm afraid we are going to be seeing many, many more..... |
Posted By: Phylica1
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 12:42pm
| The nurse was at work till two days ago , I believe that's what they said. Friday was when the hospital knew the nurse had a fever. Therefore, they made no announcement of another possible case till today. Who was the nurse around at work? |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 1:17pm
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I personally believe a larger part of this cluster will emerge this next week in upwards of 3 + new cases. "Clusters" usually always involve healthcare AND family. I'm not ruling out the GF Louise Troh and/or family being symptomatic right now. If i was a betting man, I would probably put a small wager on it that they are in fact now showing signs. Get ready for another announcement, is my personal opinion. As long as they handle/contain these new ones correctly, then they can minimize the contact tracing and contain it. If we get a rogue case completely outside the contact watch list, well then they better call in Doctors without Borders (lol) and prepare for a large one - defcon 5 ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: onefluover
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 1:59pm
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Yeah and I'm not so sure I believe the Mexican report as being bogus. Neither side of that is confirmed to my satisfaction. And if that Mexican guy caught it in Dallas as stated then from whom? Of course this is only speculation but I'm holding my breath for now. ------------- "And then there were none." |
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 2:10pm
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Meanwhile the Hazmat team clean the first infected healthcare worker's home. http://washingtonexaminer.com/hazmat-team-arrives-to-clean-ebola-patients-home/article/feed/2172427 - http://washingtonexaminer.com/hazmat-team-arrives-to-clean-ebola-patients-home/article/feed/2172427 ------------- How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips or pen are moving. |
Posted By: waterboy
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 2:49pm
| Relax albert.Your right though |
Posted By: Schrödinger's Cat
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 2:52pm
I'm with you Onefluover, seems one to keep an eye on. |
Posted By: Jen147
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 3:05pm
I read she was self checking herself for fever. When she showed one she self quarantined herself at home then went to the hospital where she was isolated.
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Posted By: Hazelpad
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 3:39pm
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So sorry if some have you have read the full question and answer interview posted on the CDC website ( link at bottom of post). However for those who havent I picked out 4 questions TOM FRIEDEN answered below. Firstly about why the HCW and not family have caught it. Second has the HCW any idea when she got exposed. Next a bit about dialysis in Ebola patients, and last about contact tracing of this new case: Press Briefing Transcript CDC update on Dallas Ebola Response, 10-12-2014 We will now take questions. We will start in the room and then go to the phone. 1: JEFFREY WISE: Yes. Can you speak to how a health care worker using high precautions apparently caught the Ebola when people who had close contact in that apartment several days did not, and do you have any plans to transfer this new case to one of the specialty hospitals in Atlanta or Nebraska, someplace like that. TOM FRIEDEN: With regard to the first question, when patients have Ebola, they become progressively infectious the sicker they become, because the amount of virus in their body and in their secretions increases, and people who had contact with this individual, the index patient, in Dallas prior to his isolation are not yet out of their 21 day exposure period, so we're not out of the woods yet with potential additional cases among contacts before isolation. But medical procedures involve dealing with blood, dealing with body fluids, diarrhea, vomit, other things that may have very large quantities of virus, and that's why the personal protective equipment and protocols are so important because as someone gets sicker, they get more infectious also. We will look at all possibilities to ensure the safe care of patients to the greatest extent possible. Next question. 2: STEVE GEHLBACH: Steve Gelbach with WSB TV in Atlanta. This health care worker had multiple contacts with the original patient. In your interviews with her, has she been specifically isolated, a chance where this may have occurred where this breach you say in those interviews with her, talking about why you're investigating, where she's taking off the equipment or anything, why you're focusing on that part in your investigation? TOM FRIEDEN: We have spoken with the health care worker and that individual has not been able to identify a specific breach. We look at every single interaction, what was the nature of the interaction, look at any information we can gather. I was not mentioning taking on or off or procedures related to the investigation but as a general rule. These are the two areas where we see the greatest risk. 3: OPERATOR: Next question comes from Lisa Schnirring with CIDRAP. LISA SCHNIRRING: Hi, thanks for