Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
A Matter of Respect |
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Posted: March 30 2006 at 5:40pm |
It seems that most of us here feel genuine concern for others, and a powerful need to tell others about the danger we percieve. The problem lies in how to do that in a responsible way. Sometimes, I just want to scare the crap out of people in a desperate attempt to get their attention. At other times, I recognize my responsibility to inform without deforming the truth as we are able to discern it. It seems to me that the answer lies in the often mis-used term ‘respect’. Carl Rogers, who was a kind of guru of interpersonal communications in the 70’s, defined respect as having a positive regard for the others ability to hear, and to respond. In Roger’s terms, we are all responsible, that is ‘response-able’, able to respond to truth when we hear it. In that sense, it’s disrespectful to remain silent because we don’t think anyone will care what we say. In that case, we are assuming responsibility for them! There are two important implications of Roger’s concept of respect: 1) – We are not responsible (able to respond) unless we know the truth, and 2) - We are responsible when we have been told the truth. It seems to me, therefore, that all we can do ( and it really is a lot) is to relay what we know to be true, without speculation, implication, or exaggeration, and allow the other to respond according to their own ability to hear the truth. They are, after all, responsible for their own behavior. |
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Siameselade
Adviser Group Joined: March 22 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 414 |
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Snicklefritz, a very interesting post, when you put it that way, wow.
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Siam
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You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. |
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Siameselade
Adviser Group Joined: March 22 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 414 |
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Yeah and how many horses do we need to get to drink???
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Siam
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Thank you, Siameselade, and Rick. BTW, the way I heard it is that 'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think!' I like your quote Rick. Haven't figured out how to get my own out there yet. Perhaps, you can help.
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Celira
Valued Member Joined: March 19 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Snicklefritz,
You post good points about respect. And I have a great deal of respect for my friends and loved ones who I have been trying to share my BF concerns with. But unfortunately, the respect must go both ways. They need to respect me-to the point where they will at least investigate on their own. That is why I don't just talk about it from my own limited knowledge, but I will print out and refer to info from "higher powers" ie the warnings from "respected" scientists, news sources & our own government, as well as suggesting they check out the internet themselves under H5N1 and the avianflutalk.com message board. I don't know what else to do at this point, other than quietly prep on my own and continue following the news daily to see how quickly this is escallating. Everyone has a "trigger" point (something that will ring true and help change complacency and disbelief into resolve and determination). For some, it will be in choosing to believe news from a "respected" source and for others, and I fear the majority, it will be the point where the PANIC has set in-with birds dying all around and schools & businesses closing from bird flu scares and food flying off the shelves & long gas lines and people afraid to even talk to each other. In other words, when TSHTF and it is too late to prep. For myself, I have chosen to RESPECT the warnings although the alarm is currently muffled. And I consider today a time of grace, a time I will always cherish because things are calm, the sky is blue, the birds are chirping, etc....these are the good old days. (sorry-posted a little more than I planned on-hope you still respect me in the morning !) :-) |
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I have seen that in any great undertaking it is not enough for man to depend simply upon himself.
Lone Man (Isna la-wica)(late 19th century) Teton Sioux |
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Snicklefritz , go to your profile and add to the signature. That's how it gets there.
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Celira, i respect you forever.
Keep on prepping. It is the best way forward. If we are all wrong. great I love to be wrong on this one and I have to eat a whole lot of pasta bakes. |
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Hermes
Valued Member Joined: March 23 2006 Status: Offline Points: 137 |
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the more you love your peer the more you feel the urgency to help,the more you try the more you are rejected,but martyr your self and this will be the utmost proof of love.
very good post, arent we supposed to lead a blind that cant see to cross a road,yes we are ,and what if the blind refuse your help,rejects you,and accuse you of disrespect,out of ........this is what is happenning here. i think yes people deserve to lead their life,but at least i did my human task to warn. |
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Fastcard
Valued Member Joined: February 27 2006 Status: Offline Points: 216 |
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Most people are incapable of processing information they do not allready believe. Give someone that doesn't beleive that BF could be a problem and article on BF their eyes just glass over. The truth is of little interest to most people.
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A Bible verse that is just perfect...... for the situation. |
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Fastcard
Valued Member Joined: February 27 2006 Status: Offline Points: 216 |
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The media is the one that could wake people up, by some intelligent coverage of the facts, though by the time they start really talking BF it will be a full scale panic and then all bets are off. This of course is JMHO.
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A Bible verse that is just perfect...... for the situation. |
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swankyc
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 314 |
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ahhh, if only.
