Click to Translate to English Click to Translate to French  Click to Translate to Spanish  Click to Translate to German  Click to Translate to Italian  Click to Translate to Japanese  Click to Translate to Chinese Simplified  Click to Translate to Korean  Click to Translate to Arabic  Click to Translate to Russian  Click to Translate to Portuguese  Click to Translate to Myanmar (Burmese)

PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
123456
Forum Home Forum Home > Main Forums > Latest News
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - .
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

.

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
Message
noflu4u View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: May 03 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noflu4u Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: .
    Posted: June 11 2009 at 10:48am
.
Back to Top
noflu4u View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: May 03 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noflu4u Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2009 at 11:04am
.
Back to Top
HoosierMom View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: June 15 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 334
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HoosierMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2009 at 11:10am
I predicted that this would give ol Prez the perfect scenario, "Oh save us all "  Will make persuade more to jump on board if they are all sick and they "save the day".   Hate when I am right !
Back to Top
sjf53 View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: April 06 2008
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 400
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sjf53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2009 at 12:11pm
FLU POLITICS...............
 
I do not agree with everything said in this article but it goes along with what you are referring to in this thread.  But also... Where there is smoke there is fire. 
Makes for good "Summer Reading" if nothing else. 
 
My personal belief is that this Pandemic is real and happening. Just so I am not labeled
a conspiracy nut.  Please finalize your preps now...........sjf53
 
 

Flu Politics .. implications for Martial Law, Global Agenda, and the Avian Flu on deck. A MUST read for anyone wanting to understand what is really happening - provided by Northeast Intelligence  Click on above.

by DefendUSx May 12, 2009 00:08

* I highly recommend reading this entire article - one piece at a time if you have to. If you haven't done any of this research, it will make some "light-bulbs" go off as to these nefarious actions taking place at an unprecedented rate. A top-notch article for explaining and answering many questions you may have.

By Randy Taylor & Douglas J. Hagmann, Director  - Northeast Intelligence Network

Does anything about the events of the last few months strike you as odd? How about the last few years, or the last few decades? If you’ve been paying attention to Western politics and world events, and if you’ve been closely following politics inside the United States and have become thoroughly confused by the policies, actions and responses of the United States, then you will undoubtedly reply “yes” to that question.

There is an ever growing list of actions, reactions, and policies that just simply don’t make any sense -at least not until they are viewed through the prism of an “alternate reality,” or an agenda of an elite few who are not acting in the best interests of the United States. Such a list would include matters of national security, health and welfare, immigration, and economics. That list would also involve our leaders from both Republican and Democratic sides of the political aisle.

Back to Top
endman View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: February 16 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1232
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote endman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 11:03am

Wow people its like conspiracy theory a new flu pandemic to sell us a new health bill
Its like every time we going to war its because of unprovoked attacks
Sep 11                       Iraq / Afghanistan
Perl Harbor                WWII
Sinking of Lusitanian WWI
Explosion of USS Maine  Spanish American War
Back to Top
debracanice View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2009
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debracanice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 11:30am
As a Canadain I am also amazed the States is the only westerized country without universal healthcare.
Yes we  pay higher taxes Income taxes  (but we pay less inheritance taxes  and less property taxes)   
 We dont go bankcrupt when we get sick because we have hundred  thousand dollar bills
My brother just died and there was a small hospital bill for repeat of tests .  less than one hundred dollars and a some medical tests . that were rare test not usually done  again in the hundreds and agreed to before hand . Whe  he  died he had a nurse in Intensive care . only one nurse for him 24 hrs . his own room  clean  the family was supported at all time and a doctor I could talk to within a half a hour if I needed to ask questions.
His death was unavoidable and he received great medical care at all stages of his illness
  
 
My assets when I die will be left to my son not eaten up in medical fees
 
we never worry about preexisting conditions
Yes we have wait lists but what isnt said about wait list is that if you get worse while on a wait list you can contact your doctor and get moved up , You can go to emergency and be treated. 
There is a conspiracy . The media the goverment are too controlled by the insurance companies to ever let the American people know what are health care system is really like.
Even CNN refers to the Canandian system as Socialized medicine
not Universal
 
Yes the rich have the same access as the poor to the same doctors .
We Canandains wont vote anyone in who tries to tamper with our health care
There are attempt to come into our company but no thanks
Its Sad that Obama will be treated like a threat if he even tries to put in place what we have
I laugh at all they have to say is socailized and the Americans would rather go brankcrupt to pay for thier healthcare
count how often CNN says the word Socialized
 
