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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic; Now tracking the Aussie Flu.

BF Virus Artifically Created?

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    Posted: February 27 2006 at 5:00am

Bird flu virus may have been artificially created - expert

TBILISI. Feb 27 (Interfax) - The H5N1 bird flu virus, which is dangerous for humans, might have been artificially created, Georgian biologist Dmitry Kipiani said on Georgian Imedi radio on Monday.

"We cannot be certain about this but there is some circumstantial evidence, including the unsolved murders of renowned micro-biologists in some countries," he said.

The former Soviet Union developed biological weapons for decades. "This information is not a secret, it can be found on the Internet," he said.

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/politics/28.html?id_issue=1147088 7

Speculation is the only tool we have with a threat that can circle the globe in 30 days. Test results&news is slow.Factor in human conditions,politics, money&bingo!The truth!Facts come after the fact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote libbyalex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 5:17am
I just read this too!!! Holy smokes.... This is absolutely creepy. Especially as I am reading The STand for the first time.... -- Libby, who hasn't even had a full cup of coffee yet and is hoping she's only dreaming this
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 6:50am
What proof is there for this claim?  This biologist does not give any.  Bird flu has been around for a long time (it was the confirmed cause for the 1918 flu).  While it could be said that several countries have the biological warfare capabilities to do this, it is equally possible (and more probable) that it was caused by overpopulation of birds and people, creating situations where both are coming in close contact with each other leading to viral mutations and the spread of disease.  Every bad situation is not necessarily due to to a political conspiracy. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calendula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 6:58am

No harm or offense intended, but as Naturopathic doctor/practitioner/consultant myself, I do not understand how Virusil can come right up and postulate that SIlver is the magical silver bullet to "cure" or treat this virus or any other disease for that matter, first rule taught in Naturopathic/Natural Health school, " we do not diagnose, prescribe, we can only educate and enpower the client with factual and/or supportive research in order for them to make the best or appropriate decisions regarding their physical, mental state"  it is unethical to our profession to express ourselves in that mode. 

I am not here to reason, I am here to create"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virusil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 7:06am
as a naturopath i am not afraid to be jailed.i prefer to be persecuted than to hide the truth,this is ethics.beside as a human i have to enlighten other humans,this is ethics.silver is hot topic.........because it cure.because it is natural.affordable
ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elbows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 7:27am
Silver has some proven uses, it was very popular before antibiotics were invented. It is being used in the battle against MRSA, it can be applied to surfaces to prevent Staph from surviving on them.

Overingestion of silver can cause argyria, leading to a bluish-gey tint of skin, mucous membranes etc. Silver is not toxic, but its use is still controvertial, some silver salts have been implicated as being carcinogenic.

I havent looked at silver in relation to influenza viruses, I imagine not enough research has been done, but this will be explained by some as a conspiracy to keep the masses from understanding the benefits of silver. I find it likely that the reality is somewhat more complex than that.

As for whether H5N1 has been artificially created, well how am I or any of us supposed to know? We know that in theory it is possible to manipulate influenza in the lab, it would be possible for humans to tamper with H5N1 and change some of its attributes. But that doesnt mean that this is what happened, influenza is clearly capable of doing plenty of stuff without the intervention of humans.

The stuff about dead microbiologists has been on various websites for many years, initially people were trying to tie it into the anthrax attacks. Certainly some of the deaths are suspicious, but we rally dont know if we are joining the right dots or not.

Then there is the question of who would of done it, and motive. Clearly there are many countries who have been playing around with biological agents for many decades. Peoples existing bias'es are likely to be the main factor in who they decide is responsible, eg Georgia has traditionally been dominated by the soviets, so its understandable that he will point the finger at them. Others may see China, North Korea, USA, Britain, as likely candidates.

Pretty much everytime some new disease comes along, some think it is manmade. People wondered if SARS was some Chinese experiment gone wrong. People wondered if AIDS could have been man-made. In the pandemic of 1918, some people in the USA blamed the Germans for it (due to world war 1).

What would the motive be? Its not sensible to release an agent that can affect the whole world, biological weapons are supposed to be targetted at a particular 'enemy'. Some will get round this by saying that the nation responsible has stockpiled vaccine, but this would become a bit obvious when a pandemic arrives, so theyd be caught red-handed?

