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Recreation & hunting

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2007 at 1:02pm

     
Originally posted by flowerchild flowerchild wrote:

But, with great respect please, stop with the liberal bashing.


I apologize that I've offended you, however, I don't enjoy those that tend to lie on the left with their policies of legislating human behavior, selectively reading the Constitution's amendments as other than what they say, further treating the Constitution as a living document, and throwing feelings into a purely logical debate, making gross overgeneralizations without retort. In respect to you learning, I will tone the Liberal bashing down here. I will not stop when someone makes a comment that totally smacks of the indoctrination centers the public schools and higher learning colleges have become, from correcting them when they're so unbelievably wrong, their stance borders on total absurdity.

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I am a liberal, I come here to learn. Not every liberal supports the exact same issues and causes, just like every conservative has different views and opinions.


You apply that label to yourself, I did not. On many issues I tend to be firmly in your camp,(Abortion I am a firm supporter of Women's rights) however on others I am a staunch Conservative. (Just about everything else) I suppose I fall into the Libertarian camp, but if my party could ever get past the Marijuana legalization idiot fiasco I'll be quite a bit happier. Either way, more of my values fall in line with Conservatives, so I vote that way. I'm furious that conservative Democrats were elected to congress last time around, yet the likes of Pelosi, Kennedy, Feinstein, etc are in control. I was of the opinion that change might come to congress. I was wrong. It's more of the same, but with the other extreme in control.

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I fully respect gun ownership, some I guns I question, some I don't, but I am not saying you can't own them.


Fantastic. It shows that you're thinking. Read the Federalist papers, if you already haven't. They're very enlightening. Pay particular attention to where the founding fathers talk of freemen owning weapons. They specifically point out that our owning firearms isn't dependant on hunting.

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Now for hunting. When I grew up we were poor because of choices my father made. But he was a hunter. If he hadn't hunted I would have gone to bed hungry many more times then I already did. I love venison. I actually went to out local butcher and told them I would pay for their service if the hunter would share their meat. Unfortunetly no one took me up on the offer.


Ask around any hunters. The vast majority of us would happily give you an entire deer, or choice parts if you really wanted it. (Cleaned and skinned etc of course) If you were nearby I'd just give you one for free, (provided I got more than one myself, sometimes my luck sucks) no questions asked. Small town butchers would be great places to go to get your hands on venison. Typically many hunters pay for their deer processing with part of their harvests. The butcher then sells the venison. We city people aren't quite as able to get it as readily.

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My son wants a gun, but with some of his emtional issues I am saying no.


A good choice. Firearms are inherently dangerous tools. In the hands of those that might be emotionally unstable you have a recipe for a VTech Cho.

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My hunting question is this. With small game like rabbits, etc. how do you deal with fleas and ticks while you are cleaning it?

    
Typically I just gut the animal on the spot, Deer especially, then throw the animal on the trailer or in the bed of the truck. When the animal begins to cool off the ticks and fleas seem to know the animal is a goner and jump ship. Either way I then take the animal home and skin it, then put the skin and head in a garbage bag, seal it, and send it to one of the tanneries that want it. I got a nice pair of mittens one year that way.

When it's smaller game, I clean out the animal and then after the hunt I check myself really good for hitchhikers. Fleas aren't as much a fear to me as ticks, particularly deer ticks with their lyme's disease. If you really worry about them, like in the summer months, wear repellant with DEET and wear rubber gloves when you're cleaning. make sure your repellant DOES NOT come in contact with the meat or it can be ruined.
    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flowerchild Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2007 at 2:24pm
Thank-you for your reply, I appreciated it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johngardner1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2007 at 2:45pm
    I'll drop the subject but you didn't change my mind any way whatsoever. Count on your grandchildren cursing you for the harm you did to the environment.
I am not a prophet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2007 at 5:45am
Originally posted by johngardner1 johngardner1 wrote:

     I'll drop the subject but you didn't change my mind any way whatsoever. Count on your grandchildren cursing you for the harm you did to the environment.

    
Boy John you really have absolutely no clue as to what the hell you're talking about.

I would believe that if I did not hunt them and they overpopulated to the point they were starving, thus making them all die, would cause my grandchildren to curse me that much more. It's become plainly apparrent that you haven't even given token thought to any of the points that I and Huck made.

