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Mecca flu outbreak??

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URL: http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=38447
Printed Date: March 28 2024 at 3:51am


Topic: Mecca flu outbreak??
Posted By: cobber
Subject: Mecca flu outbreak??
Date Posted: September 05 2018 at 9:14am
Hi Guys been a while.
Noticed this... anyone else think its odd?
We have discused the Mecca flu threat in the past

http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7184226/emirates-plane-quarantined-at-jfk-after-100-people-suddenly-complain-of-feeling-ill-in-mid-air/" rel="nofollow - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7184226/emirates-plane-quarantined-at-jfk-after-100-people-suddenly-complain-of-feeling-ill-in-mid-air/

MILE HIGH PANIC Emirates plane quarantined at JFK after ‘100 people suddenly fall ill with fevers and coughs’ on board



Replies:
Posted By: debg
Date Posted: September 05 2018 at 9:38am
MERS???


Posted By: DeepThinker
Date Posted: September 05 2018 at 11:03am
Another case of bad reporting...   only 10 people can be confirmed sick and all those without symptoms where allowed to continue their travel plans.

That being said this is something to keep an eye on.   Is there any evidence of a flu outbreak where this plan originated from?


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: September 05 2018 at 2:01pm
Unlikely that all of those people boarded the plane already sick, and highly doubtful they contracted something after boarding that would produce symptoms this quickly. I think it's a combination of something simpler like food poisoning and a touch of mass hysteria.



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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: September 05 2018 at 3:13pm
[I suspect JD and DeepThinker are corect and this is a storm in a teacup. But just in case, here is a fairly detailed article.]

Passengers taken to hospital after feeling ill on an Emirates flight from Dubai to New York

HEALTH workers have descended on JFK airport where at least 100 passengers complained of “feeling ill” on a flight from Dubai.

AS many as 100 passengers and crew reported feeling ill during an Emirates flight from Dubai to New York, with health workers evaluating them as the plane sat on the tarmac of JFK International Airport, authorities said.

About 100 people complained of feeling sick on Emirates Flight 203, which landed with at least 521 passengers shortly after 9am local time (11pm AEST) on Wednesday at John F. Kennedy International Airport, the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said in a statement.

Nineties pop star Vanilla Ice, who was on the plane, tweeted: “This is crazy. Apparently there is over 100 people sick on the bottom floor, so happy I’m up top, it’s a double-decker plane 380.”

Nineties pop star Vanilla Ice, who was on the plane, tweeted: “This is crazy. Apparently there is over 100 people sick on the bottom floor, so happy I’m up top, it’s a double-decker plane 380.”

“Jamaica Hospital is working closely with all City, State and Federal agencies.”

Earlier, the pilot reported that two male passengers had very high fevers and that dozens were “coughing non-stop”, according to ABC News.

However, the US Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, which met the plane on arrival, said about 100 of the 520 people aboard the plane were being evaluated after complaining of illness, including cough and fever.

The aircraft was taken to a location away from the terminal so that emergency officials could evaluate the situation, officials from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey said in a statement.

Meanwhile, passenger Larry Coben tweeted images of ambulances and firetrucks on the tarmac surrounding the giant aircraft.

“They have told us people are sick but have seen no evidence,” Mr Coben, an archaeologist and founder of the Sustainable Preservation Initiative, posted on Twitter.

Passenger Erin Sykes posted video of officials wearing masks and gloves taking the temperature of passengers on the tarmac.

In an interview, Ms Sykes said she saw a few passengers being taken off the plane first for medical attention, but she added that “many, many” others were showing signs of illness.

“Very intense coughing. Violently sick. Going into the bathroom a lot,” she said when asked to describe the scene.

White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders said they were monitoring the situation and President Donald Trump was being updated as new information became available.

The aeroplane involved was a double-deck Airbus A388 - the world’s largest passenger aircraft - according to FlightAware.com.

CDC public health officers worked with other agencies to evaluate passengers, including taking temperatures and making arrangements for transport to hospitals, spokesman Benjamin Haynes said in the statement. Passengers who were not ill were allowed to continue with their travel plans, he said.

