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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

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steve 101 View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 07 2006 at 2:49pm
01:37
8/03/2006
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Russian news & information agency "RIA Novosti"
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Devastating bird flu pandemic one step away - expert

15:39 | 07/ 03/ 2006
Print version

MOSCOW, March 7 (RIA Novosti) - The world is one step away from a bird flu pandemic that cannot be averted by quarantine or vaccination, a Russian expert said Tuesday.

"One amino-acid replacement in the genome remains to make the virus transferable from human to human," said Dmitry Lvov, the director of a virology research institute at the Russian Academy of Medical Sciences.

Lvov said the pandemic virus could strike at any moment, and would most likely come from China, leading to tens of millions of human deaths, or one third of the global population. He added quarantine measures could delay the pandemic for a few days but not prevent it, and that vaccination would not stop people getting sick.

"A good vaccine will only save [people] from death and complications, but not from the illness itself," he said.

Lvov said any pandemic was based on a hybridization of the bird and human viruses.

Pigs are the most vulnerable animals in the face of both human and bird viruses, which makes them "an intermediary link between human and bird flu," he said.

Lvov said the bird flu pandemic was irreversible like any other natural cataclysm, and would not stop until the highly pathogenic strain mutates into a less dangerous one.

"When will it stop? When highly pathogenic strains localized in wild birds are once again transformed into a low-pathogenic one according to the law of nature," Lvov said.

He said all that could be done to deal with the pandemic was large amounts of vaccination, hundreds of thousands of beds in intensive care, and the necessary instruments and medicines.

Lvov also said that the bird flu virus would shortly sweep the south of central Russia, specifically the Astrakhan, Rostov-on-Don, and Volgograd Regions.

The Agriculture Ministry said Monday that bird flu had been registered in eight regions in the south of the country, a major stopover area for migrating birds.

The ministry said over 1.3 million birds had died or been slaughtered in three outbreaks of bird flu since July 2005.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 2:51pm
Steve do you have a link to this, please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drpepper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 3:02pm
the pandemic virus could strike at any moment,  leading to tens of millions of human deaths, or one third of the global population. He added quarantine measures could delay the pandemic for a few days but not prevent it, and that vaccination would not stop people getting sick.  guess we have to quarantine until theres a widely available vaccine? great. this is pretty devastating news. makes you wonder what the us would be like with less than a 100 million people. im officially afraid. just for the record.

i saw this posted in another location. i am guessing 2 weeks tops. please no one flame me.....its just a gut feeling. hope you are all laughing at me in 2 weeks. sincerely i do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck-91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 3:28pm
Going out on a limb. My GUESS is 2-4 weeks. Our guesses converge at 2 weeks drpepper, hope they laugh at both of us. Frightened nobody will be laughing anywhere for a while.
Those who will not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 3:36pm
Sorry to say, I think you're optimistic. Nine days.

Hey! We should do a pool! Choose dates & times - have a prize. You gotta laugh.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote birdwithoutflu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 3:53pm

In 2004, that same "expert" said that "up to one billion people could die around the whole world in six months and that it is highly probable that it will start this year (2004)"

He's been wrong before.

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/10/28/pandemic.shtml


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMeNot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 4:06pm
His comments were probably translated from Russian. The article was
dated the end of October 2004 so perhaps he meant a year from then. It
has only been a year and four months since then......and for all we know
the pandemic has already started.

He could be right.   
Flu me once, shame on you......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 4:13pm
Surely it will not reach North America for at least another three/four months.
Unless it gets in through infected poultry or mutated KFC's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 4:19pm

Originally posted by harpmandoodle harpmandoodle wrote:

Surely it will not reach North America for at least another three/four months.
Unless it gets in through infected poultry or mutated KFC's.

or it comes via airplane through via human....

who was ground zero .....???????

you mean he(she) took off 10 days ago...we are screwed..time to bend the world over and they can all kiss thier @@ses good bye....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 4:39pm
I didn't read the thread as discussing when US would get it once it was
pandemic. We all realise that that will be virtually instantaneous with
communications as they are. I meant BF via migratory birds/imported
poultry in USA.

Pandemic is an endgame in all this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 4:41pm

Well, I think we are well along the road that leads to pandemic.  I actually believe we passed the tipping point a number of weeks ago.  Is it a pandemic now, no.  Is it stoppable... I no longer think so.

But we still have more questions than answers even if my hypothesis was accepted at face value.

How bad will the strain prove to be?

What will be the vulnerable cohort(s)?

Will it be a rolling wave after wave or a tsunami crashing onto our lives?

Will our other food animals be affected?  Cows, pigs, sheep, goats, deer, elk... I believe all are at grave risk, but that's just my opinion, based on nothing but following Joe's theory with a bit more than idle curiosity.

