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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

A question regarding 'asymptomatic infection' - Event Date: November 07 2020

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morpheuskrs View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morpheuskrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Calendar Event: A question regarding 'asymptomatic infection'
    Posted: November 07 2020 at 2:11am

How long, after infection, does an asymptomatic person, carry the virus?

Has there been a study into this?

Has it been discussed on this forum?

I ask these questions, because of what happened in New Zealand. They appeared to have eliminated the virus, during their own lockdown, and succeeded in having several days without a single positive test. Yet, when they began to release from lockdown, step by step, they began to get cases again. I came to the conclusion, that the virus was lying dormant, until conditions enabled it to spread again. 

However, if it can continue within an asymptomatic man or woman, who will not be taking any medication, for a considerable length of time, then we could be in real trouble. Quite simply, we will never get rid of it. Could they carry the virus be carried for twelve months or more, and therefore be infectious for nearly all of that time???

The moment any country, or even district, comes out of any sort of lockdown, spreading of the virus will resume. In the UK, the current four week lockdown, will only apply a brake on the spread, and will not eliminate it. December 2nd will just see the exponential rise in cases resume and within a couple of weeks, we will see the current case numbers surpassed, and the country will be heading for lockdown three, then four, and so on.

I hope I'm wrong.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2020 at 3:19am

Good question!

This is a novel virus; we just don't know yet.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2020 at 4:22am

We will be opening up our borders on the 11 November.......to other states that have had no covid

We been locked in

Since March......

Been asked to wear a mask out on public transport.....

We shall see what we shall see.....

Take care all  😷😉




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2020 at 6:57am

I cannot say for all the NZ cases, but I did read that some of the cases they are reporting are from the boats and the replacement crews flying in.  One case I remember was from a crew for a deep sea trawler.    I would guess that a good portion of their new cases are imported cases.


ps. it was a good question (ie it was one I had asked myself ;)  )

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2020 at 7:18am

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world/asymptomatic-covid-19-patient-in-us-carried-virus-for-over-70-days-6078701.html

Last Updated : Nov 06, 2020 07:08 PM IST | Source: Moneycontrol.com

Asymptomatic COVID-19 patient in US carried virus for over 70 days

The case contradicts the COVID-19 guidelines issued by America’s Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) that state that immunocompromised coronavirus patients are not likely to remain infectious after 20 days.

Moneycontrol News

    





A 71-year-old cancer patient in the United States was found to be carrying the novel coronavirus inside her for 70 days. The finding has made experts question the common belief that the virus survives for a maximum of two to three weeks inside the human body in immunocompromised cases.

For live updates on coronavirus, click here


The elderly woman, who was also an asymptomatic COVID-19 patient, was found to be contagious for nearly two and a half months. She was already battling cancer of the white blood cells, which had weakened her immune response and caused the long period of contagion.


According to a study titled ‘Prolonged Infectious SARS-CoV-2 Shedding From An Asymptomatic Immunocompromised Cancer Patient’, which was published in the journal Cell on November 4, the 71-year-old was suffering from leukaemia. This medical condition had hampered her body’s ability to resist and fight infections.


Notably, this case contradicts the COVID-19 guidelines issued by America’s Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) that state that immunocompromised coronavirus patients are not likely to remain infectious after 20 days.


The CDC had said: “Persons with more severe to critical illness or severe immunocompromise likely remain infectious no longer than 20 days after symptom onset.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morpheuskrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 2:02am

I have received further info, re long term contagion, in my local area (I deliver parcels for a living). One of my customers has a friend who has had to isolate since testing positive. She is a care worker, and was subsequently tested on a weekly basis until she gave a negative result, and could therefore return to work. She was asymptomatic for the entire period, but having tested positive one week into 'lockdown one', did not test negative until late October. She was therefore testing positive, weekly for over 200 days. 

While I cannot confirm this as evidence, ie it is not in any way scientific,  I do believe what I heard, and the prospect of long term infectiousness, bothers me immensely.

By the way, thanks for the NZ info. It does seem to clear up that part of my question. New Zealand should be congratulated on it's response to the pandemic. It's just a shame that the rest of the world didn't follow suit. In the UK, we seem to have got ourselves into a four way argument within our own nations. It seems that the 'Law' gets in the way in such circumstances.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2020 at 6:02pm

So I'm in NZ. We eliminated the virus with our initial lockdown and then kept our borders shut to all outsiders but we allowed NZ citizens to return home from the rest of the world. We also allowed other people in who were required for economic reasons (various American film crews, Americas Cup teams and their families, people in industry who are deemed essential). Anyone coming into NZ has to go into mandatory quarantine with takes place under armed guard in a 4 or 5 star hotel. We have 6500 quarantine places available. Every week we have returning citizens who bring the virus with them. All are tested on day 3 and day 14 of their quarantine and need to return 2 negative results to be allowed to leave. 

