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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

A Pandemic is coming

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Kilt5 View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 04 2018 at 3:45am

A pandemic is coming, and American politics have set us up for failure

The Diamondback-7 hours ago
H7N9 currently doesn't spread easily between humans, but it has killed up to 39 percent of those infected. An outbreak of a more transmissible but similarly deadly mutation would be devastating, and that mutation could happen at any time. Acting now would minimize the damage. Policy makers need to ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2018 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by Kilt5 Kilt5 wrote:

A pandemic is coming, and American politics have set us up for failure

The Diamondback-7 hours ago
H7N9 currently doesn't spread easily between humans, but it has killed up to 39 percent of those infected. An outbreak of a more transmissible but similarly deadly mutation would be devastating, and that mutation could happen at any time. Acting now would minimize the damage. Policy makers need to ...

Thanks, Kilt!  Sadly, the far-right in the USA is dominated by religious thinking that, if we have an apocalypse, Jesus Christ will return and take his faithful followers back to heaven with him.  

That is, unbelievably, part of the reason why funding for pandemic relief in the USA is lagging.  These people WANT a pandemic.  Sad. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2018 at 1:41pm
First off I want to say I don't like these types of headlines... they look as though they are news but it is simple fear mongering.    I guess you could argue that we need to be afraid in this instance.

My question is this... what do you want the policy makers to do?    What is there that is fiscally responsible and actually effective?   Is it money that is needed or just policy change?    I could see the government wasting tons of money on something that doesn't work for a virus that never comes to fruition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2018 at 2:40pm
I agree it is fear mongering, although not without good reason.  There will be another plague/outbreak/pandemic, the only unanswered question is when.

I used to know an Archpriest of the Orthodox persuasion, the equivalent of a monsigneur.  We used to have many rich theological discussions.  He died over a decade ago and I miss him greatly. 

His take on the bible and God's attitude to this world was fascinating.  The Orthodox/Catholic position was simple, this world does not really matter and its trials and tribulations are profoundly minor compared to the wonders to come.  The misery we feel is just because we "don't get it".  Do not misunderstand me.  This does not mean God does not care about us, it is just that the real us is immortal and the bit that is here is inconsequential.

However, starting from a religious perspective, God would not intervene anyway.  Assuming there will be a rapture, which is also mired in doctrinal controvesy, those who do not care enough about their fellow man, even/especially the sinners, are not the folk that would be raptured anyway.

The degree to which self delusion can flourish in those looking for an excuse to be selfish never ceases to amaze me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2018 at 8:51pm
First off let me say... any true Christian would want to do anything possible to alleviate suffering of their fellow man.

What practical steps do you want to see done for Pandemic preparedness?  One thing I know for sure we need better stockpiles of medicine/medical equipment and we need to secure supply lines for more.    I find it an abomination that we had a saline shortage this last winter... that should NEVER happen.  We need more surveillance and vaccine research.   We also need a LOT more negative pressure isolation rooms.      However I fear even great investments in these would only help us in the early days of an outbreak.    Regardless of preparedness I feel we will still be overwhelmed during the peak.

What preps do YOU want to see done?   Do you think if significant resources where applied it could actually prevent some pandemics?  Of course we need to be better prepared but we also want our leaders to be good steward of our money.   


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kilt5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2018 at 11:36pm
its now possible to buy pet insurance so when taken in the Rapture your dogs cats and horses will be taken care of by atheists who will be left behind.

And the insurance is not expensive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kilt5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2018 at 11:37pm
A flu pandemic is coming - I can guarantee it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2018 at 11:48pm
Epidemiology is my thing, but not the other health services.  That is one for Chuck.  I automatically agree with everything he says.  He is the expert here. 

Having said that, all your suggestions sound good to me.  I would add in a few epidemiological case workers with rescources/powers to isolate the spreaders of disease.

I agree with your analysis of true Christianity as well, The old friend I mentioned would also have agreed with you.  Sadly hypocracy is rife; within my faith as well as yours.  I think it is pretty universal.  I may disagree with you on the nature of God, at least in the fine details, but we would both agree that God is not fooled as to the really caring folk and those who just put on a good show.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2018 at 11:52am
If we just sit around and complain " we need to do more!"   nothing will happen.