Source, photos and tweets:    https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/dozens-of-passengers-have-reported-feeling-seriously-ill-on-an-emirates-flight-from-new-york-to-dubai/news-story/0a9e736a59d38cf4b8c51d5d7d7a723e" rel="nofollow - https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/dozens-of-passengers-have-reported-feeling-seriously-ill-on-an-emirates-flight-from-new-york-to-dubai/news-story/0a9e736a59d38cf4b8c51d5d7d7a723e


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His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 05 2018 at 5:13pm
Unless it was a mass exodus from the country of people running for their lives and they were already sick. Well, that may be a stretch. Only infecting the lower half of plane of plane is a little odd.    

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Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 05 2018 at 7:31pm
Apparently it is the flu. 9 hospitalized?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/05/emirates-flight-carrying-dozens-sickened-passengers-lands-at-jfk-airport-reports-say.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/05/emirates-flight-carrying-dozens-sickened-passengers-lands-at-jfk-airport-reports-say.html

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Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 05 2018 at 7:34pm
I should also add, in the article in previous post, some people refused treatment and I guess they were sent home. Hope it's not just day one of symptoms. I've never really heard of a flu outbreak on a plane like this before. They must have boarded sick, unless it's a super bug. Pretty strange situation.

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Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: September 05 2018 at 9:34pm
Keep in mind that many terror agents including botulinum toxin, anthrax etc. notoriously behave like flu at first, hence the term ILI ("influenza like illness") in our BT preparedness work.

Considering the source of the plane, its destination, and other factors (hajjis from Mecca?) I can understand the caution of all involved.

Also, this could be a way that MERS breaks out to the world. SARS broke out in similar fashion. It is a fascinating story. RIP Doctor Carlo Urbani, who gave his life by staying at his station and fighting this illness.



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CRS, DrPH


Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: September 05 2018 at 10:01pm
The BBC report talked of 19 ill and 11 sent to hospital. But it also stated
Quote In a statement, the CDC said: "Approximately 100 passengers, including some crew on the flight, complained of illness including cough, fever, and symptoms of gastrointestinal illness.

It said that after completing health evaluations on everyone on board, 538 passengers had been released and 11 people were taken to a local hospital for care......

A spokesman for New York's mayor, Bill de Blasio, said that some of the passengers had originally come from the Saudi Arabian city of Mecca, which was currently experiencing a flu outbreak, and that the passengers' symptoms were "pointing to the flu".


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45425412" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45425412

Too early to panic, but it does seem a very very quick spread for 100 passengers and crew to be affected. Unless, as some indicated, there is a hint of hysteria in the mix, or even a case or or two of "I will pretend to be ill and sue the airline."


Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 06 2018 at 3:44am
A flu with an incubation period of several hours, or any disease for that matter, is not really possible, at least not with any "regular" flu. MERS has an incubation of 2-14 days.   

It would have to be only a few different scenarios. One, they boarded while already being sick, and there is currently a big outbreak at Mecca, or it's norovirus. Norovirus would be very rare on a plane, but it makes the most amount of sense given the incubation, symptoms, and rapid spread. Worst case of course that it's a new super-flu and it's a doomsday scenario, lol.

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Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 06 2018 at 3:57am
Looks like they are testing for MERS. That could be a real bad scenario it that was the case.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/05/health/new-york-plane-jfk-passengers-ill/index.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/05/health/new-york-plane-jfk-passengers-ill/index.html

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Posted By: debg
Date Posted: September 06 2018 at 6:43am
This is a little concerning, given the time line and that he was on a plane....

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/23/health/mers-england-case-intl/index.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/23/health/mers-england-case-intl/index.html


Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 06 2018 at 8:13am
If it's MERS, heads will roll at the CDC for letting those with symptoms to continue on their travels, of which I believe 9 had symptoms, but refused treatment.

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Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 06 2018 at 10:32am
Looks like Flu has been CONFIRMED. Test on MERS and others are currently inconclusive.

Now we just need to make sure it's seasonal flu, and not a variant of, or new flu bug, or avian flu, and all is good. And since MERS is known to piggyback off flu, we just need conclusive results on all the above.

