I bought a 1 burner coleman stove and will be using it indoors making sure to use as little fuel as possible. I'll mostly be just boiling 2 1/2 cups water at a time and using freezer bag and thermos cooking. If I crack a window or use it on the porch, I'll use a small pressure cooker and again burn as little fuel as possible.

 

Even candles can kill with carbon dioxide in a small enough space :-0

 

I guess the point is to emit as little CO2 as possible, in the biggest space possible :-0 So burning 100 candles for an hour is not safer than burning propane for 5 minutes, even though we are told candles are safe, but propane isn't.

 

I did see an indoor Butane stove at Target, but I was afraid to be dependant on a rare fuel.

Propane is not a problem to use indoors, it is very, very safe. I have no idea where people got this idea it isn't.

Where I live maybe 80% heat and cook with propane. Ever see all the advertisments on TV for propane?

Coleman fulid is that is what you use, might be another story. If it is what you use, operate it near a doorway so the fumes can go outside.

If you do use propane, buy a couple of the 20 lb bottles (BBQ grill size) and buy an adapter and hose to hook them up with. This will be cheaper in the long run.

 

We used a 2 burner propane stove indoors for 2 days.  All our cooking was done on this stove, and we did substantial cooking using both 1 and 2 burners at the same time for upwards of 30-45 minutes.  During this time we also burned candles and oil lanterns in the house and even a fire in the fireplace. No windows were opened for ventillation. The propane stove had all kinds of dire warnings about carbon monoxide and not to use it indoors yada yada yada.

 

I bought a battery powered carbon monoxide detector with a digital read out indicating CO in parts-per-million (PPM).  We kept it next to the propane stove the entire weekend.  The digital read out never budged from "0".

 

 

The adapter screws in where the small bottles does, the hose on to that and the other end of the hose onto the larger tank. Very simple.

 

I look forward to your future contributions.

 

SZ

 

Your warning is well-taken. However, there are a few caveats.

 

First of all, I am not recommending anyone follow my methods.

 

Second, the stove itself contains warnings about CO.

 

Third, CO is not produced by the combustion of propane in a normal oxygen rich atmosphere.

 

Fourth, CO IS PRODUCED by combustion of propane in an oxygen POOR atmosphere.

 

Fifth - Is this why they tell us not to use propane appliances in a confined space?  That once a significant portion of the oxygen in that confined space has been used, continued combustion will produce toxic carbon MONoxide rather than innocuous carbon DIoxide?

 

Sixth, carbon monoxide is a colorless, odorless and tasteless gas.  But is a battery powered carbon monoxide detector ($30) which registers the PPM of carbon monoxide in a digital readout beyond the reach of anyone seriously prepping (serious enough to have propane fuel stockpiled, that is)?

 

It would be unwise for any of us to recommend any unsafe practice.  However, it serves all of us to remember that the heinous warnings about carbon monoxide are typically aimed at people with double-digit IQ's who would try to run the damn thing in an unventillated closet, or a tent.  Or try to run a charcoal grille in their living room.  People who are dirt poor yet who somehow manage to scrape up enough money to afford an attorney who can sue an appliance manufacurer back to the stone age over an issue caused, not by faulty manufacture, but by the operator's own stupidity.

 

Plainly put, most of us are not that f*ck!ng stupid.  Most of us went to high school and remember the basics of hydrocarbon combustion.  Most of us know to take reasonable precautions when available (such as inexpensive battery operated carbon monoxide detectors) or simply opening a window for some fresh air ventilation.

 

Please don't anyone be offended, but if you didn't thoroughly understand the forgoing without having to read it twice or consult a dictionary, then please for the safety of yourself and others NEVER RUN A HYDROCARBON CONSUMING DEVICE INDOORS!!!!  This includes:  candles, sterno, oil lamps, propane appliances, butane appliances, bic lighters, coleman stoves or lanterns.  You are probably also ill served by having natural gas appliances such as water heaters, dryers, and furnaces.

 

Perhaps some of us who grew up in northern climates are better informed on the subject than some who come from warmer climates, because the natural gas utilities take GREAT PAINS to see that no one is killed by using their product (bad for business don't you know) and have HUGE PR INFORMATION campaigns to make sure people understand about using gas appliances.  Many municipalities now have ordinances MANDATING the use of carbon monoxide detectors.  If one goes off and you call the utility at 2AM they have a service person at your door in 15 minutes to investigate the matter.

 

Don't get me wrong... carbon monoxide is a danger, but it is a MANAGEABLE danger for anyone with common sense, as is electricity or gasoline.  Knowing how to manage the risk is your key to safety, not over -cautious panicy warnings from a company trying to avoid a lawsuit.

