| PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL |
| 123456 |
| Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Dead Crows & Potential Avian Flu |
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Peaches 
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Joined: March 19 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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 Posted: March 21 2006 at 5:23pm |
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WTG, Kathy. Thank you for sharing this most important knowledge with all. I wish I had a property as wonderful as what you get to witness everyday. : ) I will keep a sharp eye out here in my So. Cal yard like a hawk. (no pun intended).
 Peaches |
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Terri
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 7:45pm |
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Have you considered sharing this information with local the local or national news- say Anderson Cooper types?
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 7:58pm |
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Whew...I live in Washington State and was getting very nervous reading Kathy's posts and the replies.. I cannot believe she is getting the run around. At the same time, I am very glad that Washington will test for H5N1..thank goodness. I hope that she finds some resolve soon. This could be very important to us all. Hang in there Kathy...and good luck, too.
Peace.
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kathylynndean
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Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 9:00pm |
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Kirby, thanks for the offer, but I think I will stay here in the West for the time being.
BlueSky, that is great to know that at least one state has their $%^& together. DrPepper...LOL! Peaches, thanks so much and Terri, I have sent this story (modified postings) to every media organization around. The final answer is below Sylvia's assinine reply. My crows WILL BE TESTED. I have to pay $35.00 per bird, but big deal. I left my letter to Sylvia vague on purpose. Let her dig around for the names of people! But Dr. Heidel actually discussed "my case" with the Feds since I think it is the first official test. They studied all my info, and gave the big YES nod. Sorry about the length, but everything is below:
From: Kathy L. Dean [mailto:kathylynndean@MYDOMAIN.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:43 PM To: 'Sylvia Mireles' Cc: 'Arlene Warren'; 'CATHERINE METZ' Subject: Final AI Answer is Obtained...See Below First E-mail... Importance: High The Manager of Josephine County Public Health, Sylvia Mireles, stated: -----Original Message----- Cc: Arlene Warren; CATHERINE METZ
Subject: Re: Potential Bird Flu... Hi Kathy, Pardon again, that we couldnt get back to you sooner. I have checked with the Oregon dept that regulates wildlife and water fowl in regards to avian flu. I understand from them that all necessary precautions are being taken to monitor the avian flu. As of date there are no indications that avian flu is present in the continental U.S. or in the northern continent. Again, currently monitoring and surveillance is being conducted through the US Fish and Wildlife agency. Kathy L. Dean replied: 
Dear Sylvia, The Oregon AI representative phoned me this afternoon after discussing my situation with other knowledgeable doctors, and they concluded that the crows I have DO NEED to be tested for Avian Influenza. I have to either ship or drive the crows to the Corvalis, Oregon lab for the AI testing, which is $35.00 per bird. I was very glad to finally find out that wild birds and crows are being tested in Oregon per the Federal Government mandated program. Please refer to "An Early Detection System for Highly Pathogenic H5N1 Avian Influenza in Wild Migratory Birds - U.S. Interagency Strategic Plan" finalized and released on 03-14-06.
I, more than anyone, hope it is not AI, because I love my animals, and I realize what the outcome will be if the crows test positive. But, unlike you, I have led my life to err on the side of caution rather than take risks with something as important to Josephine County as this is. For the good of the community and the tax-payer's of this county, please bring yourself up to speed with what is going on. That was one of the reasons I got so upset yesterday. A person in your position, a "Manager", should know the facts surrounding a topic that has been in the news for years. It should not be up to citizens, such as me, to do the legwork. The memo that you will be receiving from the office of the Oregon State Health Division is also wrong in the information it contains. It was finalized yesterday, 03-20-06, and, according to Dr. William E. Keene, will be sent to all Oregon counties via US Mail. It was written by Dr. Bredoski (sp?) and today I found out that it contains some erroneous information. The "US Fish and Wildlife Agency" is not monitoring Oregon's program. They are there, along with the "Flyway Councils" to assist and collaborate with each state if need be. Each state has its own representative and lab for testing. The Federal Government has mandated that we test wild birds for Avian Flu, but they are not monitoring and doing our initial surveillance work. In their own words, and please correct me, Working Group Members, if I am wrong: "Therefore, the planning and execution of local and regional highly pathogenic H5N1 avian influenza early detection efforts will best be accomplished by the States in collaboration with Federal agencies". Downstream at some point, after data collection by the states: "Centralized coordination will evaluate the effectiveness of state and regional efforts, allowing for prioritization of available federal resources. Surveillance data from all of these systems will be incorporated into national risk assessments, and preparedness and response planning efforts."