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/09/06/emirates-passengers-test-positive-for-the-flu/" rel="nofollow - https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/09/06/emirates-passengers-test-positive-for-the-flu/






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Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 06 2018 at 1:01pm
Clearly they boarded plane while sick, although, that many is extremely odd. If they didn't board while sick, then it's a super-pandemic unfolding lol. The passengers on lower half of jet as the only ones infect is odd and would seem like human transmission, but that could also be a coincidence.

If its a new flu, and that contagious and virulent, the plan is simple.   When the stores die down at night with limited human contact, stock up.   

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Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 06 2018 at 1:16pm
Since Flu is now confirmed, we are narrowed down to a few scenarios. Keep in mind, this whole thing is already bizarre enough lol.


Given the virulence and rate of spread, the possible scenarios can be listed on a very short list.

1.) People overly panicking and going to hospital for no reason.

2.) MERS coinfection and piggybacking off flu causing the virulence, which is somewhat common.

3.) New flu (A super-flu)


I personally think it's option one, but still that many infected on a plane is truly bizarre, but hopefully that is the case.


Feel free to comment.


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Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: September 06 2018 at 1:28pm
This is really odd. Definitely one to keep a close eye on. Both scenarios are disturbing - that many people either boarding sick, or getting sick during the course of the flight.



-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: debg
Date Posted: September 06 2018 at 1:32pm
I just find the whole thing unsettling. The passengers getting on board sick - maybe, but I find it odd that 7 of the crew members with it as well are all reporting for work? Something is very weird with the situation....I hope you are right Albert.



Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 06 2018 at 2:00pm
Quite honestly, all of the scenarios are so very rare (or never been seen), it's a crapshoot.

No info on the people hospitalized, no info on sequencing flu to determine which one, inconclusive results on other possible coinfections (MERS), etc....

Pretty sure they have most of the answers at this point. "Inconclusive" results may be a little telling. That would mean they are confirming a couple things.   

The CDC should never have let the people with symptoms continue traveling given the oddity of the circumstances.

Again - these things "usually" turn out to be okay. If that is the case, then we have to add this one to the playbook.   

Although, all pandemic models do show the next pandemic surfacing in either Ney York, L.A or Canada.




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Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 06 2018 at 2:37pm
Passengers on flight from Middle East sought after patient diagnosed with deadly camel flu in Leeds
Save
21
MERs
The virus that causes MERS can be spread when someone is in close contact with a patient for a sustained period of time CREDIT: SCIENCE HISTORY IMAGES/ALAMY

Laura Donnelly, health editor
23 AUGUST 2018 • 12:36PM
Follow
A man has been diagnosed with the deadly Middle East Respiratory Syndrome in England - the first such diagnosis in this country since 2013.

Health officials said the case involves a patient who was initially admitted to a hospital in Leeds before being transferred to Royal Liverpool Hospital, which treats respiratory infectious diseases.

The man is believed to have fallen ill after flying to Britain from the Middle East, where he lives.

Officials are now attempting to contact a number of passengers who sat near the man on his flight to the UK.

Public Health England (PHE) said the risk of transmission to the general population from this case is very low.

Typically MERS symptoms include fever, cough and shortness of breath. Around a third of reported patients with MERS worldwide have died.

People without symptoms are not considered infectious but, as a precaution, those who have been in close proximity will be contacted and monitored to ensure that if they do become unwell they can be treated quickly, officials said.

The virus has been dubbed "camel flu" because of evidence that humans could contract it from infected camels. However, there are concerns that it can also be spread betwen humans and via airborne transmission.

Public Health England is following up those who have had close and sustained contact with the patient to offer advice and to monitor them as necessary
Dr Jenny Harries
MERS-CoV (the virus that causes MERS) can be spread when someone is in close contact with a patient for a sustained period of time, officials said. They said this means there is a very low risk to the general population of becoming ill.

PHE said: "As a precautionary measure, PHE experts are working closely with NHS colleagues to advise them on infection control measures. They will be contacting people who might have been in close contact with the individual to monitor their symptoms and provide health advice. This will include contacting a number of passengers who travelled in close proximity to the patient on the same flight to the UK.

Dr Jenny Harries, Deputy Medical Director at Public Health England, said: “A patient in hospital in Liverpool is being treated for Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus (Mers-CoV) infection. The patient is thought to have contracted the infection whilst in the Middle East before travelling to the UK.