I remeber once going to the ? States and  a border crossing guard accused me of wanting to go to live in the States . I laughed at him . Do you really not know what our  stiluy of living really is like .  You have no healthcare .   You couldnt pay me to live  there  
 
 
  
Back to Top
debracanice View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2009
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debracanice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 11:43am
What you also dont get is I am not poor
I could pay for your insurance . but I have preexisting conditions that would disqulaify me
cancer survivor
My son will be left a substantial amount of money .
In Cananda we pay more for our goods . We have around the same cost for hourly minimum wage.
Our colleges and universities are cheaper or about the same
Universal is not just about the poor its for all
The super rich in Cananda dont like it , they are the only ones
You have Conrad Black in your jail system . he was a newsapaper owner  several large papers . He  hated our Universal Healthcare . Bully for him . The one person who it wouldnt hurt didnt like our system .    
Your amercian insurance companies are alway trying to get in here but we have a firm position and no politiacain will touch it even the ultra conservatives know that they cant get voted in if they try to change it
Michael More did have it right.
I think it terrible that you dont communicate with other countries that have Universal care
The media blocks any imformation
Michael More should not of needed to do a show . 
 
I didnt like his part on Social services . though .  /We may have better public housing but that not as good as it could be . Social l housing will never work anywhere. Its too expensive and I dont beleive in it because it requires too muych policing and is a money pit.
 
 
 
Back to Top
Mahshadin View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 11:59am
Debracanice
 
What you have to realize is the extremely large amounts of money that have been spent to decieve the American Public. If you ask Joe off the street about the Canadian Healthcare system, the first response you will get its everyone hates it and you have to waity in long lines.
 
LOL
 
No mention that more that 70% of the Canadian Public is happy with their system or that the waits in the US are actually just as long or longer. It has been pounded in everyones head here over and over and over. Any mention of a single payer system and you are called a marxist or commy, pretty convenient for all of thos ebig Insurance corps swimming in the money. People here just dont get it until they are faced with a major healthcare problem in their family and end up broke and bankrupt.
 
We just tune these people out. they should have had the ability to save a few hundred thousand dollars to cover it.
 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
Back to Top
noflu4u View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: May 03 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noflu4u Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:14pm
.
Back to Top
Mahshadin View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:25pm
You obviously have more money than you know what to do with, or have not faced a major health issue in your family.  I also have Blue Cross Blue shield Insurance, and when we had a major problem with daughters health, we ended up with over 8 thousand dollars in bills. So dont pich B & B as the saviour, they are not. there just another Middle man adding to the cost and the problem.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
Back to Top
noflu4u View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: May 03 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noflu4u Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:36pm
.
Back to Top
ops144 View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: December 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 138
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ops144 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 1:04pm
hmm out govt is bankrupting the country already.....

and you "Americans" want them to run health care?

i have a better idea why dont all American's that seam to want socialism just move to Canada or where ever the BLEEP ever...
and leave the USA to us....

then we can all be happy.
Back to Top
noflu4u View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: May 03 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noflu4u Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 1:16pm
.
Back to Top
debracanice View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2009
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debracanice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 1:25pm
The money is there the insurance companies have it all . The ones that insure the healthy employed people .,  I can see how your media is paid off . They are the ones saying socialized medicine . 
I love the Canandain system . I know there are flaws
 
What you dont get it is not just about the poor . I dont want the last of my money to go to taking care  of my health . You have to have a health card and that not that easy to get unless you are legal .  Its a picturee Id and you reappy every two years Otherwise you pay cash up front.  I have also  heard our charges our less than yours .   
 
We dont have drugs plan  We pay for that separate and have separate insurances for that except after sixty five. then its covered . There is a two dollar co pay that some drug stores cover.   Also the poor on welfare do have drug plans
 
Dont get me wronge > i dont give away free money I hate the welfare system
Too many couples claim to be single parents and women  collect even when they are living with their husband . I am sure that happens there too. 
 
Health care is not about the poor . If I was poor I wouldnt care . You cant take what I dont got .  
 