Each state will also be responsible for hunted birds; it will not be left to the Federal Government: I"Collection of samples from these species will occur at hunter check stations in the lower 48 states during hunting seasons in areas where these birds stage during migration or over-wintering". After state monitoring of live and hunter killed birds, the info will be fed into the following: The National Biological Information Infrastructure Wildlife Disease Information Node (WDIN) managed by the U.S. Geological Survey’s Other State collection data will eventually be fed into: Sentinel bird data will be incorporated into a web-enabled, national data management system for backyard and small-flock poultry developed by the USDA APHIS Veterinary Services’ Application Information Management Team at the Centers for Epidemiology and Animal Health. Each state will develop its plans and methods, following the guidelines set out by the Federal Government. It will all come together, and be helped by the following means: The Flyway Councils, established through the International Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies (IAFWA), also assist in researching and providing management techniques for Federal, State, and Provincial Governments, as well as private groups and the public.
In the end, summaries, reports, communication, implementation and data analysis, etc. will be accomplished via:
It is recommended that a Steering Committee, consisting of one representative each from USGS, FWS, USDA APHIS, IAFWA, HHS, the National Flyway Council, and the State of It is a bit too early in the year for West Nile Virus, and if my pond had a high degree of salmonella, I would have a lot more dead animals than just three crows. The crows that visit my property daily do so in flock, and drink from the same source. If they flock tightly together on my property, I assume they do on other land also. I recognize many of the same birds daily by size, markings, limps and other features. There is one crow that comes in via flock in the AM, and stays all day near my ducks. It takes off with the flock in the PM. NOTE: Now please answer the important question I asked you this afternoon. I did not handle these birds properly. There were over 100 deaths recently thought to be transmitted via swan feathers. I want to know where I should go to get vaccinated. I would rather be safe than sorry. For the second time, please answer my question. Thank you, Kathy L. Dean |
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 Kathy L. Dean quotes: "An Opinion, Like An Axe, Is Only As Good As The Person Who Wields It." -- Gölök Buday |
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Peaches
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Joined: March 19 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 9:56pm |
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 Wow Kathy,
I hope Sylvia appreciates what an asset you've been to all of us and now to her, lol.
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kathylynndean
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Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 11:14pm |
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Oh Peaches, you are too funny! I just wish I could see her face when she reads that tomorrow morning when she gets in the office. Where in the world did she get that stuff? Even if I knew absolutely nothing about the whole situation, I know that Federal Government run organizations, other than for instance the BLM that "oversees land owned by the Govt", do not control State programs! She actually wanted me to believe that the Feds were going to come in here and monitor and check for dead birds. More than that, she wanted me to believe that was going to happen in all 50 states. That would be a nice little budget jump for Bush. Does she really believe that, or was she told by someone to tell me that? If she really believes it, then she totally misunderstood whoever she was talking to. I think I have talked to just about every single bird related organization in OR in the past two days, and I sure never heard that whopper of a story! Something is really wrong here, if you know what I mean. I know the county is goofy. The sheriff sent out a SWAT team 2 years ago to arrest my ex-husband for picking up a chicken that he thought was abandoned at Ray's Market. It was a false arrest, and the new DA dropped all charges, but the trauma to us was terrible. This county is small, and they know my name due to the Chicken Caper, and they know I am not stupid. In fact, the SPCA and Health Department had told us to hang onto the chicken!!! Geez, this place is just nuts. I lived in CA my whole life until 2000 when we moved up here. Silicon Valley had a lot of traffic, but at least the people had brains....
