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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic.

Vitamin Rant

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onefluover View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 20 2015 at 8:53pm
I've been saying since long before these studies that vitamins are a bunch of crap. All vitamins. I don't care which ones or who's pushing them or why. They all derive from the healthy whole foods we're supposed to be eating.

The people who pushed vitamins on us are the same people who ruined my cigarettes. On the surface in the name of my health (while now we know the new cigarettes are far worse). The same people who are intent on replacing cigarettes with marijuana. Well, I say get off my road before I run you over.

If you don't get this then you didn't do your homework and here's why:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3047416/Supplements-increases-risk-heart-disease-cancer-study-warns.html
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Kay View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2015 at 9:06pm
Moderation in taking vitamins probably is okay, but it should be up to the individual.  What do you think of the do gooders and e smoking.  Plenty of people have quit blowing smoke and they still aren't happy.  Wish the government would butt out.  All the drugs killing people and ruining lives and they worry about the small stuff.  Makes me sick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onefluover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2015 at 10:08pm
Yeah, I don't have a clue what those e-cigs are. Makes me think of having a steak dinner by watching a video of it.

My gripe over cigarettes is this: the state of California litterally gave me for scott free with no questions asked as many cigarettes as I could possibly smoke in a day. Every day. About 100,000 of them. Since I was 12. All to keep me passified so I wouldnt tear up their facilities which I did anyways.

Though I had dabbled in cigarettes prior to this, I wasn't really a "smoker" until I met them. And now that I'm good and hooked they went and fundementally changed how cigarettes burn -or the lack of. The FSC mess. I now smoke rollies like a homeless person because the rollies escaped regulations and don't have the harsh fire retardants.

I know smoking is gross. I don't pretend to defend them as some kind of health hazard hoax though I will say that it seems that everyone around me caughs all the time and I don't. Not even when I'm sick. I dunno. Maybe if I could look at cigarettes as just another vitamin, maybe I could finely quit them.
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Technophobe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2015 at 8:30am
Budda said:  "Everything in moderation, nothing in excess."  This applies to vitamins and minerals too.  

Modern diets are generally very good for vitamins.  They contain all you need and then some.  This is not the case for minerals.  Unlike vitamins, minerals are not destroyed by processing.  This leads people to assume that the mineral content of food is unaffected.  'Not so.  Like a suitcase with the handles broken off, the protein chelation which renders the minerals absorbable is denatured.  So they go in one end, and - promptly, out the other.

Yet still  people buy vitamins, pointlessly.  Sadly, hardly anyone buys chelated mineral supplements .

There are a few good uses for vitamin supplements however, giving up smoking is one of them.

Massive doses of pyridoxine (B6) taken, for a month, drastically reduces the craving and withdrawal symptoms of nicotine withdrawal.  (It resembles nicotine quite closely in chemical structure and produces a similar, but more permanent, effect to it.)  

B6 in massive doses taken over a very long time (years) is a risk factor for liver cancer.  But, it is fairly safe for a month and far less risky than the dangers of cigarettes.

I would like to protect the idiots from themselves as much as possible, but, I want to protect those bright enough to work this out more.  So I have to side with Kay on this one.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2015 at 5:38pm
I take B12 regularly because of my diet - vegetarians and vegans are typically deficient and that definitely leads to increased levels of heart disease. I just had some bloodwork done, and my B12 is actually pretty high these days. I also make sure I get healthy dose of omega 3 by adding chia seeds or flaxmeal to oatmeal or cereal, and my wife often bakes with flaxmeal. Fish used to do the job for most people, but heavy metals are starting to show up in alarming concentrations so it's not such a good idea anymore. I don't take multivitamins on a regular basis simply because I tend to forget, and then I find the bottle a year or two later filled with fuzzy tablets that would probably kill me more than help me.

Hey, onefluover - how are you doing with your blood pressure these days (probably not so good after that opening post)?



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"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onefluover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2015 at 7:08pm
Yeah I know, that was kind of rude. Sorry but I'm in an awnery mood all of a sudden. Well... A more awnery mood. My BP is still high but a little lower. Headaches still frequent but not as and less intense since I cut out cafinated coffee.

I took a packet of multi vitamins once against my rathers and they made me very sick to my stomache. Ever since then I've hated them but I truthfully know that not all are poison. I just don't know which ones are OK. Myself I've just written them all off as hippie snake oil. Sorry.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2015 at 8:45pm
If our food had the nutrients that they were designed to have we would not have to take supplements.

But the land is depleted of these nutrients due to not following the creators instructions which was to let the land lay fallow every seventh year.

Selenium is on example, it is missing from our food.

When we were created we were given an immune system that was to protect us and heal us when bad things happen to our body. But like a plumber who you call when you have a leak if he shows up without his tools he can not fix the leak. This is what is wrong with our immune system it does not have the tools (vitamins, minerals and essential fatty acids) to fix the problem or protect the body. This also leads to the body demanding more food and we increase our belt size due to the quantity of food we are eating trying to get the required quantity of vitamins and minerals our body needs. 

