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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic; Now tracking the Aussie Flu.

Will North Korea attack U.S. with Bioweapons?

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Medclinician View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 06 2017 at 5:14am
So much attention is being focused on the missile situation, it would appear that people and the media are oblivious to a much more serious threat. Kim Jong-un has eluded to other "surprises" for the U.S. and they are very capable of using a virus to infect America and cause enormous problems.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-the-world-should-fear-north-koreas-biological-weapons-14951

While the world might be worried about all things North Korea—especially its growing nuclear weapons arsenal—Pyongyang very likely has other nasty weapons of mass destruction that, given the right conditions, could be just as lethal.

What most refer to as biological weapons—stuff right out central casting that always make those ‘end of the world’ movies all so good—might just be North Korea’s real weapon of war to fear.

also note:

“Indeed, North Korea special forces are a likely means for delivering North Korean biological weapons. North Korea has some 200,000 special forces, a small fraction of which could deliver devastating biological attacks against South Korea, Japan, and even the United States. North Korea could use biological agents in isolation, perhaps as an escalated provocation in which it seeks to infect a limited number of people, or it could use biological agents as the leading edge of an invasion of the ROK, hoping for thousands or even more infections to weaken the ROK’s defenses and will to fight. Biological weapon use in the latter context is particularly worrisome.”

https://mic.com/articles/32885/war-with-north-korea-smallpox-and-bioweapons-are-the-real-threat-not-nukes#.C5er08zZW

Did North Korea really create hybrids of smallpox and Ebola virus or Venezuelan equine encephalitis, as Ken Alibek, former head of the Russian bioweapons agency Biopreparat, has described?

According to the International Institute on Strategic Studies, North Korea may be able to produce nerve, blister, blood, and choking agents, anthrax, bubonic plague, and cholera, with South Korea estimating its overall stockpile at 2,500 to 5,000 tons.

comment: One of the reasons the AFT has continued for years is the lack of real news concerning Avian Flu, Ebola, and other outbreaks around the world. To my knowledge, I am the only person on the Internet today about the dangers of the danger of a biological attack from North Korea on the U.S.

The ease of implementing such an attack and our lack of defense from one is truly disturbing. We could hardly handle a Zika outbreak or especially Ebola with our current medical situation and lack of decent care for most people in the U.S. today.

Few people currently are immune or vaccinated against smallpox.

What is a possible scenario?

There is going to be some sort of military confrontation over North Korea. The only other event that would relieve the crisis is the removal of Kim Jong Un from the land of the living. No doubt there are a number of operations currently in place to do so. It is likely these ops would be carried out by South Korea which would not put the U.S. under the gun for the event. It is a given there simply is no effective diplomacy or world sanctions that are going to stop him. These are policies which failed against Iran and have never really been effective.

The Russians and Chinese will ask we move our military out of the area near Japan and North Korea. This is not going to happen. If North Korea is receiving supplies and help from Iran and other big money countries - and that is likely as well as help in nuclear technology - there are not a lot of choices left.

Any attack will lead to an attack on Seoul which could kill 15-25 million people in less than 30 minutes.

South Korea is being held hostage.

Many times I have posted about bio-weapons. We may have stockpiles of anti-virals and antibiotics, but given our current medical preparedness - is anyone going out in the anarchy we have now to deliver them or would it be safe to do so?  Probably not.

We are most vulnerable of all weapons of mass-destruction - and there could be no immediate attack on North Korea because they would have to prove the outbreaks even came from them. Most likely it would be attributed to ISIS.

It is a dangerous day for the world today.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2017 at 11:03am
I daresay that the US intelligence services are fully aware of the details of any North Korean threat, Med.  Pearl Harbor was an unforgetable lesson.  Military eyes are now superglued to the ball.

Quite what they will do about such threats and whether or not they will warn the public will be another matter, but they are well aware of the comparative risks.

I very much doubt that NK will have any smallpox.  Russia and the US certainly have it, and adapted versions for increased lethality, for all that they both agreed to dispose of it.  But, when world stockpiles were being disposed of (permanently?) NK would have been too damaged by the Korean war to have bought any.  After that it got too hot to handle.  I bet they tried though!

As for the other nasties, who knows?  We can only speculate, but I would bet odds on $1,000 to a cent that the American security services know - right down to the last microbe or dirty slide.  Any attempt to spread an agent known about, understood and stockpiled by the opposing side (us) is doomed to failure as the enemy knows how to tackle the effects, and in the case of the US probably has far, far worse to retaliate with - and Trump is itching for an excuse!  Who could blame him?  Not me!

As a point of planning reasoning, Kim Jong Un, Il (or any other variant on the theme) don't give a damn about their people, as long as they are safe themselves.  They are up against it too, where buying stuff on the international market goes.  So, everything must be done on a shoestring.  If a shoddy nuclear reactor goes boom, then they just move away and cover up the deaths.  If a biological agent escapes, then there is nowhere for the ruling elite to run to.  It makes sense to limit the weapons research to the safer nuclear - odd though that sounds.

In summary, I will join you in your nuclear nightmares, but this one is a storm in a teacup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2017 at 2:51pm
I totally agree - I'm sure biological or chemical weapons are on the radar of the intelligence community and being widely discussed, particularly after Kim Jong-nam's death from VX exposure, but a country the size of America would make chemical weapons largely ineffective, and biological weapons are indiscriminate and too unpredictable.
Now the nuclear threat is one I'm completely on board with though. That does scare the bejeezus out of me, and I'm getting very nervous about whether it's going to be handled well, or as a real estate deal.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2017 at 3:30pm
Prime real estate that Pyonyang!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2017 at 3:39pm
Putin to Trump

"IN YER FACE"

Ahead of Trump-Putin Meeting, Russia Halts U.S.-Drafted U.N. Resolution Against North Korea

http://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2017/07/06/ahead-trump-putin-meeting-russia-halts-u.s.-drafted-u.n.-resolution-north-korea/


keeping up with the G20 meeting?

at this point I ALMOST feel sorry for Trump

he is being disrespected at every turn

foreign leaders laugh at him behind his back

and are starting to laugh  IN HIS FACE

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2017 at 3:39pm
I can just see a Trump branded building there. Or hard labor camp.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2017 at 3:50pm
"Trump-speak unbellyfeel Engsoch." as Orwell would have put it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2017 at 2:08pm
I would like to spend some more time on this because this is something even Trump is missing.  It would be very simple for North Korean operatives to bring a virus into New York and shut down the U.S. in two weeks. I mean complete and total chaos.

There have been forms of hantavirus which are weaponized.

https://securitystudiesonline.wordpress.com/2011/08/11/potential-uses-of-the-hantavirus-as-a-biological-weapon/

I personally spoke to a guy with a global news station who wanted to interview me. He said he was going to have another scientist on who had developed a weaponized hantavirus that could spread incredibly fast. The guy was killed in a parking garage a few days before the show. Then he sent me a list of more than a thousand genetic researches who had been "eliminated" in the last three years. I forwarded this on to appropriate people.

Then he disappeared as well.

My point.

North Korea has been dealing with Pakistan and Iran both who likely have bioweapons of mass destruction.

These labs were photographed by satellite and pictures were put up on the net.

https://mic.com/articles/32885/war-with-north-korea-smallpox-and-bioweapons-are-the-real-threat-not-nukes#.W7fhjYYkv

Even if no modifications were really made, it is terrifying enough that U.S. and Russian intelligence services have found "medium" grade intelligence that North Korea may have acquired smallpox, and that some of the Biopreparat scientists may have moved to North Korea after the breakup of the Soviet Union. Frequently lethal and often disfiguring, smallpox might be stopped cold by 300 million stockpiled doses of vaccine in the Strategic National Stockpile, provided the North Koreans have done nothing to alter the virus. There are also antiviral drugs that may help to combat infections if a vaccine fails. But with each case of smallpox infecting, on average, 20 more people, the logistics of distribution will be critical, and the effect on any nation less prepared would be devastating.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2017 at 7:22am
Have been tracking this for some time and still think it would be far worse than a nuclear attack. They do have many forms of them and people have been getting pretty sick recently. These could never be tracked.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2017 at 5:17am
Originally posted by Medclinician Medclinician wrote:

Have been tracking this for some time and still think it would be far worse than a nuclear attack. They do have many forms of them and people have been getting pretty sick recently. These could never be tracked.

Medclinician

Thanks, Med, I share your concern. 

It has been reported that NK likely has smallpox stores.  During the Cold War, the USSR built up massive stores of smallpox virus through their industrial effort Biopreparat.  They were planning on loading freeze-dried smallpox onto ICBMs.  From what I've been told, the Soviets had tons of weaponized smallpox, and much of this just disappeared when the USSR fell apart. 

NK is likely being helped by former Soviet missile & nuke engineers, so it is not unlikely that they also have some of the Biopreparat guys on the payroll. 

Bioweapons could easily be pre-deployed behind enemy lines (i.e. the USA) without much problem, just waiting for a signal to deploy and disperse.  

I guess we'll see soon enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2017 at 7:59am
I have a scary senario to think about.

What if some infectious agent broke out in America under Trump; say: monkeypox, or this year's flu - with one more nasty and successful mutation?

If he decides this is the doing of North Korea  (Well, Global warming is China, all terrorism is Islam and Russia helped 'Crooked Hilary'.  Life is so much easier with someone to blame.  You don't have to take any grown-up responsibility that way.)  What would Trump do then?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2017 at 8:51am
Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I have a scary senario to think about.

What if some infectious agent broke out in America under Trump; say: monkeypox, or this year's flu - with one more nasty and successful mutation?

If he decides this is the doing of North Korea  (Well, Global warming is China, all terrorism is Islam and Russia helped 'Crooked Hilary'.  Life is so much easier with someone to blame.  You don't have to take any grown-up responsibility that way.)  What would Trump do then?

