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Inane Chump

Printed From: Avian Flu Talk
Category: General Discussion
Forum Name: Politics - Political Discussion
Forum Description: Political Discussion Forum; All about politics
URL: http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=39059
Printed Date: November 18 2019 at 6:39am


Topic: Inane Chump
Posted By: carbon20
Subject: Inane Chump
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 3:05pm
This fool needs to GO

he is not right in the Head

What a leader America has.....

Had to be the worst I have ever seen

Abe is Spinning in his Grave......




Replies:
Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 4:10pm
The Independent: Trump shouted 'you're making me look like a f******' idiot' at White House staff.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-border-wall-us-mexico-mike-pompeo-white-house-moat-kirstjen-nielsen-a9128991.html


Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: October 02 2019 at 10:42pm
Our local press has had a lot to say about the "Long Monologue" in what was supposed to have been a joint press conference, and the general sense of disrespect shown to a visiting President.




Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: October 03 2019 at 6:52am
This is a tough one.

The protocol is that one should show respect to a visiting premier.

Trump clearly is an abomination in this role and, morally, bullies need to be challenged.

So which rule takes precedence?

On a state level PROTOCOL!!! Always and forever!

On a personal level, morality should win.

Of course in this case, no one needs to make him look a fool. He is doing a stirling job all by himself.

(Strangely, I am on Trump's side where Biden is Concerned. How else do you get the corruption exposed? Maybe it is unpolitic, counter protocol and politically motivated, but if it can't be uncovered any other way, then personal morality has to "Trump"* protocol.)



*Like the pun?


Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: October 04 2019 at 3:39am
Twitter video clip

https://twitter.com/BeardedGenius/status/1179457132988682243 - Hands OFF


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 04 2019 at 5:03pm
The point is,

If Chump with held arms from Ukraine for political advantage,

He is putting America in harms way,

Why....

Because ,Ukraine is trying to defend it's self from Russia,

By withholding arms,

Chump is giving the Reds a BIG advantage.....

For his political gain....

Or is he truly in Vlads pocket!!!!?...


And you expose corruption by the proper channels,

not by Blackmail.......

Or false accusations......

Why ask a foreign country,when you have the, FBI,CIA at your disposal......






Posted By: DeepThinker
Date Posted: October 05 2019 at 12:32pm
This case should make it absolutely abundantly clear what is happening with American politics. Unfortunately it is corrupt through and through. Trump is the ONLY one willing to fight back so you see what happens to him. "Why ask a foreign country,when you have the, FBI,CIA at your disposal" simple... because his own government isn't loyal to him.

The USA and Ukraine have an anti-corruption treaty. So not only was Trumps actions not illegal he was mandated by law to do what he did. Also Bidden is on tape bragging about doing the exact same thing that Trump is accused of and the media lauded him for it.

This series of episodes we have seen has proven beyond a doubt that the deep state exists and it is ruthless and has like 90%+ of the media as allies.

I truly believe that if Trump was given a fair chance when elected most people would actually like him today. Trump doesn't start fights, but he is a vicious counter puncher.   Most of what you don't like about Trump is just about how he responds to unfair treatment.   He gets just as nasty as his opponents do.   The left has been allowed to use irresponsible rhetoric for ever... trump is just given it right back to them.

No Trump is not a saint.   I am not even sure I would want him as a personal friend if the option was available.   Sometimes it takes someone with dirty hands to be a good fighter.   I truly believe Trump loves this country and is going to do what he thinks is right regardless of what people say about him.


Posted By: DeepThinker
Date Posted: October 05 2019 at 12:44pm
Let me make it as clear as possible...

Trump made his money the old fashion way. He worked hard and earned it   Maybe you don't like his business practices that is fine... but at least he was providing goods/services, employing people, you know doing things the way you are supposed to.

In Washington people become rich by being associated with the government.   It is not just Bidden's son, it is Pelosy's son, and John Kerry's son, and these are just the ones have heard bout so far. Even most congress people themselves become rich while in office.