If we can prioritize what is actually doable and would be effective,  then we need to organize and offer very specific demands of our leaders.  If we are smart about it we can actually get stuff done.  Avianflutalk.com could be where the movement comes from.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2018 at 3:32pm
how do you prepare a country like the USA when you cant even look after your Poor sick NOW

free health care would go along way to PREVENT deaths that are happening as we type,

also how do you prep for something that might not happen ,

and ive said before many times 

we are the VIRUS killing the Planet,

maybe Mother Earth has had enough of our POLLUTING ways...........

cant say i blame her.....

and i'm an Athiest so i dont believe in 

ANYONES GOD 

and certainly dont believe in Heaven..............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2018 at 1:18am
What an interesting discussion. For my two penneth worth, here's what I think:

- history shows us during the Spanish flu that many people died from dehydration and starvation that could have survived the disease. People, including their own relatives and good Christian folk, were simply too frightened of the illness to help. 

- whilst I may say one thing, in theory, and in the comfort of my own home while we're all healthy, I may well do a completely different thing when faced with a new, deadly and highly contagious disease that we don't fully understand. Would I help my sick neighbour and risk bringing the bug home to my family? No, I don't think I would. And, for that matter, I wouldn't expect my neighbour to take the same risks to help me. 

- Prepping an entire country is, in my opinion, as much about having pre=laid plans and protocols in place before the disaster as it is having feet on the ground or meds in the cupboard. A country like America would need to be prepared to say shut the borders, ground all flights, quarantine communities that have the disease. But we all know that no government anywhere in the world will shut their borders until it's too late. The financial implications would be huge and potentially fatal to their economy and so the politicians will keep saying "one more day, and one more day"and then they'll realise that it's arrived. 

- I agree entirely with carbon20 in that the USA can't even look after the health of their own population in these settled times, so how can they possibly think they will manage in a pandemic? I suspect that pandemic preparation in the USA consists of having enough body bags, and enabling the fast mobilisation of enough troops to keep the infected in a containment area until they die. I doubt any form of medical assistance would be offered as congress could never agree on who should pay for it. Would they seriously be asking for proof of health insurance in a pandemic? Perhaps separating the ill into two camps, one for the insured and one for the others. 

- finally, as to the consequences of a global pandemic, I have to say that losing a significant percentage of the world's population would be a good thing. There are too many of us. Obviously I hope my family survives, as do we all, but to lose 50% would, in the long run, be good for us all. And I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but I truly believe that once the dust had settled, we'd all agree on that, although of course, the end wouldn't justify the means.

We none of us remember the plague epidemics in the 14th century because it has long passed from living memory and all we have are a few sketchy accounts, but we can all see the huge financial and social benefits that were there for the survivors. Feudal serfdom was broken, a man was able to rise through the strata of society and the common worker was able to finally achieve a living wage due to the shortage of available labour. Men and women were able to break away from the life they were born into and destined to die in, and were able to acquire property, rise through the social strata as a result of their own labours, reap the rewards and break the cycle of absolute poverty. The whole world runs on the concept of supply and demand, and it did even way back then. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2018 at 2:57am
Agreed, KiwiMum!  I share the plan to risk manage.  When I was young and single, I was quite courageous.  Now I have a family and find I have far too much to lose.  So, I would be extremely careful now about risking my health and by association, that of my family.

I would try to be inventive; extreme barrier nursing for instance, but only if I could acquire sufficient protective clothing.  Recovered persons as nursing staff and quarrantined areas within my property would also be employed. 

But, there would be very strict and profoundly rigid rules.  There would be no serious risks taken.  I would attempt to take no risks at all.  If that were insufficient to help the sick - tough!  Sorry, but that is the truth.  Family first!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2018 at 11:14am
I find it ironic....    you guys will blast a "Chrstian" that is rooting for a pandemic.   I agree it is downright evil to wish ill on so many people.

Yet how often do I see a post on here wanting half of our population to be killed off.   These people need to be called out just the same way!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2018 at 12:50pm
I have been trying to be a bit more diplomatic than that, DeepThinker, but I do agree with you.

