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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

A Fervent Plea

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BeachMama View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 19 2020 at 1:05pm

I’m trying to think of how to state this in a way that will not offend anyone.  This is truly not meant to bring offense to anybody on the forum.

When I first found AFT, I was incredibly impressed by the cooperation I saw between members. There was tension at times (and I would like to take this opportunity to officially and publicly apologize to CRS for getting upset with him a few months back!), but the conversation centered around the issue at hand — the emerging pandemic. Political talk was relegated to its proper place, the Politics thread.

These days, I literally cannot seem to read a thread without it devolving into a political argument. It is exhausting. I have to see that on the news, on my social media, and on TV. I am so disheartened to see it here. I feel like a lone voice, but is it possible for us to take the politics out of the pandemic at this point? Or at least, if we want to discuss its political ramifications (which are many!!), keep it in the Politics strand of the forum?

It would make our discussions more civil, and more appropriate to what we’re all here to do: get and give information on the pandemic. I depend upon you guys more than you know, and I am more grateful for you than I can say. But I just cannot mentally deal with the anger, vitriol, and disrespect that I see strewn around the forum.   It would be great if we could get back to more objectivity and civility.

Okay, I’m going to shut up now. Again, this is not intended to offend anyone — I just had to get it off my chest (keyboard?). Bless you all! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 1:59pm

For myself: I appologise.  If I think policies cost lives I feel driven to speak.  I know it is a failure as a moderator.  I am not as neutral as I wish to be.

For the site: I agree with you.  

I will try harder.

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 2:15pm

For me personally, I have seen you in some of that conversation.  Also you have been here around 5 months and you are now complaining about content.  Perhaps this just isn't the site for you.

NOW is the Season to Know

that Everything you Do

is Sacred
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 2:47pm

We periodically try to deal with the politicization of some of the threads, and we’ve yet to completely succeed - long term anyway. The political discussion section was one such attempt. There is one constant however - election years are always the worst.
We don’t police or censor unless it’s spam, porn, threats, etc., so it’s been tough to do anything in the past. We value free speech here, even if we don’t always agree. The problem right now is that everything is deeply polarized and politicized before it even reaches us.
The best advice I can give is to choose which threads you read.There are a lot that I either pass over, or resist the urge to post in if it looks like it will get contentious.



"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 2:55pm

As a long time moderator here, I have always chosen not to involve myself in political posts (or try not to anyway) which is why I have so few posts since being a moderator since 2006, lol. It is quite tame compared to how it used to be years ago. Everyone just needs to try to keep it civil.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 6:39pm

Originally posted by BeachMama BeachMama wrote:

I’m trying to think of how to state this in a way that will not offend anyone.  This is truly not meant to bring offense to anybody on the forum.

When I first found AFT, I was incredibly impressed by the cooperation I saw between members. There was tension at times (and I would like to take this opportunity to officially and publicly apologize to CRS for getting upset with him a few months back!), but the conversation centered around the issue at hand — the emerging pandemic. Political talk was relegated to its proper place, the Politics thread.

These days, I literally cannot seem to read a thread without it devolving into a political argument. It is exhausting. I have to see that on the news, on my social media, and on TV. I am so disheartened to see it here. I feel like a lone voice, but is it possible for us to take the politics out of the pandemic at this point? Or at least, if we want to discuss its political ramifications (which are many!!), keep it in the Politics strand of the forum?

It would make our discussions more civil, and more appropriate to what we’re all here to do: get and give information on the pandemic. I depend upon you guys more than you know, and I am more grateful for you than I can say. But I just cannot mentally deal with the anger, vitriol, and disrespect that I see strewn around the forum.   It would be great if we could get back to more objectivity and civility.

Okay, I’m going to shut up now. Again, this is not intended to offend anyone — I just had to get it off my chest (keyboard?). Bless you all! 

BM, whatever you said to old CRS, DrPH, all is forgiven!  

Unfortunately, it is impossible to separate the pandemic from the politics.  I myself have been a moderately conservative, gun-loving Republican my entire life, but I have nothing to do with the Party of Trump.  Absolutely lawless and amoral.  

Don't let the political banter bother you, we have contributors from places like the UK, Oz , New Zealand etc. & I absolutely love & appreciate the diversity of opinions!!  We are all at our best when we really open up and express ourselves, given our regional and national perspectives.  