Now pay attention. Which does more damage to our fragile environment: deer living the way they were meant to live, then being killed through predation, in this case the predator is a human? Or a huge industrial farm where literally thousands of animals are packed into deplorable conditions, and slaughtered on the same premesis, then those waste products are dumped straight into the local ecology? Did I mention the numerous possibilities of insane diseases popping up because of those conditions?

Thus far you've stated that deer are endangered, sweet and nice, and that it costs more to hunt them than to go to the store and buy beef. All of which are absolutely absurd. Each and every point you've made I've countered with rock solid facts. You're showing amazing closed mindedness, and quite honestly I'm surprised.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johngardner1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2007 at 9:17am
    Let's just drop it. I see your arguments about overpopulation, but we could do ethical things like a lethal injection rather than shooting the poor animal multiple times before you finally nail it in the head. I'm just environmentally aware and we need more people like me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2007 at 9:46am
Sorry John. I agree with turbo 100 %. " To each their own". No one should tell someone else how they should live their lives. PS: you should try some Venison some time. To me it tastes much better than beef and it,s healthier for you..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2007 at 10:34am
Fine John.

But on your lethal injection deal: Try catching a whitetail deer some time. Their hooves are quite a lot like razor blades, and if a male they can be just as dangerous as a bull.

Further each and every deer, except one, I shot took one single shot and died. They didn't suffer, didn't run ten miles, etc. The one exception I shot and the deer jumped. The bullet struck the deer just under the shoulder and exploded the tibia. The deer then took one more bullet and was gone.

You seem to be under the impression that we're going out there to cause as much pain and misery as possible, when that's just not the case. The way I feel, and other hunters will agree 100%, is that I want the deer to hear a bang, look up, and there's the pearly gates. I personally don't want to have to chase a damn lightening quick deer twenty miles on foot until it finally dies. I will add though, that the way you described them dying is still far less painless than if a pack of coyotes, wolves, or a bear get ahold of them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2007 at 10:41am
I will add though, that the way you described them dying is still far less painless than if a pack of coyotes, wolves, or a bear get ahold of them.

And of course the slow death of a deer, when it gets hit by a car.....

Ever shoot any Coyotes Turbo?
    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2007 at 1:34pm
Here in Minnesota, no. While I was living in Missouri you bet I did.

I have an aunt that owns quite a lot of land near Camdenton and the coyotes would steal their chickens. They bought some of the expensive ones, and the coyotes got in the pen and killed them all. Some they didn't even eat, they just killed them for the hell of it. She has two small children, and a couple cats. Coyotes will take a little kid if they get the chance, and the cats would be done for if the coyotes got their way. They're pretty damn smart and wily so the first time I tried to blast one he figured me out and took off before I could get a shot.

I went over to OldAsRocks' house and he showed me a nifty little nightvision scope he had on a .17HMR and I had to have one for myself. I bought a few more chickens and waited on my aunt's porch with my M4gery and the nightvision scope and when they came around I'd nail them. I could really only do one every couple days, but the chickens were like crack for them. They absolutely *HAD* to have those chickens. I'd use some Black hills with the Nosler partition bullets. It was like a flyswatter on them.
    
When those deer get hit by cars, most of the time the people call the police and I shoot them in the head. It's a great way to try out different personal defense rounds. I found Glaser Safety Slugs to be near amazing when shooting them.
    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Huck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2007 at 8:36pm

Turboguy,

Thank you for the support.  Sorry I missed so much excitement.   Since this thread started I had to talk to the farmer that lives next door to me.  He was butchering a beef steer he raised for the freezer.  He shot that poor critter 5 times before it died.  I had to laugh when he told me that.  He also said the last time he shot 5 times he killed 5 deer.  So I wonder what was more humane?? 

Also to set the record straight.  WI is known as the Dairy State.   The WI Dept of Natural Resources even claims we have more deer in WI than cattle!

As far as hunting in MN, if I had some connections I would certainly consider it.   I dont know the terrritory and it takes time to get that started.

Coyote, I enjoy coyote hunting over the winter months.  Ice fishing is one of my favorite past times.  I really want to get up to Red Lake in MN to try and get some of those big crappies and walleyes I have been hearing so much about.

Huck

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2007 at 4:58am
Coyote, I enjoy coyote hunting over the winter months. Ice fishing is one of my favorite past times. I really want to get up to Red Lake in MN to try and get some of those big crappies and walleyes I have been hearing so much about.

Huck


Same here Huck. Someday I would like to do some Ice fishing again. It,s been about 8 years since i last did it.