This is like a battle between new money and old money, and it is gonna get a LOT more dirty before we will see any resolution.


Posted By: DeepThinker
Date Posted: October 05 2019 at 2:14pm
Sorry if this offends but I feel like I need to say it. It irritates me when foreigners complain about the American government. I don't bad mouth other's countries government.    I have enough intellectual honesty to understand that I don't have the proper context to understand what is happening over there.

In the USA today unfortunately the VAST majority of news is propaganda. However since it is local here I can observe what is happening and come to my own conclusions. Most of the time the news doesn't match my observed facts so that I know it is all BS.   I am sorry but if you don't live here you don't have that context.

If our own local reporters can not be bothered with intellectual honesty or objective reporting....   How the hell do YOU think you are getting the real story?


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 05 2019 at 3:47pm
Hi I'm not offended,

I don't necessarily dislike Trump,

I have no right to vote in the USA.

I think I said before I like to throw this stuff out there to here from people on the ground, I.e you DT.
That's what I like about this forum,i don't ever mean to offend anyone,
i am open to others thoughts.

I post stuff on here from news organizations that you might not see.
Only to create comment and counter argument,
That way we all of us "on the ground"
Get a bigger picture of world events,
I watch I watch and listen to your (USA) news, and people calling in on talk back TV.
We all have a different way of viewing the world,its good to see how others see it,
And don't get offended if someone disagrees with you, best to try and see it from where they are sitting, their point of view may have value........

if your mind is open.

I think I have said before, my Father was Irish,Mother English,when the IRA bombed,Dad would say "freedom fighters",Mom would say "murdering bas...ds"
I work very closely with a devote Muslim,and devote Christian,i am a devote Athiest.. ..

As a team we are great.....
We have had our "discussions"....lol

And we all Respect each others point of view

Oh yes, my Son in law is Sri Lankan,my Daughter in law Indian/German,

So bring on different points of view,all welcome in my house.....

Never be Afraid of Criticism....

Makes a better person....

P.S. I once told a friend he had bad breath.....he loved me for it.....told me a 1000 times thanks.......




-------------
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 05 2019 at 3:58pm
When I wrote about the FBI/CIA

I did wonder who would say they can't be trusted......lol

In fact I half expect a knock on the door....:

-------------
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 05 2019 at 4:02pm
RE:Deepstate......

Has the will off the people been respected

Aka...Brexit?????????




-------------
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: DeepThinker
Date Posted: October 05 2019 at 4:16pm
Carbon20 thank you for your awesome respectful considerate, and most importantly humane remarks! KUDOS we need more like that.

Also know that I am very much like you in that I love a good honest argument.   When I come on here I often see just one side pushed so heavily that I feel an obligation to be contrary!   For me intellectual honesty is often more important that being "right".


PS... Ironically your opening remarks Carbon echo exactly the tactics that Trump would use! LOL.   Trumps opponents take him literally but not seriously, his supporters usually don't take him literally but they do think he is serious. Trump is just like you or me but he just happens to be rich and president.


Posted By: DeepThinker
Date Posted: October 05 2019 at 4:40pm
You may think I am using hyperbole when I use the word "propaganda" but it pains me to say I think it is accurate. When this story broke EVERY media outlet jumped on it. Not just that, EVERY one of them told the same exact story.   There was NO Independence of thought among our media. Then something crazy happened... Trump released all the pertinent info on this case. No one expected Trump to do this so it messed up their plans. The public now knew more than the whistleblower knew.   Then it became apparent that all the media was lying because the story never changed even though the facts did! Only now after two weeks when there is strong evidence that we have been lied to do we see SOME honest reporting.   Yes it is a very tiny amount but I will take what I can get.

Also note it has been reported that Bidden has been sending instructions to the media on how to cover this case.   Now lately apparently he is begging the media not to let Giuliani on.   They act like he is a crazy loose cannon but at the same time they are completely scared of him. Giuliani took down the mafia in NY now he is trying his best with DC.