Our Covid figures are all  therefore in managed isolation and do not pose a threat to us. The community is covid free. However, because nurses, police, dock workers and the like have contact with incomers, we have the odd case that they contract and so these workers are tested weekly or immediately they feel ill. We had a case of the mutated virus that was on the ship that docked in Australia two weeks ago, because they stopped here first. The port official who contracted it did all the right things and it only spread to 2 other people. If someone tests positive in the community they are moved into quarantine under supervision.

What we do have here is an excellent track and trace system, free medical care and a compliant population. We all are fully appreciating just how lucky we are here to be living without the virus. We are living as normal, no masks, no social restrictions or distancing, routine medical operations taking place. And every night on the news we see how the rest of the world is coping and just how awful it is and we are all the more grateful for what we have. Hence, when there's an outbreak, we all work together to quash it as quickly as possible so we can get back to normal.

It's nearly summer here and we're all planning our BBQs and cleaning our pools and we don't want to be like the UK or the US or France......you name it and we don't want to be like them. 

As of today, we have 52 active cases in NZ. 48 imported, and 4 in the community - now in quarantine.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2020 at 4:11am

Originally posted by morpheuskrs morpheuskrs wrote:

I have received further info, re long term contagion, in my local area (I deliver parcels for a living). One of my customers has a friend who has had to isolate since testing positive. She is a care worker, and was subsequently tested on a weekly basis until she gave a negative result, and could therefore return to work. She was asymptomatic for the entire period, but having tested positive one week into 'lockdown one', did not test negative until late October. She was therefore testing positive, weekly for over 200 days.
If the tests used were antibody tests, that could explain the long string of positives without her having active, or even transmissable, covid.  

I'm not saying that is the case; this is a novel virus and will have lots more surprises to add to that one.  But it is one possible explanation.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morpheuskrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2020 at 9:40am

I must say, re technophope post, I do not know what type of further testing was carried out, except to say it was weekly, until the negative test in late October. 

Also, many thanks to Kiwimum, for the amazing detail she has made available to us, with regard to what is going on in her home country.

I wish we had access to similar info, as we would not be in the mess we are in. 

Mind you, 'a willing population?', maybe a bridge too far for the UK.

As for the vaccine.............Who knows what the conspiracy theorists will make of that!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2020 at 5:22pm

What you described happened  to me  i got Covid early April and survived sort of. i still have on going respiratory issues. I tested positive weekly for 178 days

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2020 at 12:06am

Sorry to hear that you are not fully recovered USK

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2020 at 3:49am

How awful, Usk!  You have my sympathy.  

"Get well soon." sounds rather trite.  

Perhaps: "Get fully well eventually." is nearer the mark. - If rather less poetic.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2020 at 4:36am

Thank you for your thoughts This post symptom COVId syndrome is no joke. It is like COPD but not. I never needed a nebulizer before but now I have to give myself treatments every day.  If anyone understand this the meds make you so jittery   It sucks. I am slowly getting better. Once a day now when over the summer it was 3 times a day. They say I will recover but it is going to take a few more months of this. I am luckeru then most. Some people Ihave heart issues and others neurological

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2020 at 7:06am

I am officially asthmatic, although I have never needed medication for more than a few days when suffering chest infections too. (I sing, I'm active and my mother was no a clean-freak by any stretch of the imagination.)  On the rare occasion I have an attack, I can force the symptoms to decline by deliberately breathing deeply and resisting the (massive!) urge to cough.  The only time I was given perscription bronchiodialators, they made me feel so unwell, with shakes and nausea that puffing, wheezing and having to sleep sitting-up was preferable.  I took them back to the surgery and threw them at my doctor.    

So I have more sympathy than I could put into words.   That REALLY sucks!

Ask your doctor first, but have you tried camphor (vicks)?    it is unique as a bronchiodialator because it is not also a vasoconstrictor.  It is not a particularily strong bronchiodialator, so it would act more as an adjuvant than a primary drug,.  But it might help reduce the doses you need of the stronger stuff and thereby reduce the side-effects.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2020 at 10:03am

Don't know if this'll help or not, Usk, but in the past I've had some success with making a "steam tent" out of a basin of hot water with a 3 or 4 drops of eucalyptus essential oil.  You just put a towel over your head and breathe for 5 minutes 4 times a day.  Very soothing to the lungs, and doctor recommended.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2020 at 2:08pm

Originally posted by ViQueen24 ViQueen24 wrote:

Don't know if this'll help or not, Usk, but in the past I've had some success with making a "steam tent" out of a basin of hot water with a 3 or 4 drops of eucalyptus essential oil.  You just put a towel over your head and breathe for 5 minutes 4 times a day.  Very soothing to the lungs, and doctor recommended.

