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18 reasons not to have the Covid vaccines

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    Posted: August 09 2021 at 3:02am

Here's an interesting article I read today, with good hyperlinks to the sources of information. Enjoy.

https://www.deconstructingconventional.com/post/18-reason-i-won-t-be-getting-a-covid-vaccine

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 4:56am

First of all-I did not "enjoy" reading the article...That does not mean the writer has some good points...Why vaccine producers are allowed to make profit-and a lot of it !- while they do not have to take responsibility for their vaccines ? 

Leaky vaccines can not get us out of this pandemic-my idea is they may limit risks...I did get two Pfizer vaccines...hoping it protects me and my "social bubble" from severe disease...at least for some time...

The problem I have with Geert van den Bosche is he offers no alternatives...ADE also can happen-does happen-in natural immunity...[url]https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/welcome-to-the-scientific-library/immunity-aa/905004-cell-rep-enhancement-versus-neutralization-by-sars-cov-2-antibodies-from-a-convalescent-donor-associates-with-distinct-epitopes-on-the-rbd[/url] or https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/welcome-to-the-scientific-library/immunity-aa/905004-cell-rep-enhancement-versus-neutralization-by-sars-cov-2-antibodies-from-a-convalescent-donor-associates-with-distinct-epitopes-on-the-rbd  ....

The writer of the article believes he had Covid19-so natural immunity will protect him...I think he is wrong in that...

Vaccines are NOT the answer...but maybe can buy us time to get an answer ? Only we wasted the time...If we may have gained a bit due to vaccines...one step forward...we wasted that progress by reopening...two steps backward...

Covid is mutating high speed-with lots of spread=lots of mutations...and vaccinated host now will result in vaccine escape variants...

NPI-stopping the spread-would have been a better choice in 2020...and may be the only effective choice there is...

So-Do I basically agree with the article ? Maybe "yes" if you live in New Zealand..."no" if you live in most other places...unless policies-finally-get more realistic !

You can not vaccinate yourself out of a pandemic ! It is the Non Pharma...stop the spread part that will do the job !

Of course testing is also "pharma"...and by now maybe 80% of the spread-due to vaccines-is a/pre-symptomatic. So a far more agressive testing strategy is needed-with also a lockdown-like scenario for maybe the rest of this year...to get Delta etc (and the etc is WORSE !!!) at least somewhat under control ! 

"Getting Covid" is no plan...it is getting worse, deadlier...and "natural immunity"not effective, major healthissues...etc.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 5:26am

Most of the information in that article was correct, although I could poke holes in some of the conclusions.  I still admit the point that the vaccines are not 100% safe.

They are however, safer than the disease.


Fears as more children falling ill in latest US Covid surge and school approaches

  • National Institutes of Health director says 1,450 kids in hospital 
  • Teachers union shifts, calls for vaccine mandates for teachers 
NIH director Francis Collins holds up a model of the coronavirus as he testifies before a Senate appropriations subcommittee on Capitol Hill on 26 May 2021.

NIH director Francis Collins holds up a model of the coronavirus as he testifies before a Senate appropriations subcommittee on Capitol Hill on 26 May 2021. Photograph: REX/Shutterstock


Last modified on Sun 8 Aug 2021 18.56 BST

Amid increased fears that children are now both victims and vectors of the latest Covid-19 variant surge, National Institutes of Health director Francis Collins signaled on Sunday that increasing numbers of children are falling ill in the US.

His comments also came as one of America’s largest teachers unions appeared to shift its position on mandatory vaccinations for teachers.


With around 90 million adult Americans remaining unvaccinated, and vaccines remaining unauthorized for 12 years and under, Collins told ABC News This Week with George Stephanopoulos that “the largest number of children so far in the whole pandemic right now are in the hospital, 1,450 kids in the hospital from Covid-19.”

Collins acknowledged that data on pediatric infections was incomplete but he said that he was “hearing from pediatricians that they’re concerned that, this time, the kids who are in the hospital are both more numerous and more seriously ill”.

Collins’s comments came as new Covid-19 cases in the US have rebounded to more than 100,000 a day on average, returning to the levels of the winter surge six months ago. But health officials focus on children adds urgency to the situation as the US education system approaches the start of the school year.

Collins said his advice to parents of school-age children is to “think about masks in the way that they ought to be thought about”.

He added: “This is not a political statement or an invasion of your liberties. This is a life-saving medical device. And asking kids to wear a mask is uncomfortable, but, you know, kids are pretty resilient. We know that kids under 12 are likely to get infected and if we don’t have masks in schools, this virus will spread more widely.”

The alternative, he said, “will probably result in outbreaks in schools and kids will have to go back to remote learning which is the one thing we really want to prevent”.

Warning that virtual learning that kids have experienced for more than a year is “really bad for their development”, Collins urged that “we ought to be making every effort to make sure they can be back in the classroom. And the best way to do that is to be sure that masks are worn by the students, by the staff, by everybody.”

The president of the American Federation of Teachers, Randi Weingarten, went further, calling for vaccine mandates for teachers. “As a matter of personal conscience, I think that we need to be working with our employers, not opposing them, on vaccine mandates,” she told NBC’s Meet The Press.

Weingarten’s comments are an advance on the union’s earlier position in which it maintained teachers should be prioritized for the vaccines but stopped short of supporting a mandate. That shift was previewed last week when Weingarten said she would consider supporting vaccine mandates to keep students and staff safe and schools open.

Dr Anthony Fauci, chief medical adviser to Joe Biden, also echoed Weingarten’s comments Sunday, saying the best way to protect children from the virus is to “surround them with those who can be vaccinated, whoever they are. Teachers, personnel in the school, anyone, get them vaccinated.”

Dr Scott Gottlieb, former FDA commissioner, also weighed in on the concerns, saying that schools are not “inherently safe” from the Delta variant and that society “can’t expect the same outcome that we saw earlier with respect to the schools where we were largely able to control large outbreaks in the schools with a different set of behaviors.”

“The challenge right now is that the infection is going to start to collide with the opening of school. And we have seen that the schools can become sources of community transmission when you’re dealing with more transmissible strains,” Gottleib told CBS’s Face the Nation.



I was worried that the disease might be storing up some nasties for our children's future.  I realise I was wrong.  The nasties are here now.


Source of article:   The Guardian

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 8:35am

Thank you, Josh and Techno -- you said things I was thinking.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 8:46am

You can not even vaccinate out of a flu-pandemic...even with vaccines. Almost 8 billion people is simply taking to much time the "old way"...maybe "vaccine-pills", micro-needle-plasters via mail etc...could work to speed up mass-vaccinations...

[url]https://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2021/08/articles/animals/dogs/h1n1-influenza-in-dogs-california/[/url] or https://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2021/08/articles/animals/dogs/h1n1-influenza-in-dogs-california/ when a disease has more then one species/hosts the problem gets even larger...

Still vaccines can "limit damage"...for now maybe the best WE can do...This pandemic is a POLITICAL problem...STOP THE SPREAD !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 10:43am

Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

This pandemic is a POLITICAL problem...STOP THE SPREAD !

Oh yes!  Stupid, lying, politicians with no understanding of science and private agendas (Ardern exempted) have screwed us over and our children and their children too.  

My own faith has no hell;  I wish it did, those b******s deserve it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 11:40am

Ok,  Go ahead and actually believe this crap.  I was told by the best doctors that the insurance company could find that the virus is far worse than any vaccine and that according to author of the Hot Zone and the head of the advisory board to Baylor University Medical School and Stanford Medical School, that getting the vaccine is a moral imperative as well as a ethical duty.   I was treated by some of the very best doctors in the nation.  I have a law degree,  Do you think that those doctors want to play russian roulette with their careers.  They were superhuman in their efforts to save our lives.  I can say this, if htey were willing to take the vaccine and they were required to by the insurance company when it became available, why not you or I.  When i was in the hospital, I saw nurses and doctors risking their lives to save us.  Heroic does not do them justice.  Vicki almost died the second night she was there.   I saw her heart stop on the monitor.  6 doctors, the very best that could be hired worked like demons to save her life.  They were so exhausted after the 4 hour marathon that they literally had to be taken away on carts. 

The very least I could do is to honor them is to get the vaccine.  Yes, I know it is not perfect, yes i know the companies are shitty, bastards who are only out to make a profit.  But, if our doctors who worked like hell to save us took the vaccines, then they are good enough for anyone else.   I am mad as hell at this crap that has been spread around.  The virus is a nasty mean cruel MFA and it will evolve until we stop it.   We need to get real, For now, my doctors and the insurance company both agree.  The vaccine is the best available way to prevent death or serious illness from COVID. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 12:46pm

Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

Of course testing is also "pharma"...

You're absolutely right about testing. A couple of weeks ago I was listening to the radio in the car and someone was talking about the intrusiveness of the Covid tests and how poking something up the nose was very dangerous, but also that the bit they poke up the nose was infused in chemicals and that was also potentially harmful to such a delicate piece of our anatomy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 1:03pm

202,936,214 reasons to get the vaccine.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 1:43pm

I am glad they are working on other testmethods, moutwash-sampling, chewing-gum-like-testing, breath-alyzer...maybe even bloodsamples (on voluntary basis) can do a very good job. 

I live in the [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Banana[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Banana . In a radius of 150 kilometres there live 30 million people-in a radius of 200 kilometres it must be around 50 million...That is totally different in New Zealand, or most parts of Australia, Alaska...

In a "megalopolis" (like Eastern China, US East Coast, Pacific-California...Brazil-Atlantic coast) there vaccines are a different issue...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 2:09pm

Apparently the most effective way to test for Covid is via anal swabbing but I can't see that one being very popular on the high street.... 

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 2:36pm

ME, KiwiMum there is a middle ground.

Yes, the vaccines are imperfect, but don't let the persuit of the perfect get in the way of the good - in this case very good.  

The vaccines kill a few people.  I will say that again: "The vaccines kill a few people!"  The disease has killed millions and is trying to become more transmissable (it is succeeding) so it will kill millions more.  The front line of fighting against it is full of the brightest, the bravest, the best of us.  We do owe it to them to get vaccinated.  We also owe it to our conscience, our humanity and every vulnerable person we could kill for the want of a little prick.  (Or appear to be one.)

The vaccines do not stop the spread.  But they do reduce it.  We might not kill those we infect, but we could still kill those they infect - and so on.  One of those might just be the host of the next/worst mutation.  I sure don't want that on my conscience.

So get the jab folks.  But keep up the other measures too.  I urge you all to take this tiny risk, for each other, for those we owe so much to and last but not least to massively reduce the risks to yourself as well (but not eliminate them altogether - let's tell it how it really is).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 2:36pm

Originally posted by ViQueen24 ViQueen24 wrote:

202,936,214 reasons to get the vaccine.

Vs.how adverse reactions !!!!!!!????

Take care all 😷😉💉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2021 at 4:51am

[OK, so it is not "Nature" Magazine, but "Scientific American" does make the podium for scientific accuracy.]


Discover World-Changing Science

Public Health | Opinion

The Crucial Vaccine Benefit We’re Not Talking about Enough

The vaccines not only prevent people from getting sick; they also cut down on transmission by those who get infected after immunization

By on

 Credit: Getty Images
                    

COVID vaccines have proved to be magnificent successes, dramatically decreasing the number of cases, hospitalizations and deaths1. However, there has been uncertainty about whether vaccinated people who still get infected—perhaps with very mild symptoms, or none at all—might pass on the virus to others. Such silent spread could complicate efforts to control the pandemic.

In recent months, there has been a deluge of data on the risk of transmission after vaccination. These findings have important implications for how quickly we can get the pandemic under control, and for what we say to those who are hesitant about getting vaccinated.

Vaccine trials are typically designed to determine whether an immunization prevents people from getting sick. These are the efficacy numbers in the headlines—as high as a 95 percent2 reduction in symptomatic COVID cases for the two FDA-authorized mRNA-based vaccines. But the trials provide little or no data on whether the vaccines can entirely block infection, which is the surest way of minimizing spread of the virus.

Considering that at least one third 3 of COVID infections are entirely symptom-free, yet still potentially contagious, it is important to know whether vaccinated people are likely to become carriers of the virus. Not every carrier spreads the virus, though. If a carrier’s viral load is relatively low—meaning that fewer viral particles are shed while breathing and speaking—the risk of transmission is substantially reduced. One possible indirect benefit of a COVID vaccine, then, may be to reduce the viral load in so-called breakthrough cases, or vaccinated people who get infected.

Because many health care workers are now routinely tested for COVID, regardless of whether they have symptoms, much of the early real-world data on vaccine effectiveness in blocking infection has come from this population. In several studies of fully vaccinated health care workers—those more than two weeks past their second dose of either mRNA-based vaccine—the likelihood of having a symptomatic or asymptomatic infection was reduced by 80 to 904 percent, compared with those who were unvaccinated.

There has been good news, too, on the subject of viral load in breakthrough cases. Researchers in Israel studied6 vaccinated people who became infected. The viral load in these breakthrough cases was about three to four times lower than the viral load among infected people who were unvaccinated. Researchers in the U.K. reported a similar result. They also found that vaccinated people who became infected tested positive for about one week less than unvaccinated people.

We also now have evidence that infected people with lower viral load spread the virus to fewer people, based on contact-tracing studies in the U.S.7, India8 and Spain9. This is supported by laboratory research10 demonstrating that nasal samples from infected people with lower viral load are less likely to contain infectious virus.

The Delta variant of the coronavirus, now dominant in the U.S. and many other countries, may induce a viral load that is 1,000 times higher than the leven that was typically associated with the ancestral ineage of the virus in early 2020.  This higher viral load makes Delta infections more contagious, which has led to a greater number of breakthrough cases, albeit many mild or aasymptomatic.  But the mRNA-based vaccines still provide strong protection, with efficacy afainst symptomatic infection in the range of 80 to 90 percent.  And the ability of these vaccines to substantially reduce viral load in breakthrough cases could be aq valuable tool in containing spread of the Delta variant.

The totality of these impressive data should bolster confidence that the COVID vaccines are extraordinarily effective in reducing transmission of the virus. This suggests that vaccinating a large majority of Americans throughout the country is our surest bet for returning to normal. Entirely eliminating spread of the virus may be an unreachable goal, but mass vaccination—in the U.S. and around the world—will relegate COVID to the background of our lives.

Until now, based on the available data from the vaccine trials, much of the public health messaging around vaccination has focused on the individual benefit. And the efficacy of the COVID vaccines in protecting against illness is indeed remarkable. But with mounting evidence that confirms effectiveness in reducing transmission, it is time to begin emphasizing the societal benefit—and the personal responsibility to avoid harming others.

Particularly because so many COVID cases are asymptomatic, an unvaccinated person is at risk of unknowingly becoming a carrier of the virus. Indeed, those who have the lowest risk of severe illness or death from COVID—the young and healthy—are most likely to serve as these unwitting carriers, because they live the most active lives, routinely coming into contact with many others.

The most important question for those who are hesitant about vaccination, then, is not, “What can the vaccine do for you?” It is, “How many people will you harm if you don’t get vaccinated?”

Early in the pandemic, in February 2020, an international business conference11 in Boston with about 175 attendees became a superspreading event. It has been estimated that, as of November 1, 2020, more than 300,00012 infections in the U.S. had been sparked by that conference alone.

We are all linked in a vast, invisible network. “Six degrees of separation” is not an exaggeration for the surprising density of our multitudinous interconnections. If you decline vaccination and become infected with the coronavirus, the number of people whom you may inadvertently harm could be astronomical.

Mitigation efforts like testing, distancing and masking are imperfect tools for preventing spread of the virus. Vaccination is the closest thing we have to a sure thing in this pandemic. The data are in, and the vaccines are wondrously effective in reducing transmission.

The message to those who remain unvaccinated should be: Don’t let the virus use you to harm others.

This is an opinion and analysis article; the views expressed by the author or authors are not necessarily those of Scientific American.



ABOUT THE AUTHOR(S)

Daniel P. Oran is a member of the digital medicine group at Scripps Research Translational Institute.

Eric J. Topol, a professor of molecular medicine at Scripps Research, is founder and director of Scripps Research Translational Institute.



[Technophobe:   The highlights in yellow were put in by myself. ]


Source:   Scientific American

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2021 at 5:08am

My big worry in all this mass vaccination to is......

In some of these countries getting the right information.....

Because if say some get one shot..

.think they covered...

They not.....

Viruses will become resistant.....very quickly.....