The world is seriously overpopulated.  We are poisoning it at an alarming rate.  We are deforesting it on a grand scale and wiping out numerous other species.  Nevertheless, population control can come from birth control if we are civilized about it. 

If not, Mother Nature will make us cut down our numbers the hard way.  There is a reason they call nature a Mother.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2018 at 1:06pm
Deep thinker, too often on this site, there are people who want to make science about religion. Religion doesn't come into it. You are obviously a Christian, and I tick the Christian box on forms although I rarely go to church but I do try to live by the Christian moral code which I think is reasonable and commonsensical in the world we live in. 

Let's not make this a religious persecution. But there is a difference between waiting for the rapture and for wishing for a dramatic reduction in the world's population. The region where I live is very religious and the first settlers here in 1850 based the whole district on religion and in order to settle here (I'm in the South Island of New Zealand, near Christchurch) you had to be a proven church goer. As a result 170 years later, religion and lots of small weird churches are everywhere.

Many of my friends are creationalists and very devout. To give them their dues, I have never once been preached to or has anyone tried to convert me. The women I know are warm, kind and generous and I value their friendship. 

However, waiting for the rapture is about personal fulfillment and reaching heaven to be with God, it's not about the welfare of the planet. Wishing for a population reduction is about life on earth after the terrible event, about the survival of our planet and the people and animals on it. There is a huge difference. 

As for it being evil to wish ill on half the planet. It's not evil it's inevitable. Eventually, whether it's in our lifetimes or not, something will happen that will knock back our population numbers hugely. It might be a pandemic, or a supervolcanic eruption that triggers a nuclear winter - and trust me, that would be the worst end possible with prolonged starvation and civil and international unrest on a scale previously undreamed of, or it could be an asteroid strike or a nuclear war. However it happens, it will happen since it has happened over and over again throughout history (not the nuclear option obviously). 

As for people wishing for the rapture, I heard about the group who all believed the rapture was going to happen last year and they paid an enterprising soul who was a heathen to look after their animals. This heathen, being a good businessman, took payment up front - which of course you would do since they won't be around to pay you afterwards. The big day came and went and they were all still here and so went and asked for their money back. Their attention was then drawn to the small print which clearly stated that in the event of a non event, no refunds would be given. Genius.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2018 at 6:58pm
Yes Yes Yes...a Pandemic is coming it has been coming since the last one 1918. When we have this new Pandemic, yes a Pandemic will be coming again.

Kilt5 you do not help by posting "A Pandemic is Coming" because that is what this whole Forum is about...A Pandemic is coming Avian Flu or something else. You are being repetitive, now if you could tell us what is coming now and we could do more prepping that would be helpful but are you just posting this to get attention.

Look KiWi mom and Techno make good points. I am not sure why Christians are always the target to blame that we do not take care of all ills. Christians will have to take care of their families too.

No Government will be able to take care of a Pandemic that is why we are all here. We will have to take care of ourselves and yes I am a Christian but will I go and take care of my fellow man...no everyone will have to take care of themselves. But am I a bad person or a bad Christian because I do this...I think not. People who live in glass houses should not cast stones. Kilt5 will you be taking care of contagious people around you or will you stay home and care for your family? I bet you will not, but do not cast stones at Christians just because you think we are easy targets.

Yes a Pandemic is coming big deal many will die some will live just what happens. I have prepped but will it make a difference maybe yes maybe no. At my old age I believe what my grandma said about death, The Old Must, The Young May.

Try a different more helpful subject Kilt5 like what to do when a Pandemic Hits.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2018 at 9:25pm
well said Flu Mom....what will be will be
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2018 at 12:19am
Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:


However, waiting for the rapture is about personal fulfillment and reaching heaven to be with God, it's not about the welfare of the planet. Wishing for a population reduction is about life on earth after the terrible event, about the survival of our planet and the people and animals on it. There is a huge difference. 