Canandians love our care  If you asked anyone if they would want the American system it would not be a sevety percent answer . Only the ricH really really rich would like it if it lowered their taxes  . My doctor is busy rsuhed and yes very rich.
 He sends me to specailists when I need it . But if he can treat me he does ,.  
 MY brother went to a well  known eye clinic that restored his sight. He got state of the are treatement by a hospital that is doing world renowed work and research.
He got the care he needed and no one appeared to count the money.
the nurse by his side twenty four hours  was wonderful .When he was very ill she brought him a radio . He had said he missed music. I was so gratefull that he had his music as I had forgot to bring his radio. 
He had specialized blood tests done by a doctor who runs a clinic just like DR House does . its a assessment clinic . several doctors and they run tests all day .  Some really rare tests for some conditions .  the waiting tiime was three months ,  but that was while seeing his normal doctor nad his other specialists.  And he could go to emergency if he needed to .
You cant expect a clinic like that to be any less wait time.,  In Cananda they track the waiting time . It is not expected to go over six week waiting time . to see s specialist
And free. no charge .  A couple of tests were so rare she charged a few hundred . still that nothing .  not for the qualilty fo care. 
Once the Americans get Universal care protects the middle class not the poor that will change everything .  You need to get the dialoge going .,  Americans need to see the system we have set up here
We switched ours over in stage first it was one insurance and your employer paid it.
then it was paid out of taxes
 
What you dont get . It is also the reason some Americans companies set up here . Our health care is not a expense for them .   
The canandains would suffer if you did go our way as the companies set up here to say on healthcare cost would pull out.
In fact it works for me . You staying the same . if I want treatment next day service I can go there . There are Canandains who go for MRI there same day service because we wont allow them here . .  We dont want pay for clinics and we dont want the mixed system England has . We have a one tier and we protect it . 
Our children hosipitals have single rooms (for very ill children )   qualified nurses only
one nurse for four pastients max .   World class care.
When my son  very was sick once  he stayed there . Alot of the children there have very serious illness  and go a lot  . They have the most humane care and lots of resourses and volunteers ,.  They turn away volunteers they get so many who are proud to help
I cant imagine any family who could pay for the care these children receive .most insurances would run out and most of the treatment is specialized and new methods  which insurance companies dont cover.
 
We do have some insurance , you can get for drug plans and private rooms .  its also not unusal to get semi private room anyways as that all that open.  no charge
We have also home care for some . Yes and doctors home calls  depending on where you live. 
My brother had a nurse that come to the house to give him iron shots weekly
and one who talked to him about his diet and one for therapy. One to set up the house for a disability .   as a continuation of his hospital care.  they report to the hospital and can recomend he goes back . There job was  to help him acheive his goal of staying out of the hospital
MY mother before she died had the same care . . She managed to stay out of the hopital til the last three weeks.  Her choice.
She had a nurse come over three times weekly some of the care was paid for but at a minimum charge.
 
There have been small charges still I mean small /  My brothers bill from the hopital was because he had duplicate tests done in less tha  twenty four hours . Still small amounts thirty dollars one bill .   You never used to get these.
She too had intensive care  treatment but one nurse for four patients and the nurses all helped each other.  She was in a coma before she died . 
No charge       
 
I also like Our school taxes system too .   All the children get the same amount no matter where you live rich or poor neighbourhood ..  Parents can raise more money if they want but only for activities not for core circriculiam needs. 
Still we have imbalances .  you cant fix that completly.  Some schools have stronge parent volunteers and large amounts generated in fundraising activities .   some schools raise forty thousand in a term easily for activitiues and playground equipement .   Its not unusaul to have rich parents send their kids to public school;s because they are involved and voulunteer  In fact some rich parents will buy into a good school disctrict and send their kids to public school .   We dont have the same need for private schools.   ( they are not nearly as big as in the States , some private are venturing into specail needs to generate more clientlal)   I worked in one school in Forest Hill ( more than a million dollar homes )and many of the parents were extremly rich and they preferred the public . system .  They called it the bubble , they rarely left their core area. school shopping restaurants .   Yes they pay high property taxes . but they got in back in spades
 
Yes there are faults .  in each system . 
Still its the upper class who benifit not really just the poor
Personlly I think the Americans will get it soon
Michael moore went out on a limb . I love the comments .
why does Michael Moore hate America
Who is stupid enough to buy that . 
What family doesnt have a very ill member ,
We all get sick we all die 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
debracanice View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2009
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debracanice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 1:39pm
We do pay Higher costs for stuff and should really not buy in the States it cuts into our money.
Your stuff is cheaper.  and our cigerate tax and alcohol taxes our higher
We have a liquir control board and liquir is not sold in corner stores
I have seen you liquir stores and they creep me out
I hate the cigerate prices but hey those are the eople who raise the medical costs so maye it fair. 
 
What more i love that we are sharing ideas .  I also save my money and for my future and none is taking it from me  I buy the Canandian dream.  My family worked hard to be where they are .  
I also hate the welfare system .
I am not sure how Our taxes vary for inheritance . Some one told me they are higher in the states . We do pay capital gains on property not on primary residence but on income property .  Also 5 dollars of a thousand cash .  .
 
I love that we are talking .
 