I made the decision this morning to finalize everything that I could by the end of this month...three weeks.  But I had some good news... my parents bought a kick butt roto-tiller this past weekend so I can cross that off my last minute list and spend the money elsewhere... maybe bring in that TP that I have been stubbornly putting off.

I have no sense of panic, more resignation... but I hope I'm wrong and would be thrilled to be so.  My life is so schizophrenic at the moment; I am trying to organize my lists for finalizing preps while preparing to welcome my first grandchild into the world.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 4:51pm
SophiaZoe

Take it easy. Enjoy that grandchild. If this world could get its act together
quickly wherever it H2H's on pandemic scale, it could be contained to a
region or country. That would be bad news for that region of course. The
world though could recover and then prioritise recovery for that region at
the expense of ALL others till eradicated. Of course this is a utopian dream
of mine and would mean a lot of changes in world view and breaking the
habits of a lifetime of a lot of greedy people (or 't**sers' in London English).

However, resignation is a good idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tired Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by birdwithoutflu birdwithoutflu wrote:


In 2004, that same "expert" said that "up to one billion people could die around the whole world in six months and that it is highly probable that it will start this year (2004)"

He's been wrong before.

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/10/28/pandemic.shtml





Thanks for the link!!! IMO this  is proof that is dangerous to play the "guessing game." You guess wrong enough, then people will stop listening.

The point is that nobody knows. This expert is proof of that!!
 

Better to be safe than sorry....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck-91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:12pm

Tired,  Danger noted, Acknowledged. We must weigh what might be gained against what might be lost. If we scream " WOLF " and a few people listen to what is clearly labeled as a guess and prepare and then we are wrong, nothing is lost but perhaps our individual credibility. If on the other hand we scream " WOLF " and are right, people who listened,might live who otherwise wouldnt.   Lives saved outweighs individual credibility. Everytime.

Those who will not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tired Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:18pm
Chuck, I never said that there was something wrong talking about the threat! I've been trying to get my family to listen for months now! I was just saying that I think guessing as to WHEN  a pandemic will happen can become dangerous. If I keep saying "this is the week" over and over and over again, eventually people are going to stop listening when that week goes by and nothing happens.

It's just like the story of the boy who cried wolf. When he finally needed someone to listen when the threat was THERE, nobody would listen.

Better to be safe than sorry....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GingerPluss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:29pm
I just pray the flu holds of for at least one more pay day!!  I just got started!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck-91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:44pm
Tired, If we say "this is the week" over and over and over again and even afew people listen and prepare a little over and over and over again then by the time they stop listening they might be prepared just enough to live. If we are off by a few weeks or months then those who listened will still be better off then if they hadnt listened to us at all. I stand by my last statement. Lives saved outweighs individual credibility.
Those who will not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valgard1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:46pm
Well the WHO is being very sneaky and tight lipped, I speculate that his virus has mutated into several different strains, one in Turkey the other in Indonesia, that's got the dot.govs in a panic.  There ia a hell of a lot going on behind the curtain, so I think the bomb is about to drop.

But I still cling to hope that we have another 6 months before the whole thing comes home to roost on our doorsteps in the USA.

China and Indonesia are the folks to watch...  
Do Right and Fear No One
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck-91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:48pm
gingerpluss, every little bit you do increases your % chance of survival by orders of magnitude over those who do nothing.
Those who will not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve 101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 7:35pm

 

hi siameselade,

here is the link requestd

 

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060307/43989397.html

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote araywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:09pm
I think it jumped in indo. If it did the best thing the WHo can do right now is keep its mouth shut. Which it is.  Now I would imagine there biggest concern is the infastructure .......they are planning. If that collapses we are all totally screwed.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiddlerdave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:19pm

Remember, people, there may be no "The" strain.  Just like regular flu, an avian based flu will mutate and change from the opportunities provided by the billions of juicy hosts infected (us).  It could also be that several Avian human high transmission strains will arise independently (just like regular flu).  We will adjust over time, but it's a process, not an event.

But with 6+ billion people, especially with fewer and fewer of them getting health care (even in the USA), disease will continue to grow as a force to be reckoned with.

Dave
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for us"!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:50pm
I give it six months or maybe I'm just being optomistic, if it really has started I give it three to be honest
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dejuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 9:07pm

Hello,

We have no indication of the clusters on mass scale at this point.  I guess that we have at least 18 months to 36 months.  This is my rational.  Over the last months this is the the recorded movement of the virus in highly populated middle east, Africa, and Europe according to the WHO.

 

5 Jan 06 Turkey reports its first two human cases.

Sporadic cases continue to be reported in

the coming weeks, but rapidly end.

23 Jan 06 Turkey reports poultry outbreaks in 11 of

the country’s 81 provinces.

