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Why China will step in and stop North Korea

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Medclinician View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 21 2017 at 4:44pm
Having heard a lot of opinions there are some basic facts and also realities of the current situation which involves, the U.S., North Korea, South Korea, and China. 

The bottom line is that North Korea is willing to accept a nuclear North Korea rather than be attacked and lose Seoul for starters.  They no longer back the U.S. in any type of military action or aggressive action to stop Kim Jung Un.

The other viable option is to give Japan and North Korea nuclear bombs to protect themselves. Having Japan as a nuclear power that close to China would be one of China's worst nightmares. And this really is all about China who has already violated 6 of the 7 sanctions passed by the U.N. which they voted on and helped pass.

Do not be surprised if China backs away from North Korea and they are currently getting ready to cut them off banking wise.

The South Korean government does not really care about the U.S. They would not step in to fight with us if Guam were nuked and after all this work and money - they have left Trump flying solo in any kind of military action.

No one wants the war. And the money people will not let it happen. They lose far more sleep over losing money than how many dead people there will be. And China needs us, with a

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-china-trade-deficit-causes-effects-and-solutions-3306277


$347 billion trade deficit with the U.S. in 2016.

If we go down money wise so does China and probably the rest of the world as well including Russia.

You are going to see more headlines now as Trump will be amazed - I don't think he gets it yet - how China will put a large boot on North Korea.  

There is a lot of saber rattling - but it would be Republican suicide if there was a military attack that wiped out North Korea. We would never stop seeing videos of dying people and bleeding heart stories from bleeding heart liberals and Genghis Trump who would be called a mass murderer and whatever else could be dug up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan

It is really difficult to believe if China cut them off, if North Korea could get enough money from Iran and others ignoring the sanctions to keep it together.

I truly believe China at this point is trying to put together a Plan B. If not they will have a nuclear Japan and as they continue to expand in the South China Sea and it is a wonder they haven't claimed Japan - they certainly are claiming more nearer and nearer it.

Expect the unexpected. China will do something to stop North Korea.

Medclinician
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2017 at 4:51pm
This post was posted twice. No idea why. Please delete.

Med
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2017 at 5:41pm
I think you got a little confused there, Med.  Seoul is in South Korea and America wants to DISarm North Korea.

China has reneged on all its agreements regarding Nk so far, this will probably turn out the same.

Ps.  We all think ourselves the embodiment of wisdom, but you are the first I have ever seen quote himself.   Once is enough, buddy.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2017 at 5:52pm
Can I recommend 2.5mg of phenobarbitone, Med.  It helps with attacks of stress related fits. 
I like Ike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2017 at 7:21pm

Mnuchin Calls on World to Cut 'All Trade and Financial Ties' to North Korea

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/mnuchin-calls-on-world-to-cut-all-trade-and-financial-ties-to-north-korea/ar-AAsjY45?li=BBnb7Kz


highly unlikely that nations like Russia,China or Iran will cease trade


but


I have to give Trump some brownie points for this move

this is certainly stronger than anything Clinton,Bush or Obama did


"They can choose to do business with the United States or with North Korea, but not both," Mnuchin said of global banks and financial institutions. "This is targeted at North Korea and anybody that wants to do trade or business with them."

Trump's order – which the president said "significantly expands our authorities to target individuals, companies, [and] financial institutions that finance and facilitate trade with North Korea" – was unveiled at a luncheon meeting with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and South Korean President Moon Jae-in.




“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2017 at 3:41am
Originally posted by WillobyBrat WillobyBrat wrote:

Can I recommend 2.5mg of phenobarbitone, Med.  It helps with attacks of stress related fits. 


Actually this was a moment of clarity - which my programmer of CDN sometimes calls an epiphany. We were discussing the options left to the U.S. and there really aren't many.

Going over the history of the relationship of the U.S. and South Korea all the way back to the Korean War is becomes rather clear that in no way is our alliance with South Korea really an alliance to protect America. It is all about them and not about our country at all.

Perhaps in our efforts to find a place to station our military nearer to the Russians and Chinese we have failed to end a war that never actually stopped.