Need evidence, not just people saying stuff.

Take the 1977 re-emergence of H1N1. There is some scientific basis for believing that this may have been released by man accidentally. This is because the strain that emerged in 1977 was identical to a strain that had been isolated in the 1950's and used in labs. If the 1977 re-emergence had been a natural event, we would of expected it to have mutated away from the 1950's strain somewhat, but it hadnt. So the theory is that after the 1976 H1N1 swine scare in the USA, lots of labs around the world started preparing for a H1N1 vaccine. Someone had an accident with lab biosecurity when messing with live H1N1, and it got out and spread across the globe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ella Fitzgerald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 7:33am

The BF virus has been around for years. I'm not going to give credit to a story of 3 sentences.

 

Pandemics Happen!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virusil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 7:33am
follow the money line and you will end up to rumsfield,selling worthless tamiflu
ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elizabeth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 7:39am
Shouldn't this be under the speculation section?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virusil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 7:43am
rumsfield put aspartame on the market and now other nasties in the skyfollow the money please
ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 7:56am

If anyone is interested, this is the link to view information about silver from the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR).  While ATSDR primarily deals with occupational chemical exposures, you might find the information informative. 

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/phs146.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virusil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 8:05am
the funny thing is simple unless you drink  it you will not notice that it will cure you,this noble metal is the only saviour that i know from my practice,for the instance of truth,i will be not without my silversolution,keep your rumsfield tamiflu concotionand i will keep my silver solutionhow about that solutionthis is moderationa lot of lies were said about silver a lot............but i can sayone thing about it.it works
ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elbows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 8:10am
Oh youve had H5N1 bird flu and survived by taking silver then?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virusil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 8:14am

according to the medical journal lancet,tamiflu is worthless,dick cheney know that and he tried to purchase organo oilin barrels,ask your self the question whysilver is on the front page of civil defence web page .

tacda.org.

chek this page pleasedo the math survive

ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virusil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 8:18am
go to     sanosil       ,  site make a search it is on their front page it was tested.silver is efficient on h5 n1
ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elbows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 8:37am
As I said earlier, Silver has some proven uses, Im not trying to dispute that.

What I am disputing is whether there is any evidence that ingesting silver will help someone who has caught H5N1.

Sanosil have tested one of their detergents that has silver in it, and found it kills influenza including H5. Buts its a detergent, cant drink that, these tests have nothing to do with whether silver helps humans fight H5N1, just that silver can kill viruses & bacteria that exist on surfaces etc.

tacda is not an official civil defense site, looks like it was setup in the 60's after cuban misile crisis, some people werent happy that governemnt civil defense program was being downsized so they setup their own. They sell stuff. They talk about silver in the context of being useful against biological agents. not bird flu specifically.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virusil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 8:43am
sanosil is silver and hydrogene perxyde,it is the combination of those two that deactivate viruses,being in or being out of the body a virus is a virus and it is killed by that.after more than 12 years in practice i think that i can say it works,not less than 250000 of bottles efficiency more than 98% positive results,this is the silver bullet.
ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 8:46am
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Hi! This is what Emergency Essentials has to say about Colloidal Silver. Dunno if it's any help in this discussion. I already have some in my preparedness supply because it seemed to be benificial in so many different ways(outside BF). You can order it with a book that gives you all the applications and information for this product. I have the book if you want me to look something up but I don't have it with me by the computer right now.  Fritz :>}
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elbows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 8:48am
Yes Virusil but more care has to be taken when trying to eliminate virusus within a body, because you dont want to kill the body with the cure.

What exactly are you recommending people do with silver? I certainly hope you arent telling people to drink something that contains hydrogen peroxide?

I mean, you can kill influenza viruses by heating them up to 70 degrees C, but thats no cure for humans is it, because you will cook them!

Also just because something can kill viruses on surfaces etc, doesnt mean this action will definately also happen within a human body, its more complex than that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elbows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2006 at 8:50am
Fritz that stuff is mostly just marketing. What Im looking for is scientific studies into the potential of silver to fight influenza within the human body.
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