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US on the brink of civil war

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KiwiMum View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 28 2017 at 2:37pm
This news story appeared in the New Zealand Press this morning. Enjoy. 


OPINION: "Try to impeach him, just try it. You will have a spasm of violence in this country, an insurrection like you've never seen. The people will not stand for impeachment. A politician that votes for it would be endangering their own life."

That is the frightening prediction of the American right-wing activist, Roger Stone, one of US President Donald Trump's most outspoken supporters.

Stone, himself, has many painful personal memories of the impeachment process. He was, after all, an official in the administration of President Richard Nixon.

US President Donald Trump arrives at a campaign rally in Phoenix, Arizona, on August 22.
JOSHUA ROBERTS/REUTERS

US President Donald Trump arrives at a campaign rally in Phoenix, Arizona, on August 22.

But, a lot has changed in 40 years.

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In 2017, Stone warns, impeaching a sitting Republican president might not be so easy: "Both sides are heavily armed ... This is not 1974. The people will not stand for impeachment." Asked if he was predicting civil war, Stone replied unequivocally: "Yes, that's what I think will happen."

Donald Trump still has considerable support among "a socially disaffected rump".
YURI GRIPAS/REUTERS

Donald Trump still has considerable support among "a socially disaffected rump".

Nonsense? Not according to the editorial writers of New Zealand's own Listener magazine: "Were Trump either to quit in pique and frustration or, worse, be removed by either of the legal means available, the US would risk being plunged into civic unrest on an unknowable scale."

Drawing its readers' attention to the "considerable" support that Trump still commands among "a socially disaffected rump", the Listener argues that his diehard supporters "might not hesitate to form militias and try to instigate civil war".

How has it come to this? How has the greatest republic the world has ever known been led to the edge of such a profound political abyss? A more useful line of questioning might begin with another, albeit related, question: How has the American republic avoided dissolution for so long? Because the most astonishing historical fact about the United States of America is that it is still with us.

It very nearly wasn't. Had anyone but Abraham Lincoln won the 1860 presidential election, it is highly unlikely that the United States as we know it would have survived. Either, the American South's "peculiar institution" of slavery would have obliged its anti-slavery Northern neighbours to undertake a long and painful retreat from the "self-evident" truths of the American revolution. Or, the North American continent would have been divided between the "United", and the "Confederate", States of America.

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Lincoln forestalled both of these outcomes – but only at enormous cost. The casualties inflicted during the American Civil War of 1861-65 still outnumber all the casualties sustained by the USA in all subsequent conflicts – including World Wars I and II.

What's more, the terrible political wounds opened up by the Civil War: essentially a conflict about the economic and social role of Race in American society; have never properly healed.

Lincoln's successors brave attempt to vindicate the sacrifices of the Civil War: the so-called "Reconstruction Period"; lasted barely a decade. Equality between Southern blacks and whites could only be enforced by the bayonets of the occupying Union Army.

Its withdrawal, in 1877, was followed by the brutal subjugation and virtual re-enslavement of the black population by the white. The means adopted: illegal terror by the Ku Klux Klan, reinforced by the institutional repression of "Jim Crow" segregation laws, received no early constitutional reproof from the Supreme Court.

The federal government thereby signalled its willingness to see established, across the South, racist political regimes that can only be described as "proto-fascist".

Accordingly, when critics of the Alt-Right demonstrators in Charlottesville denounce their "fascist" tactics as foreign to American democracy, they're mistaken.

The much more unpalatable truth is that many of the political motifs we associate with European fascism were actually borrowed from America.

Torchlight parades, for example, date all the way back to the 1832 campaign of America's first populist president, Andrew Jackson. Klansmen's robes may, similarly, have inspired Mussolini's black-shirts and Hitler's stormtroopers.

And anyone who believes that the Nazi Party invented the mass political rally should take a look at any American party convention, or the news photographs of 50,000 robed Klansmen marching down Pennsylvania Ave in 1924.

Racism, and the fascistic trappings that give it political momentum, are as American as apple-pie.