30 Jan 06 Iraq reports its first human case.

2 Feb 06 Iraq reports its first outbreak of H5N1, in

backyard flocks in same province where

human case detected.

8 Feb 06 Nigeria confirms H5N1 in chickens – the

first detection of this virus in Africa.

9 Feb 06 Azerbaijan confirms H5N1 in migratory

birds.

11 Feb 06 Bulgaria, Greece, and Italy confirm

H5N1 in wild birds (swans).

12 Feb 06 Slovenia confirms H5N1 in a wild bird

(swan).

13 Feb 06 Russia reports the first H5N1 outbreaks

(at large commercial farms) in its

Caucasus region, near the border with

Azerbaijan. More than half a million birds

are destroyed.

China reports its 12th case and 8th

fatality. Many of these cases occurred in

areas with no reported outbreaks in

poultry.

Indonesia reports its 25th case and 18th

fatality.

14 Feb 06 Iran confirms H5N1 in wild birds

(swans).

Austria confirms H5N1 in wild birds

(swans)

Germany confirms H5N1 in wild birds

(swans).

17 Feb 06 Egypt confirms H5N1 in domestic

poultry.

Iraq reports its second human case.

18 Feb 06 India confirms H5N1 in domestic

poultry.

19 Feb 06 France confirms H5N1 in a wild duck.

21 Feb 06 Malaysia confirms H5N1 in a flock of

free-range poultry, marking a return of

the disease. The country had been

considered disease-free since Jan 05.

21 Feb 06 Hungary confirms H5N1 in wild birds

(swans).

In order for the mutations to take place we need hosts to be infected.  We all are playing the lottery at this point.  My point is that human to human transmission is on the horizon but still has to take time to mutate.  Case in point is the the number of other "experts" that agree time is short but not immediate.  Forum moderator Rick has been diligently posting these articles daily.  My friends "who are specialized doctors" and I have been analyzing the data that Rick sends.  We believe as do other experts the real test will come as this virus mutates in countries that lack adequate infrastructure and education to contain the virus.  Places such as Iraq, Indonesia, and the continent of Africa are prime candidates for such mutations to take place.  We believe the clock starts now.  Personally, for the benefit of all of us the longer we have to prepare the better off we are.  Once again my guess is 18 months from now.

Dejuan 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote outsidethecamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 11:14pm
Hello all...

Well, once again, I can only say that we, (each & every one of us) is only as preprared as we're supposed to be.

I post this after a terrible disagreement w/my daughter who is still living at home & thinks that her father (step)... & I are mad!!!

"When is enough, enough?"  She asked tonight..., in reference to our preps.

Well, "when we finally have peace"....I dumbly replied.

After thinking about this,  I discovered that it's really not about having peace here on earth, or about having peace with 0ne's soul, but about about having peace w/ GOD that's really important.

I marvel at how the saints in Fox's Book of Martyers" were able to raise their hands above their heads, as they were burning at the stake, &  the flesh was melting off of their arms, & still, they continued to give thanks to the Lord, in spite of their physical weakness.

All this is WAY beyond me.

All I can do is rest in the finished work of my Lord Jesus Christ,  & trust in it & rest in it.  (Labor, therefore to enter in HIS rest...)  No more work on my behalf (thank God, I'm so weary)...It's not about what I have done, but what HE has done that really matters.

I'm done preaching for now...

May God help us all..
Peggy in MN




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 3:08am
I would say 2 to 4 weeks.It was two steps to go human to human  2 weeks ago. Now only one step thay say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 10:04am

NOW!

by the time we would have got the news if any it would have started yesterday.

I say now in parts of the world. moving at the speed of as fast as various people are carrying it around on them.

6- 10 days and you will know for sure.

Don't wait to know for sure.

Start changing the way you handle the mail, money, fill the gas tank

NOW.

Speculation is the only tool we have with a threat that can circle the globe in 30 days. Test results&news is slow.Factor in human conditions,politics, money&bingo!The truth!Facts come after the fact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 10:07am
If the belgium story is H5N1 then it's probably statred
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExaminedLife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 10:08am
Peggy; tell your daughter to close her mouth, open her ears, and listen to her mother and father, because they have far more life experience and wisdom than she does.

Me thinks parents WAY overindulge their children in the U.S. today.

I see 14 year olds telling their parents what they're going to do, all the time.

It's quite sad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 10:09am

Right now I am going to wait until the WHO announces what they have been talking about for the last 3 days behind closed doors with 30 specialists..They will make thier big announcement on March 15th..that gives them a few days between this meeting and the release date to prepare world leaders..and everyone better have their personal prep plans in place...

March 20th the first day of spring here

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 10:22am

They will probably announce the winner for american idol or what paula abdul is wearing that night.

whatever they announce will be extremely calculated to affect the response they want. so then accordingly people will do what the WHO expexts of them.

