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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic; Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Forum.

chloroquine WARNING

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EdwinSm, View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 24 2020 at 10:40pm


Originally posted by "BBC" "BBC" wrote:

An Arizona man has died and his wife is in a critical condition after both ingested chloroquine phosphate in an apparent effort to stave off Covid-19. 


But the toxic ingredient taken by the Phoenix couple was a chemical commonly used to clean fish tanks.

Shortly after ingestion, the couple fell ill, said Arizona-based hospital system Banner Health.

The couple were both in their 60s. 


The couple had used chloroquine previously as a treatment for their koi fish and still had some remaining in their home. This additive is formulated differently than the drug used to treat malaria.

"Just doing what Trump said" part:  


President Donald Trump has touted the medication form of chloroquine as a possible treatment for the virus.


The woman told NBC News she had seen a televised briefing in which Mr Trump discussed the potential benefits of chloroquine as a treatment Covid-19. 

The drug has been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for treating malaria, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis but is unproven for use against the novel coronavirus. 

"We saw his press conference. It was on a lot, actually," she said. "Trump kept saying it was basically pretty much a cure." 

"We were afraid of getting sick," she told NBC.  

Did they miss-hear what Trump said, or was he giving out dangerous advice, or was it a bit of both?

*edited to add link: Link to BBC report

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interwebber View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote interwebber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2020 at 10:47pm

Darwin award nominees?

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem!
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Technophobe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 8:53am

A bit of both.

Trump did jump the gun.  Chloroquine does seem to fight the virus, especially in conjunction with azithromycin and zinc, but there has not been time for a proper randomised, peer reviewed, double blind trial.  So it is occasionally used as a 'compassionate' drug.

'Compassionate' drugs are tried when the patient will die anyway under a: "It might just work" ethic.  It has not been used that much obviously - who wants to be sued?  "That drug killed my relative!"  

"No it was the virus."  

"Prove it!" 

So there is not much evidence either way yet.

Although chloroquine is actually quite promising, it does have side-effects and a very narrow dosing range.  It accumulates in cells and so with prolonged use can become toxic.  500 mg twice daily is thrown out as a general term.  But that level for longer than a week would be very toxic.  It would also quickly become toxic in conjunction with some other drugs (for instance probenacid).  Likewise it would also be more toxic in underweight people.

It is likeky that the couple who drank fish tank cleaner, did so without clear dosing, a certified product, or a check of either their bodyweight or regular drugs.  They could also have kidney or liver problems to complicate things further.

Giving your doctor permission to 'experiment' on you with the drug is a whole different ball game.  One you are more likely to win.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence. & Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
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Sheep Lady View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sheep Lady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 10:13am

This incident is a cautionary tale.  

There is something called a drug formulary...people need to check the drug ingredients they are ingesting are specifically meant for human consumption and the product contains the proper amounts cleared for use in humans. 

The drug Trump was referring to clearly was not the one these folks used.

Sheep Lady
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ViQueen24 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 10:30am

See, Sheep Lady, Techno, common sense!  Lack of it sometimes kills.

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