making such great information available today. I'm wondering how common is it for people to be on dialysis or to be intubated during an Ebola infection, is that something you've seen in other patients treated in western countries? Just wondering how common that is and how often health care workers have had to deal with those situations. Thanks so much. TOM FRIEDEN: Thank you. I don't know the details of the other patients cared for in other parts of the world, but I’m not familiar with any prior patient with Ebola who has undergone either intubation or dialysis. Certainly it would be very unusual if it has happened before. I do So he also went on to say this case is the start of a whole new chain of contacts....I.e. The first chain was those with contact before he went into isolation on September 28th. This new chain was for those in contact with him after isolation, I.e. within the ICU. TOM FRIEDEN: Thank you. So the 48 contacts identified were individual who had contact up to September 28th, the day he was isolated. This person was not exposed in that period of time. Those 48 as per everything we know are the only people he may have had contact with before he became isolated. In terms of the care in the hospital from the 28th to October 8th, the date he passed away, that's a period of 10, 11 days when there may have been additional contacts, given the fact this individual clearly was exposed then. That's what's being investigated now. So that first contact tracing period identified what we still believe is all 48 who were exposed, up to the time he was isolated. Now we're doing a new investigation given the diagnosis late last night of this individual of anyone else who may have been exposed once he was on what should have been effective isolation. In terms of the clinical status of the patient, i can say that our information is that as of at least some time back, she was showing only mild symptoms and low grade fever. Our team lead did interview her directly and will continue to monitor closely to ensure she gets the best possible care. We will take two more questions on the phone. Full questions and answers at http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/t1012-ebola-reponse-update.html |
Posted By: Hazelpad
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 4:06pm
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Oneflu .......We also autoclave everything before use. Nothing gets used unless the black lines on the tape turn black. Organic variables, bugs viruses can contaminate and influence results and bacteria medium, clinical waste get the treatment also. Autoclave waste stinks. Despite this, and using sterile techniques we still get contamination in our work, usually fungal, so nothing is fail safe. What will you do if someone walks into your shop saying they want a tattoo of their beloved homeland which they were forced to leave the week before, then whip out national flag of Liberia. You never know, fortune favours the prepared. |
Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 4:51pm
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The CDC is pointing the finger at a "breach of protocol", but they don't know for sure. Why wouldn't the nurse know how the protocol was breached? Perhaps there is something else going on here. CDC News conference: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/12/health-care-worker-at-dallas-hospital-tests-positive-for-ebola/ What if they're wrong about airborne transmissibility? WHY SHOULD ANY NURSE OR DOCTOR PUT THEIR LIVES AT RISK IN THIS COUNTRY SIMPLY BECAUSE OUR PRESIDENT REFUSES TO SHUT DOWN FLIGHTS OUT OF W. AFRICA? THEY SHOULD USE MILITARY TRANPORT PLANES FOR MEDICAL WORKERS AND SUPPLIES, NOT PASSENGER JETS! |
Posted By: onefluover
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 6:59pm
Good question Hazel. There are actually quite extensive rules and regulations governing tattooing in place in many states in the US, Oregon being the sixth State to regulate at the state level and the toughest of which I sat on the advisory committee that drew up those regulations that most of the other states reference in creating their own set of regs. This is of course past-tence as I sold my businesses in June of 012 but any prospective client must be free of any known or perceived infectious disease or bloodborne pathogen to receive work and that is not optional. Perceived is of course rather vague. Being from Liberia alone is not a disqualifier. I would take the persons temperature. If it was normal then I would proceeded. However, my contractors are self employed and in my view would have the right to decline based on the circumstances. I could neither legally order them to proceed nor would I ask them to and I will say that most would not. Whether they would be setting themselves up for a discrimination claim or not is not known by me. But at this point in the situation I personally would do it. At some point along in the future though, yes, I would decline. ------------- "And then there were none." |
Posted By: KiwiMum
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 7:23pm
Elver, your president doesn't have any authority to shut down flights out of W. Africa. He can close his borders and prevent flights from W. Africa - and anywhere else - landing in America but he can't stop them leaving Africa. He has no authority on anyone elses borders. He has no power to prevent a whole plane load of Ebola victims flying straight into Paris for example, but he can stop them coming directly to America. The question is how far do you take it? Ban all direct flights coming from Africa, but what about the flights coming from London or Paris where a passenger could transit through? ------------- Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts. |
