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Dead birds to be tested for virus Alabama

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abbie View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 09 2006 at 4:25am
   Dead birds to be tested for virus

By Alvin Benn
Montgomery Advertiser


July 9, 2006

The discovery of more than a dozen dead birds in the backyards of homes in a central Montgomery neighborhood Saturday raised concerns of possible West Nile virus or avian flu infections.

But state Health Officer Dr. Donald Williams said it did not appear from descriptions of the birds that either of the infectious diseases were involved.

However, Williamson said, "We are going to test them as quickly as possible."

"West Nile virus is endemic in Alabama, but from what I've heard, it does not appear right now that they might have been involved in the deaths of those birds," Williamson said Saturday afternoon.

Billy Houlton of 837 Sir Michael Drive said he found the dead birds when he began mowing his backyard Saturday morning. Each time he restarted or moved his mower in a different direction he found another dead bird.

By the time he stopped, he had discovered seven dead birds including five doves, a blue jay and a cardinal.

The seventh bird, a dove, was found under a dogwood bush in his front yard. Three neighbors also found dead birds in their backyards and one was found in a gutter across the street from Houlton's home.

"I don't know what killed 'em, but I'm concerned," Houlton, 66, said as he inspected the dead birds. "There's no telling how they died."

Houlton said none of his neighbors knew of anyone using pellet guns in recent days and he was unaware of any mosquito spraying in the area.

Williamson said it is possible that insecticide or pesticide spraying in recent days may have killed the birds.

He said he was concerned about the dead blue jay because, he said, "they are known to have been infected by the West Nile Virus."

"We certainly need to test them all," Williamson said.
"It is important for people who find dead birds not to touch them with their hands. They should be handled with gloves or a shovel."

Williamson said it appeared that none of the dead birds had been infected by avian influenza or bird flu, an infection caused by bird viruses. According to the Web site of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, wild birds worldwide carry the viruses in their intestines, but usually do not get sick from them.

There have been human cases of bird flu reported in Asia and parts of Europe and Africa, but none in the United States, according to the CDC.

"The blue jay may or may not be West Nile, but it is the right species," Williamson said. "We'll certainly be happy to test the blue jay and possibly the others as well.

The mosquito-borne West Nile virus has been identified in more than 200 species of birds found dead in the United States.

Houlton said Saturday afternoon that he put the birds in plastic bags, placed them in a Styrofoam cooler and covered them with ice. He said he was not going to put the dead birds in the freezer of his refrigerator.

Houlton said he has been told that the state Department of Agriculture and Industries will take possession of the dead birds, possibly on Monday, and examine them.
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060709/NEWS01/607090316/1007


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 4:29am
I am not posting this to insinuate that this is BF, but because some place is finally testing dead birds in the US. I have read many posts on here that a lot of these dead bird cases are being ignored by officials.

I thought it was interesting reading for many of us. I didn't post this to frighten anyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote macrimmons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 4:40am
Originally posted by abbie abbie wrote:

I am not posting this to insinuate that this is BF, but because some place is finally testing dead birds in the US. I have read many posts on here that a lot of these dead bird cases are being ignored by officials.

I thought it was interesting reading for many of us. I didn't post this to frighten anyone.
 
Thanks for posting this Abbie. I also read the report and it raised an eyebrow. Reminds me of the 4 dead birds I found in my yard 2 months ago. Not as many, but worrisome nonetheless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 4:44am
What kind of birds did you find dead? I was concerned when I read this because we have all of these in our backyard and I take precautions to continue feeding them against hubby's advice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 6:09am
What is disturbing is the focus on West Nile Virus versus Avian. I have stood next to a person with West Nile virus and was not infected. She was actually bragging in a store and laughing about the fact, of all things, she had tested positive. Not sure if this was a mixture of hysteria but she was an older lady and actually underplayed it quite a bit.

Science wise, in many cases the local health departments are equpped and ready to test for WVN, but not for Avian. I think many people are becoming very sensitized to dead birds. It is when you see a large number of dead birds, or birds acting strangely, then one might be a little more careful.

Remember (the voice of reason) there are what I call McDonald birds, or boardwalk birds, which have learned that people feed them and have almost no fear of humans.