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: October 05 2019 at 5:09pm
Just to throw my twopennyworth into the mix, I think the corruption includes Trump himself. He does a lot of Democrat accusing (most of it probably accurate) to draw attention away from his own failings.

As for his own fortune, yes he earned most of it, but not fairly. He left a lot of other people bankrupt with his (completely legal, but grossly unfair) practices. He had a million from his dad to start off with too.

This does not make him unusual (or even bad) in political circles. Overall, he breaks about even, good at some stuff bad at other things - JUST LIKE THE REST. I don't think him racist, but belive he is colour prejudiced and racially intolerant. Everyone is to some extent, he just seems more so.

Where I really have a problem with him is his manners - or lack of them.


Well, I am British (mostly).

-------------
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: DeepThinker
Date Posted: October 05 2019 at 5:35pm
Technophobe Kudos to you!   You don't have to like him, but at least give him the respect you would give any other politician.   Some talk as though all politicians where saints till trump took office.

What do you mean when you say Trump is corrupt?   To me that means you are using political advantage for personal gain. Honestly I have seen no evidence of this.   Trump has his own money he doesn't need to get rich from the office. I am sure if there was any evidence of such the media would be all over it.    

Lack of manners! Yea I get that.   He acts in ways adults are not supposed to act.   However for me, being truthful is MUCH more important that being polite.   I try and look at the substance and not just the polish.

If we never had political correction rammed down our rears for more than a generation... maybe Trumps tactics wouldn't appeal to the masses like they do.


Posted By: Kilt5
Date Posted: October 05 2019 at 6:01pm
he will be reelected


Posted By: DeepThinker
Date Posted: October 05 2019 at 8:21pm
He is like the worst/best internet troll you will ever meet but at his heart he is a decent human being... here is the proof.    He has raised good kids and his kids love him dearly. I believe there is a truly decent soul inside of the rough exterior.


Sorry for spamming the thread :) I have a lot of pent up thoughts and feelings that I am very reluctant to express in public. Very few people are able to have reasonable discussion on these subjects. It seems like for Trump haters (who are very vocal put probably a minority) if you are even open minded about Trump YOU are a bad person.   Life is just so much simpler if we can avoid this bs.   I wouldn't want to think less of my acquaintances after learning of their political feelings and I wouldn't want them to judge me either.   Much simpler to just keep quiet.

This is probably the first time in my life that I try to avoid political discussions in public. This is really saying something if you really knew me.


Posted By: DeepThinker
Date Posted: October 05 2019 at 9:39pm
This may sound crazy... but Donald Trump is probably the biggest "square" to ever inhabit the oval office.   He doesn't drink he doesn't smoke.   I kind of think the whole Access Hollywood video about grabbing other peoples privates was simply about "street credit" or fitting in.   I have serious doubts he meant it. I am telling you guys Trump is a square.   If he had ANY vices they could control him but they can't and it terrifies them.

MTA:His only real vice is s desire and ability to say what ever he is feeling like when ever he feels like it.   It is this flaw that most of you hate him for.   But for me in the grand scheme of things it is very small.


Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: October 05 2019 at 11:21pm
Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

When I wrote about the FBI/CIA

I did wonder who would say they can't be trusted......lol

In fact I half expect a knock on the door....:


Believe in me, I'm with the high command....

-------------
CRS, DrPH


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: October 06 2019 at 6:01am
Manners maketh man!

Good manners does not mean using the right fork, or knowing the correct way to address a Duke. (The outside one and Your Grace.) It means always putting the feelings of the other person first. To pick up the right fork but make the person next to you ask for the mustard - instead of offering it without being asked- classifies as poor manners.

Believe me, there are few worse things to say about someone. It means they don't care enough to try. It would, however, make him a great leader in wartime: just not right now.