Indeed, it is possible to argue that the Kennedy/Johnson-led Democratic Administrations' successful efforts to abolish Jim Crow and end Klan terror in the early-1960s have been the primary drivers of American politics ever since. Be it Nixon's 1968 "Southern Strategy"; Reagan's upholding of "State's Rights" in 1980; or, Trump's 2016 "Let's make America GREAT again!" (i.e. "WHITE" again) campaign slogan; the Republicans have been the party of race-based politics for nearly 50 years. That President Obama was followed by President Trump is no historical accident.

Tragically, the Republican Party has made itself a willing hostage to the political terror and unconstitutional objectives that have always marched in lock-step with the advance of America's white supremacist traditions. Defeating both may well require a second civil war.

 - Stuff

If it is to be, it is up to me.
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Medclinician View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2017 at 4:44pm
I agree with you. We are on the verge of a Civil war and anarchy in the streets. But while they play beat up the fat republican kids in Berkley - they will have immigrants with weapons flooding in the move from house to house shooting people and these will be memories of a fallen country.

Medclinician
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2017 at 9:22pm
Med, are you in America? 

I've only ever changed planes there, but I get the impression that there are more guns per capita head there than anywhere else on earth, so at least when the civil war starts it'll all be over in a flash as everyone will shoot someone else and then get shot themselves. 
If it is to be, it is up to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2017 at 2:07am
Originally posted by Medclinician Medclinician wrote:

I agree with you. We are on the verge of a Civil war and anarchy in the streets. But while they play beat up the fat republican kids in Berkley - they will have immigrants with weapons flooding in the move from house to house shooting people and these will be memories of a fallen country.

Medclinician



Sorry Med, but that's ridiculous. Your hatred for immigrants is beginning to seriously cloud your judgement, and your posts are becoming more and more alarmist with little to back them up but your imagination. Yes, we're in a period of great change and Trump is the cause of much of it, but to continually allude to widespread anarchy in the streets and immigrants running riot is bordering on delusional. There are protests - Trump's archaic pre-civil rights policies are quite rightly pissing off a lot of people - but it's not the way you portray it. Not by a long way. Anyone reading your posts from outside the US would have an image of a country in upheaval with rioting on every corner, and nothing could be further from the truth. Seriously - get a grip.
I don't doubt that an impeachment would almost certainly be met with protests (and I'm sure violence) by his supporters, but a full blown civil war is not going to happen.








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2017 at 4:01am
What he said!
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2017 at 6:49am
What they said!!
Buy more ammo!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2017 at 1:47pm
Jim Bakker and Charles M. Blow agree: Trump is pushing America toward a new neo-Christian Civil War

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/9/1/1695351/-Jim-Bakker-and-Charles-M-Blow-agree-Trump-is-pushing-America-toward-a-new-neo-Christian-Civil-War

"

"According to The Hill, Bakker told audiences of his “Prophecy & End Time News” show that “if [impeachment] happens, there will be a civil war in the United States of America.”

“The Christians will finally come out of the shadows,” Bakker continued, “because we are going to be shut up permanently if we’re not careful.”

“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2017 at 10:47pm
Full disclosure....I train with the FBI, these are the types of agents that the so-called "rebels" will face if they raise arms against the US Constitution.  These are FBI SWAT team members...deadly shots, all of them.   Don't believe this "civil war" hokum, the Far Right have tried a number of times = Ruby Ridge etc. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2017 at 11:12am
Is that the Jim Bakker who was imprisoned for accounting fraud?





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2017 at 12:12pm
As far as I can tell, yes.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker

I like to check anything I find on Wikipedia out for myself, as anyone can update it and some stupid nerds share a nasty sense of humor.  But, I would not personally know the guy from Adam, so I am a bit out of my league on this one.  Assuming this article has not been penned by an idiot, or got at, yes.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2017 at 1:59pm
Watch this idiot Nazi (Richard Preston) fire at a counter-protester at Charlottesville!  


LOL!!  He has to chamber a round, doesn't appear to hit anyone, and now HE'S IN JAIL!!  


If this is what the "armed uprising" will be like when Trump is dragged out of office, I don't think it will take very long to eliminate the threat to the US Constitution.  

Be safe! 


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