Research how much of the vitamins or minerals that you are taking is absorbed into your body. You will be shocked at what you find out.

A business man in Florida said he was in the vitamin business, he owned a sani-can business. He said he could still read the labeling on the pills he pumped out or the cans on Florida golf courses.  Not much absorption going on. What a waste of money and deceit to the people that are taking those over the counter pills thinking they are now getting the daily requirements of vitamins and minerals. 


Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2015 at 2:45am
The need for chelation (pronounced key-lay-shun, Greek not Latin root-word) applies to mineral supplements as well as foodstuffs. 

OHC is spot on about selenium being absent/deficient  in our foods.  Modern farming/food processing methods are also responsible for deficiencies in boron (arthritis), copper (arterial wall weakness and aneurisms), zinc (immune deficiency and arterial clogging), chromium (type II diabetes) and those are just the ones that spring to mind without looking anything up.  Low selenium drastically increases your cancer risk, by the way.  A lack of potassium can be the reason for high blood pressure Oneflu'.

He is right about the pressure deficiencies put on your appetite too.  I suspect, it is only one reason among many for our expanding waistlines - or I would be much thinner, but a valid reason nonetheless.

Quite a few vitamin deficiencies turn up from our lifestyles too.  JD (I'm back to being your yes-man) is right about vegans and B12.  Fat avoiders and those who hate fish, who live in the gloomier parts of the world than sunny CA, need D and sometimes E too.  Vegetable refusers need folic acid and C.  And anyone with a tendency to crumble under stress needs all the Bs. A helps out all the above and also preserves the sight and slows down the progress of emphysema.  So they definitely have their place.  The WHO recommendations for minimum vitamin requirements are the minimum for survival, not for good health and they take no account of those who require a slight variation from the norm.

Many people do buy vitamins unnecessarily.  This is more controlled by fashion than need.  Oneflu', if you want to raise your potassium intake, a banana a day is safer, nicer and a more natural potassium provider than anything in a bottle.  You can take this a bit further by avoiding nitrates in your diet (potassium nitrate, sodium nitrate and amonnium nitrate: ingredients of bacon, ham, corned beef, sausages and salami).  I suspect your bad reaction was more likely to have been caused by a non-vitamin ingredient in your bottle of vitamins such as a preservative or colourant.  Our modern society seems to be hell-bent on poisoning us.  Preservatives are the most insidious.  Corpses used to take 1-3 days to start rotting, now most people are still fresh after 2 weeks because of the preservatives in the body from our food.  I would rather live longer and rot faster.

You can overdose on most vitamins too.  This can be every bit as nasty as too little.

A single pill of a good quality vitamin-and-mineral-combined supplement daily is a good safety net.  But, avoid going above this without a lot of research.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onefluover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2015 at 6:05am
Thanks Techno. You are right. It all comes down to ballence. Some supplementary vitamins and minerals are needed by those with unusual eating habits or other circumstances. My dads recent ECG, his doctor and home nurses all missed the fact that he has recently been developing Brady cardia. I do and log his vitals every day without fail. His bpm has often dropped to a dangerously low 30's. He's on a water pill. And a big fat potassium pill to counter the potassium-drop effect from the water pill. Well he mostly refuses to take his water pill. But still takes his potassium. I've determined that his Brady cardia is most likely being caused by or being contributed to by an overdose of potassium. We've corrected that in that he now only takes the two pills together. His bpm has gone back up to the happier 50's. I've explained all this to his doctor and nurses and they shockingly don't seem to quite understand what took me but a few moments of research to figure out. Not to mention that I figured out why his blood sugar was stuck in the mid 300's and in just three weeks helped bring it down to the low 100's. I discovered that aside from not taking his insulin at all, he had stockpiled a few bottles and when he did take it he was using the oldest first. It was expired by like a whole year and only has a shelf life of days. So I'm no doctor -or nurse, and probably missed the mark on the vitamin issue, or maybe just a poor choice of words but I know a little bit about some things me guess.
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Kay View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Kay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2015 at 10:12am
Sounds like you know quite a bit.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2015 at 2:07pm
It sounds like you know tons to me as well.  

One of the reasons I love this site so much is the exchange of info.  I keep learning tons every day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onefluover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2015 at 6:01pm
Aww, thanks. Both of you. I'm a lot like one of the charactors on Game of Thrones. Both loved and hated. Smart and stupid... I will say that that man -or woman- is still alive though.

Edit. This forum is made up of knowledgeable, smart and interesting people. I can't seem to get that anywhere else is why I'm here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2015 at 12:55am
Onefluover, you could well be right - potassium levels outside of the norm can cause the heart muscle to become irritable, and bradycardia could well be an indication of that. Sounds like you've got it under control, thankfully. The normal range of 3.5-5.0 mEq/L can often be way off from person to person - I've personally known someone that survived a spike of over 12 mEq/L, which is absolutely insane.


"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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