-------------
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: DeepThinker
Date Posted: October 06 2019 at 9:31am
For someone with right leaning views (I am more liberatarian than Republican)It feels at least culturally speaking... we are at war.   IMO for far too long American politics has been about feelings.   Governments have made decisions that made their populace feel good, but not giving much thought to truly right wise decisions. "Feeling" have been weaponized. While on a personal level he may seem rude he fights for values that are very important to me.   For an example no American President has ever push as hard for religious freedom as Trump. This means a lot to me. Technophobe even though you are right in your accessment...   There is a reason why Trumps biggest support comes from the most unlikely group, religious conservative. These are the nicest people in the world and they love Trump. Its not just religious freedom but all types "values" issues Trump is a great on.   I have never seen a president fight for my values the way he does.

Working in healthcare has changed my definition of what is nice or not. We deal with life or death... so if you are a bit rude in your attempt communicate as directly and clearly as possible... it isn't a problem because everybody understands. Life matters more than politeness.   I have also found usually the "nice" nurses don't tend to be as good at their jobs. They can get stuck in their feelings.   They may try so hard to please the one patient that is complaining that they ignore other patients.   They are often slow to the point that they need help from others and that causes animosity of the staff. Of course compassion is a good thing in healthcare, but it must be tempered and contained.   The hardest thing for me was realizing...   All my co-workers actually care about their job even though t often doesn't seem that way.   They wouldn't be there and doing a good job every day if they didn't. We just all show compassion in different ways.


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 06 2019 at 3:08pm
BBC News - Trump impeachment: Second whistleblower emerges
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49953225" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49953225

-------------
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 06 2019 at 3:25pm

Ad


News > World > Americas > US politics

Related video: Donald Trump has admitted there are enough votes in the House of Representatives to impeach him
'Completely inappropriate': Trump condemned by third Republican senator as impeachment momentum grows
Senator says president made 'big mistake' by asking China to investigate Joe Biden

Conrad Duncan
7 hours ago
A third Republican senator has broken from their party to publicly criticise Donald Trump over the president’s calls for foreign governments to investigate Joe Biden.

Mr Trump has publicly asked China and Ukraine to launch investigations into Mr Biden, his main 2020 election rival, over unsubstantiated corruption allegations.


Susan Collins, a Republican senator for Maine, condemned the president’s actions as “completely inappropriate.”

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“I thought the president made a big mistake by asking China to get involved in investigating a political opponent,” she said.


Although Ms Collins did not say if she would support the removal of Mr Trump from office, she said she hoped the impeachment process “will be done with the seriousness that any impeachment proceeding deserves.”

The Democrat challengers to Trump in 2020
Show all 22
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Her criticism followed public statements by senators Mitt Romney and Ben Sasse against the president.

An impeachment inquiry would need to pass the House of Representatives before Mr Trump can be removed from office by the Senate.

However, a two-thirds supermajority vote is needed to convict the president in the Senate, where the Republican Party currently has a majority and its leadership is unsupportive of an impeachment inquiry.

Watch more

Second whistleblower comes forward in Trump corruption scandal
Earlier this week, Mr Romney said Mr Trump’s appeal to China and Ukraine was “wrong and appalling”.

In a statement to the Omaha World-Herald newspaper, Mr Sasse did not explicitly name the president but echoed Mr Romney's condemnation.

“Hold up: Americans don’t look to Chinese commies for the truth,” he wrote.

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“If the Biden kid broke laws by selling his name to Beijing, that’s a matter for American courts, not communist tyrants running torture camps.”


Mr Trump and his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, have been attempting to draw attention to the business dealings of Hunter Biden, the former vice president’s son, by alleging without evidence that he has been involved in corruption.

Geng Shuang, a spokesperson for China’s foreign ministry, described the allegations against the Bidens as “totally groundless” on Monday.

In Ukraine, the country’s top prosecutor Ruslan Ryaboshapka said he was not aware of any evidence of wrongdoing by the Bidens.

However, Mr Ryaboshapka added he is reviewing several cases related to the owner of Burisma, an energy company where Hunter Biden served as a board member.



-------------
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: October 06 2019 at 3:27pm
Well put, DT! Although that tallies with my belief in good manners. A small amount of rudeness, to spare the person greater hurt, IS good manners.

