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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

care homes

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kaye kaye View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaye kaye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: care homes
    Posted: May 13 2020 at 8:01pm

ennsylvania's Health Secretary Dr. Rachel Levine confirmed on Tuesday that she recently moved her 95-year-old mother out of a personal care home.

Outbreaks in Pennsylvania long-term care facilities make up nearly 70 percent of the state's coronavirus-related deaths and 21 percent of the state's positive cases of the virus.

In a Wednesday press conference, Levine announced that of the 58,698 confirmed cases statewide, 12,408 cases are among residents of long-term facilities, including nursing homes and personal care homes. Of the total 3,943 deaths in Pennsylvania, 2,705 have occurred in residents in long-term facilities.

https://www.newsweek.com/pennsylvania-health-secretary-moved-mother-out-nursing-home-coronavirus-death-toll-increased-1503853


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kaye kaye View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaye kaye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2020 at 8:54pm

https://whyy.org/articles/covid-patients-and-nursing-homes-a-risky-but-possibly-lucrative-mix/


ut the city doesn’t have any regulatory power over these facilities — that’s the state’s job. The Pennsylvania Health Department guidance still instructs long-term care facilities to accept COVID-19 patients from hospitals, as long as they follow proper isolation protocols.

A department spokesman would not indicate how many facilities were doing this. The department is also encouraging facilities to keep positive patients together in a separate area.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2020 at 10:55pm

I think one failure throughout most of the world has been to concentrating resources on hospitals at the expense of care homes.


We knew from the early data from China that old people were at a greater risk from this virus, and that much of the risk group was in care homes.  However, it seems little effort was spent in the early stages to help support such places.  


There are far fewer hospitals than care homes, which makes supporting hospitals easier and would involve less administration work.  It looks like politicians of all stripe have gone for the easy option.  


In the UK, I think there have been a similar number but slightly more staff deaths in Care Homes due to Corvid19 than there have been in hospitals - yet the hospital staff have been receiving all the praise, while press and politicians have largely ignored Care Home staff.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flubergasted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2020 at 4:53pm

Yep.  I said it before it even made it to the U.S.  Longterm care would be the frontline, but the workers there would be the least protected, and I was right, sadly.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaye kaye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2020 at 9:12pm

Originally posted by Flubergasted Flubergasted wrote:

Yep.  I said it before it even made it to the U.S.  Longterm care would be the frontline, but the workers there would be the least protected, and I was right, sadly.

Not just the workers.  Some of the states allowed and demanded that these facilities accept covd  19 patients.  They killed elderly people.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2020 at 10:25pm

No one in the press is going after Cuomo or other governors for putting Covid patients with the old folks homes instead of using the convention centers set up for that purpose.  I bet 50 % or more deaths are from assisted/independent living and nursing homes. After President Trump had Javier's Center set up to accept Clovid patents NONE went there Cuomo sent them to the old people's homes and killed a bunch of our elderly.  They go after Trump but not after Cuomo...no justice for the dead.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2020 at 2:03am

True.

The UK government is doing that too.  It is murder, pure and simple.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2020 at 3:55am

Just FYI... no one in the press is going after Cuomo because whatever information those that believe Cuomo forced facilities to take nursing homes has cherry-picked information (gee now there's a surprise.)   That very same order included that if the facility did not have isolation capabilities they were to contact NY HHS to deal with infectious patients.  This is where the failure came in.  HHS was never notified.  There is now an investigation to find out which facilities never bothered to contact HHS. To circumvent a further problem, Cuomo has ordered that all nursing home staff be tested twice a week and sent out 110,000 tests to get them started.  

Keep mentioning Cuomo and NY's failures.  You have a New Yorker on board who gets FULL information. Not the cherry-picked chit you get off Fox.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2020 at 4:40am

That does put a different slant on things.

Then again, even if Cuomo DID feed "those people to the wolves", the amount of blood on his hands is still less than the crimson  lake the White house is drowning in.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2020 at 2:03pm

I never said, nor ever will say Cuomo hasn't made mistakes.  But in this case, cherry-picked news to make him somehow more culpable and feed people pablum so they'll look elsewhere and blame, is not something I'll tolerate without calling it out as misleading.  I'm very disappointed that this forum seems to have become a fount of conspiracy theory and misinformation.