I'm always available to anyone via Personal Messenger if you have questions about my statements.  I'm a crusty old infectious disease expert with over 40 years of professional experience in the field....I predicted "blood as a weapon" during HIV AIDS, did some of the very first work on Legionnaire's disease and still contribute to public health at a high level.  Believe me, I rankle feathers because they deserve to be rankled!   This pandemic was, sadly, unavoidable, but it didn't have to be this bad. 

Be safe out there, boys and girls....it ain't over yet.  This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no fooling around.  Hugs and Best, Chuck the DrPH 

CRS, DrPH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 9:33pm

Hello all ! A forum is meant "to agree to disagree" but only can function based on mutual respect-no one has all the wisdom, we all have different backgrounds-live on the same planet.  We are all human-but keep mistakes as small as they are, do not blow them up-we all can learn from eachother.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 10:48pm

Beach.... I understand what you are saying, but one problem in keeping politics out, is that much of the response to the virus has come from the political leaders  eg the lock downs have all been initiated by political leaders (either national or local).   

Having said that, as this is an election year in the US feelings are going to run high (at times it seems to me like it is a religious war with people on both sides holding blindly to party line and feeling that any negative statement is akin to blasphemy, and that the other side is demonic).  Because of this, at times if I think politics needs to be brought in I do try to frame it in a more international setting (BTW there is more to the world than just the USA) or to deal with the policies rather than just the person.  

A further trouble in the heightened political divide in the USA is that many phrases or key words are loaded with lots of meaning to certain sectors, and while the phrase could be used in a neutral way its inclusion is a sign of hate [For example one thread I started on Brazil was responded to with a reference to Bill Gates, who seems to be one of the hate targets of the conservative right.  In itself the post was OK, but when one knew where the poster was on the political line it became clear that the post was a political message rather than a serious contribution to the discussion]


I don't think we can keep politics out, but THANK YOU Beachmom for the reminder to try to keep things civil.  We all get worked up from time to time and do need to be reminded again to calm down.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 3:16am

The world is in a bit of a state right now and almost everyone with a brain is stressed to a greater or lesser extent, and so what you're seeing here are emotional responses. When people can't control what's happening around them, one thing they can control are their opinions and so they shout and throw their weight around to give themselves a feeling of being in control of something, anything. So you're seeing very strong opinions being broadcast and defended vehemently, and no amount of counter argument will change them. It's not nice, and at times it's offensive and downright rude, but it's people grasping at the only straws within their reach.

I'm like Jacksdad in that I don't bother to read some posts either because of the person who wrote them (particularly the people who like to be contentious or who are looking for an excuse to take offense), so because it's a politically motivated post. Others I read but just can't be bothered to join in anymore because there are a small handful of people on here who are just looking for an argument at all times. I suspect they are frightened and feel they've lost control of any number of things at the moment due to the virus. I've got better things to do than to argue with them. It's a crying shame though, because interesting threads just turn into a mud slinging match and the original discussion is lost.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 3:21am

Also I'd say that any post concerning Trump polarizes the members on here completely down the middle. It's impossible to mention him or his administration without being shouted down by one side or the other. As a result it's not possible to make observations about actual facts of what he's done or not done without being accused of hating him which is ridiculous. It means that no discussion of any kind can take place about America or it's current covid 19 situation without being attacked in return. Every single thing is taken subjectively and nothing is objective. It reduces any discussion to the level of conversation I would expect for a group of 5 year olds. It's sad, but it's true.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 7:34am

Originally posted by EdwinSm, EdwinSm, wrote:

Beach.... I understand what you are saying, but one problem in keeping politics out, is that much of the response to the virus has come from the political leaders  eg the lock downs have all been initiated by political leaders (either national or local).   

Having said that, as this is an election year in the US feelings are going to run high (at times it seems to me like it is a religious war with people on both sides holding blindly to party line and feeling that any negative statement is akin to blasphemy, and that the other side is demonic).  Because of this, at times if I think politics needs to be brought in I do try to frame it in a more international setting (BTW there is more to the world than just the USA) or to deal with the policies rather than just the person.  

