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Should the Political Threads be moved from Main

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Medclinician View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 08 2017 at 8:06am
The whole flavor and feel of the AFT which I have coming to for near a decade has changed- one does lose track - has really evolved into a Social Justice battlefield. This board is not about politics - at least it didn't use to be. No one is posting how people should prep for the hurricanes or on the outbreaks of Flu or disease.

It is still bad in Australia, but I am the only one just about even covering it anywhere.

Perhaps the site needs a new name.

SJW Talk - Social Justice Warrior Talk

because really - that is what a lot of it has become.

Just saying.

Can we go back to being Avian Flu Talk?

Whether people like or hate Trump has nothing to do with Flu, being prepared for disaster, or anything we have been posting on since I began here.  What do you think, Albert?  It has been so long since we communicated.

Medclinician

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2017 at 8:39am
For goodness sake, Med have a sense of perspective, even if you can't manage a sense of proportion!  YOU started most of the political threads.  Now more people disagree with you than agree with you, so you want to drop the subject.  That is not the way discussion works.

Yes we are a flu site.  We also discuss anythiing at all which poses a threat to life or limb - which many people think includes Trump.  That is why neither I nor any of my fellow mods have moved the threads.  There are more than six thousand members of this site and we have regular visits from many guests as well.  If we get a significant number of complaints about the political discussion we will probably put it to the vote.  So far this is the third, that is less than 0.005% of our posters.

But for now, just be careful what other discussions you start, as they may not go your way.  This is a discussion forum and absolutely everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  I take my moderator duties seriously, and have read many of your historic posts from before I joined AFT.  To be honest you seem to be taking LESS flack these days (Reality Check, Mashadin and Technologist to name but a few).
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2017 at 11:19am
Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

For goodness sake, Med have a sense of perspective, even if you can't manage a sense of proportion!  YOU started most of the political threads.  Now more people disagree with you than agree with you, so you want to drop the subject.  That is not the way discussion works.

Yes we are a flu site.  We also discuss anythiing at all which poses a threat to life or limb - which many people think includes Trump.  That is why neither I nor any of my fellow mods have moved the threads.  There are more than six thousand members of this site and we have regular visits from many guests as well.  If we get a significant number of complaints about the political discussion we will probably put it to the vote.  So far this is the third, that is less than 0.005% of our posters.

But for now, just be careful what other discussions you start, as they may not go your way.  This is a discussion forum and absolutely everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  I take my moderator duties seriously, and have read many of your historic posts from before I joined AFT.  To be honest you seem to be taking LESS flack these days (Reality Check, Mashadin and Technologist to name but a few).


Yes, it is true I am less stalked which I was in real life for almost 8 years. The issues started here cost me my marriage, my family, my business, and left me homeless.  It is not nice to fool with the CDC or people in high government. I have yet to escape with my life.

Ever since I posted on the CDC being dishonest with the number 500,000 to 1,000,000 cases of Swine Flu in New York I have been watched and tracked. This is reality - and with the coming of Edward Snowden, we now know how bad it is. There is no privacy not only on the net, not  on your phone or even in your house. One close person to me, who tried to cover my back and truly cared, died of Swine Flu in 2014 in Chicago. They wouldn't even admit there was an epidemic. As far as stalking...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance

This is nothing compared to the advanced viral researchers I saw in homeless shelters, many of whom later died. Even saw a hit list for over 2,000 people who were developing bio weapons. Most of them were killed.

I do have an ability to find interesting things and post them, but politics has become a racial, gender, alternate lifestyle warzone.

No this is nothing compared to the very aggressive trolls we had on here several years ago that would ruin every thread and go back and forth with a personal conversation totally off topic to ruin the thread.

I have been very proud of the team here on disease reporting, outbreaks and so forth.  I just was hoping - my threads would be moved as well - we could back to prepping and outbreaks. I realize there is huge traffic here now- and a lot of it comes from Facebook where I have posted this link many times.

Where is Albert?

Waves - are you still with us Albert?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParanoidMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2017 at 4:39am
I figure i should chime in since I'm probably number two of the three who have complained 😀.

The advice I was given was to avoid any General Discussion thread. That's a lot to avoid! Plus, if I see certain people have posted a response in the News section, I avoid that thread as well. Some people just can't help themselves no matter what the subject.

So basically, I'm in such a minority that I don't count. It's obviously my problem. Would a political based section be welcome? Absolutely!!! Then people could debate,argue, console and basically blame politicians for everything to their heart's content. The likelihood that's going to happen is right up there with a snowball's survival in....well,you get the picture.