Posted By: miker
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 7:44pm
Passports or other accepted forms of ID are required to enter the US, right ? How do you think they enforce the no fly lists ? Yes, they can be faked, but same for terrorists, and I imagine they're at least reasonably good at keeping terrorists out through secret methods, and to the point of banning many people who should never be on no fly lists in the first place. I think it's a reasonable assumption that many Ebola infected "runners" might not have the time or financial resources to find a way to sneak through the security checks. Yes, maybe a few percent might get through, but that's a great deal better than 25% or 100%. ------------- :) |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 7:51pm
| Ok so how long will it take to discover what protocol was breached? Has anyone asked this nurse? Hope they come up with answers soon the American people are really watching this one! |
Posted By: miker
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:02pm
In the earliest news releases about the Spanish nurse/assistant, she said that she had no idea how she got infected. Those stories continued for 4-5 days, IIRC, then suddenly she claimed to remember touching her face with glove. I think it's very unusual for someone to not remember something for several days, and then suddenly remember a lapse. A theory was floated on another site that her employer or the authorities there may have asked her to report this bogus "memory" in the name of "panic" reduction, business as usual for the economy, and/or to save money on PPE purchases; motives that have been alleged for the CDC as well. So far the trend has been to blame the nurses first, rather than doctors, public health officials, lax immigration or the use of BSL 2 PPE when BSL 4 is called for. (1) Texas hospital/CDC first blamed admissions nurse for 1st visit screwup, then later changed the story at least twice, LOL. (2) Blame the Spanish nurse. (3) Blame this latest nurse. CDC's Frieden said "...there was a breach in protocol," confidently, before any investigation. Frieden does not want to admit that the CDC protocol of BSL 2 is insufficient. ------------- :) |
Posted By: miker
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:07pm
I have doubts that they will let this nurse talk publicly about protocol. I'd bet everybody is filling out paperwork trying to cover their own asses of any blame. Chances of a "tell all" document coming out might be higher if she dies, Of course a lawsuit or a movie deal might loosen lips of someone otherwise worried about losing their job, or being sued herself for breaching employer confidentiality. ------------- :) |
Posted By: miker
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:20pm
IMO, it's not surprising, and your #1 is the likely answer. It's well established that death is the peak of the virus. That's what we've seen and heard from those working in the clinics in West Africa. Enough so IMO, that it exceeds the protection of BSL level 2 PPE when you have to handle things which contain eg highly infectious human feces. And of course that's why the West Africans are doing better than the PPE requirements in the US/Spain, and yet still they have so many health workers there getting it and dying. When he was in the apartment he was still going to the bathroom by himself and the virus ramps up a huge amount in the last week of life. ------------- :) |
Posted By: onefluover
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:29pm
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Thanks Miker from the beautiful country of Canada! And welcome to avianflutalk.com You have some interesting points. ------------- "And then there were none." |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 8:47pm
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If protocol was breached while taking off the suit, that only supports that the virus can survive outside the host on various surfaces/suits for awhile and perhaps an hour or so. That's a pretty good secondary mode. On another note - I noticed in Madrid in the recent similar situation that they euthanized the nurse's dog for concerns. Almost like a remake of old yeller going down on this one soon. Is that dog carrying the virus? ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: onefluover
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 9:29pm
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DALLAS — The health care worker who tested positive for Ebola has a dog, but the mayor of Dallas says unlike in a recent Spanish case, the dog will be kept safe for eventual reunion with its owner. Mayor Mike Rawlings told USA TODAY that the dog remained in the health care worker's apartment when she was hospitalized and will soon be sent to a new location to await its owner's recovery. There are no plans to euthanize the dog, he said. "This was a new twist," Rawlings said. "The dog's very important to the patient and we want it to be safe." There were no immediate details on the name or type of dog. More: http://www.google.com/gwt/x?u=http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2014/10/12/dallas-ebola-health-worker-dog/17159727/&ei=oFQ7VNf4F6SUsQfp_ICYCA&wsc=yh ------------- "And then there were none." |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 9:35pm