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 2:02pm
I have some Canadian family.  I think they have had as a whole, less stress over the span of their lives because they do have no big worries over health care or retirement.  Every country has trade offs.  I think the boost in the Canadian dollar was good for travel, I met a lot of friendly Canadians in Florida ... we are good for each others economy.  Europe is a nice place to visit but I like it over here.. pass the spruce beer.
Back to Top
jacksdad View Drop Down
Executive Admin
Executive Admin
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2007
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 47251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 2:05pm
   I've experienced private and nationalized healthcare and I'll take the latter any day. It may have it's faults, but you get medical attention whether you can afford it or not. Better to wait in line (which I do anyway, even with coverage) to see a doctor than die or go bankrupt because you can't ante up for something that should be available to everyone in a civilized country.
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 2:13pm
It costs money to take care of sick people. Promises do not cost money. Making them happen does. The combined drug company, health insurance, and medical establishment control a great deal of the average Americans life. Diseases are created by lifestyle, medical treatments and drugs that are not needed are given to treat symptoms instead of cure diseases. Michael Moore is not the only creative thinker in America nor the most original. Most of this has been said for two decades.

The rich in most countries and corporations find loopholes so they will not have to pay taxes. Ringo Starr became a citizen of Morocco to avoid the incredible socialist medical system supported by taxing the rich.

The poor love socialized medicine, benefits of any kind, especially disability. Social security once met just that. It was for old people who had earned it. Now it is often for young people who have never worked at all.

Someone has to pay the ferryman on the River Styx and socialized medicine as per documentary can be a nightmare.  It would decades to get insurance company and lobbyists out of power enough to make a difference.

I would predict that none of the campaign promises will be fulfilled and then sad reasons will be given why it was not possible. If a health care system goes into place- hey will tax the rich, break the corporations, destroy our job market and economy, and then people will sit back and collect.

A true democracy is impossible, for the people would vote themselves all the money and destroy the country.

The people who need the health care cannot afford to pay for it. The people who have the most children cannot afford to pay for education of their children which is a huge budget item.

The illusion will be that something has been done when nothing has changed and the fat cats still have the money in bank accounts and the poor are still paying for even those who are not U.S. ciitizens and are breaking our economy.

We don't need another hero- (Tina Turner)

We just need one. A real one.

Medclinician

 
Back to Top
Mahshadin View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 2:37pm

So you believe that Canada, England, Australia, and the rest of the Industrialized countries are Socialist states because they have a single payer Healthcare sytem.

Hmmmm
 
I guess that would make the US the only Democracy on the planet by that standard.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
Back to Top
Mahshadin View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 3:05pm
noflu4u
 
I am not a Canadian, I simply used Canada as a reference to the deception being used here in TV commercials, Political Rederict, and other Ads. The information we are being fed about the Canadian system is just not correct when you look at the whole picture.
 
 
Sure can you find a few people who dont like it (Yes). and you will be able to that with any sytem on the planet, but to pitch it as the norm is just deceptive, as most 70+% are very satisfied with their system. How often have you heard that about the Canadian Healthcare System.
 
Oh I dont know what cigs are there in Canada but there
over $7.00 here in our state-with a broken healthcare system.
 
 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
Back to Top
earwax View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: May 18 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote earwax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 8:38pm
I am a Canadian and contrary to what others have said here, our system ain't so hot.

The radio talk shows here are always talking about moving to a pay as you use type of system or a combination of that and what we currently have.  The wait lines are real here (Alberta for sure).  Any time that I go to a clinic, there is at least a one hour wait with a three hour wait not uncommon.  Going to the emergency in a hospital is just as bad.

I have a friend that needed an MRI.  The wait was going to be many months.  She paid out of pocket to get it done in a week or two. 

I don't know what the ultimate answer is, but having health care available for the people that could not otherwise afford it sounds fair.  Using your hard earned dollars to get something quicker sounds fair as well.  Someone that doesn't want to work or doesn't put the effort into doing better than good enough shouldn't be without health care, but neither should the people that put the effort in be short changed. 

Canada has way too much hand holding, but obama wants to do the same to what I consider an otherwise great country.  You guys must get rid of him before it's too late.

Dana
Back to Top
sjf53 View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: April 06 2008
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 400
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sjf53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 9:15pm
House Health-Care Proposal Adds $600 Billion in Taxes (Update2)
Bloomberg

By Laura Litvan

June 12 (Bloomberg) -- Health-care overhaul legislation being drafted by House Democrats will include $600 billion in tax increases and $400 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid, Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles Rangel said.