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2021 at 8:10am

I read a piece last night and scientists are working on a vax that will "all but eliminate" Covid spread.  Of course, hopefully it will be effective against variants.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2021 at 2:07pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

[OK, so it is not "Nature" Magazine, but "Scientific American" does make the podium for scientific accuracy.]


Discover World-Changing Science

Public Health | Opinion

The Crucial Vaccine Benefit We’re Not Talking about Enough

The vaccines not only prevent people from getting sick; they also cut down on transmission by those who get infected after immunization

By on

 Credit: Getty Images
                    

COVID vaccines have proved to be magnificent successes, dramatically decreasing the number of cases, hospitalizations and deaths1. However, there has been uncertainty about whether vaccinated people who still get infected—perhaps with very mild symptoms, or none at all—might pass on the virus to others. Such silent spread could complicate efforts to control the pandemic.

In recent months, there has been a deluge of data on the risk of transmission after vaccination. These findings have important implications for how quickly we can get the pandemic under control, and for what we say to those who are hesitant about getting vaccinated.

Vaccine trials are typically designed to determine whether an immunization prevents people from getting sick. These are the efficacy numbers in the headlines—as high as a 95 percent2 reduction in symptomatic COVID cases for the two FDA-authorized mRNA-based vaccines. But the trials provide little or no data on whether the vaccines can entirely block infection, which is the surest way of minimizing spread of the virus.

Considering that at least one third 3 of COVID infections are entirely symptom-free, yet still potentially contagious, it is important to know whether vaccinated people are likely to become carriers of the virus. Not every carrier spreads the virus, though. If a carrier’s viral load is relatively low—meaning that fewer viral particles are shed while breathing and speaking—the risk of transmission is substantially reduced. One possible indirect benefit of a COVID vaccine, then, may be to reduce the viral load in so-called breakthrough cases, or vaccinated people who get infected.

Because many health care workers are now routinely tested for COVID, regardless of whether they have symptoms, much of the early real-world data on vaccine effectiveness in blocking infection has come from this population. In several studies of fully vaccinated health care workers—those more than two weeks past their second dose of either mRNA-based vaccine—the likelihood of having a symptomatic or asymptomatic infection was reduced by 80 to 904 percent, compared with those who were unvaccinated.

There has been good news, too, on the subject of viral load in breakthrough cases. Researchers in Israel studied6 vaccinated people who became infected. The viral load in these breakthrough cases was about three to four times lower than the viral load among infected people who were unvaccinated. Researchers in the U.K. reported a similar result. They also found that vaccinated people who became infected tested positive for about one week less than unvaccinated people.

We also now have evidence that infected people with lower viral load spread the virus to fewer people, based on contact-tracing studies in the U.S.7, India8 and Spain9. This is supported by laboratory research10 demonstrating that nasal samples from infected people with lower viral load are less likely to contain infectious virus.

The Delta variant of the coronavirus, now dominant in the U.S. and many other countries, may induce a viral load that is 1,000 times higher than the leven that was typically associated with the ancestral ineage of the virus in early 2020.  This higher viral load makes Delta infections more contagious, which has led to a greater number of breakthrough cases, albeit many mild or aasymptomatic.  But the mRNA-based vaccines still provide strong protection, with efficacy afainst symptomatic infection in the range of 80 to 90 percent.  And the ability of these vaccines to substantially reduce viral load in breakthrough cases could be aq valuable tool in containing spread of the Delta variant.

The totality of these impressive data should bolster confidence that the COVID vaccines are extraordinarily effective in reducing transmission of the virus. This suggests that vaccinating a large majority of Americans throughout the country is our surest bet for returning to normal. Entirely eliminating spread of the virus may be an unreachable goal, but mass vaccination—in the U.S. and around the world—will relegate COVID to the background of our lives.

Until now, based on the available data from the vaccine trials, much of the public health messaging around vaccination has focused on the individual benefit. And the efficacy of the COVID vaccines in protecting against illness is indeed remarkable. But with mounting evidence that confirms effectiveness in reducing transmission, it is time to begin emphasizing the societal benefit—and the personal responsibility to avoid harming others.

Particularly because so many COVID cases are asymptomatic, an unvaccinated person is at risk of unknowingly becoming a carrier of the virus. Indeed, those who have the lowest risk of severe illness or death from COVID—the young and healthy—are most likely to serve as these unwitting carriers, because they live the most active lives, routinely coming into contact with many others.

The most important question for those who are hesitant about vaccination, then, is not, “What can the vaccine do for you?” It is, “How many people will you harm if you don’t get vaccinated?”

Early in the pandemic, in February 2020, an international business conference11 in Boston with about 175 attendees became a superspreading event. It has been estimated that, as of November 1, 2020, more than 300,00012 infections in the U.S. had been sparked by that conference alone.

We are all linked in a vast, invisible network. “Six degrees of separation” is not an exaggeration for the surprising density of our multitudinous interconnections. If you decline vaccination and become infected with the coronavirus, the number of people whom you may inadvertently harm could be astronomical.

Mitigation efforts like testing, distancing and masking are imperfect tools for preventing spread of the virus. Vaccination is the closest thing we have to a sure thing in this pandemic. The data are in, and the vaccines are wondrously effective in reducing transmission.

The message to those who remain unvaccinated should be: Don’t let the virus use you to harm others.

This is an opinion and analysis article; the views expressed by the author or authors are not necessarily those of Scientific American.



ABOUT THE AUTHOR(S)

Daniel P. Oran is a member of the digital medicine group at Scripps Research Translational Institute.

Eric J. Topol, a professor of molecular medicine at Scripps Research, is founder and director of Scripps Research Translational Institute.



[Technophobe:   The highlights in yellow were put in by myself. ]


Source:   Scientific American

Almost everything in the article you have posted has been contradicted by the British Government this morning. I've posted the article seperately under Latest News (UK: Covid is unstoppable) but here it is again. 

This article appeared in the Telegraph this morning. I've pasted the contents. It backs up what the NZ government was saying a month ago. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/10/delta-variant-has-wrecked-hopes-herd-immunity-warn-scientists/

Delta variant has wrecked hopes of herd immunity, warn scientists

There is no way of stopping Covid spreading through the entire population, experts tell MPs as they call for end of mass testing 

The delta variant has wrecked any chance of herd immunity, a panel of experts including the head of the Oxford vaccine team said as they called for an end to mass testing so Britain can start to live with Covid.

Scientists said it was time to accept that there was no way of stopping the virus spreading through the entire population, and monitoring people with mild symptoms was no longer helpful.

Prof Andrew Pollard, who led the Oxford vaccine team, said it was clear that the delta variant could infect people who had been vaccinated, which made herd immunity impossible to reach even with high vaccine uptake.

It comes as Angela Merkel became the first major world leader to announce the end of free testing, with the provision set to stop in Germany from Oct 11. 

On Tuesday, the Department of Health confirmed that more than three quarters of adults have now received both jabs, and calculated that 60,000 deaths and 66,900 hospitalisations had been prevented by vaccination. But experts said it would never be enough to stop Covid from spreading. 

Speaking to the all-party parliamentary group on Covid, Sir Andrew said: "Anyone who is still unvaccinated will, at some point, meet the virus. 

"We don't have anything that will stop transmission, so I think we are in a situation where herd immunity is not a possibility and I suspect the virus will throw up a new variant that is even better at infecting vaccinated individuals."

Until recently, it was hoped that increasing the number of Britons jabbed would create a ring of protection around the population. As late as last week, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation said one of the reasons it had advised that 16 and 17-year-olds should be vaccinated was because it may help prevent a winter Covid wave.

However, analysis by Public Health England has shown that when vaccinated people catch the virus they have a similar viral load to unvaccinated individuals and may be as infectious.

Paul Hunter, professor in medicine at the University of East Anglia and an expert in infectious diseases, told the committee: "The concept of herd immunity is unachievable because we know the infection will spread in unvaccinated populations and the latest data is suggesting that two doses is probably only 50 percent protective against infection."

Prof Hunter, who advises the World Health Organisation on Covid, also said it was time to change the way the data was collected and recorded as the virus became endemic.

"We need to start moving away from just reporting infections, or just reporting positive cases admitted to hospital, to actually start reporting the number of people who are ill because of Covid," he added. "Otherwise we are going to be frightening ourselves with very high numbers that actually don't translate into disease burden."

On Tuesday, Sajid Javid, the Health Secretary, confirmed that third dose booster shots would be given from next month. However, Sir Andrew argued that, if mass testing was not stopped, Britain could be in a situation of continually vaccinating the population.

"I think as we look at the adult population going forward, if we continue to chase community testing and are worried about those results, we're going to end up in a situation where we're constantly boosting to try and deal with something which is not manageable," he said.

"It needs to be moving to clinically driven testing in which people are willing to get tested and treated and managed, rather than lots of community testing. If someone is unwell they should be tested, but for their contacts, if they're not unwell then it makes sense for them to be in school and being educated."

Dr Ruchi Sinha, consultant paediatrician at Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust, told MPs and peers that choosing not to vaccinate children would be unlikely to cause problems in the health service.

"What matters is the burden of patient hospitalisation and critical care and actually there hasn't been as much with this delta variant," she said. "They tend to be the children who have got their comorbidities, obesity, or severe neurological problems and those children are already considered for vaccination. Covid on its own in paediatrics is not the problem."

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2021 at 8:38pm

Yes, it is possible, even probable the horse has gotten out of the barn.  If earrlier on, more efforts had been put into mitigation and more people had been compliant vis à vis PPEs, distancing and vaxxing, things probably would've been different.

"If someone is unwell they should be tested, but for their contacts, if they're not unwell then it makes sense for them to be in school and being educated."

That above in yellow, though, that is, as I say in my private life, an abomination unto God, man, and Anne Murray.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2021 at 3:16am

Don't talk to me about that bunch of AHs KiwiMum.  They sold us down the river at the start and are now trying to convince us the market for this was a good idea.  People are falling for their rhetoric too.

You really can't fix stupid.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2021 at 1:45pm

I'm so astounded by the UK government's complete 180 degree turnabout. They have completely thrown the towel in. I know they said that any unvaccinated person will, at some point, come into contact with the disease but what the subtext there is that any vaccinated vulnerable person will also come into contact with it and we already know that the efficacy of the jabs in immune compromised people is low, so in other words, they are saying, look out, you're next in ICU. Shocking.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2021 at 2:53pm

Well they were looking for storage for bodies a few posts ago.....

"Bring out the body bags"......

Take care all 😷😉💉

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2021 at 3:09pm

The thing is, the countries have to stop lockdowns ,to costly,

They have given out free vaccine,

If you didn't take the shot ,that's your choice,

If you get Covid when they open up ,

The government has done its job,

You won't be able to sue , the government for anyone getting sick or dying.....

They covered their asses......

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2021 at 3:36pm

I know TWO transplantees, a lukemia sufferer, someone with emphysema and several elderly diabetics.  Having had both my jabs does not seem anyway near enough.  Those people are standing in the firing line AND THEY CAN'T GET OUT OF THE WAY!

Compared with Ardern, our politicians never looked particularily good.  Now they might actually look better with horns, tails and leathery wings.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2021 at 3:38pm

A final note/observation on our government, pertinent to my last comment:  Of course, they will get them in time.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2021 at 5:22pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

A final note/observation on our government, pertinent to my last comment:  Of course, they will get them in time.

   

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2021 at 11:20pm

See why I love this forum?    

A few truths about vaccines: 

a)  Side effects happen, and this pains the vaccine scientists a great deal.   One common side effect is Guillain–Barré syndrome, a mysterious auto-immune reaction against the nerves of some patients receiving vaccines or other injections (even drawing blood can trigger GBS). 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_swine_flu_outbreak

In 1976, the US Government reacted swiftly to an outbreak of swine flu that appeared very serious.   Upon orders of President Gerald Ford, a vaccine program was rushed and mass vaccinations occurred.   "In total, GBS cases occurred in 362 patients during the six weeks after influenza vaccination of 45 million persons."[13]

b)  The current round of vaccines are the most studied, tested and monitored vaccines in history.   During the production of poliovirus vaccine, scientists used kidney cells from monkeys as a culture medium.  Problem is, simians harbor all sorts of nasty viruses, and one (SV40) contaminated polio vaccine worldwide. https://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/65/22/10273

c)  Compared to other commonly used vaccines, the administration of the mRNA vaccines seems to have been remarkably safe, and represents a true miracle of modern science.  The Astra Zeneca and J&J vaccines use a different modality (simian cold virus carrier), and although these have had generally positive results, I believe the mRNA vaccines are the safest ever produced in history.  