"Public Health England is following up those who have had close and sustained contact with the patient to offer advice and to monitor them as necessary.

“It is important to emphasise that although a case has been identified, the overall risk of disease transmission to the public is very low.

“As we’ve seen in previous cases, we have well established and robust infection control procedures for dealing with cases of imported infectious disease and these will be strictly followed to minimise the risk of transmission.”


PHE said those who show symptoms of MERS after travelling to the Middle East, should contact health services through the usual routes – by calling their GP or NHS 111.

Healthcare professionals are advised to remain vigilant for severe unexplained respiratory illness occurring in anyone who has recently travelled in to the UK from the Middle East, particularly in light of increased travel associated with the Hajj.

First identified in Saudi Arabia in 2012, MERS is a viral respiratory disease caused by a coronavirus (Mers-CoV) that was dubbed Middle East Respiratory Syndrome because of the origin of the first cases.

Coronaviruses are a large family of viruses that can cause diseases ranging from the common cold to Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS).


However, more than 80 per cent of these cases have so far occurred in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, according to the World Health Organisation.

More recently, there have been outbreaks of MERS in South Korea and China.

A spokesman for the Royal Liverpool & Broadgreen University Hospitals Trust said: "We are treating a patient who has Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS). The patient is being cared for on our specialist infectious and tropical diseases unit, by specialist and highly trained staff who are experienced in dealing with a variety of infectious diseases.

"There is no risk to other patients or visitors.

We ask that people continue to use our services as normal and that people only come to our emergency department if their condition is serious and/or an emergency," he added.

Richard Hatchett, chief executive of the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations, which is funding the development of a vaccine into the disease, said: “Emerging infectious diseases, like MERS-CoV, are spreading faster and emerging more frequently than ever before due to ecological changes, urbanisation, and increased mobility within and between countries.

In view of its epidemic potential, CEPI has prioritised development of a vaccine against MERS-CoV, in addition to Lassa and Nipah viruses. So far, we have awarded funding to three companies—Themis, Inovio, and IDT Biologika—to develop vaccine candidates against MERS-CoV. We will also be announcing funding for additional MERS vaccine development soon.”

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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 06 2018 at 2:49pm
Well, we can't rule out MERS due to the virulence in this situation. Like we said, MERS is known to piggyback off flu, and hide in its shadow.     

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Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: September 06 2018 at 4:35pm
He came from Saudi Arabia (home of MERS) and flew into Manchester. He is now in Liverpool in The Royal Hospital http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6090437/Patient-diagnosed-killer-MERS-virus-Leeds.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6090437/Patient-diagnosed-killer-MERS-virus-Leeds.html

He initially went to hospital in Leeds. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mers-cov-case-in-england" rel="nofollow - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mers-cov-case-in-england

Public Health England are "contact tracing", but put the risks at "very low".

For me, "very low" seems complacent, as he has now travelled whilst sick to 3 major cities that we know of!



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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 06 2018 at 5:06pm
Sounds like no MERS.

Just down to seasonal flu or not. Looking good.

Seems that a bunch of sick people got on plane with the reg flu.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/06/health/uae-flight-flu-virus-bn/index.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/06/health/uae-flight-flu-virus-bn/index.html

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Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 07 2018 at 3:01am
They were suppose to release test results on which flu type yesterday. Wonder why the folks are still hospitalized.    

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Posted By: Jen147
Date Posted: September 07 2018 at 5:23am
I heard a passenger interviewed on the radio yesterday...she said all those people were sick before the plane even took off. They were coughing and sneezing so hard that she could feel the vibrations in her seat from people coughing so hard. But she definitely said they were visibly sick before the plane even left.


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: September 07 2018 at 7:00am
Is it me, or is there some confusion between threads?

Carbon20's initial post here was on a flight into the UK and its MERS sick passenger.

Yet the thread on the American    airlines flight which arived with 100 flu-sick passengers (of which 10 were hospitalised) was here: http://www.avianflutalk.com/jfk-airport-sickness-in-plane_topic38449_post274189.html#274189" rel="nofollow - http://www.avianflutalk.com/jfk-airport-sickness-in-plane_topic38449_post274189.html#274189

- and (set to drive yet more confusion) the two internal American flights were here: http://www.avianflutalk.com/two-planes-full-of-sick-passengers-in-philadelphia_topic38454_post274230.html#274230" rel="nofollow - http://www.avianflutalk.com/two-planes-full-of-sick-passengers-in-philadelphia_topic38454_post274230.html#274230 .