It all comes down to ettiquette VS manners; they are not the same thing! Ettiquette says use the right fork, speak politely and do not offend.* But offence to prevent a larger hurt is REAL manners and good ettiquette, which can be used to shame another or deliniate class differences can then be the lowest of the low

So, no arguments from me there. I still differ in my opinion of Trump's motives, but accept you may see something there which I miss. Possibly you have a more understanding nature than I do. It could also be that you are so intrinsically honest you can't spot the liar. Either way demonstrates great spiritual integrity, so kudos to you!

Belonging to a long-persecuted group of pagans, as I do, I also 'grock' the joy of religous freedom. So that is another win for the (almost) Omnipotent Orange One.








*This actually sprang from good manners, the right fork makes people eat more daintilly (which is less likely to offend other diners) but is not the same thing, or as important as real caring.

-------------
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 06 2019 at 3:27pm
Will we be going after the Chumps family.....

Kettle... Calling the pot ...black.....

What about the Tax returns......

Just asking.....lol

-------------
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 06 2019 at 3:37pm
The Independent: 'Republicans in Congress believe he is wildly unfit to be president': Trump impeachment would be supported by GOP in secret ballot, House expert says.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-impeachment-republicans-secret-ballot-congress-biden-ukraine-a9144901.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-impeachment-republicans-secret-ballot-congress-biden-ukraine-a9144901.html

-------------
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 06 2019 at 3:39pm
Religious freedom means to me,

If you believe in an imaginary person you can get away with

Murder......

-------------
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: DeepThinker
Date Posted: October 06 2019 at 9:35pm
Carbon how do you take that story?   If there is any mention of unmanned sources or in this case its close second "secret ballot" please don't give much value to them.   Would some republicans rather not have to deal the circus that follows Trump and go back to the good ole days? I am sure you can find more than a handful. Impeachment has been voted on twice in this country... both other times actual crimes were alleged and you got a strict party line vote in the senate.    So with Trump so far we don't have any crime allegation against him.(yet)   So while the Republicans would rather not deal with Trump... there is no way in hell they vote to impeach.

In the Podesta Email dump before the 2016 election high level Democrats talked about accusing their opponents of doing the exact same dirty deeds they are doing to muddy the waters.    In physiology it is called projection.... for the democrats it is politicking.

So I am not at all surprised that there is allegations about Trumps kids. If it happened before office I don't care it is a personal civil or criminal issue that they need to take care of.    If it happened while in office it would bother me greatly.   However Trump knows he is under a microscope so I doubt you find much on him and his family while in office.


Posted By: DeepThinker
Date Posted: October 06 2019 at 9:53pm
The word forgotten about in that call between heads of state is "CROWDSTRIKE".   Why is this word so important?

Sometime early 2016 the Democratic National Committee suffered a massive data heist.   This is the source of the email dump that I refereed to in the last post it was shared with wikileaks and released right before the election.   
The DNC never let the FBI investigate their servers, instead they turned to a private firm Crowdstrike.   Meanwhile there are stories that the data heist was an inside job.    Even people saying they confessed to doing it.   There was very strange and mysterious deaths and the stories went away. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Seth_Rich" rel="nofollow - Seth Richards
Crowdstrike declared Russia responsible. However Crowdstrike has been wrong before in a dispute between Russia an Ukraine.   They are also known to be strongly anti-putin.
Now comes a counter intelligence investigation against Trump that leads to somehow the FBI wiretapping Trump and the whole Russia Hoax is born.

Trump has a specal prosecuter and his Inspector general investigating these maters and will have reports soon.   THEN things will go nuclear.

Trump is getting close.   THIS word is why all this chaos is happening over this phone call.    The Bidden Story is just cover.


Posted By: DeepThinker
Date Posted: October 06 2019 at 10:22pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aevtHHULag" rel="nofollow - Dan Bongino - Obama, Mueller and the Biggest Scam in American History


I know it is a long video and is asking a lot of you... but Bongiono is a great story teller and you will learn a LOT.