We have doomsday Christians predicting the end of the World tomorrow and Fox today saying Hawaii is preparing for a nuclear attack. Perhaps you should send the meds to them. All I take are blood thinners and bp meds after my full fledged heart attack on August 22. My mind is better than ever and this is vouched for by my once a year shrink and I have no mental illness of any kind. In fact, you might want to save those for yourself if you area is hit by a nuclear missile. It is likely you will need them. Keep them in your supplies for you and your family.

Kim Jong Un is going to continue to improve his nuclear arsenal. It is unlikely he will hit anyone and continue to threaten the U.S. as he has been for the last 5 years. 

The U.N. sanctions against North Korea will not work. They are getting a lot of money from renegade states and have a 6 billion dollar stockpile at least and are getting more from Iran who was present at all the tests and will buy the tech they have.

It goes up to the highest bidder, or several and this will finance it. Kim Jong Un does not care about his people, and the sanctions will effect them far more than his nuclear program.  Trump's focus on North Korea as a business is not relevant to them as rogue state with a nuclear bomb.

None of this is hysterical versus the mainstream media which nears the edge of hysteria every morning with their headlines. They are often the product of too many drugs - I mean long hours and a crazy lifestyle - it would be very interesting to see how many are on cocaine and Vicodin and even crack. Like movie stars - especially at the Emmys - it is amazing most of them can even sit up - much less do a late night interview on a talk show. Add alcohol to the equation and well - you can prescribe medications for them as well.

Let me give you some facts here after all that - it's 3 a.m. and as usual, I am wide awake.

Let's go back a few years - like 2011 - which still applies today. All of the this North Korea turning Seoul into rubble goes back at least 6 years and it hasn't been attacked yet.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/2011/12/05/why-doesnt-south-korea-defend-the-united-states/#577e15ab3890


SEOUL—Seoul is the political and industrial heart of the Republic of Korea.  The metropolitan area holds half of the country’s population.  Amid the city’s bustle the threat from the so-called Democratic People’s Republic of Korea seems far away, but Seoul’s suburbs lie just 25 miles south of the demilitarized zone, within range of North Korean artillery and Scud missiles.  Hence the North’s latest threat to turn Seoul into a “sea of fire,” (this was in 2011)

U.S. troops have been in South Korea for 61 years.  Washington first intervened to reverse the North’s invasion of the ROK in 1950.  Three years later the fighting ended in an armistice, with no peace treaty ever reached.  Since then American troops have formed a military tripwire to ensure Washington’s involvement in any new war.

However, Seoul has precious few responsibilities in return.  ROK forces never have been stationed in America.  There were never plans for the South to assist the U.S. if the latter was attacked by the Soviet Union.  No South Korean ships patrolled the sea lanes and no South Korean aircraft guarded the sky.

In the early days there was little the ROK, an impoverished dictatorship, could do.  Seoul could not protect itself, let alone anyone else.  But then, Washington should not have maintained the fraud that the security tie was mutual.

The South since has joined the first tier of nations.  It obviously can do more, much more.  Nevertheless, the treaty remains a one-way relationship.  The ROK occasionally has contributed to Washington’s foolish wars of choice, such as Vietnam and Afghanistan, in order to keep American defense subsidies flowing.  But this is no bargain for the U.S., which is expected to protect Seoul from all comers.

Of course, it might be too much to expect even a wealthier South Korea to help protect the U.S.  After all, no nation poses a serious threat to America.  Russia has a nuclear deterrent, little more.  China is expanding its military, but remains far behind us.  Every other potential adversary is a comparative military pygmy:  Cuba, Burma, Iran, North Korea.  Indeed, Washington’s “defense” budget has little to do with defense—of the U.S., at least.  America spends far more to protect its allies, such as the ROK.

comment: So we see a relationship that has gone on for 61 years. It allows us to maintain a military presence close to China and Russia and do our military exercises to remind them we are there and pose a serious threat to their national security - which I suppose is to maintain a balance as China spreads outward in the South China Sea and the Soviet Union wants all of the countries they lost during their demise, back.

There are currently no viable options on the table for a military strike on North Korea. Any military action will result in the instant and dramatic leveling of Seoul and the death of more than 20,000,000 people.