As for it being evil to wish ill on half the planet. It's not evil it's inevitable. Eventually, whether it's in our lifetimes or not, something will happen that will knock back our population numbers hugely. It might be a pandemic, or a supervolcanic eruption that triggers a nuclear winter - and trust me, that would be the worst end possible with prolonged starvation and civil and international unrest on a scale previously undreamed of, or it could be an asteroid strike or a nuclear war. However it happens, it will happen since it has happened over and over again throughout history (not the nuclear option obviously).


KiwiMum I am sorry if my comment was a bit harsh and too direct.   I  personally don't care for most "rapture theology" out there.   I agree that it can lead to selfish inward looking thinking.   I don't see how it serves society or the common good.  Besides it isn't very biblical it doesn't even have deep historical roots.   For the most part it is a modern American way of thinking.   I don't trust American made religions :)

Morally and ethically I see a big difference between acknowledging the inevitable and looking to see what good could come of it  versus actually wishing for it.   In ethics this is touching on  "law of double effect".   While sometimes it is okay to cause a bad outcome if your intentions are good....    it is never permissible to do an evil act to bring out a good outcome.   While good could come from a pandemic...   the pandemic itself is always an inherent evil. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2018 at 2:14am
Agree  Deepthinker with above, however,

I don't know if you can call a pandemic "inherent evil"

To me to call it evil implies a thought process, 


When its just nature, 

However, if a pandemic virus was manmade for the soul intent of killing billions, that person would be evil because he has Intent, 

where as the virus is just the weapon he uses,

a gun is not "evil" only the person using it in an evil way

Just my humble opinion.....Wink

Nothing to do with thread really lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2018 at 3:11am
Deep thinker, I didn't take offence at all at what you said. I just enjoy a good discussion. It's nice to see a new thread with some personal opinions in it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2018 at 12:56am
I wounder if this applies here,   fire marshal often gives us in-services at work  he is a really funny guy.   Anyways he poses the question "Code Red in the building whose safety is more important, yours or the patients?"   Almost everyone is quick and correct to answer "well your owns of course"  Then he asks "what about a code blue?"    Almost everyone the first time they are asked this question answer "The Patient comes first" .    Nope.  The answer is the same as t he first question...   You can't help anyone if you yourself need help.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2018 at 4:15am
Very true.  I am as strong as my friends - AND THEY ARE AS STRONG AS ME!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kilt5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2018 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by FluMom FluMom wrote:

Yes Yes Yes...a Pandemic is coming it has been coming since the last one 1918. When we have this new Pandemic, yes a Pandemic will be coming again.

Kilt5 you do not help by posting "A Pandemic is Coming" because that is what this whole Forum is about...A Pandemic is coming Avian Flu or something else. You are being repetitive, now if you could tell us what is coming now and we could do more prepping that would be helpful but are you just posting this to get attention.

Look KiWi mom and Techno make good points. I am not sure why Christians are always the target to blame that we do not take care of all ills. Christians will have to take care of their families too.

No Government will be able to take care of a Pandemic that is why we are all here. We will have to take care of ourselves and yes I am a Christian but will I go and take care of my fellow man...no everyone will have to take care of themselves. But am I a bad person or a bad Christian because I do this...I think not. People who live in glass houses should not cast stones. Kilt5 will you be taking care of contagious people around you or will you stay home and care for your family? I bet you will not, but do not cast stones at Christians just because you think we are easy targets.

Yes a Pandemic is coming big deal many will die some will live just what happens. I have prepped but will it make a difference maybe yes maybe no. At my old age I believe what my grandma said about death, The Old Must, The Young May.

Try a different more helpful subject Kilt5 like what to do when a Pandemic Hits.



Hey Flumon - all I did was post an article.

Number 1 - a pandemic is actually coming 
Number 2 - most people don't care or don't believe it and so don't prep
Number 3 - the H7N9 and or H5N1 will be like Hell has opened its gate

I think an article that states it clealy is a great thing - people have been warned and just go back to sleep
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2018 at 11:09pm
Kilt5, I agree with you. And I'm glad this discussion happened, it's been enjoyable.

I like your second point about people not caring or not believing and I would expand that point to include the fact that a potential threat for many people is just too scary to contemplate and so they bury their heads in the sand and pretend like it will never happen. 