It's sad to see this site go this way. Nostalgia for the good old days can only carry you so far. It's a matter of adapt and overcome.

I wonder what Ginfin would have to say 😉?
But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of the Lord
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2017 at 11:01am
ParanoidMom - it'll calm down. It always does. As Techno mentioned, many of us still remember the brutal, knock-down fights that took place here in years past when there was no disease related news to discuss, and politics reared it's head. I can spend a little time and provide links if anyone needs their memory jogged, because I remember it being a lot uglier than this.

Med - if memory serves, there have been occasions in the past few years when you left the site because of the nature of the interactions here, and I don't think this is anywhere near as acrimonious. We've all weathered far worse. AFT is a good deal more civil these days, and I believe our current moderator group is responsible for that in no small part. They've fostered a different attitude in the past couple of years, and AFT has been more tightly focused on disease outbreaks than politics. Recent months are the exception, and hopefully not the rule.

That said, a lot - and I mean a lot - of recent threads have started with a distinct bias that has resulted in conflicting views being aired over multiple pages. Here's the thing, Med - you're the one starting many, if not most of those threads. I'm not saying that as a criticism, or to attempt to censor anyone, because I don't consider that to be my job. Like Techno, I take my role as moderator very seriously and try to walk a very narrow path between deliberately steering AFT in one direction, or doing too little to be of any use. Remember that none of us benefit in any meaningful way from inclusion
in the moderator group. Albert gave us certain privileges and
responsibilities, and an expectation that we behave in a certain way. In
many ways that sucks, because we all have political affiliations of one kind and another. Moderating ourselves while still exercising our freedom of speech feels like a tightrope at times, but it's necessary to keep the site useful and relevant. Whatever a "Social Justice Warrior" might be, AFT is in no way the intellectual property of any one group, and I think it does it an injustice to categorize it as such.

I try not to get too involved in the more heated discussions, because I don't want to give the appearance of a political slant for one simple reason - we're here to educate and empower people who feel the same way as we do, and to make them realize that their fears of some kind of societal collapse at the hands of a pandemic (or whatever you prep for) are indeed warranted and reasonable. That's everyone's responsibility - mods and regular members alike - and anyone using AFT as their own personal soapbox threatens that mission. Driving people away because of a perception that we lean too far
left or right serves no purpose, and potentially alienates people. Likewise, complaining that your thread is being ruined by others posting on it ignores one major point - we're all guests on equal footing here, and nobody should have any expectation of commenting exclusively. Post at your peril, and remember that you reap what you sow. And please don't expect the internet to be nice and respect your personal space above all others, because experience should have shown you by now that's it's not the case.

One more thing - demanding other people's credentials and questioning their right to post is not a road I think we need to go down. None of us (with maybe a few notable exceptions) share our real names or exact locations for a reason. Prepping is something that has to go on in the shadows to some extent and we need to respect that.

Unless it's gets really ugly, and someone breaches the accepted standard of behavior that we expect of everybody on AFT, I personally won't step in and censor anything. I do, however, ask that people respect this as a shared space, and not use it to espouse their own views at length.  There are no posting limits, but we're all adults and should be able to moderate ourselves. If you wake up with the burning need to educate everyone who doesn't agree with you, take a breath and consider whether you're ready for the potential backlash. Heat. Kitchen. That kind of thing.

Let's play nice, yeah?






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"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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FluMom View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2017 at 11:03am
I have avoided this forum because of all the political whining. I say move them so that we do not see this as the first postings everyday. If they want to complain put them in an area they or others who want to do this is not on the forefront of this forum. Or better yet let them start their own Whining Forum about our President.

This is NOT the forum or area for political bitching and downing our President.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2017 at 11:33am
- Nor singing his praises....................
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2017 at 11:35am
Clap
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"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2017 at 11:53am
Or both. Neither viewpoint should be given any more weight than the other.


"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2017 at 2:42pm
It is time for Albert to decide if this is a political forum or a prep forum for any disaster that hits especially Avian Flu.

I can tell you that I for one am visiting this forum from several times a day before the election to after the election one time a week maybe. I use to enjoy the discussions about disasters look no one is even talking about the hurricanes like we would have since this forum has changed.

