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sixth mass extinction event

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Printed Date: November 24 2017 at 6:44am


Topic: sixth mass extinction event
Posted By: arirish
Subject: sixth mass extinction event
Date Posted: July 11 2017 at 7:46am
Earth has entered into a sixth mass extinction event

Animal populations across the planet have decreased by as much as 80 per cent since 1900 - an event akin to "biological annihilation". The consequences for humans could be severe

Lions used to roam across most of Africa, southern Europe, and the Middle East, all the way to northwestern India. Today, there are fewer than 25,000 lions left in the wild, down from an estimated 400,000 in 1950. They cling to life in the confines of Sub-Saharan Africa, and the wilds of India's Gir forest. The vast majority of the lion population are gone - and their decline is thought to be but one part of a mass extinction event.


Between 1900 and 2015, nearly half of 177 surveyed mammal species lost more than 80 per cent of their distribution. Billions of populations of mammals, birds, reptiles and amphibians have been lost all over the planet, prompting scientists to suggest we have now entered a sixth mass extinction akin to a "biological annihilation".
Professor Gerardo Ceballos, at the Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, says that now, "the extinction of mammal populations, although varying from species to species, [is] a global phenomenon".

His work, published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, tracks the significant rate of mammalian extinction across the Earth - describing it as a “frightening assault on the foundations of human civilisation”.

In Earth's history, there have been five mass extinction events. The last, during the Cretaceous–Paleogene period, brought an end to the dinosaurs. A combination of volcanic activity and asteroid impacts resulted in the loss of 75 per cent of life on the planet, 65 million years ago. In the 21st Century, with anthropogenic changes to the climate and landscape of the world, a sixth extinction event could be on the horizon.

Large regions in all continents have lost 50 per cent or more of the populations of the evaluated mammals from 1900 to 2015. While the small sample size only covers 177 species, and is biased to larger mammals, this figure can be used to visualise likely trends in global population losses. Assuming that on average each of the 10,000km2 occupied quadrats studied held a single population of the species found within it, Ceballos estimates that roughly 58,000 populations of the 177 mammals examined have gone extinct.
"Earth is now in a period of mass global species extinction for vertebrate animals," Ceballos says, "but the true extent of this mass extinction has been underestimated".

This underestimation in the level of vertebrate extinction has been linked to the largely overlooked area of studying population shrinkage as opposed to solely species extinction. By focusing on this area, Ceballos doesn't wait until the species has disappeared, but tracks their current changes in population across the world - a method that outlines an overall trend of species decline.

This method has limitations - namely the difficulty in ascertaining the actual average area occupied by a vertebrate population. But even using conservative estimates for smaller species, such as mammals, birds, reptiles, and amphibians, one population every 10km2 would result in hundreds of thousands of population extinctions over a few centuries. Moreover, population extinctions are preludes to larger species extinction.

Regions exhibiting higher concentrations of species and population decline show a strong correspondence to an intertropical peak, roughly between the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn. Areas of most devastating loss occur across the African continent, as well as India and Australia - but are prevalent around the globe.

Ceballos' study shows that creatures of all shapes and sizes, both vertebrates and invertebrates, are found to be in states of decline. In the UK, long-term monitoring of insect populations shows that 30 to 60 per cent of species have contracting ranges. The significance of this species loss cannot be understated.

Records covering 4,424 species, collected between 1970 and 2009 by the Centre for Ecology and Hydrology found losses across the UK. Of pollinators such as bees, moths and hoverflies, 28 per cent are in decline. Pest controllers such as ants have seen a 16 per cent loss.

Tom Oliver, an ecologist at the University of Reading who led this study, told the Guardian the consequences of losing wildlife would have stark repercussions on food production and our national ecosystem.

“We need insects to pollinate our crops – we can’t do it by hand – and if we lose natural pest controls, less food will be available. If we lose those functions, the crops we eat won’t be able to be pollinated so the price of food would go hugely up and certain foods we wouldn’t be able to eat such as fruits including strawberries, raspberries and apples.”

Furthermore, slight changes in the ecosystem could drastically affect our ability to maintain arable land, with the diversity of tree and plant species also in decline.

Ceballos' research is not alone in indicating an extinction level threat to biodiversity. 60 per cent of primate species - our closest biological relatives - are now threatened with extinction. Globally, 75 per cent have declining populations. Primates offer critical insights into human evolution, biology, and behaviour, yet it is the anthropogenic activity that is threatening their survival.

Forest loss resulting from regional and global economic pressures, the impacts of hunting, illegal trade, and other anthropogenic threats on global animal populations have led to sustained habitat loss and changes to many ecosystems, from Australia's coral reefs to the Amazonian rainforest.

The likelihood of Earth's extinction lies in the causes of population extinctions, Ceballo says. Rapid loss of animals across the globe and comparable losses in the diversity of plants, indicate a co-extinction of plants. Plants, vital sources of food, medicine and central absorbers of atmospheric CO2, are key to human life. Without them, an extinction level event for humans grows likely

"Habitat conversion, climate disruption, overexploitation, toxification, species invasions, disease, and (potentially) large-scale nuclear war — all tied to one another in complex patterns and usually reinforcing each other’s impacts," Ceballo says. "Much less frequently mentioned are, however, the ultimate drivers of those immediate causes of biotic destruction, namely, human overpopulation and continued population growth, and over-consumption, especially by the rich."

At a glance, Ceballo's research presents a dark, but conservative insight into global biodiversity. It suggests that as much as 50 per cent of the number of animals that once shared Earth with us are already gone. Given the increasing trajectories of the drivers of extinction, the window for action to move towards a sustainable future is slowly closing.

"The sixth mass extinction is already here and the window for effective action is very short," Ceballo says, "probably two or three decades at most. All signs point to ever more powerful assaults on biodiversity in the next two decades, painting a dismal picture of the future of life, including human life."





http://http://www.wired.co.uk/article/sixth-mass-extinction-humans-animals-conservation" rel="nofollow - http://www.wired.co.uk/article/sixth-mass-extinction-humans-animals-conservation

http://http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2017/07/05/1704949114" rel="nofollow - http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2017/07/05/1704949114

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Buy more ammo!



Replies:
Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: July 11 2017 at 9:49am
Lucky we have an administration that cares...




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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: July 11 2017 at 11:01am
Yep! Clown

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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: July 11 2017 at 12:04pm
I'd laugh, but, you know... Angry




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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 11 2017 at 2:59pm
i worry for my Grandkids..............Unhappy


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12 monkeys!!!!!


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: July 11 2017 at 10:34pm
I worry for our kids, carbon.





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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 11 2017 at 11:31pm
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfDxT7sjCFQ[//url] Paul Beckwith is one of many scientists who has been warning of the effects climate change has on life on earth for years. In 2006 came https://www.algore.com/library/an-inconvenient-truth-dvd" rel="nofollow - https://www.algore.com/library/an-inconvenient-truth-dvd . But warnings for climatechange go back to 1847 ! 

The sixth mass extinction is happening NOW ! Not in the IPCC 2100 scenario, not a problem for when (grand)children are grown-ups, but we are already in the middle of it !

https://www.facebook.com/JoseBarbaNueva?fref=nf&pnref=story" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/JoseBarbaNueva?fref=nf&pnref=story Joe Neubarth is following (a.o.) the methane release in the Arctic. Water vapor and methane are driving the abrupt climate change we are in now. 

http://arctic-news.blogspot.nl/2017/05/abrupt-warming-how-much-and-how-fast.html" rel="nofollow - http://arctic-news.blogspot.nl/2017/05/abrupt-warming-how-much-and-how-fast.html Sam Carana comes with his calculations of over 10 degrees Celsius temperature rise in the coming 10 years. Both Joe Neubarth and Sam Carana (and many others, Guy McPherson etc) have a very good story in wich they warn that humans may have only a few years left. 

I am not a scientist. But I do think radical changes MUST be made NOW ! Maybe those changes can slow down climate change enough to buy us time to avoid "end of live". 

I expect mass media will be confronted with stories off floodings, wildfires, extreme heat, food crisis etc. more and more and more. Even trump will wake up one day to see there is a very big problem. 




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Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !


Posted By: Satori
Date Posted: July 12 2017 at 1:01am

EPA chief wants his useless climate change 'debate' televised, and I need a drink


https://www.yahoo.com/news/epa-chief-wants-useless-climate-224316151.html


Trump=the WRONG person ,at the WRONG time,in the WRONG job


let him go back to cheating carpenters,painters and carpet layers and taking Russian mob money


he may very well have SEALED our fate



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“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: July 12 2017 at 3:15am
JD, Carbon - I worry for me. Exclamation

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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 12 2017 at 3:21am
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/18/climate/antarctica-ice-melt-climate-change.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/18/climate/antarctica-ice-melt-climate-change.html

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140302-melting-ice-may-be-making-mountains-collapse-in-greenland/#.WWVnbxhG1-g.facebook" rel="nofollow - https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140302-melting-ice-may-be-making-mountains-collapse-in-greenland/#.WWVnbxhG1-g.facebook

The sixth-mas-extinction-event is NOW and HERE. It should be the main news-top priority. 

What amazes me most that it is not top news. We have ruined our only planet and are making selfies of it; are we all crazy ?


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Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: July 12 2017 at 3:55am
The Larson  C ice shelf just calved an enormous iceberg.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/12/giant-antarctic-iceberg-breaks-free-of-larsen-c-ice-shelf" rel="nofollow - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/12/giant-antarctic-iceberg-breaks-free-of-larsen-c-ice-shelf




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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 12 2017 at 5:08am
https://robertscribbler.com/2017/07/11/antarcticas-4th-largest-ice-shelf-is-about-to-melt-back-to-its-smallest-area-ever-recorded/" rel="nofollow - https://robertscribbler.com/2017/07/11/antarcticas-4th-largest-ice-shelf-is-about-to-melt-back-to-its-smallest-area-ever-recorded/ with good info in the comments. 

On the Guardian article; I understand mass-media do not want to be blamed for creating mass-panic. But (Ant)Arctic ice melting on this scale is a gigantic problem.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/what-mass-extinctions-teach-us-about-climate-change-today.html?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-t" rel="nofollow - http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/what-mass-extinctions-teach-us-about-climate-change-today.html?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-t


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Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !


Posted By: arirish
Date Posted: July 12 2017 at 8:48am
Giant iceberg splits from Antarctic

One of the biggest icebergs ever recorded has just broken away from Antarctica.

The giant block is estimated to cover an area of roughly 6,000 sq km; that's about a quarter the size of Wales.

An US satellite observed the berg on Wednesday while passing over a region known as the Larsen C Ice Shelf.

Scientists were expecting it. They'd been following the development of a large crack in Larsen's ice for more than a decade.

The rift's propagation had accelerated since 2014, making an imminent calving ever more likely.




The more than 200m-thick tabular berg will not move very far, very fast in the short term. But it will need to be monitored. Currents and winds might eventually push it north of the Antarctic where it could become a hazard to shipping.

An infrared sensor on the American space agency's Aqua satellite spied clear water in the rift between the shelf and the berg on Wednesday. The water is warmer relative to the surrounding ice and air - both of which are sub-zero.

"The rift was barely visible in these data in recent weeks, but the signature is so clear now that it must have opened considerably along its whole length," explained Prof Adrian Luckman, whose Project Midas at Swansea University has followed the berg's evolution most closely.

The event was confirmed by other spacecraft such as Europe's Sentinel-1 satellite-radar system.

http://http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-40321674" rel="nofollow - http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-40321674

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Buy more ammo!


Posted By: arirish
Date Posted: July 12 2017 at 8:56am
A planet devastated by climate change may seem like a distant future. But Earth is already experiencing the effects of rising global temperatures today.

Worldwide, the mean rate of sea level rise increased 50% in the last two decades. In 2017, temperatures have already reached their highest levels in history in some areas, from California to Vietnam. The past three years were the hottest on record.

These changes are caused by increasing levels of carbon dioxide and methane in the Earth's atmosphere, a product of human activity. And as New York Magazine's David Wallace-Wells recently noted, no single emissions reduction program we have today is enough to prevent climate disaster — not even the Paris agreement.

Even if every signatory country in the accord meets its current pledge for reducing emissions — including the US, though Trump has pledged to pull the country out of the agreement — the world is still projected to warm over 2 degrees Celsius by 2050. The Paris agreement points out this reality in a section titled, "Notes with concern."

Two degrees may not seem like much, but the rise would have substantial impacts. Scientists say that places that supply the world's food, including Southern Europe and much of the Middle East, Australia, Africa, South America, and China, would be in permanent, extreme drought by 2080. Flooding would become a serious issue near the coasts, where a third of the world's major cities are located, since sea levels are projected to rise by at least 10 feet by the end of the century.


Even if every country on the planet cuts emissions, the climate would still be screwed
Experts also warn that if the Arctic ice continues to melt, ancient diseases trapped in glaciers could get released. Plus, the world would face the extinction of many animal species and rising human mortality.

The planet has already warmed nearly 1 degree Celsius, and James Hansen, a renowned climate scientist at Columbia University, suggested in a recent paper that keeping global warming below 1.5 degrees is nearly impossible. Hansen suggested that hitting the goal would require negative emissions levels, which would mean capturing carbon and taking it out of the atmosphere.

To make matters worse, our best protection against the effects of rising carbon dioxide levels comes from so-called "carbon sinks" — patches of land and ocean that absorb large chunks of the carbon dioxide we pump into the atmosphere. But now those sinks may be at capacity, prompting the Earth to continue cooking even as emissions get curbed.

In a recent open letter, six prominent scientists and diplomats, including former UN climate chief Christiana Figueres and physicist Stefan Rahmstorf, wrote that the world has approximately three years before the worst effects of climate change take hold.

Published June 28, the letter urges governments, businesses, scientists, and citizens to address the world's greenhouse-gas emissions now. If emissions can be permanently lowered by 2020, they wrote, global temperatures will likely avoid reaching that irreversible threshold.

In the letter, the scientists propose six goals to hit by 2020:
• Increase renewable energy to 30% of electricity use.
• Draft plans for cities and states to ditch fossil fuel energy by 2050, with funding of $300 billion annually.
• Ensure 15% of all new vehicles sold are electric.
• Cut net emissions from deforestation.
• Publish plan for halving emissions from deforestation well before 2050.
• Encourage the financial sector to issue more "green bonds" toward climate-mitigation efforts.

But those aims are at odds with the priorities of the Trump administration, which has signaled that climate change mitigation is not on its agenda. Because of that conflict, the authors call for US cities and businesses to fight emissions and meet the Paris accord goals without the help of the federal government.

"We stand at the doorway of being able to bend the emissions curve downwards by 2020, as science demands, in protection of the UN sustainable development goals, and in particular the eradication of extreme poverty," Figueres said in a press release.

"This monumental challenge coincides with an unprecedented openness to self-challenge on the part of sub-national governments inside the US, governments at all levels outside the US, and of the private sector in general. The opportunity given to us over the next three years is unique in history."

Wallace-Wells emphasized in his recent New York Magazine piece that an enormous effort from the world's governments and citizens is crucial for staving off the worst effects of climate change. Whether the world will succeed in addressing emissions in a serious way, however, remains to be seen.


http://http://www.businessinsider.com/emissions-cuts-not-enough-climate-change-2017-7" rel="nofollow - http://www.businessinsider.com/emissions-cuts-not-enough-climate-change-2017-7

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Buy more ammo!


Posted By: Satori
Date Posted: July 12 2017 at 9:51am
plenty of VERY dire predictions from people like McPherson and associates

one thing I am watching closely is food production

when you see falling production of the major grains eg. corn,wheat and rice
then it is past time to hit the panic button

McPherson predicts the end of humanity within 10 years or so
IF true
we're not going to get to year 9,day 364 and then the next day 7 billion people suddenly drop dead

LONG before that happens a LOT of very bad stuff has to happen
the dieoff  as predicted by McPherson is going to be gradual
culminating in eventual extinction

WATCH FOOD PRODUCTION


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“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov


Posted By: Satori
Date Posted: July 12 2017 at 12:31pm

Extreme Weather Takes A Toll On Wheat Harvests. Climate Change Will Make It Worse.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/climate-change-wheat_us_59663fece4b03f144e2fc6ff?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009




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“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 12 2017 at 2:29pm
Climate change is the biggest challage Mankind has ever  faced,

and most dont believe its Happening RIGHT NOW before our eyes,

when Koyoto agreement signed i thought "HOW DO I REDUCE MY CARBON USAGE BY 50%"

answer stay at home 3 1/2 days a week and do nothing not even turn a light on ,cook,flush Lavatory

this is the reality,well as i see it 

so we screwed..........


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12 monkeys!!!!!


Posted By: Diligent
Date Posted: July 12 2017 at 5:09pm
Just keep an eye on Fukushima because it is still a very bad situation.

Diligent




Posted By: Satori
Date Posted: July 12 2017 at 6:16pm

Pruitt blasts Europe, Merkel for ‘hypocrisy’ on climate

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/12/pruitt-climate-hypocrisy-merkel-europe-240479


MORE fail on the part of the Trump administration


big surpriseDead



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“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov


Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 12 2017 at 10:54pm
Another story: http://www.newsprepper.com/warning-california-volcano-ready-blow-lond-valley-volcano-scientists-warning/" rel="nofollow - http://www.newsprepper.com/warning-california-volcano-ready-blow-lond-valley-volcano-scientists-warning/ and http://www.newsprepper.com/breaking-russian-researchers-warn-megaquake-will-rip-america/" rel="nofollow - http://www.newsprepper.com/breaking-russian-researchers-warn-megaquake-will-rip-america/

A series of very large quakes/volcanic eruptions in "the wrong place" (Japan, California a.o.) could do so much damage the global economy could collapse. 

Most scientists did not expect the 2011 M9 Japan quake to be possible. An M10 quake may be possible every 100/400 years according to some models. https://earthscience.stackexchange.com/questions/875/are-richter-magnitude-10-earthquakes-possible" rel="nofollow - https://earthscience.stackexchange.com/questions/875/are-richter-magnitude-10-earthquakes-possible .
(For Japan) once every 100.000 years an M10 could be possible http://enenews.com/kyodo-m10-quake-possible-says-study-an-hour-of-shaking-tsunami-lasting-for-several-days" rel="nofollow - http://enenews.com/kyodo-m10-quake-possible-says-study-an-hour-of-shaking-tsunami-lasting-for-several-days and http://enenews.com/asahi-japan-should-be-prepared-for-possibility-of-m10-quake-days-of-tsunamis-only-1-magnitude-below-asteroid-strike-video" rel="nofollow - http://enenews.com/asahi-japan-should-be-prepared-for-possibility-of-m10-quake-days-of-tsunamis-only-1-magnitude-below-asteroid-strike-video

Supervolcanos and mega-quakes DO mix. Climate change is a very major problem but "violent earth" can cause the sixth mass extinction, meteoritesstrike can. A global civil war can do so much damage humans will not survive it. (The 30 year war 1618-1648 killed 30% of the German population, the Korean war 1950-53 did see 15% of North Koreans killed. Even in Roman times wars could do so much damage that vast areas of land became unliveble due to lack of watersupplies, infrastructure.)


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Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 13 2017 at 3:20pm
Yes Fukushima still throwing out Millions of Rads ,everyday ,who Knows what damage on a cellular level 

thats doing not only to Humans, but to the wildlife,

i expecting Goddizzila to pop out of the Ocean ,

sorry if that seems a little Light hearted ,

but i am serious.......


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12 monkeys!!!!!


Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 13 2017 at 10:33pm
https://paulbeckwith.net/2017/07/14/abrupt-climate-mayhem-now-in-spite-of-main-stream-climatologist-posturing/" rel="nofollow - https://paulbeckwith.net/2017/07/14/abrupt-climate-mayhem-now-in-spite-of-main-stream-climatologist-posturing/ Paul Beckwith getting angry about scientists with all the pieces of the puzzle refusing to do their job. 

http://arctic-news.blogspot.nl/2017/07/wildfires.html" rel="nofollow - http://arctic-news.blogspot.nl/2017/07/wildfires.html

Of course less pressure from land-ice on Greenland and Antarctica means that that landmass will rise up-causing seismicpressure. Under Antarctica-proberbly also Greenland-may be volcanic areas that will get more active causing (sharp) increase in melt. 

In a worse case scenario sealevelrise globally could be "significant" in 24 hours after a major volcanic eruption in those areas. Glaciers/iceplates giving way will mean more landice moving faster into the ocean. 

Most nuclear reactors-needing cooling water-will get effected by climate change (drought=lack of cooling=fire, flooding=faillure of cooling mechanisms, radiation leak). 

I do not want to think to much about the future-lets enjoy the present !


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Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !


Posted By: FluMom
Date Posted: July 14 2017 at 9:20pm
Guys it is all due to too many people. Climate change and the rest of it is due to too many people. If we had a killer flu or something like that the world would be just fine.

I look at electric cars that are good for the environment and that electricity has to come from somewhere...coal, nuke, gas. Wind would be the only eclectic power that is clean and there is not enough of that.

So until we kill a bunch of people all over the world we will have problems.

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Always Be Prepared


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: July 15 2017 at 2:19am
Exactly!

Earth can, and does, heal from most things we do.  The big problems come from our numbers: it just can't heal fast enough.

We really do need a seriously nasty flu though.  There are about ten time as many of us as this planet can take.  It would have been better had we kept our numbers down by not breeding so much, by far the kinder option.  But, as we are not that smart, we can either die in huge numbers, ................................................... or die out.

What a stupid, unpleasant species we are.


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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 15 2017 at 5:12am
Most of the enviromental damage is done by a small group. About 10% of the people can be blamed for 90% of the damage. So it is a small group of people flying a lot, making a lot of miles in dirty cars, eating a lot of meat etc....that need to change their habbits !

We do not need flu, or IS, or anything else drastic to spread dead and destruction ! Just common sense can do most !

Personaly I feel that keeping the number of children limited is taking responsibility for their future. When you want to have children (and can get them) they deserve the best. 


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Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 15 2017 at 4:25pm
to much carbon in the atmosphere,is the problem, 

all the worlds GREATEST minds should be put together ,

in  the desert somewhere maybe in the Middle of Australia ,we could call it 

"Save Manhatten Project"

my point is they did it to produce a weapon that kills 100,000s

so instead of writing books on Quantum this or that  which wont mean jacks...t if the planet is unliveable get on with saving the planet we all call home ,

ill kick it off ,how about venting the Co2 into space theres a great big vacume cleaner out there 

a ring of satalites with graphene tubes that suck out the CO2 and vent it into space.....

or maybe we should just grow more trees ,and stop mining the dead forrests for fuel.....





 




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12 monkeys!!!!!


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 15 2017 at 5:45pm

Earth could become ‘practically ungovernable’ if sea levels keep rising, says former Nasa climate chief

Professor Jim Hansen says a carbon tax in which the proceeds were given to the public would leave the poorest 70 per cent better off

  • https://twitter.com/montaukian" rel="nofollow - @montaukian  
  • http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/earth-sea-levels-rising-nasa-climatechange-chief-jim-hansen-global-warming-melting-ice-antarctica-a7841026.html#commentsDiv" rel="nofollow -
https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FTheIndependentOnline%2F&width=450&layout=button&action=like&size=large&show_faces=false&share=false&height=35&appId=235586169789578" rel="nofollow -
- The Independent Online
https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FTheIndependentOnline%2F&width=450&layout=button&action=like&size=large&show_faces=false&share=false&height=35&appId=235586169789578" rel="nofollow">web-miami-aerial-get.jpgLow-lying Miami is particularly prone to flooding Getty

https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FTheIndependentOnline%2F&width=450&layout=button&action=like&size=large&show_faces=false&share=false&height=35&appId=235586169789578" rel="nofollow - The Earth could become “practically ungovernable” because of sea level rise, Nasa’s former head of climate research, Professor James Hansen, has warned.

https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FTheIndependentOnline%2F&width=450&layout=button&action=like&size=large&show_faces=false&share=false&height=35&appId=235586169789578" rel="nofollow - Professor Hansen, who was among the first scientists to alert politicians and the public to the risks posed by climate change, told  http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/scientist-jim-hansen-the-planet-could-become-ungovernable.html" rel="nofollow - However he said the biggest problem would be sea level rise. Professor Hanson was an author of a scientific paper published last year which warned that continued high fossil fuel emissions could increase sea levels by “several meters over a timescale of 50 to 150 years”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-doomsday-scenario-new-york-magazine-perpetual-war-rollnig-death-smog-critics-a7838991.html" rel="nofollow">
  • READ MORE

Climate change doomsday warning of death smog and endless war attacked

This is significantly higher than the latest expert report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which forecast a range from about 30cm to just under a metre, depending on emissions.

Asked to consider what the world would be like if the “scarier” projections of climate change for the end of the century became reality, Professor Hansen, former director of the Nasa Goddard Institute for Space Studies, said: “I don’t think we’re going to get four or five degrees this century, because we get a cooling effect from the melting ice. But the biggest effect will be that melting ice.

“In my opinion that’s the big thing – sea-level rise – because we have such a large fraction of people on coastlines, more than half of the large cities in the world are on coastlines.

“The economic implications of that, and the migrations and the social effects of migrations … the planet could become practically ungovernable, it seems to me.

READ MORE

  • http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/sea-levels-rising-triple-1990-melting-ice-caps-climate-change-greenhouse-gas-global-warming-a7750926.html" rel="nofollow - Sea levels are rising three times faster than in 1990, find scientists
  • http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/coral-reefs-rising-sea-levels-cannot-grow-fast-great-barrier-climate-change-ice-caps-melting-a7693106.html" rel="nofollow - Coral reefs 'can't grow fast enough to keep pace with rising seas'
  • http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-climate-change-mar-a-lago-florida-flooded-sea-level-rise-global-warming-winter-white-a7677596.html" rel="nofollow - Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate could be flooded due to climate change
  • http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/europe-floods-5-million-people-home-evacuate-sea-levels-rise-global-warming-sea-ice-melt-climate-a7629231.html" rel="nofollow - Millions of Europeans 'face being flooded out their homes every year'

“Once sea levels go up significantly, you won’t have stable shorelines. Just parts of the city will go under water, but then it doesn’t make sense to continue to build there … By the time you get to even one-meter rise, you’re going to be losing more land.”

The growing human population was a "problem", he said.

“That’s why you want to have energy that’s needed for people to eliminate poverty, because countries that have become wealthy have the population under control. But if you do begin to lose major cities [then] the planet becomes ungovernable,” Professor Hansen said.

But if the world did reach four or five degrees, the scientist said this would mean “the tropics and the subtropics are going to be practically uninhabitable”.

“It’s already becoming uncomfortable in the summers, in the subtropics, you can’t work outdoors. And agriculture, more than half of the jobs are outdoors,” he said.

Science news in pictures

  • He also reiterated the argument in favour of a carbon tax in which the proceeds were given back to the public – creating a windfall for more than two-thirds of the population.“If you made the price of fossil fuels honest by including a gradually rising carbon fee, then it actually spurs the economy and increases the GNP as you shift toward clean energies and energy efficiency. It creates potentially millions of jobs,” Professor Hansen said.“The way to spur the economy – to modernise the economy and modernise the energy structure – would be to give the money back to the public because a carbon fee is a progressive tax, in the sense that rich people have bigger carbon footprints.“So if you do give 100 per cent of the money to the public, 70 per cent of the public comes out ahead.”


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12 monkeys!!!!!


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: July 16 2017 at 7:47am
Originally posted by FluMom FluMom wrote:

Guys it is all due to too many people. Climate change and the rest of it is due to too many people.


Yep - it's us. It'd nice to think that we'll wise up in time and see we're on a crash course with a destiny we're not going to like, but apparently a large brain doesn't automatically endow a species with the capacity to act responsibly - not at first anyway. I fully expect our actions and apparent lack of foresight to result in a global human die-off like no other we've ever seen if mankind don't get past the self-destructive, petulant child stage, and fast.

The ironic thing is that we know all about the importance of properly controlling animal populations - with one glaring exception. As China has found out, simply limiting the number of children after the fact doesn't work because you end up with an aging population supported by a much smaller and younger workforce. Dubbed "The Gray Wall Of China", it's a demographic crisis that initially addressed the issue of population growth, but brings with it a whole host of potentially insurmountable problems. We're probably not going to like what awaits us, especially as much of it will be our fault.

FluMom is right - the harsh truth is that depopulation has to occur across the board to maintain a healthy ratio of age ranges within a species. On the plus side, as Techno pointed out, the planet will heal itself just fine despite our best efforts to screw it up. In a couple of million years, the damage we've caused will have been erased from the face of the Earth.














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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: July 16 2017 at 8:36am
That is exactly how I see it JD and FluMom.  

Hopefully we will make some robots to deal with our grey wall.  Even if not, then the grey wall would still be the better option.  Poor care in old age - VS - not reaching old age, ....... or even middle age.  China may still have some problems, (who doesn't?) but their economy is booming, their society is progressing, albeit slowly, and their people seem optimistic and reasonably happy.

I know which senario I prefer.


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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: July 16 2017 at 9:22am
That brings with it another conundrum - what do we do, if and when we develop mechanization to the point where robots can replace just about every worker? Automation has already been the death of many jobs associated with manufacturing. It sounds like a utopia, but it could go either way.

And the prospect of smart AI quite frankly scares the crap out of me. How would a machine with an IQ in the thousands or higher, view it's far more stupid squishy creators?






-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: July 16 2017 at 11:27am
Yes, new problems.

Robots do not need to be that bright.  They already build cars, run diagnostics for more systems than I can count and replace us is loads of jobs. AI may be coming but it still has a huge way to go (thank God!) they are fast but thick now.  Most nursing of the elderly is fairly simple stuff.  Washing, cooking, doing the laundry, doing the washing, walking the companion dog/cat.  The care workers who today travel around to do those things would just need to travel around checking the programs were appropriate and that the robot functioned ok.

Stealing our jobs? - Tax them, just like other workers.  If a robot makes $20k for the company per year, take $5k.  Use that money to fund welfare, medicaid and give grants to start new businesses and the like.  People can always invent new jobs to fill their days. Art, crafts, rescearch, space expansion, or even "Big Brother" if that floats their boat.

Being us, we will probably mess that up in some spectacular way too.  But, that does not need to be the case.  We just need a visionary like Steve Jobbs or Werner Von Braun to move into No10 here or The White House there.  

Sadly, assuming we survive the heat, sulphur, drowning, methane, unbreathable air, war, famine, hurricanes, acidification of the oceans and the spread of the plagues, I fully expect the rise of the machines, grey goo or the new Luddites.  Keep on fighting folks.  Not everyone is stupid or blind, just most.


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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: Satori
Date Posted: July 16 2017 at 2:02pm

Research Team Slams Global Warming Data In New Report: “Not A Valid Representation Of Reality… Totally Inconsistent With Credible Temperature Data”


http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/research-team-slams-global-warming-data-in-new-report-not-a-valid-representation-of-reality-totally-inconsistent-with-credible-temperature-data_07142017


this is above my pay grade

anyone know anything about it ?


and meanwhile

the ice continues to melt.....



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“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 16 2017 at 2:48pm
Terminator......funny how SF movies give us an insight to what might be.....

How about a mix of 12 Monkeys and the Terminator,where the AI develops and releases a very nasty Virus......

Leaves earth free of it's human infestation.......



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12 monkeys!!!!!


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: July 16 2017 at 4:17pm
Whereas there was some real science in that report, Satori, the conclusions reached ignored most of it.  To paraphrase the guy who never made it to president, all the inconvenient bits were ignored.  For instance; the Met Office data: did show lower overall temperatures - but it also showed the same increasing temperature pattern the report denies.

I looked up the researchers who compiled the report.

Dr. James P. Wallace III appears to be something of a pariah in scientific circles

Dr. Joseph S. D’Aleo Is a weatherman and as such must know something about the subject, however, everything I found about him, was written by him.  That does not give me much faith in his conclusions.

Dr. Craig D. Idso appears to have his research funded by Exon.  If that is not enough to judge his bias, then consider his most famous quote: "CO2 is not a polutant."  (In chemistry circles it is considered a toxin and a COT gas.)

None of them has claimed the Earth is flat, YET, just give them time.  That these idiots, liars, self publicists and pseudo-scientists (IMHO) still get quoted just proves how stupid our species really is.

It is true that the whole climate picture is massively complicated.  I am not sure the opposite arguments are wholly true either.  However, the weight of data and the collective of real scientific opinion does show an upward trend, which we contribute massively to.  How far this will go, how much damage will be done, whether or not we can mitigate it and whether or not it will kill all of us or just most is still to be shown.


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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: July 16 2017 at 9:37pm
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-07-16/elon-musk-artificial-intelligence-is-the-biggest-risk-that-we-face-as-a-civilization" rel="nofollow - https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-07-16/elon-musk-artificial-intelligence-is-the-biggest-risk-that-we-face-as-a-civilization





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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 19 2017 at 2:35pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment" rel="nofollow - Energy and Environment

Climate change will force today’s kids to pay for costly carbon removal technologies, study says

   mailto:harvey.chelsea.e@gmail.com?subject=Reader%20feedback%20for%20Climate%20change%20will%20force%20today%E2%80%99s%20kids%20to%20pay%20for%20costly%20carbon%20removal%20technologies,%20study%20says" rel="nofollow -

The longer humans continue to pour carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, the closer we draw to leaving the next generation with an unmanageable climate problem, scientists say. A  http://www.earth-syst-dynam.net/8/577/2017/" rel="nofollow - new study , just out Tuesday in the journal Earth System Dynamics, suggests that merely reducing greenhouse gas emissions may no longer be enough — and that special technology, aimed at removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, may also be necessary to keep the Earth’s climate within safe limits for future generations.

The research was largely inspired by a landmark climate change lawsuit brought by 21 children against the federal government, which is  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/07/05/__trashed/?utm_term=.316398a06c5d" rel="nofollow - scheduled to go to trial  in February 2018, and will be used as scientific support in the case. In fact, its lead author, Columbia University climatologist and former NASA scientist  http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/" rel="nofollow - James Hansen , is a plaintiff on the case, along with his now 18-year-old granddaughter.

The new paper argues that the Paris Agreement’s target of keeping global temperatures within 1.5 to 2 degrees Celsius (2.7 to 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) of their preindustrial levels isn’t strong enough. During a previous warm period in the Earth’s history, known as the Eemian, or the last interglacial period, the planet experienced similar levels of warming, the authors note — and the resulting consequences included the disintegration of ice sheets and six to nine meters of sea level rise. 

Noting the dramatic changes that occurred during the last interglacial period, the paper calls for a more stringent target of bringing atmospheric carbon dioxide levels down from their current concentration of more than 400 parts per million to about 350 parts per million by the end of the century. This would bring global temperature closer to a 1-degree threshold, rather than 1.5 or 2 degrees, the authors say.

But the study has already come in from some criticism from other scientists, such as Kevin Trenberth of the National Center for Atmospheric Research, who told The Washington Post that some aspects of the study were “alarmist” and that if changes come slowly enough, society will be able to adapt to them. Trenberth said he disagreed that the 1 degree target is justified and thinks that even 1.5 degrees is “unrealistic.”

Hansen is no stranger to controversy. In 2015, he and more than a dozen colleagues published a  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/07/23/controversial-sea-level-rise-paper-is-now-published-online/?utm_term=.529ab1f41b5e" rel="nofollow - highly contested paper  in the open-access journal Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics, suggesting that sea level rise may occur more rapidly in this century than previously predicted by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

In the new study, the researchers suggest that allowing temperatures to creep into the Eemian range once again could eventually trigger the onset of certain slow-developing climate processes that may ultimately enhance global warming, once again inducing catastrophic ice melt, sea level rise and other harmful climate effects. For instance, continued loss of ice may reduce the Earth’s reflectivity, they suggest, allowing more solar radiation to warm the planet’s surface and melt more ice.

But to keep temperatures lower, the paper finds, would require not only significant emissions reductions efforts, but also the use of “negative emissions” technology, or special methods for pulling carbon dioxide back out of the atmosphere.

Using models, the researchers suggest that if immediate and significant emissions reduction efforts are undertaken — amounting to a decline in global carbon output by at least 3 percent annually starting in the next four years — then less carbon extraction will be needed. A majority of it could be accomplished through basic changes in agricultural and forestry practices to promote greater storage of carbon in vegetation and soil.

On the other hand, the longer global greenhouse gas emissions are allowed to remain at high levels, the more carbon extraction will be needed to reach this target, requiring additional, costlier forms of technology. These may include the burning of biomass for energy, accompanied with carbon capture and storage technology, or technology that directly sucks carbon dioxide out of the air.

If humans immediately began reducing global greenhouse gas emissions by a relatively high rate of 6 percent each year, the researchers estimate that the carbon extraction technology needed to get down to 350 parts per million could cost anywhere from $8 trillion to nearly $18.5 trillion. And if no emissions reductions occur, these costs could rise above $500 trillion through the end of the century.

“Some consequences [of climate change] are already becoming inevitable, but as yet it could be moderate if we begin to reduce emissions rapidly,” Hansen said. “So that’s the objective — to try to get the global community to understand the importance of beginning those emissions reductions soon, and keeping the task that we’re leaving for young people one that they can manage.”

But Trenberth said of the paper that while “it is a good point that some slow feedbacks do not kick in until temperatures have been sustained at a certain level,” a great deal of the future human experience with climate change will depend not only on which thresholds we cross, but how quickly we cross them.

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“If we can slow things down then a lot of adaptation can occur,” he said.

Other researchers are a little more cautiously accepting of the paper’s points.

http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~cproist/" rel="nofollow - Cristian Proistosescu , a postdoctoral researcher at the University of Washington who was not involved with the new research (but who recently led a  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/07/05/scientists-are-starting-to-clear-up-one-of-the-biggest-controversies-in-climate-science/" rel="nofollow - major study , himself, on the potential future impact of slow-developing climate modes) expressed some skepticism about using the Earth’s ancient history as an analogy for the future.

He noted that some of the conditions that were true during the Eemian — the existence of large ice sheets that have already disappeared, for instance — are not the same now. And because humans have not been around to witness some of the slow-developing climate processes that scientists fear will intensify in the future, there’s uncertainty about how and even whether they will affect future climate change.

But that would be the wrong way to think about it,” he added in an email to The Post. “The more important point is that we cannot rule out the very real probability that there are slow feedbacks — and risk is probability times cost. … Once you start thinking in terms of risks I would concur with Dr. Hansen that the current trajectory presents some unacceptable risks.”



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12 monkeys!!!!!


Posted By: Dutch Josh
Date Posted: July 19 2017 at 11:47pm
http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/07/13/analysis/these-missing-charts-may-change-way-you-think-about-fossil-fuel-addiction" rel="nofollow - http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/07/13/analysis/these-missing-charts-may-change-way-you-think-about-fossil-fuel-addiction  

The use of fossil fuel is still increasing-even faster than before. So CO2 will keep going up, oceans can not absorp much more....


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Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: July 20 2017 at 9:20am
I'm literally at the point where I think climate change mitigation should be part of any serious prepper's long term preps. I think a world far different from ours is an unavoidable future in the next few decades, and you should realistically plan for it. Picking the right place to be is going to be the trick though - get out that crystal ball, and good luck.




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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: Satori
Date Posted: July 20 2017 at 2:40pm
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/20/1682393/-Of-course-he-did-Trump-picks-climate-science-denier-for-Ag-Department-s-top-science-post" rel="nofollow - Of course he did: Trump picked climate science denier for Ag Department's top science post

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/20/1682393/-Of-course-he-did-Trump-picks-climate-science-denier-for-Ag-Department-s-top-science-post

Trump going out of his way to appoint the worst people possible to every post in his failed administration
and doing everything he can to speed up the 6th extinction

IDIOT


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“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: July 20 2017 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

I'm literally at the point where I think climate change mitigation should be part of any serious prepper's long term preps. I think a world far different from ours is an unavoidable future in the next few decades, and you should realistically plan for it. Picking the right place to be is going to be the trick though - get out that crystal ball, and good luck.
Up a hill - sea levels will be rising and flash flooding will be more common,
With trees - they help prevent drought, stop landslides and provide fuel,
With strong structures - winds will rise and earthquakes increase (isostatic readjustment),
With seed that will grow further north (south for the southern hemisphere) and fruit trees that will thrive and produce in hotter temperatures than you face now,
Grow resistant strains - as in survival situations pesticides will be unavailable,
Have good storage - weather prediction may fail with "weather weirding" and you will need back up supplies some years,
Arm to protect what you have - but also cultivate a support network you can rely on.  Survival is easier in groups: that is why our ancestors lived in tribes.
Store some fungicides and learn some simple medicine.  The hotter it gets, the more you sweat, the more you sweat the more fungi love you!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Food:

Those of you who rely heavily on potatoes (great for limited space) go for the most blight resistant strain you can get and interplant it with ocu (ocu helps keep blight away and provides a fall-back starch source if the spuds fail.  Slugs hate them too.)  Move the crop each year and plant elsewhere.

If you garden at all, learn to polyploid your plants, they are stronger, better at resisting disease and more productive.

I am fascinated by medicine; especially nutrition: my husband is a botanical nut.  We have (after colossal research, trial and error and much arguing) come up with a minimum plant list for nutritional basics.

Whichever grain grows best in your area and any pea/bean/lentil you get the best crop from  Have a look at what the local farmers grow.  This will give you balanced protein and all the b vitamins (except 12).  If the legume you chose is a species of pea, the holmes can be fed to livestock and the tendrils and pods can be eaten too, increasing production in a limited space.

Oilseed rape (or better still kale) to provide green veg for both vitamin c (leaf) and oil (seed) get a red variety if you can as a source of beta carotene.  After pressing, the seed-cake makes an animal feed.

Sugar beet or beetroot, to supply gore sugar - this enables you to preserve the fruits of the wild plants in your area, or the produce of vineyards, orchards and the veggie plot (beta carotene).  Sugar cane works, but it fills the wrong role in a four crop rotation.  Any species of innula also works for this role, but less of the calories would be available to you.  Spuds can also fill the fourth role, but they cannot be used to make sugar for preserving, so you would also need a red or yellow veg that is clampable to provide the rest of the beta carotene if you go for spuds.

Those four plants can be used as a four crop rotation: keeping pests down and fertility up.  That simple process massively raised the yields and reliability of the farms of our ancestors.

There are two nutrients those plants fail to provide: vitamins d and b12.  Both can be supplied by the last crop: tempeh

Being a fungus, tempeh makes neither d nor b12 under normal circumstances.  However, as the culture is propagated year in year out, it develops accompanying bacterial cultures and these make b12.  Just like us, fungi make vitamin d to protect themselves from ultraviolet radiation.  So before cooking the tempeh you have just cut from the culture, put it out in the sunlight for an hour or so.

These basics are as boring as s**t and a more varied diet will be healthier, but you can survive on just them and a bit of foraging for the rest of your lives if necessary.  If pests eat your crops - eat the pests. SORRY!  

Caterpillars are not normally edible to us; chickens and ducks can eat them.  
Snails carry horrible diseases, so if you are going to eat them, keep them in a barrel of oatmeal for a day or too before eating and COOK THEM VERY WELL!  
Ducks can eat slugs without harm and they love them!  They will patrol your veggie plot for them and then lay eggs.  
Locusts are a particularly good food source.  If you have eaten them, as my husband has, they are quite pleasant and popular in some African countries.  
All birds are edible, but birds of prey carry nasty stuff and rot amazingly fast - best avoided.  
Cook any mammals very well to avoid  disease transmission.  The closer the relative, the more diseases you have in common.  That is why canibalism is such a stupid idea.
Be careful of river and near coastal fish (and the scavengers of those areas like seagulls) as they are quickly poisoned by polution and in a survival situation there will be no regulating bodies.





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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 20 2017 at 4:29pm
Been thinking of moving, here we live in a desert have somewhere in mind to protect my, future generations, Just have to talk to my now adult kids.....

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12 monkeys!!!!!


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: July 21 2017 at 1:58am
Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

Been thinking of moving, here we live in a desert have somewhere in mind to protect my, future generations, Just have to talk to my now adult kids.....
Smart Move! Clap

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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: Satori
Date Posted: July 26 2017 at 5:43pm

Corn Could Be Major Victim of Climate Change


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-26/corn-could-be-major-victim-of-climate-change


when food production starts to falter


tick tock......



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“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov


Posted By: Satori
Date Posted: July 26 2017 at 9:17pm

US climate scientist: I was pushed out

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/07/26/intv-amanpour-joel-clement.cnn/video/playlists/amanpour/


this is not the first story of this type to come out and it will be far from the last

people don't realize just how very dangerous Trump is and how much damage he will do




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“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: July 26 2017 at 9:24pm
I love tempeh, Techno. And as unappealing as it looks, my son has been a big fan since he was a toddler.




-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: Satori
Date Posted: July 27 2017 at 9:06pm

How the climate crisis could become a food crisis overnight

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/wonk/wp/2017/07/27/how-the-climate-crisis-could-become-a-food-crisis-overnight/


"Global food security depends on trade in just four crops: maize, wheat, rice and soybeans."






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“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov



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