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Republicans deplore Trump mocking Kavanaugh Accuse

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    Posted: October 03 2018 at 2:50pm
Republicans deplore Trump mocking Brett Kavanaugh accuser
1 hour ago
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Media captionMr Trump cast doubt on Prof Ford's credibility
US President Donald Trump is facing criticism from fellow Republicans after he mocked a woman who says she was assaulted by his Supreme Court nominee.

Senators Jeff Flake and Susan Collins, both key votes to confirm Brett Kavanaugh, called Mr Trump's remarks "appalling" and "just plain wrong".

At a rally, Mr Trump poked fun at Christine Blasey Ford for not recalling key details of the alleged assault.

Last week the Republican president called her a "very credible witness".

What will the FBI investigation actually do?
If approved, Judge Kavanaugh, 53, would be expected to tilt the ideological balance of the Supreme Court in favour of conservatives.

Its nine justices are appointed for life and have the final say on some of the most contentious issues in US public life, from abortion, to gun control, to voting laws.

Mr Flake - who helped spur the FBI investigation into Judge Kavanaugh - told NBC's Today show: "There's no time and no place for remarks like that.

"To discuss something this sensitive at a political rally is just not right. It's just not right. I wish he hadn't had done it."

Image copyrightGETTY IMAGES
Image caption
Judge Brett Kavanaugh (L) and Professor Christine Blasey Ford
The Arizona senator is a closely watched swing vote as Republicans can potentially only afford one defection if they are to confirm their nominee.

Ms Collins, a moderate Republican from Maine, told reporters on Wednesday: "The president's comments were just plain wrong."

She has not yet said whether she will vote for Judge Kavanaugh either.

Later on Wednesday, moderate Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski joined in the criticism, saying Mr Trump's speech was "wholly inappropriate" and "unacceptable".

"I am taking everything into account," Senator Murkowski said when asked by reporters if it may affect her vote.

What is the other reaction?
Prof Ford's lawyer, Michael Bromwich, described Mr Trump's words as "a vicious, vile and soulless attack" on her.

"Is it any wonder that she was terrified to come forward, and that other sexual assault survivors are as well?" he added.

Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer on Wednesday denounced Mr Trump's "outright mockery of a sexual assault survivor".

At a briefing at the White House, Mr Trump's press secretary, Sarah Sanders, said she did not think the president's performance had made the approval more difficult.

What did Mr Trump say?
At Tuesday night's rally in Mississippi, Mr Trump mocked gaps in Prof Ford's memory about the alleged assault 36 years ago.


Media caption'Ford is a liar': Trump supporters' unequivocal backing for Kavanaugh
He said: "Where's the house? I don't know! Upstairs, downstairs, where was it? I don't know! But I had one beer. That's the only thing I remember. And a man's life is in tatters."

Shortly after Prof Ford's testimony to the Senate last week, Mr Trump said she was a "very fine woman".

What does Prof Ford remember?
When she spoke before the Senate committee last Thursday, Prof Ford recalled that the house where the alleged assault took place was in the Chevy Chase-Bethesda area in the Washington DC suburbs.

The president seemed to suggest she did not know on what floor of the property the alleged attack had occurred, but Prof Ford told senators she remembered being pushed into a bedroom on the upstairs level.


Media caption"Brett put his hand over my mouth to stop me yelling"
She testified that Judge Kavanaugh held his hand over her mouth to prevent her shouts from being heard, and attempted to rape her at the party in the summer of 1982.

Prof Ford did acknowledge in her testimony that she could not provide all the details asked of her - including how she arrived at the party or how she left it and where exactly it took place.

Experts have said it is not unusual for victims of trauma to remember certain details vividly but have little recollection of other things.

Why sexual assault survivors forget details
Ford's testimony through the eyes of a survivor
'Ex-boyfriends' attack accusers
Prof Ford's legal team has released a statement to rebut claims by a purported ex-boyfriend of hers.

Fox News has obtained a letter from the unnamed man contradicting her testimony that she had never given anyone advice on taking lie-detector tests.

The unidentified man says he witnessed the California psychology professor coach a friend on how to take a polygraph while applying for a government job.

Prof Ford's legal team released a statement from Prof Ford's friend, Monica McLean, the woman named in the purported ex-boyfriend's letter.

Ms McLean denied that Prof Ford had ever had any "type of assistance whatsoever in connection with any polygraph exam I have taken at anytime".