It seems like i always get a coyote durring our reg. deer season. Good luck hunting guys!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2009 at 12:09pm
Hypocrasy in its worse form.  If I pay someone to murder someone else, guess what? I am guilty of murder as well.  You pay someone to "Murder" or put meat on your table.  We have canine teeth for a reason.  To eat meat., be it cow, deer, fish, birds, etc. is killing pure and simple.  God put these animals on this planet to be a food source, for us and for other predators.  We are not above the cycle of life, we live, we die, just like everything else on this planet.  You place yourself about the system, it is that mentality that has laid waste to our ecosystem and to the believe that we know better than God.  If you choose to be a vegaterian, great, but to pay someone else to kill an animal and say you are above it is plain wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2009 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by johngardner1 johngardner1 wrote:

    I'll never believe in hunting and there's nothing you can say that will change my mind. You do not need to kill an animal for food, you can buy dead meat at the grocery store. Besides, you probably paid more for the hunters permit than the worth of the meat in dollar terms. Overpopulation can be handled by different methods rather than killing momma deer so her cubs die of hunger. Do you know how much it hurts to go hungry? If someone killed you it would be called murder, and there are 6 billion people in this world that are going to choke to death once the planet's resources are exhausted. Does that mean they should die? I'm sorry, it isn't the 1900's, the ecosystem is dying. You shouldn't be allowed to hunt or fish until the problem has been rectified. Then you can go murder and get your meat clean of preservatives and hormones. Bet you catch e coli and/or salmonella anyway.
Hypocrasy in its worse form.  If I pay someone to murder someone else, guess what? I am guilty of murder as well.  You pay someone to "Murder" or put meat on your table.  We have canine teeth for a reason.  To eat meat., be it cow, deer, fish, birds, etc. is killing pure and simple.  God put these animals on this planet to be a food source, for us and for other predators.  We are not above the cycle of life, we live, we die, just like everything else on this planet.  You place yourself about the system, it is that mentality that has laid waste to our ecosystem and to the believe that we know better than God.  If you choose to be a vegaterian, great, but to pay someone else to kill an animal and say you are above it is plain wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote detpat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2009 at 9:59am
 i hunted when younger, we had a farm in northern WV and i hunted coons,rabbits, squirrels, and deer.  also groundhogs in the off season to keep skills sharp.  the groundhogs are a menace to farms and  considered vermin.
never underestimate the power of human stupidity
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sparrowminded Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2009 at 2:35pm
It's part of the larger shame in modern society that urban youth are deprived of the experience of rural life.  I recall a little story where a rancher had hired a local kid to help with the zillion details of keeping everything running.  In due course, there came a night when the rancher was roused from his sleep by a storm.  Immediately, he was worried about the many things that could go wrong.  He got dressed, grabbed a lantern, and walked the grounds.  He found that all of the gates were closed and bolted.  Hand tools were all put away, and the shed sealed tight.  The animals all had proper food.  He returned to bed, and rested well, despite the interruption, because he knew that his helper had prepared for the storm.
How do urban kids actually learn anything worth knowing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote detpat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2009 at 5:08pm
 that i couldn't tell you.  modern people are often so divorced from reality and it's gritty bits that i despair!
never underestimate the power of human stupidity
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2009 at 3:21am
I agree 100% Sparrowminded.
 
If the economy crashes or we have a nasty case of hyperinflation you're going to see people literally starving in the most fertile farmlands the world has ever known. Urban youth couldn't even figure out how to make stream water potable in this day and age.
 
Nobody's ever told them that you just gotta boil it good and you get rid of most of the creepy crawlies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sparrowminded Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2009 at 3:38am
Yea.  I think that in a better world, we would not be thinking that every young man should serve a hitch in the military, or in some whacked out civilian defense league.  In a better world, the last 4 years of high school would be spent in a rural setting, where our citizens would learn practical, life supporting knowledge, along with the regular curriculum.  How to set a broken bone; clean a fish; make fire; raise livestock...  in short, how to ride well, shoot straight and speak the truth.
As it is, some of us have a chance to bring younger friends along to the great outdoors, and try to help instill that thirst for knowledge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2009 at 6:38am
Yup, as Heinlein so aptly pointed out: Specialization is for insects.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote detpat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2009 at 9:04am
every American should learn basic skills such as survival, farming, fighting [both personal and military] and then move on to his life's ambition.  schools should still have shooting teams!
never underestimate the power of human stupidity
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