Birds with Avian, can have some classic visual signs and symptoms which you can find other places on the forum. We are going to have no problem identifying serious Avian outbreaks when they hit. The birds will die by the thousands and there will be dead birds everywhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 6:26am
Williamson said it appeared that none of the dead birds had been infected by avian influenza or bird flu, an infection caused by bird viruses. According to the Web site of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, wild birds worldwide carry the viruses in their intestines, but usually do not get sick from them.
 
Now how could someone infer this just from looking at dead birds. They need to be tested and even if positive we will likely never know the true results. Just watch the news reports for Alabama stockpiling tamiflu and making contingency plans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doabirds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 6:31am
    I sure hope he keeps one himself and has the means to have it tested independently. Probably West nile or poisoning. Does anyone know if bird flu virus can be transmitted by mosquito? That would be a nightmare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 6:42am
PonyGirl,
I'm wondering the same thing; what does a dead bird that died from bf look like? For that matter what does one that died from west nile look like?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 7:25am
Originally posted by rodin33 rodin33 wrote:

PonyGirl,
I'm wondering the same thing; what does a dead bird that died from bf look like? For that matter what does one that died from west nile look like?


Excellent quesstion!   A dead bird that has died from either looks VERY DEAD as opposed to just a little dead.  The ignorance of the official is appalling.

H5N1 is a cross species killer.  It kills any and all species of animals.  Any of the other "normal" bird flus does not do this and the statement that it resides in the intestines and usually does not kill is valid. 

Unfortunately, we are not dealing with "normal flu" here. (If, indeed, it is H5N1, which I suspect and have suspected for months now.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 10:40am
Peoples, I live here in Alabama and they had stopped testing because just weeks ago my friend called the health department about birds in her front yard. She was told they did not test them anymore because they knew we had West Nile. So, I wonder what changed? But it may be chemical polutions too. That happened near me once about 7 years ago.
We will see.
Good luck to all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jhetta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 11:14am
???  How many of you are familiar with the survillance guidelines set up for H5N1 in your area.  Do you know what to do if you find dead birds?
 
I looked into it in my area and found the following.  I also contacted the agencies in my area and talked to them for roughly 2 hours to find out more information. I contacted wetlands in my area and gave them the following info... I also passed it to my neighbors and posted it on:


http://www.pandemichelp.org/
 
 
Here is what I found
 
San Diego County H5N1 Info~ Testing, Contact Info    
 
Guidelines for Handling Wild Birds With Rf to H5N1
http://www.pandemichelp.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=832
 
Guidance for Testing Suspected H5N1 Virus in US
http://www.pandemichelp.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=720
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 1:44pm

If they are waiting until Monday to pick the dead birds up even with them on ice I doubt they will still be any good for testing, that aside, I am betting it is West Nile Virus since they are all song birds, if they were waterfowl I would be quite worried.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 2:35pm
It is the Alabama Department of Agriculture that is having the birds tested. I think this is part of the new program to check for bf.
We have so much West Nile Virus here the Health Department (who use to test) does not do that anymore!
It is not uncommon to find blue jays dead anywhere and several at a time. But I live 100 miles from Montgomery and have never found a dead dove or a red bird for that matter. There are a good many new manufacturing plants going up because of increase in industry and about 7 years ago we had a large die off of birds like that, which was traced to toxic omissions from such a plant. Once the problem was found however it was corrected!
Good luck to all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gimme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by rodin33 rodin33 wrote:

PonyGirl,
I'm wondering the same thing; what does a dead bird that died from bf look like? For that matter what does one that died from west nile look like?
 
 
I was curious too.
 
 
Birds generally don't have symptoms of  West Nile until the final stage, when the virus has caused encephalitis, or inflammation of the brain. These birds tend to look drowsy or "drunk" - they are unable to fly, walk properly, or sometimes even stand upright. If you find a bird in this state, it may have West Nile or it may have another illness or a head injury. Call a nature center, wildlife rehabilitation center, or veterinarian in your area and describe the bird's symptoms. They will advise you on whether they will treat the bird and  can give an idea of the costs involved (some non-profit wildlife rehab centers will accept animals at no cost or for a small donation, but most vets will charge you for their services). They will also give instructions on capturing and transporting the bird.
~~~

 vs. H5 birds HP and LP

reads in part:
 

Birds with HPAI show one or more of the following signs:

  • Sudden death without clinical signs
  • Lack of energy and appetite
  • Decreased or no egg production
  • Soft–shelled or misshapen eggs
  • Swelling of the head, eyelids, comb, wattles, and hocks
  • Purple discoloration of the wattles, combs, and legs
  • Nasal discharge
  • Coughing, sneezing
  • Incoordination
  • Diarrhea

~~~~!