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Good. That could have been a sad little turn in this. Let's hope they both do survive this and are reunited. I will look forward to seeing that day. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: Jen147
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 9:37pm
| Me too, Yay for dogs! |
Posted By: onefluover
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 9:58pm
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Chalk one up for Fido! Watch it become Dog Zero now. Just kidding just kidding! See you'all, us Americans aren't always all bad. ------------- "And then there were none." |
Posted By: Elver
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 10:26pm
I just posted the other day that Ebola can survive on surfaces for up to 6 days under perfect conditions. They didn't define "perfect conditions". |
Posted By: Jen147
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 11:52pm
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I know I've already posted this before but it bears repeating... Why can't they set up a tiny room where the HCW stands arms up going round & round with these UV lights on all sides of the room? Kinda like spray tanning,lol. Dallas, TX-Robots are turning out to be the best weapon against Ebola in one Texas hospital. There's no more scrubbing with soap and water to disinfect patient rooms. The University Hospital in San Antonio is on the cutting edge with robots that flash UV light to kill the germs. The light is 25,000 times brighter than the sun, which can kill viruses such as Ebola. "In a typical room, the housekeeper cleans the bathroom, wheel the robot into the room. The light goes up and down as it pulses for about 5 minutes and that's just saturating the room with light and zapping the germ,” said Mark Stibich, robot developer."It is very difficult to clean every square inch of a room. The robot does that with light." Patients say they feel more comfortable knowing the room is totally clean. "It makes me feel very excited to know that they are keeping up with the newest and the best of the technology out there,” said patient Carol Wisdom. "As a nurse I look around, cleanliness is a really big thing in the hospital." Each robot costs about $100,000. |
Posted By: Jen147
Date Posted: October 12 2014 at 11:59pm
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Posted By: coyote
Date Posted: October 13 2014 at 3:24am
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Sorry should have put this in another thread.. Health workers threaten to stay away from work on Monday, unless government agrees to hike their hazard pay. Nurses and medical workers in Liberia are threatening to go on strike over a pay dispute, a move that could deliver a serious blow to the fight against Ebola which has killed hundreds in the west African country. Members of Liberia's National Health Workers Association said they would not report for work on Monday unless a demand for an increase in hazard pay was met. The association said on Sunday it was calling for hazard pay to be increased by around $200, from what is currently less than $500. The average Liberian health worker's base salary is between $200 and $300. [link to www.aljazeera.com] ------------- Long time lurker since day one to Member. |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 13 2014 at 3:47am
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Thanks coyote buddy, we probably should start a new thread for that because it's interesting new news. This thread has almost run its course going in several diff directions. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |
Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: October 13 2014 at 3:56am
In a cold climate or under 32 degrees it can survive for weeks. An imported case to the wrong spot over the next couple months and it will be a game changer for outbreaks. SURVIVAL OUTSIDE HOST: Filoviruses have been reported capable to survive for weeks in blood and can also survive on contaminated surfaces, particularly at low temperatures (4°C) http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php#footnote52 - Footnote 52 http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php#footnote61 - Footnote 61 . One study could not recover any Ebolavirus from experimentally contaminated surfaces (plastic, metal or glass) at room temperature http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php#footnote61 - Footnote 61 . In another study, Ebolavirus dried onto glass, polymeric silicone rubber, or painted aluminum alloy is able to survive in the dark for several hours under ambient conditions (between 20 and 250C and 30–40% relative humidity) (amount of virus reduced to 37% after 15.4 hours), but is less stable than some other viral hemorrhagic fevers (Lassa) http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php#footnote53 - Footnote 53 . When dried in tissue culture media onto glass and stored at 4 °C, Zaire ebolavirus survived for over 50 days http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php#footnote61 - Footnote 61 . This information is based on experimental findings only and not based on observations in nature. This information is intended to be used to support local risk assessments in a laboratory setting. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk |