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Should the Political Threads be moved from Main

Printed From: Avian Flu Talk
Category: General Discussion
Forum Name: Politics - Political Discussion
Forum Description: Political Discussion Forum; All about politics
URL: http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=36591
Printed Date: December 13 2018 at 4:22pm


Topic: Should the Political Threads be moved from Main
Posted By: Medclinician
Subject: Should the Political Threads be moved from Main
Date Posted: September 08 2017 at 8:06am
The whole flavor and feel of the AFT which I have coming to for near a decade has changed- one does lose track - has really evolved into a Social Justice battlefield. This board is not about politics - at least it didn't use to be. No one is posting how people should prep for the hurricanes or on the outbreaks of Flu or disease.

It is still bad in Australia, but I am the only one just about even covering it anywhere.

Perhaps the site needs a new name.

SJW Talk - Social Justice Warrior Talk

because really - that is what a lot of it has become.

Just saying.

Can we go back to being Avian Flu Talk?

Whether people like or hate Trump has nothing to do with Flu, being prepared for disaster, or anything we have been posting on since I began here.  What do you think, Albert?  It has been so long since we communicated.

Medclinician



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"not if but when" the original Medclinician



Replies:
Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: September 08 2017 at 8:39am
For goodness sake, Med have a sense of perspective, even if you can't manage a sense of proportion!  YOU started most of the political threads.  Now more people disagree with you than agree with you, so you want to drop the subject.  That is not the way discussion works.

Yes we are a flu site.  We also discuss anythiing at all which poses a threat to life or limb - which many people think includes Trump.  That is why neither I nor any of my fellow mods have moved the threads.  There are more than six thousand members of this site and we have regular visits from many guests as well.  If we get a significant number of complaints about the political discussion we will probably put it to the vote.  So far this is the third, that is less than 0.005% of our posters.

But for now, just be careful what other discussions you start, as they may not go your way.  This is a discussion forum and absolutely everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  I take my moderator duties seriously, and have read many of your historic posts from before I joined AFT.  To be honest you seem to be taking LESS flack these days (Reality Check, Mashadin and Technologist to name but a few).


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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: Medclinician
Date Posted: September 08 2017 at 11:19am
Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

For goodness sake, Med have a sense of perspective, even if you can't manage a sense of proportion!  YOU started most of the political threads.  Now more people disagree with you than agree with you, so you want to drop the subject.  That is not the way discussion works.

Yes we are a flu site.  We also discuss anythiing at all which poses a threat to life or limb - which many people think includes Trump.  That is why neither I nor any of my fellow mods have moved the threads.  There are more than six thousand members of this site and we have regular visits from many guests as well.  If we get a significant number of complaints about the political discussion we will probably put it to the vote.  So far this is the third, that is less than 0.005% of our posters.

But for now, just be careful what other discussions you start, as they may not go your way.  This is a discussion forum and absolutely everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  I take my moderator duties seriously, and have read many of your historic posts from before I joined AFT.  To be honest you seem to be taking LESS flack these days (Reality Check, Mashadin and Technologist to name but a few).


Yes, it is true I am less stalked which I was in real life for almost 8 years. The issues started here cost me my marriage, my family, my business, and left me homeless.  It is not nice to fool with the CDC or people in high government. I have yet to escape with my life.

Ever since I posted on the CDC being dishonest with the number 500,000 to 1,000,000 cases of Swine Flu in New York I have been watched and tracked. This is reality - and with the coming of Edward Snowden, we now know how bad it is. There is no privacy not only on the net, not  on your phone or even in your house. One close person to me, who tried to cover my back and truly cared, died of Swine Flu in 2014 in Chicago. They wouldn't even admit there was an epidemic. As far as stalking...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance" rel="nofollow - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance

This is nothing compared to the advanced viral researchers I saw in homeless shelters, many of whom later died. Even saw a hit list for over 2,000 people who were developing bio weapons. Most of them were killed.

I do have an ability to find interesting things and post them, but politics has become a racial, gender, alternate lifestyle warzone.

No this is nothing compared to the very aggressive trolls we had on here several years ago that would ruin every thread and go back and forth with a personal conversation totally off topic to ruin the thread.

I have been very proud of the team here on disease reporting, outbreaks and so forth.  I just was hoping - my threads would be moved as well - we could back to prepping and outbreaks. I realize there is huge traffic here now- and a lot of it comes from Facebook where I have posted this link many times.

Where is Albert?

Waves - are you still with us Albert?

Medclinician



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"not if but when" the original Medclinician


Posted By: ParanoidMom
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 4:39am
I figure i should chime in since I'm probably number two of the three who have complained 😀.

The advice I was given was to avoid any General Discussion thread. That's a lot to avoid! Plus, if I see certain people have posted a response in the News section, I avoid that thread as well. Some people just can't help themselves no matter what the subject.

So basically, I'm in such a minority that I don't count. It's obviously my problem. Would a political based section be welcome? Absolutely!!! Then people could debate,argue, console and basically blame politicians for everything to their heart's content. The likelihood that's going to happen is right up there with a snowball's survival in....well,you get the picture.

It's sad to see this site go this way. Nostalgia for the good old days can only carry you so far. It's a matter of adapt and overcome.

I wonder what Ginfin would have to say 😉?

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But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of the Lord
Wisdom of Solomon 3:1


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 11:01am
ParanoidMom - it'll calm down. It always does. As Techno mentioned, many of us still remember the brutal, knock-down fights that took place here in years past when there was no disease related news to discuss, and politics reared it's head. I can spend a little time and provide links if anyone needs their memory jogged, because I remember it being a lot uglier than this.

Med - if memory serves, there have been occasions in the past few years when you left the site because of the nature of the interactions here, and I don't think this is anywhere near as acrimonious. We've all weathered far worse. AFT is a good deal more civil these days, and I believe our current moderator group is responsible for that in no small part. They've fostered a different attitude in the past couple of years, and AFT has been more tightly focused on disease outbreaks than politics. Recent months are the exception, and hopefully not the rule.

That said, a lot - and I mean a lot - of recent threads have started with a distinct bias that has resulted in conflicting views being aired over multiple pages. Here's the thing, Med - you're the one starting many, if not most of those threads. I'm not saying that as a criticism, or to attempt to censor anyone, because I don't consider that to be my job. Like Techno, I take my role as moderator very seriously and try to walk a very narrow path between deliberately steering AFT in one direction, or doing too little to be of any use. Remember that none of us benefit in any meaningful way from inclusion
in the moderator group. Albert gave us certain privileges and
responsibilities, and an expectation that we behave in a certain way. In
many ways that sucks, because we all have political affiliations of one kind and another. Moderating ourselves while still exercising our freedom of speech feels like a tightrope at times, but it's necessary to keep the site useful and relevant. Whatever a "Social Justice Warrior" might be, AFT is in no way the intellectual property of any one group, and I think it does it an injustice to categorize it as such.

I try not to get too involved in the more heated discussions, because I don't want to give the appearance of a political slant for one simple reason - we're here to educate and empower people who feel the same way as we do, and to make them realize that their fears of some kind of societal collapse at the hands of a pandemic (or whatever you prep for) are indeed warranted and reasonable. That's everyone's responsibility - mods and regular members alike - and anyone using AFT as their own personal soapbox threatens that mission. Driving people away because of a perception that we lean too far
left or right serves no purpose, and potentially alienates people. Likewise, complaining that your thread is being ruined by others posting on it ignores one major point - we're all guests on equal footing here, and nobody should have any expectation of commenting exclusively. Post at your peril, and remember that you reap what you sow. And please don't expect the internet to be nice and respect your personal space above all others, because experience should have shown you by now that's it's not the case.

One more thing - demanding other people's credentials and questioning their right to post is not a road I think we need to go down. None of us (with maybe a few notable exceptions) share our real names or exact locations for a reason. Prepping is something that has to go on in the shadows to some extent and we need to respect that.

Unless it's gets really ugly, and someone breaches the accepted standard of behavior that we expect of everybody on AFT, I personally won't step in and censor anything. I do, however, ask that people respect this as a shared space, and not use it to espouse their own views at length.  There are no posting limits, but we're all adults and should be able to moderate ourselves. If you wake up with the burning need to educate everyone who doesn't agree with you, take a breath and consider whether you're ready for the potential backlash. Heat. Kitchen. That kind of thing.

Let's play nice, yeah?








-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: FluMom
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 11:03am
I have avoided this forum because of all the political whining. I say move them so that we do not see this as the first postings everyday. If they want to complain put them in an area they or others who want to do this is not on the forefront of this forum. Or better yet let them start their own Whining Forum about our President.

This is NOT the forum or area for political bitching and downing our President.

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Always Be Prepared


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 11:33am
- Nor singing his praises....................

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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 11:35am
Clap


-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 11:53am
Or both. Neither viewpoint should be given any more weight than the other.




-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: FluMom
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 2:42pm
It is time for Albert to decide if this is a political forum or a prep forum for any disaster that hits especially Avian Flu.

I can tell you that I for one am visiting this forum from several times a day before the election to after the election one time a week maybe. I use to enjoy the discussions about disasters look no one is even talking about the hurricanes like we would have since this forum has changed.

It is time Albert for you to decide where this forum goes.

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Always Be Prepared


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 3:22pm
what is Gerneral disscusion ,if not for airing general views,you cant stimey debate,

and  to take politics seriously on a site like this is slliy,

people will say things on here to "wind you up"

i take it all with a pinch of salt,

i take seriously the FLU chat. 

but even them i do my own checking as one should

if you dont like the post ,dont open the box......easy as that ,

and take a chill pill,

come the slate wiper you made end up with a load of democrates.......LOL   Cool   Wink


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12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: FluMom
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 3:33pm
Sorry but when I come to this forum and all I see in Latest Posts is My Fear when Trump takes office...etc. and it is all Trump haters and nothing else is in the Latest Posts. I go away and I do not read these posts. But it seems lately that is all I see in Latest Posts.

Anyone coming to this forum like now on how to survive after the hurricane is going to get met with political crap not what they need. Is this what this forum is about...Up To Albert!



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Always Be Prepared


Posted By: ParanoidMom
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 8:04pm
Well said Flumom. I've been around for awhile myself. I would visit two or three times a day whether there was anything major happening our not. And I distinctly remember some threads that would get pretty ugly and the moderators would step in and remind us all to play nice. It isn't always a pleasant thing to do but I think they do a pretty good job 😀.

Carbon20- you may not realize it but you made a very good point about the General Discussion area. But probably not the way you intended. "General" basically means everything that is not specific news. Sort of all encompassing. "Politics" is very specific. It's right up there with "Religion."

I clearly remember religion being one of those topics that could create a firestorm unbelievably fast. In fact, the moderators suggested the Off Topic area for such things. And they moved certain threads when the need arose. There were certain people at the time that would deliberately stir the pot because they were locked onto having their say no matter what. In other words, exactly what has been happening with the political views hijacking all of the General Discussion and some of the Latest News.

I don't believe anyone is asking the subject to be censored or blocked. We're just asking for it to go somewhere else so that when we scan the General Discussion area we're not bombarded with political views no matter what the original point to the posting was.

Trust me when I say when certain people post, everyone knows their opinion and political views. We can also tell just how important it is for them to continually make their views known. It is said that patience is a virtue. For months now I've personally been quietly waiting for the constant overstated opinions to die out. And while I might be in the minority, I can honestly say it would be wonderful if I could learn new things, discuss a variety of issues and not have to cringe at the thought of wading through political garbage to do it.



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But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of the Lord
Wisdom of Solomon 3:1


Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 9:08pm
Sorry to disagree....politics is ugly stuff, but it is directly related to what we discuss on this website. 

I've seen countless $millions of dollars wasted on H5N1 preparation = antiviral stockpiles that soon go out-of-date, NIOSH N-95 masks that are never replenished due to lack of political guidance, etc.  

Public health funding is a big football, and generally, Democrats seem to do better at it than Republicans. In the aftermath of 9/11 (happy anniversary, folks!) and the Anthrax-mail attacks (which originated within the public health system), the US Govt went crazy on funding all sorts of ill-conceived plans to protect the public - the Biowatch program, which should interest all of us, is a notorious example. 

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-biowatch-sg-storygallery.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-biowatch-sg-storygallery.html

I've tried to give Pres. Trump some props, but don't find that he's done much that is commendable for protection of the pubic.  The GOP has also been complicit.   For example: 

The authors write that the president's  https://medicalxpress.com/tags/budget+request/" rel="nofollow - budget request , released in May, would reduce the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's AMR funding by 14 percent and place it within the Prevention and Public Health Fund, which the administration is seeking to repeal. The budget would also cut National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases funding, reducing development of new antimicrobial drugs, diagnostics, and vaccines. In addition, a proposed 51 percent cut to the U.S. Agency for International Development's global health programs would drastically impair the agency's ability to support antimicrobial stewardship and infection prevention.



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CRS, DrPH


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 10 2017 at 9:31pm
Fair point Doc.

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12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 2:27am
We created a separate political sub-forum, which is now located at the top of General Discussion.  We will start relocating the political posts to the new forum shortly.  

It's about that time to make the switch as flu season approaches.  This is also upon numerous requests.

Feel free to share your opinion on this change. 

Best to all,

Albert


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https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk


Posted By: ParanoidMom
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 4:51am
What an amazing thing to wake up to! Thank you Albert!

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But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of the Lord
Wisdom of Solomon 3:1


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 7:09am
Just to give everyone a heads up, anything posted there will still show up in the latest posts. If there's a lot of traffic, we won't see much of a change in that respect.




-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: arirish
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 8:39am
I find it ironic and hypocritical that the folks who start most of the political posts now want them moved! If they don't like them why do they post them? This happens every year and as Albert says "as flu season approaches" we'll all get back to why we came here in the first place! I think Chuck is right though, how do you separate what is politically relevant from what is purely political? Thankfully we have a great group of Mods but this just made their work a little harder!

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Buy more ammo!


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 8:45am
Quite a bit harder!  I have tried to move a fairly old political thread.  I lost most of it!  I told Albert and asked how to do it.  

I still don't know.  

I am out all day tomorrow, so I can't do anything till Wednesday.  I don't suppose anyone who asked for the move would like to try and do this...............................


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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 9:29am
Thanks to our excellent Mods and administrators!!  I think this is an instructive time to review how politics and public health policy can conflict, to the detriment of all of us.  

I'm pleased that Pres. Trump successfully nominated SCOTUS Gorsuch, as this will protect our right to bear arms, at least for a while.  Clap  An armed, educated, well-informed public will be essential to survival. 

I'm plugged into all sorts of disaster/pandemic channels and will report if anything "pops."  So far, the US seems reasonably secure, but that could change in seconds. 

Don't forget to honor our dead and our heroes from the 9/11 attacks....I see that the news media are largely ignoring this anniversary.  Perhaps that is a good thing.


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CRS, DrPH


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 10:23am
Agreed, Chuck. We're seeing agencies that will be instrumental in dealing with outbreaks gutted to fund projects like the border wall.
Like the song says, you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone. Politics and pandemics are unfortunately inextricably linked.





-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 10:28am
Thanks my friends!  And thanks to the mods for their hard work in this.

Med my good friend- you can't be upset about this as this is what you wanted. 

On another note, best thing about Hurricane Irma is that I can actually watch the news and it doesn't have anything to do with Donald Trump Jr and the Russian this from last year.  It's hard to watch the news these days without hearing about Trump and Russia, which is a total waste of time in my opinion.



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https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 2:21pm
the point being it wont stop the threads,will it stop you looking  or comenting on them ? 

therefore whats the point ,

it seems blatently honest to say some dont like the truth when presented in a way they cant argue against,

therfore they like it somewhere near the back pages where no one will pay  any attention,

you cant just shove Chumps Ineptitude in a cuboard and hope nobody sees or hears.....

                                                  BIG BROTHERS WATCHING YOU

                                                                        Evil Smile


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12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 5:24pm
You can post it in General Discussion, but you guys now have your own political forum as well. The political post will probably be moved from GD to the correct forum (upon the Mods discretion).  The whole idea is to limit Trump posts to only a couple of threads around here, and your own forum. 

   


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https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk


Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 11 2017 at 5:30pm
You can also post global events in GD, such as those with North Korea, etc ....   And all topics that you feel are important.    This change was only for the political topics.   Regardless, if you feel that it's important enough to post it in the GD forum,  please just do your best to make sure it's important enough.    


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https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk


Posted By: Medclinician
Date Posted: September 12 2017 at 3:33am
Originally posted by Albert Albert wrote:

Thanks my friends!  And thanks to the mods for their hard work in this.

Med my good friend- you can't be upset about this as this is what you wanted. 

On another note, best thing about Hurricane Irma is that I can actually watch the news and it doesn't have anything to do with Donald Trump Jr and the Russian this from last year.  It's hard to watch the news these days without hearing about Trump and Russia, which is a total waste of time in my opinion.



Hello Albert.  I am much relieved to hear from you. Have lost a lot of people lately, almost myself, and am glad you were not one of them.

I think the Pandemic boat for now has sunk. Perhaps it will rise once more since it is inevitable we will have another is not several, but the raging discussions of the media and the world for a discussion board are not on disease.

Perhaps this has kept AFT alive through a vacuum of disease news, and at times I feel a little guilty looking over my multiple threads with some many readers on here. I never mean to have such a presence on your site. I do have my own site on Facebook and the net, but I guess I do feel a part of the family here, and despite everything, keep coming back to post.

I have noticed since the political posts started the number of people reading here has rose to record highs I have never seen before.

I know I have plugged this site on Facebook and my homepage and there are many Facebook users who have followed the links to here.

Perhaps we should add to the never avoidable death and taxes - politics.

No doubt Ebola will rise again as well any number of devastating viruses and plagues which will sweep the globe - not if, but when.

Medclinican


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"not if but when" the original Medclinician


Posted By: Medclinician
Date Posted: September 12 2017 at 10:40am
Thank you. I see you did move them.  I think it was a good idea and thank for following through on it.

Med


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"not if but when" the original Medclinician


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: September 12 2017 at 10:42am
I moved as many as I had time for earlier, Techno. I'll show you how when I get a chance. Took a little while, and sometimes the line is so blurred that it's a judgement call as to whether it stays in GD, or gets moved to the new political section.





-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: September 12 2017 at 10:53am
Originally posted by Medclinician Medclinician wrote:

I think the Pandemic boat for now has sunk.


Erm....not really, Med. If anything, health organizations worldwide are even more concerned about a pandemic. In twelve months, H7N9 moved from a completely benign, asymptomatic virus in birds, to one that will kill all the chickens in a flock in days. It's ability to infect humans is becoming demonstrably more refined, and it's geographical spread is increasing. We're closer now than in recent years.




-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 25 2017 at 3:08pm


"Erm....not really, Med. If anything, health organizations worldwide are even more concerned about a pandemic. In twelve months, H7N9 moved from a completely benign, asymptomatic virus in birds, to one that will kill all the chickens in a flock in days. It's ability to infect humans is becoming demonstrably more refined, and it's geographical spread is increasing. We're closer now than in recent years."


[/QUOTE]

more interest in Trump at the moment,but you right Jacksdad ,

very close,and the antibiotic resistance thing very very scary,

more scary than  a Pandemic as its happening NOW


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12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: September 25 2017 at 3:48pm
The end of the so-called golden age of antibiotics is a daunting prospect. Learn all you can about natural remedies, and stopping infections before they go systemic. Topic for a thread, maybe? That's the kind of info that could definitely save lives.


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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: September 25 2017 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

The end of the so-called golden age of antibiotics is a daunting prospect. Learn all you can about natural remedies, and stopping infections before they go systemic. Topic for a thread, maybe? That's the kind of info that could definitely save lives.

Thanks, JD!  Modern agriculture is largely responsible for the proliferation of MDR organisms.  

The Chinese agricultural death star:

http://www.chinaeconomicreview.com/growth-addiction" rel="nofollow - http://www.chinaeconomicreview.com/growth-addiction

Growth addiction

Antibiotics abuse makes China's pork industry a hotbed for drug-resistant bugs



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CRS, DrPH


Posted By: FluMom
Date Posted: September 25 2017 at 7:59pm
China is the culprit in global warming that is why the Paris Accord is a bunch of crap. China is let out of doing anything about co2 emissions for many years from now and China is the worst offender!   China is bad all the way around!

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Always Be Prepared


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 3:38am
You cannot possibly blame one country for climate change,

The 6 billion people we have put on this planet in the last 200years have done the damage,

Along with all the cars,planes,engine driven ships,that WE all use,

And if you ever look at the carbon footprint of an average American it far far exceeds anything an average China man
Puts out ,

Please get your facts right.......



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12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 3:48am
Carbon is correct there.  America is a far worse producer of co2 than China.


We are all guilty to varying extents of the antibiotic abuse thing, but China DOES bear the lion's share of that blame.  Their farming methods are immoral, stupid and dangerous.


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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 4:04am
I disagree,we all to blame,here you go to doctor for anything,they prescribe antibiotics,some animal producers will give more antibiotics,as it can increase the weight of the beast by 1/3rdl,so to say China's farmers are the main cause of resistance is not fair, again WE all guilty as far as I'm concerned,

I agree that China needs to get control of there problem but that's never going to happen.

The last time I took an antibiotic was 25years ago, who on here can say the same ?

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12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 7:19am
Total and per capita co2 emissions for 2015:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China" rel="nofollow - China 10,641,78929.51%7.7
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States" rel="nofollow - United States 5,172,33814.34%16.1
So, overall the US produces less co2 than China, BUT, per capita, it produces almost double.  Or putting it another way, China has 4 times the population, but only produces double the CO2; half as much per person.

Additionally, America was industrialized long before China.  They have, over many decades, put more CO2 out there already.  That prior contribution set up their infrastructure.  China is later to innovate and industrialize.  They have some catching-up to do.  If the climate accord really wanted to be fair, they should be allowed to produce double the US's output whilst they put their infrastructure in place for posterity.  But, partly because the creation of infrastructure itself has become more carbon-friendly and partly because they are being very fair about things, they have agreed to lower their emissions alongside the rest of us.

Ah well, the global-warming-intensified hurricanes are already coming home to roost.  It is starting to look as if the first/worst backlash is going to be upon the first level poluters.  You reap what you sow.  For what it is worth, I would rather see everyone escape the coming storm.

Source:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions


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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 2:57pm

CO2 emissions (metric tons per capita)

Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center, Environmental Sciences Division, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Tennessee, United States.
License:  https://data.worldbank.org/summary-terms-of-use" rel="nofollow -