Image Copyright @ShannonBream@SHANNONBREAM
Report
Senate Judiciary Committee Republicans on Tuesday took the extraordinary step of releasing another letter attacking another Kavanaugh accuser, Julie Swetnick.

The correspondence was sent by a man identifying himself as a former boyfriend of Ms Swetnick.

Her lawyer, Michael Avenatti, told the Washington Post the letter was "bogus and outrageous".

Ms Swetnick accuses Judge Kavanaugh of involvement in alleged drugging and sexual assault of girls at house parties in the 1980s.

Is the FBI inquiry about to end?
The FBI's confidential investigation is due to be completed by Friday, but some reports have suggested it could be completed as early as Wednesday.

According to US media reports, at least five people have been questioned so far. Four of those interviewed attended a 1 July 1982 event which was listed on a calendar that Mr Kavanaugh has produced to show what he did at the time.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has said the Senate must vote on confirming Mr Kavanaugh this week.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2018 at 2:54pm
a least some of you Yanks got integrity ......
'
unlike your

                      PUSSY GRABBING PERVERT OF A LEADER............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2018 at 5:00pm



Up until recently, I saw Americans as brash, boisterous and somewhat childish, but also reliable, caring and fundamentally like us Brits/Irish. Despite everything, our values were the same and our societies strove to improve, evolve and better themselves along similar lines. I even saw Trump as a blip, soon to be forgotten in a system too well designed to be destroyed by one despotic pig. I even envied the Americans for having a written constitution: - and a great one at that.

Obviously, I think Trump's policies deeply flawed. But that is not what worries me. I see Americans behaving selfishly, mysogenistically, devisively and frequently violently. That does not tally with the people I thought I knew. No one seems to have any understanding left which does not involve an unhealthy dollop of xenophobia.

Democrats believe Blaisey-Ford. Republicans believe Kavanagh. Why have you all made up your minds before the FBI has finished its investigation? Do none of you believe your intelligence services/justice system relevant at all?

On ballance, knowing what I know about historical trauma, I can see why Ford could have held back. But that is evidence of nothing, except the disgusting judgementalism of those who have never worn similar shoes.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2018 at 10:27pm
Well Trump seems to have difficulty remembering certain things like getting over $400 million from his father, claiming only that he had a $1 million loan that was paid back with interest.


See: Trump taxes: New York authorities examine president's tax affairshttps://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45727617

From one job in bookkeeping/accounting I know that bosses can do things that I find morally repugnant, but are still acting within the legal framework. There is not enough information in the article (and I don't know enough of US tax law) for me to make a decision as to whether this accusation will lead to anything, or if they have been cleaver enough to play the system (which seems to have been set up to be in favour of the rich in the first place)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2018 at 10:14am
How else do you expect Trump to get the mainstream media to talk about her allegations being uncorroborated and unsubstantiated?   Everyone but fox presented her as being credible.   Yes it was insensitive by Trump, but it got the truth out there.   Trump didn't say anything untrue.

In the USA you do not destroy somebodies professional life because of one persons inconsistent memory.    I feed bad for Ford because she has been victimized by both sides but she doesn't have enough evidence to do what the democrats want her to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2018 at 10:30am
Technophobe... Do you remember way back in school when you had a class clown?   As long as one person was acting crazy, everyone else had free reign to do what they want.   Only the class clown will get in trouble, as long as you don't attract more attention than him/her.

This is exactly what his happening in American politics.   Yes Trump is the class clown.   However because Trump acts that way it gives the Democrats license to be just as crazy.   The craziness you see is the resistance to Trump as much as it is Trump himself.

Trumps resistance is just as crazy, petty and untruthful as him.   Please make sure everybody gets their fair share of the blame.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2018 at 10:59am
If you want proof that Trumps tactics are effective just look at this thread.     I didn't want to post it...   but I have been waiting weeks for a thread on this subject here.    Very interesting that it only happened after Trumps comments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2018 at 2:35pm
if you dont disagree with something that someone says then you ,are seen to agree with that statement ,

thats why i post after Chump spouts his crap,

i disagree with the way he behaves ,as far as im concerned he is not a fit person to be the president ,

if the American people want him as their leader , thats up to them ,

but it makes the American people look...........

Loud , Crass, No Manners,Bullies.....

and thats what people around the world   have always thought..............

i know thats not true for all Yanks, but thats what is being portrade to the world via Chump

sorry just saying..................

