Russian planecrash Sinaï

https://www.rt.com/news/320217-russian-plane-off-radars/

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Topic: Russian planecrash Sinaï
Posted: October 31 2015 at 1:46am

A Russian plane carrying over 220 people from Egypt to Russia disapperaed from radars, according to Russian and Egyptian authorities. It is believed to have crushed in central Sinai.

www.debka.com/newsupdatepopup/13433/Cairo-confirms-Russian-airliner-crashed-in-Sinai">www.debka.com/newsupdatepopup/13433/Cairo-confirms-Russian-airliner-crashed-in-Sinai

Sinaï is partly under IS-control. If it would turn out that a Russian civilian airplane is shot down by missiles the west gave to IS we have another major crisis. But first indications are that poor weather is most likely cause. http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-34687309">http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-34687309

Coming Sunday, november 1, will be electionday in Turkey.

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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-31/islamic-state-claims-responsibility-russian-airplane-crash

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Posted: October 31 2015 at 11:02pm

Whether or not the video is real or staged like many of ISIS' previous "made in Hollywood" productions, is currently unknown.

Of course, is the same ISIS which a recently leaked CIA report revealed as being created by the CIA as a "tool" to overthrow Syria's Assad.

In other words, a proxy organization of US "shadow government destabilizing operations", trained in U.S. ally Turkey, and openly funded by both U.S. allies Saudi Arabia and Qatar, just took down a Russian plane.

The question now is did ISIS use a US-made surface-to-air missile to start what may be a very unpleasant war.

Also, does Russia get a carte blanche to begin attacks on ISIS in Egypt now, the same Egypt which recently "purchased" the two Mistral ships made by France, which were meant to be bought by Russia in a deal that was scrapped in the last minute due to NATO intervention?

One thing is clear: if the Russian population had any qualms about continuing the campaign in Syria, they were just eliminated in perpetuity.

We now await the Russian response, against both ISIS and its direct and indirect sponsors.

http://themillenniumreport.com/2015/10/russian-airliner-takedown-over-sinai-was-it-the-mossad-the-cia-isis-or-all-three/

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Posted: November 01 2015 at 4:39pm

^Thanks, Dutch Josh! As Frank Herbert said in the book "Dune," "plots within plots!"

The little screen-shot embedded in the story was fascinating (proof of a missile hit due to the spread of bodies & debris field).

The Russians have ticked off many people - perhaps Ukraine brought some high-altitude Buk missiles to the region? Or, perhaps some were formerly owned by Libya or other Soviet client state?

If the USA has any fingerprints on this at all, it will get ugly, fast!

CRS, DrPH

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Posted: November 01 2015 at 5:07pm

CRS, DrPH wrote:

^Thanks, Dutch Josh! As Frank Herbert said in the book "Dune," "plots within plots!"

The little screen-shot embedded in the story was fascinating (proof of a missile hit due to the spread of bodies & debris field).

The Russians have ticked off many people - perhaps Ukraine brought some high-altitude Buk missiles to the region? Or, perhaps some were formerly owned by Libya or other Soviet client state?

If the USA has any fingerprints on this at all, it will get ugly, fast!

It is unlikely the U.S. would shoot down a Russian passenger plane. It is also more unlikely this would fall apart in midair for no apparent reason. They judiciously avoid using the word "exploded" which it probably did. Technical malfunctions would be not make a jet explode - unless there was a the fuel caught on fire and blew up.

There is another plot within a plot here that seems much more important. The Russians may have made a mistake in invading Syria and getting involved in this war. Terrorists are notorious for random acts such as this and since there are so many so many places, some sort of political solution is the only way to solve this at all.

I doubt you will see any Chinese passenger planes coming down except from natural malfunction in the near future. They have been wise enough for the most part to stay out of it - at least that is what the most recent announcement and news say.

Medclinician

"not if but when" the original Medclinician

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http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=30

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Posted: November 01 2015 at 8:00pm

Medclinician wrote:

CRS, DrPH wrote:

^Thanks, Dutch Josh! As Frank Herbert said in the book "Dune," "plots within plots!"

The little screen-shot embedded in the story was fascinating (proof of a missile hit due to the spread of bodies & debris field).

The Russians have ticked off many people - perhaps Ukraine brought some high-altitude Buk missiles to the region? Or, perhaps some were formerly owned by Libya or other Soviet client state?

If the USA has any fingerprints on this at all, it will get ugly, fast!