Posted By: DeepThinker
Date Posted: October 06 2019 at 10:50pm
For those not familure with the American political system I want to explain my earlier comment about Trumps government not being faithful to him. The president only appoints the heads of agencies and departments. The vast majority of the people that actually do the work of government work regular jobs with incredibly good job security.

The jobs tend to be highly unionized, and because of geography and demographics of Washington DC you a heavy liberal and left leaning bias within the bureaucracy of Government.

The military tends to be politically conservative, but most of the rest is strongly liberal.

Theoretically Trump could direct his staff to replace whole departments... but it would cause absolute chaos and I doubt even Trump would have the guts to do it.


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 22 2019 at 4:56pm


News > World > Americas > US politics

Ukraine ambassador says in 'damning' testimony that he was told Trump wanted quid pro quo deal, report says
Ambassador Sondland said, ‘everything’ was dependent on [a publicly declared investigation], including security assistance’

Clark MindockNew York @ClarkMindock
13 minutes ago
The US ambassador to Ukraine has contradicted Donald Trump, telling House impeachment investigators that military aid to the former Soviet state was dependent upon a declaration of an investigation into the Bidens.

Ambassador Bill Taylor said during closed door hearings on Tuesday that he stands by calling it “crazy” to make the military assistance contingent on an investigation into Mr Trump’s potential political rival Joe Biden and his son Hunter.


Upon his arrival in Kiev, Mr Taylor claimed that he was alarmed by secondary diplomatic channels, and that other US diplomats said they were working on convincing Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate the Bidens. During a phone call with EU ambassador Gordon Sondland, Mr Taylor said, according to prepared remarks, he was told that the president felt that aid was dependent on a public announcement that Ukraine was opening an investment into Hunter Biden‘s business dealings with Ukrainian oil company Burisma.

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“During the phone call, Mr Sondland said that President Trump had told him that he wants President Zelensky to state publicly that Ukraine will investigate Burisma and alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election,” Mr Taylor said in his prepared remarks.


He also told House investigators: “Ambassador Sondland told me that he now recognised that he had made a mistake by earlier telling the Ukrainian officials to whom he spoke that a White house meeting with President Zelensky was dependent on a public announcement of investigations – in fact, Ambassador Sondland said, ‘everything’ was dependent on such an announcement, including security assistance’”.

Trump impeachment: Who's who in the Ukraine scandal
Show all 19
Donald Trump
The Whistleblower
The Second Whistleblower
Rudy Giuliani
The testimony marks just the latest US official to break against State Department efforts to squash attempts by House Democrats to compel disclosures through subpoenas. The subpoena was issued shortly after the State Department signalled it would not voluntarily allow its officials to testify.


And, Mr Taylor’s comments show why: he has provided some of the most damning information to the president since the revelation of the whistleblower complaint that sparked the impeachment inquiry itself, according to Democrats.

“It was just the most damning testimony I’ve heard,” said representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz, during an interview with The Washington Post.

The testimony appeared to confirm claims that Mr Trump had used US money as leverage in order to force the investigation into Mr Biden, who is the son of former vice president Joe Biden, a key figure who pushed for the removal of a Ukrainian prosecutor. Mr Trump has claimed, contrary to evidence, that Mr Biden had acted on behalf of his son’s interest to get the prosecutor fired, even though the effort was indicative of the Obama administration’s foreign policy and had international consensus.

Read more
Trump met far-right Hungarian leader Orban days before Ukraine meeting
Trump urges Republicans to ‘get tougher’ on impeachment inquiry
Biden staffer ‘turned away’ US official with concerns about Ukraine
Trump’s energy secretary embroiled in Ukraine scandal resigns
Mr Trump has denied any clear quid pro quo had occurred during a 25 July phone call with Mr Zelensky, even though a rough transcript released by the White House appears to show Mr Trump pushing for the investigation as a favour to him.