Trump seems to be itching to deploy nuclear force.  I don't think he'd hesitate to bomb Pyongyang. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2017 at 10:44am
I think he'd have to get past Mattis and the Joint Chiefs first. I'm willing to bet that conversations along those lines have already taken place without Trump's knowledge.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2017 at 10:49am
Chuck - a few years ago, a group of Russian nuclear scientists went to Washington to testify that NK had been actively head hunting them. They said that some of their colleagues had already gone there to work, and more ominously, the scientists with expertise in EMP technology were the ones being pursued the hardest.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2017 at 2:54pm
And so it really begins in the U.S. - of course this map throughout the time I have been posting it, usually vastly understates the spread of the flu. It might be noted that we have a rather peculiar item here. Noting the threats of North Korea to attack Guam - it appears to have begun there - and is widespread. Is this the big surprise we have been threatened with?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2017 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I have a scary senario to think about.

What if some infectious agent broke out in America under Trump; say: monkeypox, or this year's flu - with one more nasty and successful mutation?

If he decides this is the doing of North Korea  (Well, Global warming is China, all terrorism is Islam and Russia helped 'Crooked Hilary'.  Life is so much easier with someone to blame.  You don't have to take any grown-up responsibility that way.)  What would Trump do then?

Trump seems to be itching to deploy nuclear force.  I don't think he'd hesitate to bomb Pyongyang. 



I just posted this and I am wondering why Guam is widespread right now. I do know many people who are very sick with the flu - several were in the hospital.  It is a very bad flu and comes with a severe cough and an ear infection. Most people I have talked to get the ear infection.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2017 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

I think he'd have to get past Mattis and the Joint Chiefs first. I'm willing to bet that conversations along those lines have already taken place without Trump's knowledge.


Under active discussion....


Aides of Donald Trump are reportedly working out what they would say to him if he were to order the United States to launch a nuclear strike on North Korea.


White House officials are said to be increasingly concerned by the President’s behaviour, both publicly and privately, and are worried he will start World War III.


Trump’s Chief of Staff John Kelly and Secretary of Defence James Mattis are reported to have talked about what they would say to the President if he does order a nuclear attack.


According to numerous sources who have spoken to Vanity Fair about a range of issues surrounding the President and his apparent ‘unravelling’, Kelly and Mattis have already discussed their response.  


“Would they tackle him?” the source said.


The publication claims that those closest to Trump believe him to be “unstable”, while advisers said the White House was “in crisis” over the President’s “dark moods”.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2017 at 9:54am
Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

I think he'd have to get past Mattis and the Joint Chiefs first. I'm willing to bet that conversations along those lines have already taken place without Trump's knowledge.


Under active discussion....


Aides of Donald Trump are reportedly working out what they would say to him if he were to order the United States to launch a nuclear strike on North Korea.


White House officials are said to be increasingly concerned by the President’s behaviour, both publicly and privately, and are worried he will start World War III.


Trump’s Chief of Staff John Kelly and Secretary of Defence James Mattis are reported to have talked about what they would say to the President if he does order a nuclear attack.


According to numerous sources who have spoken to Vanity Fair about a range of issues surrounding the President and his apparent ‘unravelling’, Kelly and Mattis have already discussed their response.  


“Would they tackle him?” the source said.


The publication claims that those closest to Trump believe him to be “unstable”, while advisers said the White House was “in crisis” over the President’s “dark moods”.



None of this is relevant.  The president has the authority to order a nuclear strike without asking Congress and Trump may do so. What his aides feel about it - who cares?  Would the military say no - we won't do that?  Unlikely.

They are posed right now on military exercises and if NK launches a nuke towards Guam even to splash down in international waters, it is likely we will nuke wherever Kim Jong-un is stuffing himself at his resort island with a chunk of gooey cheese in his hand and his mouth full.

I am more worried about EMP and especially a virus - this could not only a disease virus - it could be a computer virus. Most everything we have uses computers and technology. A hiding "Silkworm" I have labeled this and tracked it - could just go off and shut down our entire net and infrastructure.

Meanwhile - disease virus - what they don't have - they can buy - and be sure - the U.S. has already created several strains which could end human life on earth - or kill most of it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2017 at 10:20am
Actually, read your history.  Nixon wanted to use nukes and his administration managed to stop things without stopping him.  Watergate happened just after.

Kim Jong Un is not going to start WWIII.  He is well aware that the retaliation will destroy his country if he does so.  I can't say the same about Trump.  What Kim will do in 20 years when his weapons arsenal is sufficient to do really big damage with, is another matter.  But. he will do nothing to start things now.

Chemical, conventional, electrical, bioweapons or nukes?  Who knows?  What I do know, is that China will immediately come out against whomever starts things.  Despite the appearance of things, they are not pro-Korea, anymore than they are pro-America.  They just do not want an unstable region or a huge influx of refugees.  China is pro-China. PERIOD.

If North Korea does use an EMP weapon and it is huge then China will damage them.  They don't want an expansionist dictator free in the region, which with American influence gone they would have.  If it is no more than an inconvenience then NK can get away with it.  Guess which they will choose.  Kim is an evil, dictator, a psychopath with no care for his people at all, but not a complete idiot.  Quite like Trump, but possibly more stable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2017 at 10:54am
None of this is relevant? I wish I had glasses that rose-tinted, because a man as unstable and vindictive as Trump with his finger on the button seems awful relevant to me.

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