It is time Albert for you to decide where this forum goes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2017 at 3:22pm
what is Gerneral disscusion ,if not for airing general views,you cant stimey debate,

and  to take politics seriously on a site like this is slliy,

people will say things on here to "wind you up"

i take it all with a pinch of salt,

i take seriously the FLU chat. 

but even them i do my own checking as one should

if you dont like the post ,dont open the box......easy as that ,

and take a chill pill,

come the slate wiper you made end up with a load of democrates.......LOL   Cool   Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2017 at 3:33pm
Sorry but when I come to this forum and all I see in Latest Posts is My Fear when Trump takes office...etc. and it is all Trump haters and nothing else is in the Latest Posts. I go away and I do not read these posts. But it seems lately that is all I see in Latest Posts.

Anyone coming to this forum like now on how to survive after the hurricane is going to get met with political crap not what they need. Is this what this forum is about...Up To Albert!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParanoidMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2017 at 8:04pm
Well said Flumom. I've been around for awhile myself. I would visit two or three times a day whether there was anything major happening our not. And I distinctly remember some threads that would get pretty ugly and the moderators would step in and remind us all to play nice. It isn't always a pleasant thing to do but I think they do a pretty good job 😀.

Carbon20- you may not realize it but you made a very good point about the General Discussion area. But probably not the way you intended. "General" basically means everything that is not specific news. Sort of all encompassing. "Politics" is very specific. It's right up there with "Religion."

I clearly remember religion being one of those topics that could create a firestorm unbelievably fast. In fact, the moderators suggested the Off Topic area for such things. And they moved certain threads when the need arose. There were certain people at the time that would deliberately stir the pot because they were locked onto having their say no matter what. In other words, exactly what has been happening with the political views hijacking all of the General Discussion and some of the Latest News.

I don't believe anyone is asking the subject to be censored or blocked. We're just asking for it to go somewhere else so that when we scan the General Discussion area we're not bombarded with political views no matter what the original point to the posting was.

Trust me when I say when certain people post, everyone knows their opinion and political views. We can also tell just how important it is for them to continually make their views known. It is said that patience is a virtue. For months now I've personally been quietly waiting for the constant overstated opinions to die out. And while I might be in the minority, I can honestly say it would be wonderful if I could learn new things, discuss a variety of issues and not have to cringe at the thought of wading through political garbage to do it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2017 at 9:08pm
Sorry to disagree....politics is ugly stuff, but it is directly related to what we discuss on this website. 

I've seen countless $millions of dollars wasted on H5N1 preparation = antiviral stockpiles that soon go out-of-date, NIOSH N-95 masks that are never replenished due to lack of political guidance, etc.  

Public health funding is a big football, and generally, Democrats seem to do better at it than Republicans. In the aftermath of 9/11 (happy anniversary, folks!) and the Anthrax-mail attacks (which originated within the public health system), the US Govt went crazy on funding all sorts of ill-conceived plans to protect the public - the Biowatch program, which should interest all of us, is a notorious example. 


I've tried to give Pres. Trump some props, but don't find that he's done much that is commendable for protection of the pubic.  The GOP has also been complicit.   For example: 

The authors write that the president's budget request, released in May, would reduce the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's AMR funding by 14 percent and place it within the Prevention and Public Health Fund, which the administration is seeking to repeal. The budget would also cut National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases funding, reducing development of new antimicrobial drugs, diagnostics, and vaccines. In addition, a proposed 51 percent cut to the U.S. Agency for International Development's global health programs would drastically impair the agency's ability to support antimicrobial stewardship and infection prevention.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2017 at 9:31pm
Fair point Doc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2017 at 2:27am
We created a separate political sub-forum, which is now located at the top of General Discussion.  We will start relocating the political posts to the new forum shortly.  

It's about that time to make the switch as flu season approaches.  This is also upon numerous requests.

Feel free to share your opinion on this change. 

Best to all,

Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParanoidMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2017 at 4:51am
What an amazing thing to wake up to! Thank you Albert!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2017 at 7:09am
Just to give everyone a heads up, anything posted there will still show up in the latest posts. If there's a lot of traffic, we won't see much of a change in that respect.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2017 at 8:39am
I find it ironic and hypocritical that the folks who start most of the political posts now want them moved! If they don't like them why do they post them? This happens every year and as Albert says "as flu season approaches" we'll all get back to why we came here in the first place! I think Chuck is right though, how do you separate what is politically relevant from what is purely political? Thankfully we have a great group of Mods but this just made their work a little harder!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2017 at 8:45am
Quite a bit harder!  I have tried to move a fairly old political thread.  I lost most of it!  I told Albert and asked how to do it.  

I still don't know.  

I am out all day tomorrow, so I can't do anything till Wednesday.  I don't suppose anyone who asked for the move would like to try and do this...............................
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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