“He drew a very specific direct line from President Trump to the withholding of foreign aid and the refusal of a meeting,” Ms Wasserman Schultz said, describing a meeting between the two presidents that was a part of the discussions. It “directly related to both insisting on Zelensky publicly say that he’ll have an investigation, that they will investigate”.

Mr Trump has cast the impeachment investigation as an witch hunt, mirroring language he used to describe the special counsel investigation into Russian meddling, which included potential wrongdoing by the president as well. On the same day as Mr Taylor’s testimony, Mr Trump has received criticism for comparing the impeachment inquiry to “lynching”, dredging up the ugly history in America in which African Americans were suppressed with murder.

Democrats have indicated they want to move quickly on impeachment, and have said they could introduce articles before the end of the year. Moving quickly on the matter would allow Democrats to put as much distance as possible between the highly polarising measure and the 2020 election campaign.

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DONALD TRUMP | UKRAINE | BURISMA | JOE BIDEN | HUNTER BIDEN | VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY | GORDON SONDLAND
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-------------
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: October 23 2019 at 2:05am
Originally posted by DeepThinker DeepThinker wrote:

Let me make it as clear as possible...

Trump made his money the old fashion way. He worked hard and earned it   Maybe you don't like his business practices that is fine... but at least he was providing goods/services, employing people, you know doing things the way you are supposed to.


Hard work? Trump was born into wealth and his personal business ventures pretty much all failed either when his father couldn't bankroll them anymore, or financial institutions got wise to him and finally cut off his line of credit. Trump Steaks, Trump Vodka, Trump Airlines, Trump University, and the Trump casinos all went belly up, with the man himself usually being blamed as the principal reason. Seriously - who can’t make money from casinos in a place like Atlantic City?

And as far as doing things the way you're supposed to, Trump has a long and storied history of not paying his debts, stiffing contractors and suppliers and threatening them with years of litigation rather than pay them what they were owed. Many small businesses have been driven into bankruptcy simply trying to get Trump to hold up his end of the deal. He's wealthy because he's been willing to grind anyone into the dirt for a profit while hiding behind a team of lawyers - personally I find that very hard to admire.


"...between 1985 and 1989, a period when the economy was forging ahead and Trump was busy portraying himself as a billionaire with the Midas touch, his core businesses—apartment buildings, hotels, and casinos—somehow managed to lose $359.1 million. That was only the beginning. As the economy weakened, in 1990 and 1991, Trump’s core businesses racked up losses of $517.5 million. And, between 1992 and 1994, as the economy recovered, they lost another $286.9 million."


https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/donald-trumps-business-failures-were-very-real" rel="nofollow - https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/donald-trumps-business-failures-were-very-real





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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: October 23 2019 at 2:47am
You could also say that Trump was 'wise' enough to play the system. But personally, I think that absolutely execrable (for him and those who facilitate him). It all depends upon whether you value money or people.

Trump clearly sees people as a means to an end. It is the extreme end of egocentricity. I am not sure he even understands that people ARE people. They are all, in his eyes, either Trump sattelites or rogues. I suppose you could call it a 'God Complex', although no view of God in any pantheon is that unethical.

This is not to say that everything he does is bad. He has made a few good decisions. But the good stuff happens by accident in my opinion; the inception of his behaviour is utterly venal.

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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: October 23 2019 at 4:15pm
Oh, and while I am on the subject: Turkey/Syria!

Those of you who are Americans probably do not realise how you are viewed by the rest of the world; it's not good.

During the Vietnam war, there were Vietnamese who helped the Americans. When the US forces left, these people were abandoned. Their fate was rather unpleasant in most cases.

Going back a bit further, We (the Brits) were America's allies in WWII. We have only just finished paying back the money lent us. By contrast we did not charge anyone for our help. Of course we got none of the spoils, like paperclip scientists, either.

So, the only people surprised that the Kurds were abandoned without prior warning were those not paying attention.