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Kathy L. Dean quotes: "An Opinion, Like An Axe, Is Only As Good As The Person Who Wields It." -- Gölök Buday |
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Posted: March 21 2006 at 11:25pm |
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 5:29am |
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Nature Notes: Fish crows are moving farther away from water
news@theadvertiser.com 11:40 a.m. March 6 "I'm marveling at a large congregation of fish crows that are frolicking in a stiff southerly breeze here around the Cajun Field parking area along Bertrand Drive in Lafayette. There looks to be 600 to 800 birds involved, which is impressive for this species and for this heavily urbanized locale, relatively far removed from significant water. As with the American crow, fish crow numbers seem to have grown during the past 30 years. Historically, fish crows were coastal zone specialists, but they've been steadily moving inland, especially along larger streams. Thinking back, I can remember only two occasions when I've seen larger fish crow flocks. One was around the Interstate 10 high rise in New Orleans East. That was a post-breeding, midsummer group of about 1,000. Then, there was a winter-roosting flock that George Broussard and I encountered around the Vatican community in north Lafayette Parish during a Lafayette Christmas bird count several years ago. Interestingly, that flock had settled onto the ground in a rather smallish pasture. I remember we quit counting at about 1,200, with more birds piling in as we departed. The fish crow is primarily a bird of the Atlantic and Gulf coastal states, ranging from Rhode Island southward through Florida and then westward to extreme southeastern Texas. Over time, it has moved inland up the Red River valley to eastern Oklahoma, and up the Mississippi River valley as far north as southern Illinois. How the fish crow came about its common name seems a bit mysterious. Yes, fish crows seem to appreciate river valleys; but no, fish crows do not primarily subsist on fish. In fact, gut analysis studies on Florida fish crows revealed greenbrier (Smilax spp.) berries to be its primary food. Keep in mind that crows of all species are notoriously omnivorous, consuming both wild and cultivated grains and fruits, invertebrates, small vertebrates, carrion and refuse. So how did the fish crow manage to expand its range at a time when that of so many other birds is contracting? The probable answer is that fish crows, like American crows, have learned to extract a substantial living from Dumpsters, parking lots and landfills. Call it the "french fry circuit." Other notable players include ring-billed and laughing gulls, common and great-tailed grackles and house sparrows. Compared to American crows, fish crows are slightly smaller, slimmer and possess proportionately shorter legs and longer tails; but to the casual observer, fish crows are visually indistinguishable from American crows in the field. Moreover, the two species often mix in all of the various habitats in which they are found - farms, towns, lakes, rivers - so telling them apart can present quite a challenge. Fortunately, the two species are easily distinguishable by voice. Compared to the raucous, throaty, "Caw! Caw!" of the American crow, the fish crow utters a much less emphatic, notably nasal, "cahr, cahr" or sometimes, "ah-unh." One of the best local places to view and study fish crows is at the celebrated wading bird rookery at Lake Martin, just south of Breaux Bridge. There, we've been watching the fish crow population expand in apparent correlation with the expansion of nesting wading birds, such as herons, egrets, roseate spoonbill and anhinga, during the past 15 to 20 years. Crows, and jays, you see, also are opportunistic nest-robbers, preying on eggs and/or nestlings of many bird species, including wading birds. (Bill Fontenot can be reached at the Nature Station at 291-8448.) Originally published March 19, 2006 http://www.theadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060319/COLUMNISTS04/603190361/1002/NEWS01 |
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Kirby
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Joined: March 02 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 129 |
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 6:00am |
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Way to go, Kathy!
Can I send my two birds to you? I'll pay to have then tested and if they test positive, we can say that we are certain they "migrated" from South Carolina!!!!
(Just kidding, of course!) |
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RicheeRich
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 6:02am |
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Does it seem to anyone else beside me that....
COLLECTIVELY, WE ARE PROBABLY THE FOREMOST EXPERTS AVAILABLE ON AVIAN INFLUENZA.
Now, how scary is that !!!!!
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Kirby
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Joined: March 02 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 129 |
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 6:21am |
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Yes, it has and it is frustrating, yet, comforting that we can communicate with one another and have the insight to help one another more than the info we are receiving from the officials.
If you were to know the true identify of some of the folks on this forum, you would probably be surprised by who is actually posting/reading information right here.
Are you sure your name isn't Michael or George, Richee? LOL
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Kelly
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 7:51am |
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I have often wondered who might just be watching and reading, as well. Hey, if it helps all of us to be more safe..I say go for it..and read on. We are more than willing to oblige. Now, it's their turn.
I only ask that you share information...what we know, and what you now know, also..with others, spread the word..alert the nation and the world...and don't leave them (or us) in the dark. Tell them to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Do it now.
Thanks for listening. Peace.
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kathylynndean
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Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 9:54am |
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I just received a call form the "Josephine County Health Department Head Nurse." She kept trying to get strange information from me that was not related to the case at hand, so I offered to send her the e-mail I posted that I sent to Sylvia, all Committe Members, and the press via Bcc: I did NOT tell her that hundreds of people now know that their office is full of %^&*.