All Countries and Economies

Country
1960
2014
Afghanistan
0.0
0.3
Albania
1.3
2.0
Algeria
0.6
3.7
American Samoa
Andorra
5.8
Angola
0.1
1.3
Antigua and Barbuda
0.7
5.4
Argentina
2.4
4.7
Armenia
1.9
Aruba
8.4
Australia
8.6
15.4
Austria
4.4
6.9
Azerbaijan
3.9
Bahamas, The
3.7
6.3
Bahrain
3.5
23.4
Bangladesh
0.5
Barbados
0.7
4.5
Belarus
6.7
Belgium
9.9
8.3
Belize
0.5
1.4
Benin
0.1
0.6
Bermuda
3.6
8.8
Bhutan
1.3
Bolivia
0.3
1.9
Bosnia and Herzegovina
6.2
Botswana
3.2
Brazil
0.6
2.6
British Virgin Islands
6.1
Brunei Darussalam
4.1
22.1
Bulgaria
2.8
5.9
Burkina Faso
0.0
0.2
Burundi
0.0
Cabo Verde
0.1
0.9
Cambodia
0.0
0.4
Cameroon
0.1
0.3
Canada
10.8
15.1
Cayman Islands
1.4
9.2
Central African Republic
0.1
0.1
Chad
0.0
0.1
Channel Islands
Chile
1.7
4.7
China
1.2
7.5
Colombia
1.0
1.8
Comoros
0.1
0.2
Congo, Dem. Rep.
0.2
0.1
Congo, Rep.
0.2
0.6
Costa Rica
0.4
1.6
Cote d'Ivoire
0.1
0.5
Croatia
4.0
Cuba
1.9
3.0
Curacao
37.7
Cyprus
1.5
5.3
Czech Republic
9.2
Denmark
6.5
5.9
Djibouti
0.5
0.8
Dominica
0.2
1.9
Dominican Republic
0.3
2.1
Ecuador
0.4
2.8
Egypt, Arab Rep.
0.6
2.2
El Salvador
0.2
1.0
Equatorial Guinea
0.1
4.7
Eritrea
Estonia
14.8
Ethiopia
0.0
0.1
Faroe Islands
1.7
12.2
Fiji
0.5
1.3
Finland
3.4
8.7
France
5.8
4.6
French Polynesia
0.5
2.9
Gabon
0.3
2.8
Gambia, The
0.0
0.3
Georgia
2.4
Germany
8.9
Ghana
0.2
0.5
Gibraltar
2.0
15.5
Greece
1.1
6.2
Greenland
6.9
9.0
Grenada
0.2
2.3
Guam
Guatemala
0.3
1.2
Guinea
0.1
0.2
Guinea-Bissau
0.0
0.2
Guyana
1.2
2.6
Haiti
0.1
0.3
Honduras
0.3
1.1
Hong Kong SAR, China
1.0
6.4
Hungary
4.5
4.3
Iceland
6.9
6.1
India
0.3
1.7
Indonesia
0.2
1.8
Iran, Islamic Rep.
1.7
8.3
Iraq
1.1
4.8
Ireland
4.0
7.4
Isle of Man
Israel
3.1
7.9
Italy
2.2
5.3
Jamaica
0.9
2.6
Japan
2.5
9.5
Jordan
0.8
3.0
Kazakhstan
14.4
Kenya
0.3
0.3
Kiribati
0.6
Korea, Dem. People’s Rep.
1.6
Korea, Rep.
0.5
11.6
Kosovo
Kuwait
28.9
25.2
Kyrgyz Republic
1.6
Lao PDR
0.0
0.3
Latvia
3.5
Lebanon
1.4
4.3
Lesotho
1.2
Liberia
0.1
0.2
Libya
0.5
9.2
Liechtenstein
1.2
Lithuania
4.4
Luxembourg
36.7
17.4
Macao SAR, China
0.3
2.2
Macedonia, FYR
3.6
Madagascar
0.1
0.1
Malawi
0.1
Malaysia
8.0
Maldives
3.3
Mali
0.0
0.1
Malta
1.0
5.5
Marshall Islands
1.9
Mauritania
0.0
0.7
Mauritius
0.3
3.4
Mexico
1.7
3.9
Micronesia, Fed. Sts.
1.4
Moldova
1.4
Monaco
Mongolia
1.4
7.1
Montenegro
3.6
Morocco
0.3
1.7
Mozambique
0.3
0.3
Myanmar
0.1
0.4
Namibia
1.6
Nauru
4.0
Nepal
0.0
0.3
Netherlands
6.4
9.9
New Caledonia
10.9
16.0
New Zealand
4.9
7.7
Nicaragua
0.3
0.8
Niger
0.0
0.1
Nigeria
0.1
0.5
Northern Mariana Islands
Norway
3.7
9.3
Oman
15.4
Pakistan
0.3
0.9
Palau
1.5
12.3
Panama
0.9
2.3
Papua New Guinea