Democrats will work on the bill’s details next week as they struggle through “what kind of heartburn” it will cause to agree on how to pay for revamping the health-care system, Rangel, a New York Democrat, said today. The measure’s cost is reaching well beyond the $634 billion President Barack Obama proposed in his budget request to Congress as a 10-year down payment for the policy changes.

Asked whether the cost of a health-care overhaul would be more than $1 trillion over a decade, Rangel said, “the answer is yes.” Some Senate Republicans, including Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah, say the costs will likely exceed $1.5 trillion.

House Democrats plan to release their legislation next week. Obama is working with Congress to get legislation to his desk by October.

Democrats in the House and Senate are crafting legislation that would require all Americans to have health insurance, prohibit insurers from refusing to cover pre-existing conditions and place other restrictions on the industry.

Online Exchanges

The legislation would establish online exchanges for individuals to purchase insurance and would require employers to provide health benefits to workers or pay a penalty. Some Democrats also are backing creation of a government-run program to expand coverage to the uninsured. The issue is the subject of bipartisan negotiations with Republican who oppose the so-called public option.

Rangel said Democrats are still considering options for tax increases that might be in the bill, including a possible end to the income tax exclusion for employer-paid health benefits.

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, a Montana Democrat, is considering a proposal to apply income taxes to health-care plans if they are significantly more expensive than the basic health plan for federal employees -- $13,000 for a family of four.

Rangel said House Democrats want to avoid the deeper cuts to projected spending under Medicare and Medicaid that Obama has been putting forth. House Democrats want to achieve cost-savings by cuts in payments to private insurance plans under Medicare.

Covering the Costs

Obama has pledged that health-care changes won’t add to the deficit. To accomplish that, he’s proposed getting about $600 billion by reducing tax deductions available to the wealthy, and by trimming Medicare payments to insurance companies.

That won’t be enough to cover the overhaul costs. Obama said this week he plans in the coming days to disclose more proposals for raising “additional sources of revenue.” In a letter last week to Senate Democrats drafting legislation he said he will be proposing between $200 billion and $300 billion in further Medicare and Medicaid cuts.

Obama plans to give a speech Monday in Chicago to the American Medical Association as part of his campaign to build up support for what could be the biggest changes to healthcare policy since Medicare was established in 1965.

Rangel said that while House Democrats will likely release more details about health policy changes in their legislation next week, the package of offsetting tax increases and spending cuts likely will come later. Democrats, he said, want to put forth the more-positive aspects of an overhaul first. Rangel also wants to let lawmakers have time to study and weigh in on proposed offsets.

“We have a problem in not wanting to attract enough negative attention to the bill in terms of the pay-fors,” he said. “Let them get a good feel for the coverage.”

To contact the reporter on this story: Laura Litvan in Washington at llitvan@bloomberg.net

Last Updated: June 12, 2009 19:05 EDT

 

Back to Top
debracanice View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2009
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debracanice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 11:04pm
Cigerates in Cananda 7 to 9 dollars a pack or the cheap ones at five dollars. Toronto Ontario
 We pay higher costs for a lot of stuff. 
Waiting a hour or two in a doctor office for a free service fair
The waiting time in emergency would be alot less if most would go to their family doctor
If you really are in emergency you go right in .. 
I havent a clue what it would cost . but I think that would take some of the money out of the insurance companies.  How much do they make a year
 
Still your the only country in a western world without universal care.
 
Still I have never been sick and not receiveds the kind of care I needed.  
Medicare cant work because the younge and healthy dont contribute to it. They give their moey to the insurance companies.   
 
No its not perfect  but we do need to communicate . 
 
 
Back to Top
noflu4u View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: May 03 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noflu4u Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2009 at 7:49am
.
Back to Top
debracanice View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2009
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debracanice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2009 at 8:25am
I dont see the states moving to a one tier maybe a two tier like in England .
pay up to by pass the waiting lines . 
 
I like someone point on taxing the rich . It will never happen .  The middle class and the poor .
There is a great story that Warren Buffet once found out his secretary and him paid the same in personal taxes .  I am sure it works that way here too.
 
It will take a decade to fix and loosen the insurance companies hold on the public.
It will first take CNN to stop refering to the Cananda system as Socialized medicing
the goverment into our medicine . I have never had any contact with any goverment person about my coverage .  
Your media is more biased . 
One we never make a fuss about our Prime Minister
we have never held them on pedistools like the Americans
I dont care what his wife is wearing and
WE dont care about his speaches . We assume they are written for him
We assume the decision making process is just that a process.
We expect them to safe guard our principals
 We want to increase employment and guard our resources and mostly keep the American style of politics out of our country
all very boring .
      
