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Bronze age plague ?

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 27 2023 at 7:36am

Bronze age plague [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdjBUxPQwaU[/url] or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdjBUxPQwaU ;

What caused the Neolithic Decline in Europe? Was it the first great plague in history? And if so, did it cause a Neolithic apocalypse? In the 4th Millennium BC, Neolithic Europe experienced a sustained decline. By about 3000 BC Western Steppe Herders like the Yamnaya and related groups migrated west into Europe, changing the genetics and culture forever, and bringing about the Bronze Age. The male lineages of Neolithic Europe came to an end as the steppe herders had offspring with the Neolithic farmer women. Did this only happen because the settled farmers had already been brought to their knees by waves of plague? In this video we look at the first recorded samples of the plague - Yersinia Pestis - the same bacterium that caused the Black Death and the Plague of Justinian and Bronze Age plagues. Did the disease first become dangerous in the vast proto-cities of the Cucuteni-Trypillia culture in Eastern Europe? 

Video Sources Early Divergent Strains of Yersinia pestis in Eurasia 5,000 Years Ago - Rasmussen et al (2015) ➜ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti... Emergence and Spread of Basal Lineages of Yersinia pestis during the Neolithic Decline - Rascovan (2019) ➜ https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0... Analysis of 3800-year-old Yersinia pestis genomes suggests Bronze Age origin for bubonic plague - Spyrou et al (2018) ➜ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti... Video Chapters 00:00 The Black Death in History 02:02 The Plague of Justinian 02:46 Neolithic Plague 04:49 How the Plague Kills You 06:43 Plague Emerges in Cucuteni-Trypillia 11:21 Historical Cause and Effect 13:01 Did Plague Depopulate Neolithic Europe?

DJ, The video claims "Black death" in 14th century Europe may have killed up to 200 million-the global population was under 1 billion at the time...But it also makes clear a "mega-mix" of factors-wars, climate change were part of a stark decrease of population...A comment;

One of the hardest things to do as a historian is keeping the present day from coloring interpretation of poorly/not recorded events/behaviors. I've only met a handful of historians that can even sort of manage it.  Unfortunately the stronger your intrests/concerns the more they'll leak in. That, coupled with most of us having a latent desire to not be wrong, leads to some really stupid conflicts in the field.  I applaud this video as it manages to present the few facts available and presents possible explanations without backing one or two explanations as fact.

Do "population resets" are constants factors in history ? After World War 1 "historians"did se "world wars all over history after 1929 (etc) "economic collapse", now "climate change, pandemics" are easy to project on history...But it may say more on "now" less on "then"...

There are lots of "discussions/calculations/estimates" on pandemic deaths...The Spanish Flu-deaths (1917-1923 may be the "best period") at least killed 20 million people...but it could have killed up to 100 million people-5% of the global population...India, Dutch East Indies had millions of deaths but no basic civil administration of "colonial subjects-not citizens..."...

Even today some estimates on CoViD in India puts the number of deaths at 5 million+...So far corona deaths will be 22 million+ but it may go to 40 million depending on "definition"...what excess deaths should be called pandemic deaths (climate/heat waves/storms also major killers...). 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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KiwiMum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2023 at 1:10pm

I watched something yesterday that was talking about changes in climate and plague. Throughout history plagues have appeared when the temperature has dipped, normally after a large volcanic eruption.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYAsw1o7AMs

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2023 at 11:53pm

The YouTube story (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYAsw1o7AMs&t=28s) looks at 536; Researchers have now discovered that in 535 and 536 AD, a climatic cataclysm wreaked havoc on the world. Could a violent volcanic eruption of Krakatoa have caused two years of darkness, famine, drought and disease? In this second and final episode, we ponder whether this really was the worst time to be alive and learn how the catastrophe shaped the world as we know it.

DJ...I once read a book on a "two dimensional world" the idea of height-a third dimension-was seen as a crazy idea...In a lot of discussions on the increasing crises the 4th dimension-time-is missing...We do not know of relevant facts from the last 10,000 years...But the Cascadian earthquake from 1700 M8,7-9,2 (!!!) is just over 300 years ago...The 30/80 year wars-ending 1648, so less then 400 years ago...quite recent..

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War ;

The Thirty Years' War[l] was one of the longest and most destructive conflicts in European history, lasting from 1618 to 1648. Fought primarily in Central Europe, an estimated 4.5 to 8 million soldiers and civilians died as a result of battle, famine, and disease, while some areas of what is now modern Germany experienced population declines of over 50%.[19] Related conflicts include the Eighty Years' War, the War of the Mantuan Succession, the Franco-Spanish War, and the Portuguese Restoration War.

DJ...the total insanity wars bring up in humans -my view- shows a tendency for human self-destruction...Soldier/warrior is one of the oldest human "jobs"...

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age ;

The Little Ice Age (LIA) was a period of regional cooling, particularly pronounced in the North Atlantic region.[2] It was not a true ice age of global extent.[3] The term was introduced into scientific literature by François E. Matthes in 1939.[4] The period has been conventionally defined as extending from the 16th to the 19th centuries,[5][6][7] but some experts prefer an alternative timespan from about 1300[8] to about 1850.[9][10][11]

DJ...So if you put a start of the "little ice age" at 1300 [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_DeathThe Black Death (also known as the Pestilence, the Great Mortality or the Plague)[a] was a bubonic plague pandemic occurring in Western Eurasia and North Africa from 1346 to 1353. It is the most fatal pandemic recorded in human history, causing the deaths of 75–200 million people,[1] peaking in Europe from 1347 to 1351.[2][3]

fits in that "time-frame" (and is-of course-also linked with war/Asia end of [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire).

You have to look to the 4th dimension, time, to put risks in perspective..."gloom and doom" can be based on real facts..we rather ignore..

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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