We have a perfect example happening here in NZ with the relatively recent discovery of one of the world's largest earthquake fault lines and the now proven regularity of it's rupture, normally accompanied by a huge quake. This fault line runs straight through the middle of a town called Franz Joseph, and even though public meetings have been arranged with all sorts of experts to help the towns people to prepare, almost no one turns up. The problem is too immediate and right underneath them and not one building will survive the next quake which is now officially overdue.

I feel it's the same with emergency preps. We can all manage to prep for a bad winter storm because we know it's limits and that it will only be a temporary inconvenience. We can see the storm coming and we get plenty of warnings on the news, right down to the exact timings and severity of it. 

But a pandemic is a different beast: it will turn up one day but no one knows when, we won't be able to see it coming because by the time we hear about it, it will already be here or just around the corner, and when it is here, we still won't be able to see it, hear it or smell it and so everyone and everything will become a source of potential infection. And this scenario is just to scary for many people. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2018 at 11:51pm
I don't think it's a case of not caring or believing, it's more, they just don't have the," something," I don't know what you would call it, the ability to cope with the thought,they might spiral down, I once told my apprentice about a pandemic and gave her the book "the hot zone".she nearly had a break down thinking about it, 

It's like the Spanish flu,everyone has heard about the 1st and 2nd world wars,the Spanish flu, killed more yet it is wiped off the collective memory of most people,they can deal with guns and bombs,but a "flu that kills millions" most can't get their heads around it,trying to explain a flu mutation to people I work with, is like trying to explain  cosmology.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2018 at 1:54pm
Preppers are a small portion of our population. If you worked in schools you would see that this country and the world is doomed if a real pandemic hits. We now have people who do not even purchase their food at the grocery store they get it delivered to their homes and with the provided recipe they make dinner. You think these people have even 3 days worth of food in their house.


Then we have people like my sister who she or her husband go every day or everyother day to purchase their food. My sister thinks I am a nut for having the freeze dried and dehydrated food I have. I have gotten her to get extra food when we have had a few good scares with flu but I don't even do that now because those senarios did not get bad. Now she really thinks I am a real nut.

So how do we as preppers get others to pay attention...NO WAY! There is no way to get people unless Mormons to believe like we do and prep. So it will be some of the Mormons and some of us, and the ones who are naturally immune and there will be some that may survive a pandemic.

But to think we can get people to care that a pandemic is coming is wishful thinking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2018 at 2:45pm
FluMom,

bet your sister is FIRST on your door step if anything bad happens ,,

PREP ADVISE..................

keep it to yourself tell NO ONE about your supplies,

not your fault if they FAIL.................

your GENES carry on...............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2018 at 3:03pm
I could not agree more, FluMom.

Almost everyone seems to be in denial.  Those of us who prep are seen as nutters.

It is actually very unlikely that "The Big One" or "The Slate Wiper" will happen in our lifetime; but  I would rather prep and not need it, than not prep and get some nasty surprise. 

A decade ago my mum was nearing the end of her life and my immediate family and I moved in with her to provide care.  Because her circulation was bad, mum needed constant heat.  There was a big unexpected power cut, the first for decades.  Undaunted, hubby and I fetched a couple of primus stoves from the garage, boiled water and provided heat and a heat reflective blanket.  On went the candles and lanterns and we cooked dinner on the makeshift system.  I had packed away everything, washed up, and provided all needed medical care for both her and my disabled son before the able bodied neighbours had even managed to order a take away. 

Mum thought I was nut to prep - up until that point.  I went on to cook her a foraged meal that spring; she thought I would poison myself!  Not so, obviously.  later she kept asking for a repeat menu as the giant puffballs we cut slices from were so good!

My mum was pretty bright and had lived through a world war.  Being Irish, she knew all about the potato famine and the diaspora it provoked.  If she denied the possibility of unexpected disaster, what hope for the rest?

All the neighbours learned from the incident was to come and ask me in times of crisis.  Wacko
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2018 at 6:06pm
LOL, my sister is 800 miles away no problem with her. Some of my good friends who I have tried to get to prep do know I prep but I have told them I will shoot them if they show at my door. I have no problem shooting them and they know it. As my mother says she raised bitches and she is proud of it. I am a nice person daily but if TSHTF I will protect myself and my son.