Wait for the who announcement if ya want and other news. that is good. but to base any BF strategy wholly on what the who says or does is asking for the flu.

I say they are meeting behind closed doors cause they are quarentining themselves and wont be out till its over.

We are the ones who will have to live with the solitude of being locked up in our own homes for a mind numbing length of time so we need to come to the point of making our own decision. not the who? ask yourself. can you trust them?

Speculation is the only tool we have with a threat that can circle the globe in 30 days. Test results&news is slow.Factor in human conditions,politics, money&bingo!The truth!Facts come after the fact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 10:24am

Still don,t think there is going to be any good news coming out of there..

and I totally agree with you about the WHO..best to keep on preppin and don,t look back...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote endman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 10:26am
HO will not declare the beginning of pandemic it will be left to the leaders of  each country Not all the countries will get infected at the same time So why start panic if there are no symptoms. We need to go to work take our kids to school get the economy going
If everybody will just sit at home it will be worst that any pandemic
So no big news from WHO 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 10:40am
You know endman I fully agree with you.  I think you have hit the nail on the head, so to speak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 10:50am
Reading this post brings a couple of questions to mind. Those of you who
think we have 6months, 18months . . . are you considering that an infected
person could just get on an airplane and expose others halfway across the
world. How are you comfortable in predicting months at this stage?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 12:17pm
It looks like Charlton Heston might not be the only one dealing with plagues next month!  
"I am only one; but still I am one, I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Hellen Keller
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 12:28pm

I need minimum 6 months to get ready

 but believe it already started and we are just the last to get it .

 I  Believe we aren't getting correct information about how many deaths.  In some extreme poor countries

death is not really reported anywhere and chickens are the only source of protein

this combined equals needed cover up

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExaminedLife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 12:50pm

RBARNES55 hit the nail on the head, regarding poorer nations, AFAIC.

Poor nations have been massively under-reporting deaths of both livestock and humans because poultry is a major protein source, that's difficult and expensive to replace, in their diets.

The last thing villagers want is for some international agency to start poking around in their chicken coupes, and begin destroying birds that represent their money, food, etc.

Many asian governments don't want the world to believe they're not capable of policing their own back yard and managing their affairs.

Then, there's the whole tourism issue to consider, too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 1:00pm

I don't think Who will raise the level, due to political pressures, we mions would just panic and cause so much more trouble than what we are worth. 

You'll know when LA or NY or Toronto, are  hit.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 1:03pm
Well-since they have discovered some human cases in China who had no contacts with birds, I tend to think that we'll be hit by a pandemic in the US before it comes over with migrating birds as an animal disease.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote outsidethecamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 5:12pm
Examinedlife...

Loved your post!...(& several others as well)

You said...

Peggy; tell your daughter to close her mouth, open her ears, and listen to her mother and father, because they have far more life experience and wisdom than she does.

Me thinks parents WAY overindulge their children in the U.S. today.

I see 14 year olds telling their parents what they're going to do, all the time.

It's quite sad.

Amen, Amen, Amen!!!...I agree w/ you 100%!!!

Well, why are we surprised, the scriptures say that in the last days, one thing that will be evident is that children wlll be..

"Disobedient to parents" 

Go figure?

We're there.

God help us all...
Peggy in MN


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mightymouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 5:29pm

Muskrat Quote:

Right now I am going to wait until the WHO announces what they have been talking about for the last 3 days behind closed doors with 30 specialists..They will make thier big announcement on March 15th..

Caesar: WHO is it in the press that calls on me?
I hear a tongue, shriller than all the music
Cry "Caesar!" Speak. Caesar is turn'd to hear
.
Soothsayer: Beware the ides of March.

The soothsayer's warning to Julius Caesar, "Beware the Ides of March," has forever imbued that date with a sense of foreboding

Yikes!

Nothing matters - Therefore everything matters
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ps36 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 7:08pm
It was two mutations away a few weeks ago. Now it is one step away. That tells me that it is getting closer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 7:22pm
so the bird flu crosses over to cats then dogs.man exterminates all cats and dogs then procedes to make pets out of chimps and apes.many years later the chimps and apes rebel ect. and soforth.



on the serious side.Prep,prep,prep just one more step.God Bless All
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joseph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 12:12am
And I ask myself do I have enough food so I go get 4 more cases tomorow. Got my solor light today that act as laterns.   Phoned my daughter and the other side of the family and asked them to listen one more time.
snow in falling plan to get two feet tonight glad I got the wood stove. Dont use heat much on a tight buget spending alot of money. try to figure out how how best to survice, think it getting close. This has been going on for years but not like this, things are starting to escalate faster that I had hoped. prep prep prep come one come all do it fast for the price of canned food is soon to go up. do the math. supply and demand.
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