Don't believe the puffery.  Most of the bad information about the COVID-19 vaccines are being disseminated by "Disinformation Dozen," a small group who have strong financial incentives to stir up resistance to vaccination.  Please glance through this article:  https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996570855/disinformation-dozen-test-facebooks-twitters-ability-to-curb-vaccine-hoaxes

The report is here: https://www.counterhate.com/disinformationdozen

Be safe, you are all dear to me.  Best, Charles

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2021 at 7:58am

Thank you, Chuck!  Wish everyone who's skeptical could see this post.  It might change a few minds.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2021 at 11:15am

Yes, Thank you, Chuck.


So, Having read those articles and downloaded the report about The Disinformation Dozen, I thought I would look up WHY each of them do it.  This was very interesting

1 Joseph Mercola:  He has a lucrative alternative medicine business and suppliament company.  It has made millions. 1
2 Robert F Kennedy Junior: He is an activist and lawer. He must be doing well at it he is worth over $50 Million and is the author of several books. 2
3 Ty and Charlene Bollinger:  Ty and Charline peddle bogus anti-cancer treatments  This seems quite lucrative. 3 
4 Sherri Tenpenny:  Profiting from several books on the subject.  She also makes money advertising for the Bollingers. 4 
5 Rizza Islam:   This guy is genuine;  then again he is a total nutcase.  He is a member of "The Fruits of Islam", an anti-LGBT campaigner and  supports several other conspiracy theories. 5
6 Rashid Buttar:  Twice reprimanded by  North Carolina's Medical Examiner's Board for unprofessional conduct & cited by the (FDA) for illegal marketing of unapproved and adulterated drugs.  6
7 Erin Elizabeth: Associated with Mercola, who she funds.  [May be another genuine nutter.] 7 
8 Sayer Ji: Hosts a web portal of alternative stuff, even was vice president of a movement to abolish government regulation of alternative medicines. 8
9 Kelly Brogan: Believes EVERYTHING is in the mind of the patient, [eg. HIV does not cause AIDS the mind alone does]  Does not believe in pathogens!!!.  9
10 Christiane Northrup: Writes alternative medicine books - best sellers! 10
11 Ben Tapper: Calls himself Dr. Tapper but is not an MD.  Large social influencer.11 Believes COVID is a myth 12
12 Kevin Jenkins: Thinks the vaccine is a method of experimenting on African American people.13

So they are mostly raking in the moolah by killing people, although a few of them seem to believe their own misinformation and a couple have such poor logic they are in the: "I can't see it so it can't exist" camp.  

Just being an "influencer", as they all are, is enough to make you rich these days.  Perhaps I should claim that:  "An alien armarda waits under the ice of Antartica.  When the viruses they have given us have wiped us out and the global warming they drive has taken effect, then they will sail forth to take the planet.  Only if you drink the water from my well can you avoid the cull.  Only £50 a cup.  Three cups a day to survive.  I could be a billionaire by the end of the week.  

What sorry excuses for human beings.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2021 at 2:38pm

Mercola is an Osteopath; Northrup is an OB/GYN.  No disrespect intended to Osteopaths or OB/GYNs, but heyzeus, stay in your own lane!  I used to subscribe to Mercola's daily emails, they had interesting info on supplements, which I never bought from Mercola but bought equivalent, less expensive formulas elsewhere.  I cancelled my daily emails when I noticed sometime in the spring 2020 that Mercola had become increasingly paranoid and offensively political.  Since then I am told he has gone "full Q".

As for Northrup, I used to respect her as a Gynie, but again, stay in your lane, and for God's sake keep your wits about you.  Off the deep end, she is.  A shame. 

Did anyone else hear the rumor that KiwiMum's organic buttermilk is the cure for botyriasis?  KiwiMum, maybe you should be upcharging for it?  ;)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2021 at 11:14pm

  If I can't get people to take it for free, maybe I should give it mythical qualities! I once had 40 litres of full fat organic milk that I just couldn't get rid of, so I ran myself the hottest bath I could and I tipped the milk in and then got in for an hour. I kid you not when I tell you I had baby soft skin for about 2 weeks.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 3:09am

Cleopatra mk II

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