South Korea has recently stated they do not want the U.S. to attack North Korea nor do they want a unified Peninsula.  Ironically this could be easily solved with the removal of Kim Jong Un by a team of CIA operatives (which he has complained are stalking him) End of regime. Problem solved as effectively - the same as he removes his political rivals. Uncool? Not as uncool as vaporizing the northern Korean peninsula and most of the people.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-why-us-absolutely-insane-170141978.html

Despite reports of US and Chinese military buildups, North Korea's increased pace of provocations, and the Trump administration's claims that "all options are on the table," the US would have to be insane to attack North Korea.

To the untrained eye, the preparations for war are all there. The US has deployed the  world's most advanced missile-defense system  to South Korea, to protect against ballistic missiles. The world's most advanced jet, the F-35, has been sent to Japan.

The US has a carrier strike group, most powerful unit of naval power in existence, near North Korea's shores. And the US has permanently stationed 25,000 members of the world's best-organized fighting force near the North's borders — and they just finished a massive military exercise.

But even the best systems can't stop a determined foe with a handful of nukes.

Adm. Dennis Blair, who was the director of national intelligence under President Barack Obama, recently told a crowd at the Harvard Club that there was just no way to safely knock out all of North Korea's nuclear capabilities in one go.If I were to run the national intelligence again and the president comes to me and says, 'Here is General Mattis' strike plan, and can you ensure me that this will take out of all the North Korea nuclear capabilities?' it won't be easy to say yes," Blair said, according to The South China Morning Post.

comment: So all options are not really on the table. If I were president I would never make the statement "we will totally destroy North Korea"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96IEpxS_0Pk

There appear to be a lot of people hitting this site. The link to go there directly is above.


For all of you readers who think I am a Donald Trump spokesman this should make you stop and think some. I am not a Republican and I take an objective and realistic viewpoint (eventually).

I was the one who created the game World War III by Crystalware which inspired the movie
War Games and said "the only way to win is not to play" which was later quoted at the Salt Peace Talks and on the evening news. So while some of you trash me here, bear in mind, I have had my five minutes of fame and I still believe the pen is mightier than the sword. We writers are a formidable opponent and often are killed because of it. 

I don't do drugs. I do not smoke - anything. I don't drink any form of alcohol and I lead the monastic existence of a monk. I am Christian and yet I do not think the world will end tomorrow. 

As for destroying North Korea - I would say Donald - don't do it dude - in a twitter. The people aren't the enemy - despite a huge obsolete army - you can't un-nuke a country.

Given enough pressure China will end financial backing of North Korea to make them stop. They will never go back and disarm. Only stop where they are.  All they have to do is desert North Korea and their whole money thing (unless Iran can finance them) will fold.

Yes, North Korea will launch a missile in the next few weeks showing they can hit America for sure. It will not be shot down and while the threats will continue - the answer is not to destroy a nation with nukes - it is to pressure China to do what only they can do.

Do it China. It is the best deal for all of us. 

Medclinician.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2017 at 4:04am
You still are confusing North and South Korea though, Med.  To quote you:  "Going over the history of the relationship of the U.S. and South Korea all the way back to the Korean War is becomes rather clear that in no way is our alliance with North Korea really an alliance to protect America."

The South is an ally to The West.  The North is the one amassing nuclear, chemical and biological weaponry with which to threaten the South of the country and its Western allies.





That is a strange use of the word clarity.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2017 at 4:22am
Phenobarbitone  used to be prescribed for insomnia, Medclinician.  

I remember the Korean war well.  Members of my family were involved in it.  The allies had to come to an inconvenient truce, because the might of the two major communist nations, China and Russia, had united against the US and her allies (the five eyes).  We are officially still at war with North Korea, but in a state of truce.  If North Korea, in a moment of insanity, and they are in the majority insane (due to misinformation and hyper-control by he lunatic Kim Jong Un), was to attack the Western Allies, we would have every right, within the meaning of international law, to retaliate with all the force at our command.  

As you and a good many other Americans have no real idea of the weaponry (and power of that weaponry) that the United States alone possesses, I can assure you, that weaponry is at least 60 years in advance of that of any other nation on Earth and the US could sterilize most of the planet with very little harm to itself.  Kim Jong Un and his cronies should be afraid, very afraid.

You don't need to worry about me and my family, it would take a direct hit form a 2 megaton weapon to destroy us.  We are OK, Med.  Are you?