I believe her name was Cynthia Metz, but her e-mail is:
cmetz@co.josephine.or.us
Just like the rest of Oregon, she did not have a clue what was going on, but I jet her ramble on anyway. I asked her who was Sylvia's boss, and it turns out the Sylvia is the boss for the whole County Health Department.
I at last told her I didn't want to hear anything more about the crows, I wanted to discuss my health risks. I explained to her I had handled potentially infedted birds.
She stated that the key word was "potential" and nothing could be done until there was positive proof. I told her that was a bunch of bull, and I wanted to know if there was a flu shot I could take.
She said absolutely not, that no vaccine has been developed. I tested her knowledge by asking it there was "something" I could take other than a vaccine. She said that "they" were working on it, but as of 03-22-06, there was absolutely nothing.
She went on to tell me that all people in Oregon and the US would have to work through their private physician, and who was mine. I did not tell her.
She stated that my physician would have to run tests, and when the results came back, they would then decide if any medicine for me would be necessary.
I told her that if there was absolutely no medicine available, why was she saying I should be tested by my private doctor?
She said that was the way the Government had things set up.
She went on to state that there has never been any known case of transmission of bird flue to any other species, and at that point I lost it!
I told her to quit telling me this garbage, and that she had better find out what is happening in the real world. I told her that their department was useless, etc. I asked for her full name, and she refused to give it to me. Thank goodness I had already asked for her e-mail. She then hung up on me.
I did not really "lose it" with her, but I felt like yelling at someone and she was handy. In fact, throughout this whole ordeal, I have never been upset and mad, only disguisted. And I am REALLY disguisted at the moment.
It was apparent she was just making up things as I asked each question. because she did not have a clue what the answer was....
Feel free to e-mail her....
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Kathy L. Dean quotes: "An Opinion, Like An Axe, Is Only As Good As The Person Who Wields It." -- Gölök Buday |
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 9:55am |
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I wonder what it is going to take to get the truth out of Gov't, this fiasco is disgusting and should have never happened, someone is not on the ball all this passing the buck is terrible.
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 10:06am |
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You should send all of your postings to Anderson Cooper 360 on CNN. He loves to report on the government not doing anything.
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kathylynndean
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Joined: March 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 10:06am |
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Since I am using this site to document all conversations of any importance, the number on my caller ID for the head nurse is 541 479-5220 and the call came in at 9:04 Pacific time on 03-22-06.
Oregon State University's number on my caller ID is 541 737--6964 and the call came in on 03-21-03 at 2:41PM.
That was the call by the head doctor, Dr. Jerry Heidel, person in charge of testing in Oregon. He told me to bring the birds to Corvallis for h5n1 testing.
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Kathy L. Dean quotes: "An Opinion, Like An Axe, Is Only As Good As The Person Who Wields It." -- Gölök Buday |
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kathylynndean
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 10:26am |
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Kirby, I forgot to ask you something. How much did they tell you that you would have to pay for your crow and sparrow to be tested? Was it a lot more than the $35.00 per bird that I was quoted? I get a "Google Alert" every day with the latest Avian flu news. I read in one of the articles out of Europe that a new, very cheap test has been developed.
And, yes, it is very unsettling to think that "we" know more than the people that run our State's systems...
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Kathy L. Dean quotes: "An Opinion, Like An Axe, Is Only As Good As The Person Who Wields It." -- Gölök Buday |
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Kirby
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 10:38am |
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Clemson didn't tell me how much it would cost and I didn't think to ask since I felt the government should be interested and responsible enough to be doing so.
Now, the scary part is it's a good thing that I am educated in infection control and pretty danged informed on BF. Because if I wasn't, you would be seeing one mama in a panic since I hauled that danged dead sparrow around in my CAR to the health dept. who rejected it and 3 days later, my
teenager (who had a flu shot!) now has the flu and was started on Tamiflu, today, by his physician.
I didn't tell the MD about the bird - we are seeing alot of flu, even in folks who had the vaccine. The kid never came in direct contact with the bird but if I get sick or if HE had handled the bird, I would really be getting concerned!