0.1
0.8
Paraguay
0.2
0.9
Peru
0.8
2.0
Philippines
0.3
1.1
Poland
6.7
7.5
Portugal
0.9
4.3
Puerto Rico
Qatar
3.7
45.4
Romania
2.9
3.5
Russian Federation
11.9
Rwanda
0.0
0.1
Samoa
0.1
1.0
San Marino
Sao Tome and Principe
0.2
0.6
Saudi Arabia
0.7
19.5
Senegal
0.3
0.6
Serbia
5.3
Seychelles
5.4
Sierra Leone
0.3
0.2
Singapore
0.8
10.3
Sint Maarten (Dutch part)
19.5
Slovak Republic
5.7
Slovenia
6.2
Solomon Islands
0.1
0.4
Somalia
0.0
0.0
South Africa
5.6
9.0
South Sudan
0.1
Spain
1.6
5.0
Sri Lanka
0.2
0.9
St. Kitts and Nevis
0.2
4.3
St. Lucia
0.2
2.3
St. Martin (French part)
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
0.1
1.9
Sudan
0.1
Suriname
1.5
3.6
Swaziland
0.1
0.9
Sweden
6.6
4.5
Switzerland
3.7
4.3
Syrian Arab Republic
0.7
1.6
Tajikistan
0.6
Tanzania
0.1
0.2
Thailand
0.1
4.6
Timor-Leste
0.4
Togo
0.0
0.4
Tonga
0.2
1.1
Trinidad and Tobago
3.0
34.2
Tunisia
0.4
2.6
Turkey
0.6
4.5
Turkmenistan
12.5
Turks and Caicos Islands
6.1
Tuvalu
1.0
Uganda
0.1
0.1
Ukraine
5.0
United Arab Emirates
0.1
23.3
United Kingdom
11.2
6.5
United States
16.0
16.5
Uruguay
1.7
2.0
Uzbekistan
3.4
Vanuatu
0.6
Venezuela, RB
7.0
6.0
Vietnam
0.2
1.8
Virgin Islands (U.S.)
West Bank and Gaza
Yemen, Rep.
0.7
0.9
Zambia
0.3
Zimbabwe
0.8
World
3.1
5.0
Arab World
0.6
4.9
Caribbean small states
1.4
8.9
Central Europe and the Baltics
5.1
6.1
East Asia & Pacific
1.2
6.3
East Asia & Pacific (excluding high income)
1.0
5.8
Euro area
6.5
Europe & Central Asia
6.9
Europe & Central Asia (excluding high income)
7.4
European Union
5.8
6.4
Fragile and conflict affected situations
0.3
0.9
Heavily indebted poor countries (HIPC)
0.1
0.3
Latin America & Caribbean
1.3
3.1
Latin America & Caribbean (excluding high income)
1.3
2.9
Least developed countries: UN classification
0.1
0.3
Middle East & North Africa
1.0
6.2
Middle East & North Africa (excluding high income)
0.9
3.9
North America
15.5
16.4
OECD members
7.3
9.5
Other small states
0.6
7.5
Pacific island small states
0.4
1.1
Small states
0.9
7.4
South Asia
0.2
1.5
Sub-Saharan Africa
0.6
0.8
Sub-Saharan Africa (excluding high income)
0.6
0.8
High income
7.6
11.0
Low & middle income
1.1
3.5
Low income
0.3
Lower middle income
0.4
1.5
Middle income
1.1
3.9
Upper middle income
1.7
6.6



-------------
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 26 2017 at 3:20pm
the Arabs are the main culprits,but they do produce all the petrol products ..............,


                                            WE ALL USE


-------------
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT



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