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I'm not afraid, I'm paranoid. Dont talk too loud, they are listening.
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Buzz
advanced Member Joined: March 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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I guess we have all been thought of as nuts by some.My response has been just to feed people more information from respected sources and try to not sound like such an alarmist. Too that end I came across a great articl by Nelson Fabian, the Executive Director the National Environmental Health Association.NEHA. He writes in the Journal of Environmental Health a great piece in the January/February issue. You can see portions of it on the NEHA.org website link from the front page(only the first 2 pages are available). I have a xerox of the full article but no electronic access to it. It is 17 pages and goes into great detail about the potential for civil disorder and unrest. Unfortunately that portion is in the back of the article at pages 58 - 63.
I am sure the purpose of the article is to stimulate the local health departments into putting some serious effort into developing local plans with their local and state governments.
Gotta hand it to the guy though. For a director who has been seen as a real executive type who never published his views he is really setting a fire under the environmental health folks.
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Be Prepared
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Trident/Delta
Valued Member Joined: March 15 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 344 |
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Ok, at risk of falling off the limb that Ijust climbed out on, I am now at the point where I am only discussing H5N1 with people that either (are on this forum) or approach me and deliberatly ask me about it.
I am now to the point that I am uncertain whether or not I want a bunch of people that may only barely know, that I am prepping. If the SHTF, I don't want to be in th eposition of chasing people away from my door.
Perhaps a couple years ago I would have thought differently, but Katrina and the morass of human misery that brought their condition on themselves was a bit more than I could digest. To that end, my preps are now private, and I don't discuss them beyond my immediate family.
If that makes me a cold heartless uncaring person, so-be-it. I feel that there has been a more than adequate amount of warning and discussion on the subject and those that CHOOSE to ignore it do so at their own peril.
Thats the view from here.
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I read the article as well and I thought it was one of the best written and most comprehensive articles on BF that I have seen. I wish that NEHA would allow the article to be made public so that everyone could read it.
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JaxMax
Adviser Group Joined: March 01 2006 Status: Offline Points: 801 |
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I quietly ask the skeptical to assume that Dr. Nabarro and Secretary Leavitt are right.
I ask them to go to any Emergency Room on a weekend, witness the desparate hoardes first hand, and imagine the hospitals ability to cope with thousands of patients.
What will they do when their children are hungry?
What will they do when their children are sick, and all the Drs. are gone?
They usually get very quiet.
Then I shut up, and leave.
This has been very effective.
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He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm.Proverbs 13:20, The Bible
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Siameselade
Adviser Group Joined: March 22 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 414 |
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No Trident./Delta I don't think your wrong, you are a very wise man. You have up til now done what you could, being outspoken, I agree now is the time to be quiet. People won't wake up until, it starts, and we are hearing of the deaths, not poisonings, rabies, mystery illness, etc, but Bird Flu and seeing the numbers rising.
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Siam
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JaxMax
Adviser Group Joined: March 01 2006 Status: Offline Points: 801 |
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P.S.-But I also do not bring the subject up unless asked directly.My wife requested this. |
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He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm.Proverbs 13:20, The Bible
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Buzz
advanced Member Joined: March 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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I am sending the Exec. Dir. of NEHA a personal request to release his article on the web and seek additional distribution through the press. I will let you know what kind of a reaction I get.
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Be Prepared
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swankyc
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 314 |
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I Think bruss01 put it rather eloquently. To paraphrase, you dont want people you've told to come to your door wanting what you've got so dont tell anyone.
I'm a big proponent of being responsible for one's self anyway and hold the belief that the info is out there, if you choose to bury your head, you may pay dearly later. Don't look to me to make up for your ineptitude.
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I'm not afraid, I'm paranoid. Dont talk too loud, they are listening.
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Buzz
advanced Member Joined: March 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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Sniffels, were you able to get the whole report? I saw only a few pages on their website neha.org.
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Be Prepared
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Anybody can order the entire article from the neha website for five bucks.
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JaxMax/Trident --
I've taken a similar approach...for those outside my immediate circle I do not talk about my preparations. I have found that this event is beyond the ability for most to grasp. For those times when BF comes up in conversation, I respond. I usually ask them to imagine one out of every three people they know becoming ill. To think about a public hospital's emergency room on a normal day. To think about how they would take care of their kids. I usually get an uncomfortable look, and then I tell them I am here to answer their questions when they have them and I walk away. Even inside the agencies and institutions focus on emergency response or health care this is an extremely difficult thing to think about much less plan well for...