Back to Top
earwax View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: May 18 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote earwax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2009 at 8:59am
I don't want to make this all about the Canadian medical system, but I think that debracanice is either seeing a different setup in Toronto than we have in Alberta or she's just mistaken.  Nothing personal debracanice.  Just telling it like I and others that I know see things here.  Our American friends should see the potential future for them.

It can take a week or more to get a doctor's appointment.  They are not always the best way to go.  I've seen people in plenty of pain waiting to be seen in hospitals.  I've already mentioned the hours spent waiting at clinics just to get into a inner room to wait another 20 minutes for the doctor to finally arrive.

There simply are not enough medical personnel because they don't get paid what they had hoped.  They are over worked and under paid.  So they head for the U.S. for a better life.

This is what the U.S. can look forward to is the master (obama) gets his way.  Of course, if your medical system goes to crap like ours, then maybe more of our doctors/nurses will stay here and our lot in life will improve (or they'll head for some other nice cozy place).

Of course, if you can't afford health care, then maybe this is the best (only) way to get the help that you need.  Some people legitimately can not afford anymore.

If you can afford it, then you should be able to get what you need sooner at a private health facility.  No different than people with money generally drive nicer cars.

Dana
Back to Top
debracanice View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2009
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debracanice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2009 at 1:30pm
I just think the americans need to have a look at the Canandain system  up close
Yes we have our bugs
 
Of course I am not the one to tell you , there needs to be dialouge with Canandains and Americans without the insurance companies and media interferring.
 
but we dont go bankcrupt because of medical bills
 or worry  about not getting insurance because of preexsiting conditions
what is the cost of your insurance anyways
 
I dont borrow money to cover medical bills/
I love that commercial about borrowing money to cover her bills for the hospital.My guess is that is aimed at thoses who would go bancrupt if they had to pay their medical bills.
 
 .  
Yes I have waited for a doctors appointment , but if it is urgent I can go to the emergency.
That the point.  Yes i have waited a hour or even three hours  . I once weaited for four hours to see a heart specialist for my son.  gladly , it was at Sick Kids and that is a world class hospital . I dont complain / hey if he got worse , he would of got emediate treatment.'
I also got a doctor up at three in the morning running tests in the middle of the night .
He was beeped to come to the hospital to meet me and my son there. ( Good outcome He outgrew the heart defect)  now a healthy child but he was observed )
   
I can afford health care , but I like my money in my pocket.  If I had to pay for that care my son recieved ,  no idea ,.  I have no idea what insurance would cost as I am self employed
I dont wait about wait lists because i do know if I got worse then yes I can get in early to see my doctor and yes I can go to the hospital. 
currently when I go in to a hospital they do triage the waiting room .  I may be bumped because someone came in very ill and I jsut glad its not me that sick .  I still claim universal carte is more for the rich than the poor.
If you have no assets to pay your bills what can they do to you .
If you got assets they can go after them . 
 
 
   
Back to Top
earwax View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: May 18 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote earwax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2009 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by debracanice debracanice wrote:

 
but we dont go bankcrupt because of medical bills
 or worry  about not getting insurance because of preexsiting conditions
what is the cost of your insurance anyways
 
I dont borrow money to cover medical bills/
I love that commercial about borrowing money to cover her bills for the hospital.My guess is that is aimed at thoses who would go bancrupt if they had to pay their medical bills.
   


Of course you are correct there, but don't tell me that you haven't heard of people waiting a year or more for some medical procedure, who then got tired of waiting and enduring the pain so went to the U.S. to get the procedure.  Paying for it themselves of course. 

There are also the people that could not afford to go to the U.S. to get their procedures, who ended up dieing while waiting for the procedure.  Sure that is not the norm, but it does happen.  Nobody should be waiting months and years to get treatment.

Our system is far from perfect.  Cheaper, yes.  As you say.  But cheaper can be very painful or even deadly.   Cry

So as you Americans can see, there are different views even from within the same system.  You'll have to look at both sides and make some decisions for yourselves.  Then simply sit back and wait for that marxist turd (obama) to make the final decisions for you.

Welcome to our world.

Dana
Back to Top
earwax View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: May 18 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote earwax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2009 at 2:12pm
By the way debra.  I think we might be the only two still reading this thread.