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2018 at 3:07pm
with this supreme court thing,

how on earth can this Kavanaugh be an impartial judge after all of this

i dont know what happened at that party ,

i'v been to lots of different types of parties and ive been around ,

my opinion in all this based on a few years under my belt is ,

some people do ,some people dont ,some people need a lot of loving ,some dont,

ie,every man woman are different , what some like some dont ,

at a young age people experiment ,

they find out whats expected of them and how to behave ,

you go to a pool party, things happen you dont agree with , you find out Mom and Dad was right ....

when they said "dont mix with that crowd"

you put it down to a Life experience,and dont go again .............

im not saying what happened was right or wrong ,

but for Ford it was a traumatic experience,

for someone else they may just walked away and moved on.........

People are different,Men ,Women.....

different races see thing different to how you or I would,

i see things different to you ,

the art is having compassion and an open mind ,

and an understanding that what you say or do might be having an affect on someone that you never meant ,and giving you a "bad look " in that persons eyes or that communities eyes.....

thats why you have diplomats.............






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2018 at 4:34pm
I don't believe the truth IS out there. The FBI was not even given permission to interview either main party. Permission from the white house was needed to interview Blaisey -Ford or Kavanaugh. A week is a bit short for such an investigation as well. This looks very partisan to me; that is not just on the Republican side either.

Several points occur to me.

Both accuser and accused appeared credible - yet someone must be lying. So who? Kavanaugh had more reason to lie - but that is not proof, not even a shred of it.

The attitude of Kavanaugh and the majority of those backing him seemed very dismissive of women in general, I even heard the revolting statement that "Bundy passed the lie detector" as if that was proof that Ford was lying. (Psychopaths easily pass lie detectors, as they lack certain remorse/guilt reactions common in the rest of us. Unless Ford is a psychopath, that is both an unfair comparison and a very insulting one.)

The witnesses for Kavanaugh were friends of his. They have reason to lie to protect their friend. The other two women who said Kavanaugh assaulted them at best had good reason and at worst had only political capital to gain.

I suspect Ford was rather drunk on the night in question. Speaking as a woman, I totally get the horror of being overpowered. All women know men can do this. We find it out early in life. Unless we have been reasonably lucky in our dating past and are now still lucky in our chosen partner, that is a persistent souce of fear. Even date-rape leaves an ugly scar. The fairer sex is a stupid description, but we are the weaker one. That is why men are expected to be a bit gentlemanly. Even if Kavanaugh is innocent, he is still a cad for his treatment of his accuser.

Finally. This is not a court of law decision. I truly believe that to be the upholder of justice you need to be held to a higher standard of behaviour than everyone else.

I honestly do not know who is telling the truth. I do think Kavanaugh is a poor choice for the honour of this position and an insult to the faith people need to have in the justice system.



Yes, Trump is astonishingly effective at all things business. He is just an appaling excuse for a human being as well. (With refrence to my earlier statement, I bet he could ace a lie detector test - yes I am being insulting!) Just because a system works is not reason enough, alongside; "Can I do it?" you chould also ask "Should I?"
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2018 at 4:42pm
I often played class clown. I never got in much trouble, became a prefect and house captain, passed all my exams (except for geography), was well liked and walked off with several cups and some honourable mentions. Some far more "dignified" girls were expelled, gated and suspended.

Even my house came top while I led it.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2018 at 5:55pm
The American system is unique due to its checks & balances....OK, so Kavanaugh will be affirmed to the US Supreme Court, it was pretty much baked in, even though past Justices (John Paul Stevens), law professors and others objected.

Let's see what Old Glory is made of! We have mid-term elections coming up - if the liberal Democratic party is so motivated, they will retake the House of Representatives (and perhaps even the higher Senate), in which case, they can engage in all sorts of investigations of this guy.

I believe he committed perjury on far more than these high-school charges, and a Dem controlled House could put this all on the table, forcing impeachment. If the evidence is strong enough, the Republicans in the Senate might have to go along with it, or face the wrath of the voting public.

Or not. Hang tight, the fate of the entire planet depends upon what happens in the next few months!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2018 at 12:08am
The problem with Miss Ford story is that she has no one that can vouch for her. As a matter of fact her ex-boyfriend has some nasty things to say about her (LOL I know an ex so take it for what its worth) There is no evidence that she EVER mentioned Kavanaugh as her attacker by name until very recently. If she mentioned him in her therapy don't you think they would have shown it?    I can buy a woman being attacked an not going to the police.   I can also see her not wanting to talk about it for quite some time.   However I have a hard time believing this could happen to her and her not tell a single soul her whole life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2018 at 12:46am
No arguments from me there, DT. I honestly don't know who is lying. It could even be both!