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 10:59am |
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Well, I did it! I've contacted CNN, (Anderson & Dr. Gupta) about the run around Kathy is getting. Lets see what happens from here! |
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gricha56
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 11:04am |
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I have personally investigated a number of bird kills. One on a Navy base instigated by my Commanding Officer caused me to work eighty hour weeks for months on end to attempt to find the reason why wild geese and ducks had died on the base. Close to a hundred thousand dollars was spent to find an answer. To this day, I know more about what didn't kill them then what did. The investigation ended when the Commanding Officer retired, and a new CO took his place. He noticed that the lake where the bird kill took place was presently filled with geese and ducks and correctly concluded that an exhaustive investigation was not warrented. I told you that story to tell you this one. Birds die from any number of reasons. For the most part, your government would be wasting money and personnel resources to investigate these killls. By handling the remains of birds you can expose yourself to a number of pretty nasty germs. You obviously have considered that possibility by wearing gloves. But West Nile Virsus is nothing to ignore. It is quite a nasty and often fatal hemorrhagic fever. Be extremely careful!!! You might also pause to consider that the public health officials that you have roundly criticized might be pretty busy drinking coffee and planning their retirements.
 But they might also be busy inspecting the restuarants and public swimming pools in your community. Maybe giving a few of those vaccinations that you have asked for. I know they have oversight of your wells and public water systems. One more thought. There is no vaccine for West Nile Fever. No vaccine for Influenza A H5N1. I would advise you to minimize the handling of those remains. You have my admiration for demanding a response from your government. It does take a bit of effort to get the government to recognize the problem. I would point to the emergence of HIV in the eighties as an example of how the government was slow to act initially. But those are the guys that will be on the front lines when it does emerge. The rest of us can watch from our bunkers!
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kathylynndean
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 11:18am |
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Oh my goodness. A call just came in from Dr. Collin Gillin, the head Oregon State Wildlife Vet at 10:11 AM on 03-22-06. His phone number at his office, and his from his car, where he phoned me from, is 541 231-9271.
He said that "Dead birds are all over the place" and people are "always phoning him about dead birds."
He went on to say that "I had nothing to worry about, and that the h5n1 virus will not show up in the USA until much later in the year" and "crows will not be carrying it, poulty will."
He stated that "Alaska is where the first indication of h5n1 will appear" and "that won't be until fall."
He stated that "all they would test my crows for would be WNV, but that this is not the time of year for WNV."
I then told him the decission had been made to test my birds for h5n1, and I think I heard some tire screaching; he must have started to drive off the road.
He told me it was "One in one billion chance that my crows would test positive" and I told him "I hoped that was the truth because I do not want to lose my ducks and geese and wild turkeys that visit."
He asked why I would lose my ducks and geese, and I then asked him: "Don't they collect the birds from a site of contamination?"
He said "Absolutely not and you have nothing to worry about."
I repeated my question, because I realize my pond water would be contaminated if the crows did test positive, and he again repeated that "they would never take a person's animals away from them or kill them."
He told me that "crows will not be carrying h5n1" and I misunderstood him, and I said: "I realize that it coud mutate, but lets hope to God that does not happen."
He corrected me and said that: "crows do not have h5ni, but all of my ducks and the two geese do have it naturally in their system."
I told him that in my brief study (two days???) of this, I realize that waterfowl and poultry do carry the virus naturally, but "Crows have been a precursor in several countries."
He stated: "That is what the media reported, but it isn't true, and they were a different sort of crow."
I told him that "I did not care about sub-species, I was talking about the genus Corvus and the Corvidae family."
He then said "that the crows in the other countries were Red Crows, so did not apply in this case."
He said "It would not be a few birds, it would be a massive amount of birds" and I explained to him that "all land around me is covered with up to half a foot of leaves. My 6 acres is raked of all leaves, and that is the only reason I saw the crows. I am sure that the properties around me also have dead crows, but you can not see them due to the leaf cover."
NOTE: I was trying to convey to him that I realize that dead birds are not going to just drop on my property, but my property is the only one around here that is NOT covered by a thick bed of leaves!
He works at the university in Corvallis, the same place I have to take my crows.
He then lost his car phone signal, which was not too good to begin with...
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Kathy L. Dean quotes: "An Opinion, Like An Axe, Is Only As Good As The Person Who Wields It." -- Gölök Buday |
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 11:24am |
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Too funny!!! Gutzy!!! The post from the navy person, I believe was also admirable.
