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No Brexit =The end of democracy

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Technophobe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: No Brexit =The end of democracy
    Posted: September 17 2019 at 12:47pm
No arguments from me on that one, Carbon.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2019 at 11:49pm

I think you can say that about the Human race.....
12 Monkeys...............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2019 at 10:29am
Sadly, Carbon: NO CHANCE! Just look at the same racial mix in Glasgow.

The supporters of Glasgow Rangers are Scots who think they are English and the supporters of Glasgow Celtic are Scots who know they are Irish. Violence at games between these two "Old Firm" teams is common and widespread.

As a point of interest: I am 1/4 Scottish, 1/4 Welsh and 1/2 Irish. I'm mean when crossed! The old joke of: "For me Father he was Orange and me Mother she was Green." applies to me. My childhood was quite violent. My original understanding of marriage was an excuse to try to kill each other.

My whole race are a bunch of violent a***h***s! I can say it!
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2019 at 4:25pm
I agree Techno,(odd that lol)

However:

The violence might stop ,because England has been taken out of the equation,

All the Unionists would be entitled to go to the mainland ,

On boats as refugees....

Fleeing,,...

Catholic oppression.......LMAO



12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 13 2019 at 12:36pm
As an example of "history-mix";

From https://www.gelderlander.nl/arnhem-e-o/prins-charles-opent-de-toren-van-de-arnhemse-eusebiuskerk~a98c1c47/

google translate;

ARNHEM - The English prince Charles opens the restored tower of the Eusebius church in Arnhem on Saturday 21 September. There he unveils a plaque in honor of 75 years of the Battle of Arnhem and visits the church.

He also comes to the Polish memorial in Driel, where the Polish paratroopers are commemorated who were involved in Operation Market Garden in World War II.

Crowded
The Prince of Wales has a packed program that Saturday. It was previously announced that he is visiting the Airborne Museum in Oosterbeek and that he and Princess Beatrix are present at the commemoration of the air landings on the Ginkelse Heide.

The Eusebiuskerk was almost completely destroyed during the Battle of Arnhem. Only the broken tower still stood above the ruins of the city. A day before Charles' visit there is a memorial in the church with a large number of international guests and veterans. Charles himself was also 25 years ago at a memorial ceremony in the church.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2019 at 3:58pm
Although (being mostly Irish) I would love to see the country re-unified, I suspect this would just mean the other side became the guerilla freedom fighters/terrorists (depending on your viewpoint). Ireland would now bear the majority of the "troubles".

Ireland is not sure she wants this.

Worse, the loyalist side was quite nasty when they were on the winning side. God alone knows how they would take being on the losing one - (and he/she remains silently mysterious).

This one will not go away so easily. Whatever the outcome, someone will get the hump and behave atrociously.

There are even Republican marches to match the Orange ones. "Nah na na na na, we beat you!" is not confined to one childish side alone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2019 at 1:48am
Yes be good for Europe to deal with Ireland's

Secterian violence....

Free Ireland from the Brit's......

LMAO
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2019 at 11:31pm
When Northern Ireland would become Irish-the "religion problem" would become Irish as well.

A compromise could be to exclude N.Ireland from the Brexit. But that would suggest some sort of deal...

(William III/Willem also hints at the European link-William was also ruling the Dutch Republic back then.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2019 at 10:25pm
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2019 at 10:19pm
Northern Ireland....

Give it all back to the Irish....

That would stop the silly
Orange Day parades.....(Williams fault)

Let's get over 600 years of Occupation by the

British

There solved.....lol

That's speaking as my Father's son....

The Irish side of me....

Think others will Wail....lol
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2019 at 10:18pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_IRA_attacks_in_the_Netherlands

DJ-One of the Brexit-points that need(ed) good clarification is how to deal with (Northern) Ireland.

"We" (as a person, Dutch, European) can not accept that a hard Brexit starts another civil war in Ireland (out of stupidity). One thingh we have learned is that terrorism is hardly ever isolated.

A restart of terrorism in Ireland will-most likely-mean an increase of (this time "nationalistic") terrorism elsewere.