How embarrassing is that?
Dana
Back to Top
noflu4u View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: May 03 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noflu4u Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2009 at 9:49am
.
Back to Top
endman View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: February 16 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1232
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote endman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2009 at 10:43am
I think the issue is not about health care or no health care its about if we would have a national health care system would it be better or comparable to the existing private health care system, We all know how bad the government run programs are, just take Motor Vehicle Department for example, slow, outdated, people are dumb anger and don’t care for nothing. We don’t want this in our health care
Back to Top
noflu4u View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: May 03 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noflu4u Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2009 at 10:55am
.
Back to Top
Mahshadin View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2009 at 12:00pm

nofluforu

I sense an angry hatred in your comments. Sounds to me like you are just finding ways to hate Obama. letss not forget most of the problems, Banking, Automotive, Housing, and oters were already spraling out of control before he even took over, somthing some want to just forget (Selective Memory).
When he talks about ourr helthcare being one of the underlying issues in our economic problems he is right. Our business are srapped paying very large sums of money, and in many cases forcing them either out of business or out of the country to a place where healthcare is not the responsability of business. This is not a new idea or is a new revalation. We have burdened our businesses without any leveling of the playing field for them abroad. Just do nothing is no longer an option (Last 10+ years).
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
Back to Top
debracanice View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2009
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debracanice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2009 at 12:20pm
As a Canandain I am completly amazed that you dont have health care and that fear fo the goverment oh Socialism be so stronge
You pay for it '
Every American company that has factories in Cananda does so to avoid your healthcare costs
Not because they like us
 
No one is going to proimise you a perfect system but your far from perfect.
Maidcare is insuring just the broke . and that lost revenue. if you have no money you cant pay and the rich just pay higher premeums
What do you pay in premiums yearly
I have no clue .
I dont know about co pay price of a doctor visit
How much money before you max out your insurance
What dso you do if you have preexisitng conditions
 
The sad thing is Obama will be crushed trying to bring in healthcare and that will be the t
he last time anyone brings it up again.
There are thoses that say that Obama won so that he canbring out these programs but he will not be respected enough and that will br the reason no one ever brings it up again the right wing win .  
 
 
 
Back to Top
Mahshadin View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2009 at 12:24pm
Yes Debracanice, there is a lot of >Gov Fear-Mongering going on and has been going on for a long time. Nobody brings up that the most financially efficient health system in the US is Medicare.
 
Oh No thats .Gov
 
Run Hide
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
Back to Top
debracanice View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2009
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debracanice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2009 at 12:37pm
Yes there are pockets of bad in our system  and  pockets of perfection .  The last time I was in the hospital with my brother , he was receiving the best health care . All the treatment he could get..  He had one nurse  one room ..  The room was very clean and the nurse very educated . 
 
You cant avoid waiting lists no where . and I I wait a hour or two . I still think its fair.
even if I paid .  
Yes there are Canandaians who go there for rushed  treatment . That because they  pay for hip relacements and knee replacements . The prices are high .  Still thats there chooice
The wait for hip placement can be a year or two .
Sad but what is the wait for you insurance to provide hip replacements .
Still there are those in the States that are having the surgeries done in foreign countries too . same reason long waits  cheaper surgeries out of the country
Can that totally bne avaided no probally not. not in ewither system .
 
      
Back to Top
noflu4u View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: May 03 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noflu4u Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2009 at 12:52pm
.
Back to Top
Sara123 View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: April 26 2009
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 285
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sara123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2009 at 2:14pm
When he talks about ourr helthcare being one of the underlying issues in our economic problems he is right. Our business are srapped paying very large sums of money, and in many cases forcing them either out of business or out of the country to a place where healthcare is not the responsability of business. This is not a new idea or is a new revalation. We have burdened our businesses without any leveling of the playing field for them abroad. Just do nothing is no longer an option (Last 10+ years).[/QUOTE]

Healthcare is not one of our underlying economic problems. The CEO's and banksters want the government to take over the health care system so they can make more profit. They have already taken most jobs overseas and I'm not giving up my health care benefits for the good of the bankster global collective. Obama has overspent and he is looking to screw the public in a health care triage system to make up for what he owes in medicare.

We have the largest economy in the world and our businesses have been doing fine up to the point where the socialists and the banksters teamed up to use our banking system as a low income housing and lending program and blew up real estate bubble.

Health care technology and research development is one of our biggest, REAL industries left. Obama does not need to take that over too.

Socialist health care systems stink. Obama stinks - the nasty little anti-American socialist. He ought to go appologize to his Muslim brothern some more and leave our health care industry alone. If he needs to play gand master dictator, he can dabble in the car industry - which he already socialized.
Back to Top
Mahshadin View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2009 at 4:53pm
WOW
 
Thats just amazing
 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
Back to Top
Sara123 View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: April 26 2009
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 285
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sara123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2009 at 10:34am
http://www.campusreportonline.net/main/articles.php?id=3109

Katie Brickell’s new life as a twenty-five-year old newly-wed was all but completely halted when she discovered she had cervical cancer, with only a few years left to live. Her hope for survival was placed in receiving cancer treatments through the United Kingdom’s government-run health care system.