It is unlikely the U.S. would shoot down a Russian passenger plane.
Medclinician

What I meant was, if it was an American weapon that somehow made its way over to rebel hands. Don't forget, we gave all sorts of arms & material to the Iraqi army, who then threw everything down in their haste to flee Islamic State! Damn cowards. I have no idea what we distributed to what party, but all sorts of things could happen.

There was always the threat that a shoulder-launched arm like Stinger would pass into rebel hands, but at that altitude, it would take a more powerful system. This has some interesting specs:

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Posted: November 01 2015 at 9:06pm

I usually don't get into these conversations but how many weapons did we leave behind when we left Iraq? Or left for the Iraq government that went to the "wrong" hands?

What a mess we can make. Hope it was not our weapon that killed those poor Russian people including 17 kids!

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Posted: November 01 2015 at 9:37pm

I see at least 5 possibilitys of a IS-role in bringing down the Russian aircraft;

1. IS only claims the capability of shooting down planes (but had no further role in it)

2. IS managed to get a bomb in the plane

3. IS did damage the plane at low altitude shortly after take-off causing damage that contributed to the crash

4. IS is able to shoot down planes at 30.000 ft/10 kilometres +

5. IS did shoot at the Russian plane while it was already in serious problems at low altitude looking for an emergency landing place (or already crashing)

The debris indicate an "explosion"at high altitude. One of the possible causes could be metal-fatigue/poor maintenance.

But only the IS claim of bringing down that Russian plane provides Russia with an excuse for trying to play a larger role in the Middle East. The crashsite itself will need "protection" proberbly for months. Russia could offer Egypt "protection" for that area.

Egypt is facing IS and other "unrest" not only in the Sinaï, but also in Libya. Sudan is getting more involved in the Yemen-war on the Saudi-side.

Several countries develop missiles to bring down planes from high altitude. The US, Russia, China (but proberbly also the UK, France, Israel, North Korea, Iran). Most of those weapon-systems are complicated. Just like in the MH-17 dossier (pro-Russian rebels being blamed for bringing down an aircraft in the eastern-Ukraine, july 2014, I doubt if Russia would allow any "rebels" to have that kind of weapons and if "rebels"would have such a weapon would they be able to "work" with it.) you might question if "rebels" have that kind of weapons and would they know how to use it.

Another question, "who gains" by bringing down this plane (or exploiting this story). In the MH17 dossier Ukraine tried to put the blame on the "rebels"and Russians. "The west" started fingerpointing, an "international team of investigation" did give a role to the Ukraine secret service, wich made any fact-finding "very difficult".

If Russia wants to use this disaster as an excuse for further involvement in the Middle East (and limiting damage to their own airline-companies) they could "lead an investigation into the direction they want".

The future will tell if the investigation will be serious or manipulated. The Sinai could give "more influence" on the Suez-canal. I wonder wether Russia is able to enlarge its role into Egypt.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein

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Posted: November 02 2015 at 3:03am

Kull Wahid, Chuck! Yet more in common. 'And the plots within plots are on both sides (or more - this involves many countries). I'm not even going to try to unpick this.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.

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Posted: November 02 2015 at 3:45am

I have spent 5 years of my life as an RAF mechanic and another 3 in a regimental protective role. I have seen several civilian crashes and out of personal interest have made a lifelong study of civilian aircraft mishaps.

The debris field, the radar trace information and the debris shown on BBC news TV, would suggest that the Russian aircraft was taken out by a bomb on board, in either the upper part of the undercarriage bay or, far more likely, in the midsection storage compartment, which caused the tail section to break off and the forward section from that (cockpit, wings and most of the fuselage) would then rapidly fall to earth, disintegrating as it went. The tail section would probably have rotated whilst falling less rapidly and remained as it was shown on the news. This would account exactly for the radar trace, which showed the plane breaking in two and a large section falling quickly to the ground. The speed at the moment of the explosion, the altitude and the distance the front section traveled can show mathematically where fuselage should have fallen in such a senario and the black boxes (big orange recorders) would also shed light on that. When you look at the segment on the news, it is as though it has been cut cleanly in half, except for the basal area which shows some possibility of an explosion. If it was a catastrophic failure that caused the plane to break apart, and it was not caused by a bomb, at least eight major components, that hold the independently manufactured sections together, would have had to have failed simultaneously. I do not believe that any weaponry in the area, with ground-to-air capability could have taken this plane out.