Another point is-would it be a good idea to say you need a minimum of ten years (for instance) between referendums on the same issue (wether Scottish independence-wich may see Scotland becoming an EU member, or the Brexit) ?

UK politics failed in starting the Brexit-proces (by having a referendum) without a good plan. (The EU also should have rules for exit. In a way they have-a expensive legal cost proces for unbinding al kind of treaties/contracts etc.)

651 forms of Brexit=political failure !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2019 at 6:46pm
What gets me is each politician keeps crapping on about "their"
Electorate,when in fact they should follow through with what the MAJORITY voted for....

Brexit.....
12 Monkeys...............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2019 at 2:17pm
You can't replay the original referendum; that would insult/negate/ignore the first result. What is done should stand. Anything else is undemoctatic by default.

You can clarify: What type of brexit? When? How? etc.. This probably should be done. Part of our current problems stem from the lack of clarity about what berxit means.

Another problem stems from the fact that out of the 650 House of Commons members, there are 651 versions of an ideal brexit.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2019 at 4:52am
Not what you say....

It's the way you say it.....

Or the way it's percivied

Or portrayed in the media/cyberworld
12 Monkeys...............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2019 at 10:39pm
One problem here, is that people do change their minds, and somehow democracy has to account for that. Usually it is a voting again after a period of time (usually 4 to 6 years in various western parliamentary democracies). Because of this there should be a second vote, after people had time to see what their first vote actually meant. *

A close referendum is not really a clear sign either way. The trouble is a new Brexit Referendum might also be close! Also the wording of referendums can be slanted to give a desired result. The current UK mess seems to be in part because there where three main divisions but the referendum only gave two choices. The three are a)Leave at any cost b) Leave with a deal   c) Remain.


* I also think that this should apply if the SNP gets the chance for another vote on Scottish Independence.    Too often people only have a vague idea of what they want, and when shown the results of what they asked for they often say "That's not really what I wanted".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2019 at 3:05am
Exactly! Right or wrong, WILL OF THE PEOPLE!

As regards Scottish independence:

Although second referenda are usually taking the P*** (Best of three, 5, 7, 9? - Ive got to get the result I want in the end!) , I believe this to be an exception. The referendum on independence was both tight and just before the EU referendum. Most Scots voted to remain in the EU. I think the terms have changed fundamentally as a result. I would prefer to remain in the United Kingdom, but Democracy first!! Alpha and Omega!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2019 at 11:02pm
Techno,you are not the only person I know to say that Democracy comes FIRST AND FOREMOST,even some Remainers have said it too me

The People voted OUT .....

So that what it MUST BE

For Good or Bad ......

It's the will of the MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE......
12 Monkeys...............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2019 at 10:49pm
Some "news"/statistics;

Dutch investments in UK 2016 50 bilion € 2018 -11 bilion €
UK investments in Netherlands 14 "        2018 80 bilion €

speaking of "oligarchy" or "every € counts-democracy".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2019 at 9:46pm
Techno, Willoby, how does the "brexit-chaos" (created, planned-I can not see it in another way) work out for Scottish independence ? Is there a chance for a new referendum on that ?

In my opinion maybe also a referendum in Ireland over Northern Ireland. The "troubles" (=civil war) did cost 1000's of lives and meant "IRA "moderate rebels" (partly funded from the US) were all over Europe doing bussiness with other "groups" (terrorists) and countries like Libya.

I also think EU is moving towards EurAsia integration, the UK may be moving towards the US/NAFTA. Your opinion(s) ?

We-and France-voted against the EU constitution, only to see it changed in a treaty. The oligarchy never gives up power. Money=power. Democracy is a way to avoid uprising. (But it is acting, theatre).
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2019 at 5:37pm
Ok so the politicians do not like the vote but I would not let them get a do over vote. That would make votes mean nothing. People need to take to the streets and tell them to GET OUT! Time for the Brits to stand up and tell the politicians to do what you told them to do!!!

I did that when we had the Viet Nam war along with a lot of others...it worked.
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