My objection is fairly simple. If Kavanaugh was on trial personally (had he been accused for an actual prosecutuion) "reasonable doubt" should let him walk free. But that is not the case here. As an upholder of justice he should embody its principles; there should be no room for doubt at all. The higher the position, the more stringent the checks to pass should be.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2018 at 1:00am
By the way, our system is no better. We have had mysogenists, racists, crooks and idiots in similar positions. They also got there via the "old boys network".

We treat them the same. Eventually they get driven out by us "common folk" and theit misapplications of justice are sorted out over time. The innocent get released and compensated. But the crooks who walked free, stay free and the damage to the innocent is already done; some even catch the crimminality bug in prision.

So always speak up. When the wrong sort hold power the innocent suffer. It is bad eough here, we can heal some wounds, but you even have the death penalty! That won't clear up if missapplied!
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2018 at 9:56am
How can you ever know beyond a doubt when all it takes is one woman to make an unsubstantiated claim from 30 years ago.

It should be very simple.    Kavanough has a long professional history of public service.   That is what you primarily go buy... for the personal stuff trust the FBI background check they are VERY thorough.   He had been through 6 plus this supplemental one.

Here is the thing though Trump didn't need to nominate Kavanaugh...   If he had any doubt in Bretts ability to do the job there are a dozen others that are extremely qualified that he could have also picked.

While I do not know Miss Fords personal story or motivation.   I can see the way the democrats reacted. The way Feinstein kept this allegations secret till the last minute then leaked it to the press even though apparently the accuser wanted to remain anonymous. Miraculously Miss Ford found herself with legal services that she doesn't know how she got them or who paid. Then they lie about her fear of flying.   The whole thing was very clearly a political stunt.

If Feinstein had come clean from the beginning and the republicans where concerned about the allegations Trump would have just nominated someone else and their delay tactic wouldn't have worked. Obviously though this isn't what the democrats wanted.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2018 at 11:13am

3 women - and people change after puberty.

The Democrats did jump on this with unseemly haste AND I think it shoud fail the "reasonable doubt" test. But this is an exalted position. Therefore, in my opinion, the bar should be much higher than reasonable doubt.

Just one of these three allegations would be enough to prevent him from adopting, because the family courts would not allow the risk to one single child. His forthcoming actions will affect the lives of many people. Should the bar for this office not be higher still?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2018 at 12:10pm
"3 women" With one of the others even if it was true I don't think it disqualifies Kavanaugh... The other allegation is just absurd.   The accuser and/or her lawyer will probably face legal trouble over it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2018 at 12:43pm
Actually, the bar has dropped considerably in the past few days.


"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2018 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by DeepThinker DeepThinker wrote:

    I can buy a woman being attacked an not going to the police.   I can also see her not wanting to talk about it for quite some time.   However I have a hard time believing this could happen to her and her not tell a single soul her whole life.


I think it's completely plausible that a woman has kept an assault secret and never told anyone. That's what the #metoo movement is all about. In the past many women weren't believed, and, to add insult to injury, were ridiculed in the process and made to think it was their own fault.

What makes me find this witness more than credible is that she is an educated, successful woman who has never sort the limelight in her life. Why on earth would anyone come out with false allegations and open themselves up to death threats and public humiliation.

The point that must be borne in mind about this is that, at high school, Brett Kavenaugh, along with his friend or friends, thought that harrassing and groping women was fine - a laugh even, something that they could do and get away with, and it is this contempt for women's feelings and the law that must be a fundamental part of his character, and therefore he can't hold a position in law if he doesn't, deep down, respect and uphold every part of the law.

And before you say that all men do things in high school they wouldn't do now and it was just high jinks and back then these things were ok, everyone did them. You're wrong. I know men who were like that, but also many more who weren't - who've grown up into solid, reliable, trustworthy men and who have nothing in their background that they are ashamed of or would want to keep secret.

It's not one woman who has called Kavenaugh out, it's 3. And I bet there are more who haven't come forward. I'm sure he regrets his behaviour now, I'm sure he looks at his own daughters and thought how he'd hate anyone to assault them. I'm sure he was a jerk at high school, but just because it was 40 years ago, it doesn't make it alright.
If it is to be, it is up to me.
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