The above is of course an opinion, not proof, but I hope that a serious study is made and East/West propaganda snipes that we make at each other, as a matter of course, will not get in the way. For this was a disaster that affected real people, including the innocents not yet old enough to understand the world they were born into.

Now, perhaps, we (both East and West) can get on with the joint task of the utter destruction of the so-called IS, by all means at our joint disposal. There would be less incentive for Russia to be so pushy if we had not let the politicians stop them from hammering the Islamic terrorists in Chechnya.

Get Real Everyone! There is only one enemy in this world and that is politico/religious fanaticism. America should know this: it is the reason you threw the British out and became the United States of America.

I like Ike

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Posted: November 02 2015 at 5:59am

"Get Real Everyone! There is only one enemy in this world and that is politico/religious fanaticism. America should know this: it is the reason you threw the British out and became the United States of America."

I could not agree more with the above statement. The Bible Identifies this political/religious power that receives its power from Satan. That power is called the beast in the book of Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:3

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.

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Posted: November 02 2015 at 6:36am

Who or what is this political/religious power

Here is a two part article identifying the beast of revelation using the identifying characteristics listed in the Bible and fulfilled in history

https://www.whitehorsemedia.com/identifying-the-beast-part-1/

https://www.whitehorsemedia.com/identifying-the-beast-part-2/

If you do not like what this presents then provide Biblical proof to support a different view that fits history.

Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.

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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/11/03/reports-heat-flash-linked-doomed-russian-plane/75083156/

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Posted: November 03 2015 at 6:33am

Recent finding - US satellite detected a "heat flash" in the air where the doomed plane was:

Not necessarily a missile, possibly an on-board bomb.

CRS, DrPH

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https://www.rt.com/news/320655-a321-midair-explosion-version/

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Posted: November 03 2015 at 7:29am

The nature of passengers’ injuries from the Russian jet that crashed in Egypt’s Sinai on Saturday may indicate that an explosion took place aboard before the plane hit the ground, an Egyptian doctor who examined the bodies said, Sputnik news agency reported.

"A large number of body parts may indicate that a powerful explosion took place aboard the plane before it hit the ground,"an Egyptian forensic expert told the agency.

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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-04/us-officials-isis-likely-had-bomb-russian-plane

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Posted: November 05 2015 at 4:30am

So apparently, US officials have more evidence about what happened to this plane than either the Russians or the Egyptians do and Washington is now confident enough to say that ISIS is "likely" responsible.

Needless to say, there are any number of questions that should be asked here, but at least NBC gets one thing right:

A U.S. official told NBC News he expects Russia to retaliate "heavily and militarily" if the theory is borne out.
http://johngaltfla.com/wordpress/2015/11/04/goodbye-raqqa-isis-has-invited-massive-russian-retribution-with-the-airline-bombing/">
http://johngaltfla.com/wordpress/2015/11/04/goodbye-raqqa-isis-has-invited-massive-russian-retribution-with-the-airline-bombing/

With the breaking news tonight that ISIS was indeed responsible for the destruction of the Russia airliner over the Sinai according to UK and US intelligence officials it is only a matter of time until Vladimir Putin sends his long range bombers over Syria to pay a visit upon the capital of ISIS in Raqqa, Syria. The preferred weapon of choice? The temptation would be to fulfill the internet rumors of a tactical nuclear strike in the 25-100 kt range but due to the fear of irradiating Turkish territory, that is highly unlikely.

http://www.forbes.com/powerful-people/">http://www.forbes.com/powerful-people/

Forbes most powerfull people list;1 Putin, 2 Merkel, 3 Obama

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http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/11/03/exclusive-breaking-story-bombing-of-russian-plane-highly-probable/

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Posted: November 05 2015 at 5:08am

A source with Russian intelligence just confirmed that the Russian government will not announce its preliminary findings on the A321 crash in Sinai.

However, their intelligence solidly names Saudi Arabia as responsible for the bombing which killed 244. Egyptian intelligence was fully complicit in the terror attack. The sources stated:

“Half the Egyptians work for Israel, the other half for Saudi Arabia anyway, Egypt has no security services, only paid foreign spies.”

Sources in Moscow say there no doubts whatsoever.

Would the Saudis attempt something like this in Israel’s backyard without involving them somehow? What do you think? Would they do it without the US knowing, when we have guaranteed to protect their security? Inquiring minds would like do know.

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