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Buzz, I am a member of NEHA and received the publication via mail. It was excellent and I was amazed that they had enough guts to put it into print when no one else was doing or saying anything. Personally, I think that NEHA would get a lot more visibility to have the article open to the public.
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Amethyst
Valued Member Joined: March 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Exactly. When your family doesn't respect you, the communication isn't going to work, no matter how much you may love and respect them. Communication has to go both ways or it won't work. You can try to talk to them all you want to, but you might as well be talking to a wall when they don't listen to you.
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OK! Everybody hold it right there. I started this post, and although it's true that when you put something in print it takes on a life of its own, I feel compelled to try and bring us back to the point.
The point is respecting the other ability to hear and respond. I am hearing undertones of a 'fortress mentality', and some notions like 'I told the bastards, and if they didn't listen, well tough sh_t!
There is real tragedy out there. Remember that I said people are not responsible unless they know the truth. Well, a person's ability to respond is limited by their ability to hear the truth. That ability can be limited by our families, social groups, culture and fear itself. Our responsibility is as limited as our ability. In other words, if our freedom to hear the truth is limited, for any reason, then our ability to respond is limited, as is our responsibility for our actions.
It is far to easy to write someone off becuase they won't listen to us. But, we all suffer in some way from the same weakness.
It seems to me that if their is any hope of coming together after the deed is done, then we need to avoid burning bridges beforehand.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
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Amethyst
Valued Member Joined: March 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Okay, but I'm 30 and my parents treat me as though I were a teenager, even though I don't live at home anymore and have a decent day job. They don't listen to me on ordinary things. They think I worry too much as it is. If I told them I'd spent money on food for prepping, they'd lecture me about needlessly spending money even though I use coupons. They don't want me to spend any money on anything at all, even though I pay off all my bills on a regular basis. That is how they are.
Not to mention, I've been lectured before by my stepmom who thinks I worry too much as it is. I haven't even mentioned the bird flu to her except in a joking manner to see how she would react. She said she was sick and tired of hearing about it in the media.
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fritz
Adviser Group Joined: February 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 332 |
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Snicklefritz, I hear what you are saying and I agree with you. I am a volunteer in a med size organization and I am trying to get BF and prepping out in the open as a topic of discussion. (I have made a lot of calls and sent a lot of e-mails this week!) I think a lot of people aren't hearing the real message that is out there of "our government is telling you that we need to prepare for our families now. Everyone is on their own if this happens". People who can not absorb this fact need to be helped to do so. That is what I think is the responsibility of those who can and have absorbed this reality. I will do everything I can to help those individuals realize this is indeed the situation. I feel it is my responsibility as a fellow human being. I will start small and hopefully effect some change if there is time.
See line below. It says the same thing.
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"I am only one; but still I am one, I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Hellen Keller
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maskman
Valued Member Joined: March 24 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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i can clearly see that we have several clades of the same joke circulating
the one i became infected with is this:
you can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think
and i know of at least one other that is just a teeeeeeeeny bit different than the above, but i don't want to muck up such a fine thread with any vulgarities
i am proud of what i am doing now
but how DO you make people aware, without scaring them?
there are no easy answers any more - all we can do is try to focus and simplify and be respectful to all
one way or another, this is history in the making
i am proud of what i am doing and how i am acting, are you?
first a disclaimer, before anybody gets mad at me - i have not read past the initial post yet - that was good enough for me to jump down this far and reply. i have not yet read ANY of the replies posted above, i've been too busy, frankly.
but i really think that this needs to be said, and i am not directing this at any one individual, so please do not be offended if you think it could apply to you
IF you are reading this, and
IF you do not yet have 3 months of food and water, and
IF you are not trying to get more, right now, this weekend - and i am not talking about panic buying, but just doing SOMETHING extra to get prepared for whatever may come....
IF you are doing all of the above, and you have found this site, and you plan to use all this info to get an edge on the ignorant masses at the very last instant before the panic hits, just in case you MIGHT be wrong about all of this, then you are evil. yes, evil. that is just my opinion.
i don't know you, but if you think the above applies to you, maybe you need to do some more thinking about all of this?
i just had to say that
i feel better now
today is march 31
i don't even use the year any more
this is history in the making
how will history judge you?
breathe, breathe in the air
don't be afraid to care
leave, but don't leave me
look around, choose your own ground
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hope and pray for the best; prepare responsibly for the worst
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I am reading the article now and it is truly terrifying.
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