The only people I will help are the ones who can help me. I have a few of those in my circle of friends but I can only help so much if things are long term bad. People just believe everything will be all right every day and that is true for my almost 70 years but that can change in a day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2018 at 12:37am
My view on prepping is kind of why I choose not to buy health insurance.    I seldom go to the doctor.   So I am totally willing to pay cash for any basic routine medical services I need.    Insurance would only be to my benefit in catastrophic circumstances.   The problem is any insurance that I could afford would only pay 80%.    If I had massive hospital bills.... that 20% I still have to pay will still bankrupt me.  If you are totally bankrupt does it matter if you owe $100,000 or $500,000 if you no way to pay?   So I choose not to buy insurance.

When it comes to prepping...    in a truly catastrophic situation I doubt that your supplies will make all that big of a difference.    In small disasters if you are smart you should be able to figure out how to survive as you go along.  

 LOL I think I just had a revelation.   If you do prep,  I think how you prep your mind matters a LOT more than how you prep your material supplies.    Have a way to defend yourself, something to barter with, and the knowledge of how to get the supplies you need and you should be good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2018 at 6:45am
If you think of most people's preps as being the standard we're told to keep at hand (72 hours seems to be the norm), then I totally agree. But I think you'll find many peppers have gone way beyond that and could survive on their stockpile for weeks, if not months. That would be significant in a major disaster. It's entirely up to you, but I refuse to be the person sitting in a dark house, hungry and thirsty while I wait for someone else to come to my aid. In a truly catastrophic situation, your rescuers would be no better equipped to help you than their own loved ones. Prepping beforehand is the only strategy that makes any sense.



"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2018 at 7:30am
Both true!

The longer your preps cover, the more disasters they cover you for.  The really big ones will have no rescuers - EXCEPT POSSIBLY YOU!  I plan to be the rescuer, at leat of a few.

Preping your mind is a big part of it.  Amassing knowledge, facing up to things and developing skills which aid in a disaster all count.  Dont laugh, but from a Pagan to a Christian, your faith does too.  It gives you strength inside - where it counts most of all.  mine sustains me when everything else fails. 

Learning how to defend yourself, basic medicine, how to farm, find water and hunt all help.  Smithing, basket making, sewing and a gigantic list of other skills eventually become necessary, more than one person could do, so a small, cohesive group is a good starting point. 

Hubby and I even play "the game game" when out on journeys, where we pretend to shoot any game or escaped livestock.  Every third bang is a kill and the day's winner is the one who achieves the most meals.  It is amazing how much it improves your hunting skills - and it's more fun than pub cricket.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2018 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by DeepThinker DeepThinker wrote:



When it comes to prepping...    in a truly catastrophic situation I doubt that your supplies will make all that big of a difference.    In small disasters if you are smart you should be able to figure out how to survive as you go along.  

 

DeepThinker, I fundamentally disagree with this statement you've made. Having a months worth of food and water, medications, pet food and $500 in cash in your house could be the difference between life and death for you. You say that a smart person should be able to survive as they go along but have you ever been in a severe emergency situation? People are scared and frightened people make poor choice and have irrational actions. 
 
I live in the South Island of New Zealand on the outskirts of Christchurch and I witnessed, first hand, the earthquake swarm that killed 185 people in 2011. I went to the supermarket, when it reopened to witness the chaos. There was no electronic payment available, cash only. And almost no one had any cash. Water was being rationed to 4 bottles a person (and that was person present in the store, not sitting at home waiting for you return with water for them). I used my water ration to give to a woman from the city's eastern area which was the worst hit, who was there with a baby and a toddler. I have 50,000 litres of filtered drinking water at my home in tanks and a well.

Most shops were shut, power was out, roads damaged, sewage pipes shattered and the cell phone network was down. People were really frightened. 

The saving grace for us was that our earthquakes were localised and the rest of New Zealand came to help us. Also teams came from 42 other countries around the world to assist in finding people trapped in buildings. 