(In the HP birds, I read that 90% of them die.)
 

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cygnet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 9:01pm
    High path AI causes pinpoint haemorrages (I know I spelled that wrong) and other internal damage in birds. This is fairly obvious on a basic necropsy on a freshly dead bird.

I'm betting this is a case of poisoning. All of these birds are seed eaters and it's very easy to kill them unintentionally when putting poisoned grain out for rodents, like gophers.

Leva
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pegasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 9:13pm
As of June 26 the 'official' word I received from the Department of Agriculture in Pennsylvania was that any group of 5+ dead (Mainly migratory) birds in the same location would trigger an Avian Flu investigation.  Fewer than 5 dead birds (mainly local birds -such as crows, blue jays, cormorants) in a location/vicinity would trigger West Nile Virus testing first. 
     "We do not know the true value of moments until they have undergone the test of memory."   unknown author
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by Gimme Gimme wrote:

Originally posted by rodin33 rodin33 wrote:

PonyGirl,
I'm wondering the same thing; what does a dead bird that died from bf look like? For that matter what does one that died from west nile look like?
 
 
I was curious too.
 
 
Birds generally don't have symptoms of  West Nile until the final stage, when the virus has caused encephalitis, or inflammation of the brain. These birds tend to look drowsy or "drunk" - they are unable to fly, walk properly, or sometimes even stand upright. If you find a bird in this state, it may have West Nile or it may have another illness or a head injury. Call a nature center, wildlife rehabilitation center, or veterinarian in your area and describe the bird's symptoms. They will advise you on whether they will treat the bird and  can give an idea of the costs involved (some non-profit wildlife rehab centers will accept animals at no cost or for a small donation, but most vets will charge you for their services). They will also give instructions on capturing and transporting the bird.
~

 

 


Ironically, the exact same symptoms are characteristic of H5N1 HP infection in birds.  As Dr. Niman pointed out, they walk funny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gimme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 10:34pm
JoeNeubarth
"Ironically, the exact same symptoms are characteristic of H5N1 HP infection in birds.  As Dr. Niman pointed out, they walk funny."
 
~~~~
 
Yup, if they're not dead, they're walking funny.  What is disturbing is the vaccination program for the birds... Read that sometimes the symptoms are delayed so people think they are buying healthy poultry.
 
I suppose we could skip the tests and stick a swan in our yards. 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by Gimme Gimme wrote:

~~~~ 
I suppose we could skip the tests and stick a swan in our yards.  


A swan would be more truthful than government.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jhetta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 11:02pm
Originally posted by Pegasus Pegasus wrote:

As of June 26 the 'official' word I received from the Department of Agriculture in Pennsylvania was that any group of 5+ dead (Mainly migratory) birds in the same location would trigger an Avian Flu investigation.  Fewer than 5 dead birds (mainly local birds -such as crows, blue jays, cormorants) in a location/vicinity would trigger West Nile Virus testing first. 
 
Thank you Pegasus... that is useful information!
 
Thanks for calling them to verify the criteria they will use for testing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 11:09pm
I don't know if this is important in your considerations but having seen a lot of dead birds from West Nile I can tell you I have never seen one sick or acting strange. I think it must kill faster. I have only found them dead on the ground not sickly. I think I would be more leary of finding a sick bird. I found my dog eating a dead bird a couple of years ago and in a panic I called the State Vet and was told "dogs can't get West Nile". He said that had been tested so not to worry. Maybe if they figured out why they can't perhaps they could find a cure for that? 
Good luck to all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gimme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2006 at 10:40am
Originally posted by JoeNeubarth JoeNeubarth wrote:

Originally posted by Gimme Gimme wrote:

~~~~ 
I suppose we could skip the tests and stick a swan in our yards.  


A swan would be more truthful than government.
 
Well unless they die immediately from West Nile. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2006 at 11:14am
Originally posted by Gimme Gimme wrote:

Originally posted by JoeNeubarth JoeNeubarth wrote:

Originally posted by Gimme Gimme wrote:

~~~~ 
I suppose we could skip the tests and stick a swan in our yards.  


A swan would be more truthful than government.
 
Well unless they die immediately from West Nile. 
 
 
 
Or, ABBF...
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