A further trouble in the heightened political divide in the USA is that many phrases or key words are loaded with lots of meaning to certain sectors, and while the phrase could be used in a neutral way its inclusion is a sign of hate [For example one thread I started on Brazil was responded to with a reference to Bill Gates, who seems to be one of the hate targets of the conservative right.  In itself the post was OK, but when one knew where the poster was on the political line it became clear that the post was a political message rather than a serious contribution to the discussion]


I don't think we can keep politics out, but THANK YOU Beachmom for the reminder to try to keep things civil.  We all get worked up from time to time and do need to be reminded again to calm down.


Beach, what Edwin says goes double for me.  The entire situation, right down to the science, has been corrupted by leaders politicizing the messaging and news.  

For my part, fake news is a pet peeve of mine.  Conspiracy theory with cherry picked information is too.  And there seems to be a lot of it bleeding into this forum.  Right now we don't need fake news or support mixed and misleading messaging from those very same leaders who are perpetrating it.  It is impossible to leave out politics.  

Kiwi's denigrating comment of sophomoric behavior aside, shows she's no better.  But, she is right in that you can simply not read certain people's posts.  It's okay.  No matter who you choose not to read.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 2:44pm

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Kiwi's denigrating comment of sophomoric behavior aside, shows she's no better.  But, she is right in that you can simply not read certain people's posts.  It's okay.  No matter who you choose not to read.  

Hardly. I'm calling it out for what it is. It's a group of adults trying to have a reasonable discussion and then one or two people - who, I presume aren't eloquent enough to actively take part in an adult discussion - dragging it down to their normal intellectual level. It's just wasting everyone's time. Some people on here are so touchy they are constantly on the lockout for an opportunity to throw their toys out of the pram.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 6:35pm

I rest my case.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 9:05pm

And generally it seems to be new members, people who've joined since Covid 19 appeared.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (4) Thanks(4)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 2:18am




I have been on this site for 14 years since 2006

I have never commented about any previous  President it's none of my business,

But I'm from the school which 

Says Bad things happen when good folks fail to speak up. 

So I will never apologise for having a go at the present leader of the USA,

He seems to relish in denigrating others, I have never heard this from any other leader, any where in the world, let alone the so called leader of the Free world, 

He has bought the presidency into disrepute as far as im concerned.

From the pussycat grabbing comment to Rubbishing John McCain,(who I admired greatly)

mocking people with a disability,

im sorry I think he is a vile excuse for a human being.

So if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.or toughen up princesses.....

I know I should keep political post on the political thread,

I will try harder....

No promises......

Stay safe all.....





Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 5:19am

She wasn't directing that snipe at you, Carbon.  It was at me and other "newbies" she has issue with.  And she's allowed to, I don't take it personally.  What she fails to remember is that I was a member of this forum who like many had their accounts wiped at some point.  But things were quiet on the Pandemic front so I just never made up a new one until recently.  I was also a member of Singtomeohmuse and Fluwiki.  All with the same screen name I use now.  I don't expect people to remember though.  I know that most Americans have the memory of a gnat, so it's always a surprise when they do.  

Stay safe and healthy!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 10:53am

I am new on the forum as far as making a screen name and actually posting, but I have been following this forum for years now.

I was also a member of Singtomeohmuse.

I tend to not debate much if at all.  I really enjoy the science behind things and that is what I find interesting in this forum.

Having said that,  I voted for Obama and even worked the polls for him and got spit at by a middle aged white man when I did, but shocker..I also voted for Trump...in fact, at the time I was dating the head of Trump's campaign HQ here in Virginia. But and its a big but....I hate him now, hate is not even a strong enough word for me...and my son who also voted for him, has changed his mind too...so see - we can change our minds.  I almost feel like a veil has been lifted and I finally see the light...why his antics before he was elected (such as making fun of the disabled) did not deter me...i can't even say, except I am ashamed that it didn't.


'When you feel as though you can't do something, the simple antidote is action: Begin doing it. Start the process, even if it's just a simple step, and don't stop at the beginning.'
Marcus B
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 1:47pm

Great post, Tabitha, you give me hope.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 3:37pm

As I said,who you elect as a leader is up to you, 

As leaders here are up to Us,

I have never and will never vote for the party that is in power here,

But I will sing their praises,becsuse here all politicians from all sides have pulled together to keep ALL AUSTRALIANS SAFE,

 Here "Mateship"

IE looking after your fellow citizen is ingrained in the Aussie psyhic,

even though we have been very lucky and not seen the virus "Take off" especially here in Perth western Australia,everyone seems to try and do "the right thing"

Our government has given every worker $750 a week for six months, no landlord can evict anyone for not paying their rent, banks have, frozen mortgages,for 6 months for those not able to work, 

Of course we will have to pay it back in the future by way of increased taxes,and the defered mortgages will have to be payed but with no compounded interest for the 6 months,

I'm currently only working 3 days a week, but with holiday pay Im taking home more a week than normal....