There is an ongoing advertising campaign to warn us that we are now officially overdue for a huge quake on the Alpine Fault that will disable the whole of South Island and the bottom half of the North Island. We've actually been told that some rural communities will be cut off, on their own, for 6 months. They will have to rescue themselves and feed themselves. 

It is a frightening thought - almost overwhelming - when you start to prep, but you have to start small and build up. Just getting a months worth of food that you could eat straight from the packet or tin without cooking may well save your life. 

And if you are reading this and thinking that you don't live near a faultline / volcano etc, then think again. A disaster could involve a flood, tsunami, snow storm, pandemic, terrorist alert. No where is immune from a localised disaster that could affect your supply lines. It's all well and good to glib about such things, but trust me, if you are trapped in your home with no food or water, or with just crackers to eat and nothing at all to feed your dog, who hasn't eaten for 3 days, what are you going to do? Expect your neighbours to feed you? Good luck with that. 

Personally I don't hold tons of stockpiles because I live on a farm and have food all around me including dairy cows and chickens. But I could feed us out of our larder for about 2 months, no problems. I recently added 2 weeks of foods that we could eat straight from the tin, in case we were too ill to milk the cow or cook anything. 

Prepping needn't be a big money thing. Add 5 tins a week to your shopping list, or more if you can afford it and your stock will quickly grow. My advice would be to make a list of what you need for a week, and buy that stuff, and when you have a week's worth, then buy another week's worth. Don't make a list for six month's worth and spend the first few weeks stockpiling 60 tins of tuna, because if disaster strikes sooner rather than later, you'll be fine for tuna but stuffed for everything else. It's better to have a small supply of everything rather than a huge supply of one thing. 
You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2018 at 3:15pm
good words KiwiMum,

in any extreme situation the rescuers are the survivors ,

we will be in New Zealand in November,

CANT WAIT,

its my first trip hope its the South Island ,

would like to go to Dunedin, ( bet i want to move there after we visit)

 but dont know yet as its a suprise gift ,

all i know is its NZ ..................Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2018 at 5:41pm
We were going to move to Dunedin, and we flew down from Auckland where we were living at the time, and were amazed to see that Dunedin has hardly any trees. It looks just like Scotland. We ended up coming to Christchurch, the garden city, but since the earthquakes, the city is still devastated with huge tracts of the CBD devoid of any buildings whatsoever. 

Enjoy your trip though. It is very beautiful here. Any road map will show you all the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit filming locations. They're all over the place. I took my children to Hobbiton last year (in the north island) and it was amazing. 
You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2018 at 7:04pm
Prepping is a combinations of everything: having supplies on hand, food and items stocked to live on, medical supplies, the ability to protect yourself, the ability to hunt, fish, grow your own food, sustain yourself and your family if needed. If an emergency comes and you think you can just go out and purchase what you need you will be sadly mistaken. If you have ever lived near the coast and gone through a hurricane warning you know the grocery stores are wiped out several days ahead of time of pretty much any type of food, water, drinks. Then if a storm does come through, it's prolonged, trucks can't get through to make deliveries to the grocery stores, stores have no electricity to keep foods cold, or to run registers I have seen them using calculators to add with, so you still can't get basic supplies. Plus you're are also living without utilities. Where I live now, the slightest weather report of ice and snow and there is no bread and milk at the grocery store, lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2018 at 11:54am
KimiMum having a couple weeks of food and water on hand at all times is an extremely prudent decision.    EVERYONE should do this.   I am more speaking about preppers than go to much greater extremes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2018 at 2:16pm
I think that preppers who go to extremes stand a much greater chance of survival than the rest of us. Even if their supplies only enable them to keep to themselves and off the radar for an extended period of time and allow the rest of the world to fight amongst themselves. When those preppers finally emerge, they may well be the last man standing. 

Personally I don't have the resources to prep like that, and I don't have the storage space as I live in a small house. What interests me particularly is that 150 years ago, a person without a years supply of food was a burden to their neighbours and family and seen as irresponsible, and yet now they are seen as weird survivalists. The only way the early pioneers in America, New Zealand, Australia survived and thrived was because they hauled sacks of wheat berries and salt around with them on their travels.
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