I do similar,

But I put bowel in a plastic bag, and breathe it in, saves your eyes .......

I used to do towel over head......

Got the idea from "glue sniffers".....lol

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morpheuskrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2020 at 4:02pm

Some interesting responses.

To USK, get well soon. I know someone with COPD. Not pleasant. Lungs appear older than they should be.

The camphor idea. Not sure, but a character by the name of Jesse Boot (of Boots Pharmaceuticals) started out selling penny bags of Gypsum Salts, which were steamed up the nose, to clear congestion, from colds to mining illnesses.

Ammoniated Tincture of Quinine was a cure for Influenza. One teaspoon in half an inch of water, taken twice over twelve hours. Tasted foul, smelled like bleach, but it burned the virus out of you. Mind you, you were as weak as a kitten for a few days afterwards.....But no virus. You used to be able to buy it over the counter, but not now.

I wonder if anyone has tried any of the 'old' remedies for fevers and the like. Could save the world a fortune, which as things stand, we will have to pay, because the very rich will not.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2020 at 5:54pm

Thank you for all the ideas!  Unfortunately
i am allergic to eucalyptus  

 My throat closes up

I will try the steam and blanket over head if for just the facial   Hee. Hee

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2020 at 5:56pm

Also tonight I will try the Vicks vapor rub. My mother used to do that with me when I got Crop bronchitis 

Thank you again!  Sometimes I forget that western medicine is all about the drugs

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2020 at 12:32am

I use Vicks but it has eucalyptus  in it ......I think.,!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2020 at 3:53am

Camphor (the reason for vics) is best absorbed into the body through the skin.  It is possible to get it from a pharmacist without the petrolatum or any other essential oils.  (Over here you would have to talk to them and explain why you wanted it.  Probably because you can use it to make explosives.)  Failing that it might be available from a specialist herbalist - it comes originally from the leaves and wood of cinnamomum camphora. I believe it is also used in dwaili celebrations.   This is also a pure form of the camphor oil:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aromatherapy-100-pure-natural-essential-fragrance-oils-free-shipping-worldwide/132191011841?hash=item1ec732c401:g:OdcAAOSwZKBZFyj9

Hubby and I used to have a tub of crystals of it which we got from our local chemist and we would sprinkle a few in the bed when suffering from colds, flu or in my case bronchitis.  Hubby had pneumonia once; we used it then too as well as the antibiotics.  It was highly effective.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2020 at 8:16am

Those are all great ideas, and if eucalyptus is a problem, peppermint oil stands in nicely.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2020 at 11:50am

Okay I have to step in here and give a disclaimer on Peppermint oil.  Do NOT use essential oil.  Peppermint essential oil is toxic to humans.  In small doses like candy, it's fine.  But in a pure form it can cause more problems than it solves especially with delicate tissues like the lungs.  If you go that route use only a couple or three drops in a sinkful of water.  Only breathe in the fumes for 10 or 15 minutes.  

 Handling it is tricky to.  If you let it touch your skin, I guarantee you that you will taste it for days.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2020 at 12:26pm

Huh, interesting.  I had never heard that.  I have used it for years that way, couple drops in a basin, for only five minutes, though.  Had a doctor in California put me on to the essential oils.  I do prefer eucalyptus, though, reminds me more of Vicks and my mother.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2020 at 4:25pm

Well I did the towel and steam then Vicks before bed. The dog would not get near me!  HaHaHa

Guess what!  I was able to get through the entire day today without having to do a treatment. Wooo hooo!

Thank you all of you for the helpful advice this is what you all are really 

Good at

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2020 at 4:31pm

Yes, I bet that steam by itself would work well!  Wonder if a bath with sea salt where you closed the door and just inhaled the steam with the salt in it would work, while you were soaking and relaxing.

A friend of mine who is another long-hauler swears by Dr. Andrew Weil's 4-7-8 breathing as a way to strengthen the lungs, also.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2020 at 2:19am

I am really happy it worked!  That is all the thanks needed.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morpheuskrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2020 at 8:38am

I must be going slightly mad......

When I said gypsum Salts....... I should have said EPSUM salts.

Hope nobody tried the former.

Sorry about that.

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