America is a way more wealthy country than ours, I don't know if your government has done the same ,thing to look after you citizens ,I would hope so.

I sure someone will enlighten me.

Stay safe All......



Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 3:41pm

Please excuse my maybe disjointed posts,and typo's,have been posting on cell phone for months, we currently redecorating and can't find a nice desk for computer...lol

Stay safe

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 4:00pm

I have been off work since March 18th. I am receiving unemployment benefits of $991 a week. My employer continues to pay for my health, dental and life insurance, The government gave each adult $1200 to help with extra expenses. It's up to my employer when they want us to return to work.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 21 2020 at 6:16pm

Thanks for that info. Very similar package, i think the UK is the same, So do you think you will have a tax increase to pay for that,? My big worry as is everyone else's what happens if this comes back, And I have know idea when this state will open up to "outsiders" Our tourist industry is Smashed,, Lucky we have our mining/oil and gas industries which are our backbone here,which us still operating Take care all

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2020 at 2:47am

Yes, It's why I like our chancellor so much.  He saw the need and ideology went out the window.

The rest of the parliament's pandemic planning failed to make the grade and the upcoming taxes will be crippling.  But it was the right thing to do.

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BeachMama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2020 at 10:29am

I am grateful for the input of every person who posted in reply to my post, and all those who were kind enough to post a gracious response — I have heard you and I have definitely carefully considered your points of view. I do concede that the politics of this situation are inseparable from the situation itself. Those who suggested I just stay away — I can’t do that. This forum is invaluable to my family. Y’all are the reason we were prepared. So if it means that I need to put my conflict fatigue aside and just suck it up, that’s what I’ll do. I have a debt of gratitude.

I just felt that I had to say what I did, and I am grateful that most of you were kind. Thank you for that. Many blessings to all of you. I feel like we’re going to need them for the months ahead.

(AND CRS, thank you!) 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2020 at 6:21am

I'm a middle school science teacher. The observation I would like to point out- students used to enter my class with very little scientific knowledge. Now, by age 12, they have strong "beliefs" about science. They find controversy in nearly every topic. From flat Earth to moon landings, I spend a ridiculous amount of time on conspiracy theories. My observations are that it has become progressively worse over the last 20 years. They have very little stamina for nuance, analysis or critical thought. I've decided my life's work is to increase scientific literacy, but that work has become tethered to politics in an unhealthy way, in my opinion. I tell my students they must be respectful to one another, even if they disagree, but science doesn't tend to have "two sides" to every topic. We must base our understanding on the evidence available to us. No evidence should equal no opinion, but political leaders use the fact that real research is time consuming and confusing to inject themselves into the fray, and further the public divide. The current pandemic just made this problem more evident.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2020 at 10:55am

Our Governor is supposedly going to decide on Tuesday if he will make masks mandatory for Virginia (its actually been scooped by local news that this WILL happen, but when you point that out to folks, they vehemently deny it as FAKE NEWS) so I will sit back and let the vocal minority loose their collective minds over this when it does happen after the Governors briefing on Tues.

The latest "thing" I am seeing with some of my facebook "friends" is they are rebelling against the phrase "the NEW NORMAL"....they don't like that one bit...they say 'no, its not the new normal...its getting back to NORMAL" 

I honestly think that they believe if they say it, its true.

'When you feel as though you can't do something, the simple antidote is action: Begin doing it. Start the process, even if it's just a simple step, and don't stop at the beginning.'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2020 at 11:00am

And I have posted this before...but since its Memorial Day Weekend..take a quick gander at our open beach....found out VA Beach has a new campaign going up in NY and NJ that "our beaches are OPEN" come on down!!


https://www.surfchex.com/cams/virginia-beach-web-cam/

'When you feel as though you can't do something, the simple antidote is action: Begin doing it. Start the process, even if it's just a simple step, and don't stop at the beginning.'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeachMama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 8:10am

Originally posted by AandEM AandEM wrote:

I'm a middle school science teacher. The observation I would like to point out- students used to enter my class with very little scientific knowledge. Now, by age 12, they have strong "beliefs" about science. They find controversy in nearly every topic. From flat Earth to moon landings, I spend a ridiculous amount of time on conspiracy theories. My observations are that it has become progressively worse over the last 20 years. They have very little stamina for nuance, analysis or critical thought. I've decided my life's work is to increase scientific literacy, but that work has become tethered to politics in an unhealthy way, in my opinion. I tell my students they must be respectful to one another, even if they disagree, but science doesn't tend to have "two sides" to every topic. We must base our understanding on the evidence available to us. No evidence should equal no opinion, but political leaders use the fact that real research is time consuming and confusing to inject themselves into the fray, and further the public divide. The current pandemic just made this problem more evident.

I am a fourth grade teacher myself, and I see the seeds of this problem sprouting in my own students.  I try so hard to emphasize the necessity of evidence, in reading as well as science. We’re up against a tidal wave, aren’t we? But maybe it will stick with some of these students — if not now, then later.

I totally agree with your analysis. I see what you are talking about in the adults I interact with on a daily basis as well, some in my own family. Facts mean nothing when faced with their own opinions. It used to simply be frustrating — now, it is frightening. It is a learning opportunity for my own kids...this is why we follow the science and the facts! 

Thanks for your post. I appreciated reading it. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 2:40pm

Thank you BeachMama,  nice to "meet" a fellow teacher.  I don't think I am being overly dramatic when I say that our democracy depends on the next generation being scientifically literate.  But, I agree 100% with your tidal wave observation.  I think we just have to keep doing our best, and maybe this current situation will shine a light on the issue.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 3:13pm





Thank you both for your informative posts,

 I can't understand

 WHY

this science denial we see all over,

SCIENCE has taken us from the 

Cave to the Moon and back....

Just ask anyone what the KT boundary is

 I have only met 2 people that know,

and it's the Most important event in this  planets history.....

Own up,

How many had to Google KT boundary? 

Be honest.....






Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 3:42pm

Not I - I'm married to a dinosaur freak.

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 4:02pm

Here in NZ in the part of the South Island that I live in,  we have a lot of creationalists who literally believe in the creation outlined in the bible. We know loads of them. They have their own science books to explain geography as they believe it to be. It's fascinating.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 5:01pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Here in NZ in the part of the South Island that I live in,  we have a lot of creationalists who literally believe in the creation outlined in the bible. We know loads of them. They have their own science books to explain geography as they believe it to be. It's fascinating.

It is fascinating.  I live within driving distance of "The Ark Encounter." My community has many churches that take trips there.  It hasn't been too much of a problem, up until more recently.  The school board adopted textbooks have always provided some cover for us as teachers.  I could always refer back to " I teach the curriculum the school board has chosen for us."  It becomes more difficult when we are using on-line resources.  Since it is so easy to make any website look "legit", scientific sources get lost in the sea of misinformation.  I think the current health crisis is projecting this problem onto the entire world, at a time when political division is so extreme.  

I once attended a seminar designed for climate scientists, geologists, members of government agencies, and not for teachers.  I had won a chance to be there and receive funding for a grant.  I began drawing a crowd when I explained that I teach climate science from a 25-year-old textbook because their research seems designed for each other, not the general public. My colleagues and I don't have the time to make most of the current information appropriate for a classroom and the majority of my students are climate deniers at age 12.  They were stunned, turning towards each other with horrified looks.  I explained that many science teachers won't bother dealing with controversial topics, to begin with, especially ones that are so hard to teach. I thought this information was common knowledge.  I tried to politely as possible explain that to me, their work is only as effective as the message that gets out of their bubble.  Some seemed to take it to heart and kept in contact with me about this topic.  I see many similarities between the work of climate deniers and the spread of misinformation related to this pandemic.  We are paying a big price for not attacking this problem over the last 20 years.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Legacy57 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2020 at 3:27pm

Thanks A and Em and Beachbaby for expressing so eloquently what the rest of us find SO frustrating about the war on Science in particular and intelligence in general. ☹️ A and Em, I am in Cincinnati so I too am an easy drive to the Ark encounter. I am sure the comic irony of the Ark's flooding last year wasn't lost on you either. 😂

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2020 at 4:38pm

Thank you Legacy57, No, it was not😂 

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