The surprise - no the shock - was that Trump is trying to sell this as a triumph. Worse, even America lost out on this mess. Russia (YES RUSSIA!!) now controls that part of the Middle East. A diplomatic failure, a military failure and a shameful display of. "I'm alright Jack!"

Surely most of the American people can't be stupid enought to believe that was a triumph.

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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 23 2019 at 4:26pm
https://mol.im/a/7606349" rel="nofollow - https://mol.im/a/7606349

What a nice man you have a leader,

I would not what this vile non human being

To wash my toilet.......

I wouldn't talk to a Dog the way he speaks about people,

America at its lowest level for years....

Your troops having rotten fruit and vegetables throw at them

All your good work gone in a second

Obama is worth 1000x1000 of this excuse for a president.....



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12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: October 23 2019 at 4:29pm
Democracy Dies in Darkness
Middle East
Syrians hurl rocks and rotting tomatoes at departing U.S. military vehicles

Syrian Kurds pelted a convoy of U.S. military vehicles with fruits and stones as it passed through Qamishli, a Syrian city near the border with Turkey, on Oct. 21. (ANHA via Storyful)
By Jennifer Hassan
October 21, 2019 at 1:30 PM EDT
U.S. military vehicles pulled out of Syria on Monday — and were pummeled with what appeared to be rocks and rotting food in the process.

As armored vehicles flying the American flag rolled through Qamishli, near the Turkey-Syria border, frustrated Syrian Kurds were filmed hurling small items at the withdrawing vehicles. Some ventured onto the exit route, attempting to block the troops’ departure by standing in the streets with their hands up.

For many Kurdish residents, the pullout of U.S. troops by President Trump roused feelings of abandonment. Kurdish fighters were instrumental in destroying the Islamic State caliphate in Syria; the pullout of U.S. military forces near the Turkey-Syria border essentially paved the way for Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to launch a military offensive to clear the area of Kurdish groups — including those who fought alongside the United States — that he labeled a national security threat to his country.

Trump said he ordered the U.S. pullout as part of his campaign promise to end what he called the country’s participation in “endless wars.”

But his decision sparked widespread concern in the United States and around the world that the pullout could also create a military and political power vacuum that could lead to the resurgence of the Islamic State. Earlier this month, Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) labeled Trump’s decision “a major blunder,” while Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) warned that “a precipitous withdrawal” would benefit Russia, Iran and Syria’s President Bashar al-Assad.

Some service members said Trump’s Syria withdrawal betrayed an ally, and Kurdish forces described the U.S. departure as “a stab in the back.”

“When American troops first arrived in North Syria, kurds received them as heroes with flowers and ululation. Now terrified Kurds in Syria are throwing tomatoes and stones at departing American forces,” tweeted journalist Jenan Moussa before linking to another short video clip in which a male voice shouts: “It’s the biggest betrayal in history. We will never forget that.”

“Stones and rotten fruit for the withdrawing US force. What a farce this has been,” tweeted ABC Middle East correspondent Adam Harvey on Monday.

Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper said Monday that the Pentagon is discussing keeping a “residual force” of American troops in some Syrian cities to deny access to Syrian oil fields to the Islamic State and other groups that “might want to seek that revenue to enable their own malign activities,” as The Washington Post’s Kareem Fahim and Susannah George reported.

At least 70,000 Syrians have been displaced as a result of the latest escalation in the conflict, the United Nations said earlier this month.

Jennifer Hassan
Jennifer Hassan is the social media editor for the Foreign desk at The Washington Post. She is based in London. Before joining The Post in 2016, Jennifer was global community manager for the international chat app Viber. Jennifer honed her breaking news skills as the U.K. social media editor at MailOnline.Follow
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12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT


Posted By: jacksdad
Date Posted: October 23 2019 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Surely most of the American people can't be stupid enough to believe that was a triumph.


Nobody I've spoken to views it that way, Techno.





-------------
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.


Posted By: EdwinSm,
Date Posted: October 23 2019 at 10:54pm
On another forum, someone reported on a conversation with someone from the deep south working with rice farming.

The problem with draining the swamp is that you are left with slime



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