So, there are three threads on very similar issues. I believe this thread is amassing replies for the other two. Of course I could be simply confused - it happens to some people my age.

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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 07 2018 at 7:33am
I removed the dupe Emirates JFK thread. It didn't have any replies and it was a dupe thread. So we should just have the JFK vomit plane thread, and the American Airlines Phili Sick Plane Syndrome thread. Confused yet?

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Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: September 07 2018 at 9:54am
Er.....YES! I am now very confused!

This thread started out as MERS at a UK hospital.
                                                 MERS WAS CONFIRMED by public health England.

                                                                                                     I really don't want that to get lost in our system, buried under American patients zero.

From my point of view it is vital and worrying news. He (the passenger with MERS) visited 3 cities. That is far too big a contagion risk for us to take our eyes off of the ball.

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There was also an incident at JFK with sick (x100) and hospitalised (x10) passengers on a flight from Dubai. This was originally reported here on AFT. I believe it is now confiurmed as flu. The latest update on that incident is here: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/jfk-airport-passengers-quarantined-emirates-161300277.html" rel="nofollow - https://uk.news.yahoo.com/jfk-airport-passengers-quarantined-emirates-161300277.html But please don't lose our vital information in replies to this other incident.



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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: September 07 2018 at 10:12am
Even more worrying to us in the UK is the absence of information anywhere else on this subject. I would not have known about it at all, despite trawling the internet daily for health alerts, had Carbon not posted from Australia. THANK YOU, CARBON!!!

If I query Google or Yahoo on the subject, all information has dissapeared. I think it has been D-noticed (a gentleman's agreement between the media and our government not to publish news that might 'upset the public').

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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: September 07 2018 at 10:28am
I just realised there was a previous whole page of this thread.

I will take out the UK stuff and start a new thread of that.

Post away folks, just ignore the mad Englishwoman.........................

                                                                         Move along - nothing to see here............

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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 07 2018 at 1:27pm
We never got the flu test results for the JFK vomit plane, but it seems like Sick Plane Syndrome. All of the planes seem like false alarms. Interesting test run. Glad to see people were on top of the news. :)

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Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: September 07 2018 at 2:11pm
LOL Techno, i did wonder if you been at the Grog,

the reporting on this one was a bit odd,

"Overlord" help us if we really do have a Flap on...............

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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Diligent
Date Posted: September 07 2018 at 2:34pm
Hello,

Looking at the day time and night time temperatures in Mecca S.A. Very hot.

Day time high - 106 F
Night time low - 83 F

The Spanish Flu did not respect temperatures either.

So, what to make of this, I cannot say. I do not know.

Hoping it is nothing.

Diligent


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: September 07 2018 at 3:02pm
I don't drink from one month to the next! I was sober as a judge. I can be that dim stone cold sober.

I have had a whisky since then. I am not smarting so much at my own stupidity now.   

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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 07 2018 at 4:28pm
If the patients aren't released tomorrow I'm going to start wondering about things.

It's rare to be hospitalized at all from the flu, let alone 10 people out of 106 that were sick. Usually when pneumonia sets in they will keep them, but it will be very odd if they're not released by tomorrow with the common flu. The passengers who were on the American Airlines flights in Phili were not hospitalized, I don't believe. Different flu?


Why those people are still there is beyond me. Either they're major wimps or there is something different with their flu. You can't tell me all 10 were violently vomiting. I would expect most out tomorrow with test results released. If not, it could get concerning.

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Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 08 2018 at 7:32am
Do we have a MERS case or two among the sick?

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Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 08 2018 at 7:37am
Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I don't drink from one month to the next! I was sober as a judge. I can be that dim stone cold sober.




Techno, you were a judge? Interesting stuff. We definitely have people here in interesting careers.

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Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: September 08 2018 at 10:36am
As sober as. I've never even judged a flower show.

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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: Albert
Date Posted: September 08 2018 at 6:28pm
lol

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