 

 

 

Z~

 

"Girls, gas, boom!" 

 

Some updates had to be made before we moved into our current residence and he had ALL the propane appliances removed before we moved in here :-( Now without the gas log stove, in this uninsulated house we are FREEZING our butts off!!!!

 

Where did I pick up writing CO2 instead of CO hmm... I know I copied it :-0 I have such a visual memory instead of an auditory one.

 

I get REALLY frustrated with dummy warnings. It makes it REALLY hard to make sound, logical decisions when SHTF, which it does periodically and repeatedly in my life. I guess I can be thankful for that though...as I seem to be better prepared for a "big one" :-0

 

The sterno says safe for inside and the propane says no, but running the sterno for 45 minutes, instead of the propane for 5 minutes, to boil 2 cups of water, just cannot produce less CO.

 

And the heater says yes, because it turns itself off with a CO monitor that comes with it, but my one burner stove, just HAS to produce MUCH less heat that that heater!

 

It's kind of like MANY things in life. I remember when my boys were babies and the doctors were trying to outlaw baby walkers. The thing was, that I KNEW my baby was safer on his feet, than on the floor being stepped on by his brother and friends :-0 Yeah, I had to be careful to keep the basement door closed but that was easier than keeping a baby from being stepped on by toddlers!

 

Living in fear and following warning and labels literally ALL the time can actually be MORE dangerous in the long run, and OFTEN leads to an unecessarily uncomfortable life. DAMN I wish that gas log stove was still in my kitchen!!

 

First ... consider it mandatory to have both a smoke & carbon monoxide alarm in your home, and that they're always working.  IMO I would still crack the window about 1/2 to 1 inch, and have a small fan running towards the window just to keep the air circulating. 

 

I'm assuming you have a south-facing window in your kitchen/dining - hopefully with a window sill.  This presents an opportunity to place dark (painted black) 2-liter soda bottles on the sill to preheat the water, so when the time comes to cook/wash - you're water will be anywhere from lukewarm to hot.  Hmm, I wonder how the green soda bottles work in the sun, then you wouldn't have to worry about painting them?  I'll try that out today and post the results later?

 

Here are several options for keeping things cool w/o refrigeration ...

 

This works for cooler climates, not where I currently live in Phx area.  Is to keep some drinking water, juice, breads, maybe eggs and such in a north window where you don't get sunlight - because glass windows tend to stay slightly cooler. 

 

Before my people (I'm Native Am) had refrigerators (as late as the early 70s), they built and placed screened boxes in openable north windows and kept their foods cooled in them.  By placing a wet gunny sack (burlap) over the box - closed the window and as the water evaporated, it kept the interior cool.  I saw a similar version in the "Roughing It Easy" book by Dian Thomas, which was larger, hung from the tree, and had several shelves.  This can be easily adapted to use in the home by hanging from the ceiling (supported of course) and placing a tub underneath to catch the dripping water.  

 

Another idea from another forum - using evaporation, is an original idea from Africa I believe, was to use two very large porous pots similar to terra cotta.  For indoors, I guess the outer pot does not need to be porous.  They placed about 1 - 2 inches of SAND on the bottom and added enough water to dampen the sand.  Place the smaller pot inside, and fill up the space in between alternating sand and water (just to dampen-not soak), tamp down the sand until about an inch from the top.  Keep in a cool, dark pantry - place in your goods that need to keep cool and use a thick cover, damp not wet,  like heavy canvas or a couple layers of burlap.  Check occasionally and add more water when top starts to dry.  This sounds heavy, so I would fix it where you want it placed or put it on plant rollers.  You can pick up bags of "clean" playground sand at Home Depot or Lowe's or most any home improvement store.  Get a couple of yards of burlap or canvas from the fabric store, some military surplus stores usually carry these as well.

 

 

 

 

Not that warmer weather is coming I need to be looking a bit more at solar. For the past few months it's been ov VERY little value to me here up north.

 

And quit ripping those consumer tags off mattresses!

 

I can't stop you... you're crazy!

 

I put mail in the post office box...  I didn't re-open it to see it went down... you can't stop me... I'm crazy!

I tried the green bottles again ... it's another partially overcast day.  This morning they started to heat up just fine in direct sunlight, now that it's CLOUDY again - they've cooled down ...

So, yep, think I prefer the fabric idea over the paint as well ... a dark knit that fits snug just may work ...

I'll try several ways (dark fabric, black poster board, insulated aluminum) to see if it can heat it up - even tho we're "supposed" to get rain all this weekend. This sounds like I'm on my way to actually making a solar box cooker, awesome!!

Anyhow, you're supposed to get stuff heated up even when it is partly cloudy ... so, i'll give it a try ... post it after the weekend!