Katie claims that her cancer could have been prevented or at least identified at an earlier stage had she been allowed a pap-smear, a common screening test for cervical cancer. Now all Katie can do is to continue to fight for the health care she needs, and dream of the lost life where she and her husband could “have children naturally.”

Katie’s story as well as the testimonies of many others were documented in a film produced by Conservatives for Patient’s Rights, a non-profit organization pushing for the establishment of a free market health care system. Americans for Tax Reform played host to a June 3rd screening of this documentary, followed by a discussion of the current and future health care structures in the United States.

The Obama Administration, in its passage of the stimulus package, created many government organizations and programs similar to those present in the Canadian and British single-payer health care systems. The appointment of Dr. David Blumenthal as the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology assisted with the formation of a national, governmentally-run database housing the medical records of all Americans. In addition to this formation, the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (FCCCR) was established to “help coordinate research and guide investments in comparative effectiveness research funded by the Recovery Act.”

These two programs have many similarities to the British National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE), which claims to be “responsible for providing national guidance on the promotion of good health and the prevention and treatment of ill health.” The documentary described many of the effects this British run program on British health care patients.

For patients with cancers deemed terminal by NICE, such as that of the mother of British patients’ advocate Kate Spalls, necessary medications are commonly withheld. This is due to their quality-adjusted life year (QALY) ranking, which is calculated based on the severity of disease along with other individual quality of life factors. This calculated score determines when and if a patient will receive medicines for specific illnesses. Many times these medications are prevented from being administered until they are critically necessary.


Deidre Almstead is an intern at the American Journalism Center, a training program run by Accuracy in Media and Accuracy in Academia.

Back to Top
Sara123 View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: April 26 2009
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 285
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sara123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2009 at 10:51am
It's so nice that Britian named it's incompetent socialist medicine murdering machine NICE. Maybe the Brits won't notice their nice abuse and deaths. Anyone who has read about Britian's and Canada's health non-care system, knows that our public schools put it to shame in dazzling competence!

Afterall, America's public schools can be credited with massive drop out rates; but socialized medicine is capable of doing to the collective's body what public schools do for the brains and future of many children in the US. What, are we gluttons for socialist punishment? Obama is confusing us with Kenya.

Who would our government choose to nicely deny health care to and kill in the name of lifting the profits of America's shake down artists - our dear globalist/fascist banking CEO's? Triage is the only way to save the economy from Obama's actions which have doubled the US debt in a few just short months!?

Heck, what's a little unnecessary suffering and dying when it comes to the good of Obama's collective? Bow down, Americans. Obamamessiah is here to save you.

Anyone hear that ABC news is moving headquarters into the White House in an effort to save this unpopular socialist boondoggle? That is right! They will be "reporting" on the glory of socialized medicine right from the Messiah's headquarters. They will be creating "town hall meetings" of carefully selected "citizens" and "opposition" to show you the glory and need of centralized control and oppression over your doctors, your lives and your bodies.





Back to Top
Sara123 View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: April 26 2009
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 285
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sara123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2009 at 10:54am
Obama was booed by doctors in Chicago (according to AP) as he dictated his latest takeover of private industry - socializing the health care industry. Can you imagine the nerve of these right wing reactionary terrorist haters? Booing the Left's Messiah even as he tries to save us from the dangers of freedom!     
Back to Top
mercurymom View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: April 26 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 236
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mercurymom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2009 at 11:20am
Originally posted by Sara123 Sara123 wrote:

Obama was booed by doctors in Chicago (according to AP) as he dictated his latest takeover of private industry - socializing the health care industry. Can you imagine the nerve of these right wing reactionary terrorist haters? Booing the Left's Messiah even as he tries to save us from the dangers of freedom!     
 
 
Clap  Well said, Sara! I totally agree with your posts.
There is nothing to fear except the persistent refusal to find out the truth, the persistent refusal to analyze the causes of happenings. ~ Dorothy Thompson
Back to Top
debracanice View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2009
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debracanice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2009 at 11:25am
There is no way I can ever see the Amercans getting universal care
One there are too many arguments and sad stories from either side
too amny died from not getting treatment because of prexisting conditions
or no coverage at all
In the end the doctors and the insurarance companies will flood the media witve died fh their side.
How many died because of the lack of any insurance .
Truthfully the Canandain system could use more  cash
I would go after welfare fraud , that rambant everywhere .,
especailly Cananda 
  
Back to Top
Mahshadin View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3882
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2009 at 11:34am
And he also got 2 standing ovations which you conveniently left out.
 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down