When all is done and dusted, I am comfortable with Cuomo's decisions and actions taken to mitigate damage to New Yorkers.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaye kaye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2020 at 3:28pm

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

I never said, nor ever will say Cuomo hasn't made mistakes.  But in this case, cherry-picked news to make him somehow more culpable and feed people pablum so they'll look elsewhere and blame, is not something I'll tolerate without calling it out as misleading.  I'm very disappointed that this forum seems to have become a fount of conspiracy theory and misinformation.

When all is done and dusted, I am comfortable with Cuomo's decisions and actions taken to mitigate damage to New Yorkers.

 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/cuomo-coronavirus-nursing-home-policy-proves-tragic-goodwin/ 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flubergasted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2020 at 4:01pm

I think it was a mistake that cost a lot of lives, but I don't think he would have done it if he really understood the nursing home as an institution. Nursing homes certainly should have given pause to that decision and cautioned the governor on the realities.  I suppose nobody really wanted to say "we are good at what we do, but infectious diseases are not it." 

 Nursing homes just are not equipped for the scale of what they were asked to do.  Caring for groups of people with highly infectious diseases is a specialized task.  It requires highly trained staff in every discipline, right down to the kitchen and laundry workers, plus active supervision by people who genuinely understand infection control.  No offense to LPNs out there, but most nursing home nurses on the floor are LPNs who haven't spent much time working in hospitals, where the infection control training is more rigorous and frequently applied.  It's the difference between knowing what your supposed to do, mostly, and having a lot of experience doing it.  Many of those nurses are great at what they do, but they were asked to do something new without a lot of time to prepare for it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2020 at 5:45pm

Look Cuomo has experts on his "team" you mean to tell me that NONE OF THEM told Cuomo that putting Covid19 patients in old folks homes would kill a bunch of people.  It they did not then they are all STUPID  in NY!  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2020 at 5:58pm

Just as stupid here.  Our hospitals discharge covid patients into our care homes too.

The peak in cases has been and gone - but not in care homes, the death rate there is still rising.

So much for protecting the vulnerable.  Unofficial euthanasia anyone?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2020 at 6:06pm

I wonder if this is not euthanasia of the old around the world and the regular people like us kept in the dark.  Why else do you think all over the world old people are "being killed".  This is what it is Old People Being Killed!!!  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2020 at 7:54pm

I have a friend who works as a hospice nurse in several nursing homes in San Diego, and she told me that many of the patients who are hospitalized after testing positive are eventually brought back to the care facility if they're healthy enough. The facilities she has experience of set up makeshift negative pressure rooms, and the Covid patients were kept there. I've worked in a few of the local hospitals, and they really don't have the capacity to isolate a lot of stable patients with respiratory infections. From what she's seen, there doesn't seem to be further spread once they return, and one of the facilities was declared free of Covid-19 after caring for several positive patients, and was allowed to return the rooms to normal operation. With the appropriate precautions in place, nursing homes that have identified infected patients within their facility can cope almost as well as a hospital. The key is knowing who is infected so they can be isolated from healthy patients, and the lack of a national testing strategy in the US is making that incredibly difficult.







"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2020 at 11:09pm

Thanks Jacksdad. 

For reasons of my wife's health I have looked at the idea of a Care Home for her for when she nears the end (her progression is going very slowly so I have not needed it yet).  This is because I would want the best care for her and I realise that after a certain point I would not be able to do that by myself.   

Also, if she was near the end of her life I would prefer that she remain where she is and not be transferred to hospital - the moving of old people can be very very confusing for them.   

So in light of this it is good what Jacksdad said, that there can be as good care in these homes as hospitals if they are given the equipment.   


ps. The problem with Care Homes is a world wide problem (the UK Parliament seems to have it as a major issue now, the majority of Canadian deaths seem to have been in homes etc) - so please don't make this thread a debate for the up coming US Presidential election.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2020 at 12:55am

Keep reading tabloids and watching Fox if that's what makes you feel better about your lot.  Play the blame game and refuse to look at the real issues.  Conspiracy theories are more fun and a better diversion than this travesty.

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