Doesn't the West wish that they had let Ike do what he wanted?!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2017 at 5:03am
Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

You still are confusing North and South Korea though, Med.  To quote you:  "Going over the history of the relationship of the U.S. and South Korea all the way back to the Korean War is becomes rather clear that in no way is our alliance with North Korea really an alliance to protect America."

The South is an ally to The West.  The North is the one amassing nuclear, chemical and biological weaponry with which to threaten the South of the country and its Western allies.





That is a strange use of the word clarity.


It's a typo and I fixed it. I am tired and it is 5:02 am here and I have been up all night. I am aware of the difference and if you will pay attention to the rest of the article which took me an hour to write and I still am correcting it - I am human - you will understand what I am saying.

Med
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2017 at 5:17am
Originally posted by WillobyBrat WillobyBrat wrote:

Phenobarbitone  used to be prescribed for insomnia, Medclinician.  

I remember the Korean war well.  Members of my family were involved in it.  The allies had to come to an inconvenient truce, because the might of the two major communist nations, China and Russia, had united against the US and her allies (the five eyes).  We are officially still at war with North Korea, but in a state of truce.  If North Korea, in a moment of insanity, and they are in the majority insane (due to misinformation and hyper-control by he lunatic Kim Jong Un), was to attack the Western Allies, we would have every right, within the meaning of international law, to retaliate with all the force at our command.  

As you and a good many other Americans have no real idea of the weaponry (and power of that weaponry) that the United States alone possesses, I can assure you, that weaponry is at least 60 years in advance of that of any other nation on Earth and the US could sterilize most of the planet with very little harm to itself.  Kim Jong Un and his cronies should be afraid, very afraid.

You don't need to worry about me and my family, it would take a direct hit form a 2 megaton weapon to destroy us.  We are OK, Med.  Are you?



Doesn't the West wish that they had let Ike do what he wanted?!!


I am aware of our nuclear weapons and worked at Lockheed Missiles and Space in developing them. Are you?  At that time it would have taken 40 minutes to destroy the world with the weapons we had then. I had to quit my job and take a break because it messed me up so badly at 18 years old to know such things. It has haunted me for 50 years and still does.

There is no question that we could vaporize North Korea. If you were aware of the politics behind this and economics, you would understand that both China and Russia could spook out and launch.

The statistics of survival after a preemptive strike versus a retaliatory one are much higher. You would also know of the Russian planes and submarines stationed around America - especially the subs. This will not be fought by missiles flying over the poles as in the movies. It will begin by missiles launched off the coasts and arriving in less than five minutes.

As for surviving a direct hit where you are - that is not the issue. The resulting radiation that would circle the globe and also the nuclear winter which would plunge us into a nasty 20 year mini-ice age would be a lot tougher.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2008/03/18/real-eisenhower-planning-win-nuclear-war

For Eisenhower, the point of amassing a huge nuclear arsenal was not to deter war but to win it. This was enshrined as official policy in NSC 5810/1: "The United States must make clear its determination to prevail if general war occurs." The only meaningful war aim, he told the NSC, was "to achieve a victory." He described his war plan as "Hit the guy fast with all you've got if he jumps on you"; "hit 'em ... with everything in the bucket."

By 1957, the president announced publicly that he would use nuclear forces in some "future small war." NSC 5810/1 made it official policy to use nuclear weapons to "deter limited aggression" as well as a full-scale Soviet attack. At various times, Eisenhower considered plans for using nuclear weapons in Korea, Vietnam, China, Germany, Yugoslavia, and elsewhere.

At the end of his presidency, when he was most aware of the destructive power of nuclear weapons, he still insisted "that the only practical move would be to start using them from the beginning without any distinction whatever between them and conventional weapons." And if he used nuclear weapons anywhere, he expected it to trigger a global war against the Soviet Union: "He would 'want to go to the head of the snake.' If we get our prestige involved anywhere then we can't get out."

The crux of Eisenhower's strategy for victory was to strike first. "Shoot your enemy before he shoots you," he insisted. That became official, albeit implicit, policy in NSC 5904/1, "U.S. Policy in the Event of War," which assumed the possibility of a preemptive response to an impending Soviet attack. In a "real" emergency, the president expected to launch an "all-out" nuclear war without consulting Congress.

Medclinician


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