I think the government is very reluctant to rush into this as they do not want to cause a panic without good reason.
Look back in history, the shooting of JFK, when Princess Di was killed. They were already dead when they(the media) had announced that they are in critical condition,... thus easing the public into what had happened.
With all of this too, there is an element that none of us really want to believe that this is happening. Including the lady on the phone handling the dead bird calls.
I know that when I mention what I am doing to friends I always point them to here:
I think we need to be patient as people come to the realization on their own. We have to have faith in ourselves and then our government.
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kathylynndean
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 11:41am |
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MOSCOW, March 21 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's chief doctor said Tuesday that strict veterinary control should be imposed on Russian cities to prevent the spread of bird flu. "First of all, we need to impose the strictest hygiene controls when the snow melts, [as] then dirty birds will leave cities," Gennady Onishchenko said. With the lethal virus having already been registered in Europe, Onishchenko said crows and rooks posed the main threat in the cities because they are the most vulnerable species to the disease. He said last week that crows were "feathered wolves and should be exterminated mercilessly." In February 2006, a wave of bird flu hit nine regions in Russia and has killed over a million birds. Inoculation of birds has since begun in the affected regions and no human cases have been registered in the country. The above came out of Russia yesterday, and I realize it is a bit "over the top." But also realize that all infected birds, according to our Government, will also be coming from Russia, across the Aleutian Islands and into Alaska..... |
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Kathy L. Dean quotes: "An Opinion, Like An Axe, Is Only As Good As The Person Who Wields It." -- Gölök Buday |
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Kirby
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 11:46am |
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Wenmalon:
I posted a whole statement then deleted it. Sometimes you just have to surrender. Comes with having teenagers.
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Mahshadin
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 11:46am |
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Kathy I just finished reading all of your threads. Your tenacity is inspiring and I applaud your efforts to get to the facts.
I just read another story from Oregon about bird die offs which is creepy.
Tuesday, March 21, 2006
The Associated Press Hundreds of the seabirds known as rhinoceros auklets have washed up on the Southern Oregon coast, and scientists haven't settled on an explanation for the die-off. The birds seem to be in good shape off California and Washington, a researcher said. "The questions in my mind are: Is this something that's widespread in Oregon? Is it a freak event like a storm or something that's going to last longer?" said seabird researcher Dr. Julia Parrish, an associate professor of biology at the University of Washington. |
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"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." G Orwell
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 12:07pm |
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Kirby:
It came in my email and it was brilliant. Do you want me to copy and paste it and post it? What you said is very true.
Wendy
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Fiddlerdave
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 1:00pm |
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Well, there's certainly no point in testing the Auklets for BF! There's NO BF HERE!
 (This closed eye emoticon probably will be pretty useful for a while!)
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Dave
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for us"! |
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kathylynndean
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 1:05pm |
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I read that article in yesterday's paper, and reread it about three times to make sure I had not missed something, re: Avian Influenza testing!!! The actual article was quite long, and not one word about Bird Flu.
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Mahshadin
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 1:06pm |
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"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." G Orwell
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Breeze26
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 2:22pm |
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I find it amusing that so many "knowledgable" people in office tell us that "bird flu is not in crows" or "bird flu is not in the US" If they are not willing to test the birds how exactly is the US supposed to know when it hits here. I myself know that if I found dead birds in my yard I wouldn't/couldn't afford to pay for the testing.
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Kirby
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 2:26pm |
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Oops, Wendy? I don't know how I sent that to your email! I tend to type what I think and then wonder if it is the right thing to put out for public viewing. LOL I also worry when ordering PPE off ebay that Homeland Security is going to come knocking on my door looking for anthrax, etc.
It frustrates me that everyone thinks "it can't happen here".
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kathylynndean
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 2:38pm |
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I have a headache, my stomach is hurting, and I am beginning to get the sniffles! the ODFW (Oregon Dept of Fish and Wildlife) are offering to ship my crows to Corvallis, saving me a four or five hour drive each way. But, I am not sure I trust them now. Dr. Collin Gillin phoned back (541 231-9271 at 11:45AM on 03-22-06) and told me to ship the birds to him, and I said no. I explained to him that each state in the US has a designated person that the birds go to. He started rattling off names to me, and I didn't recognize any, and I couldn't remember Dr. Jerry Heidels name! Honest! I was outside and not in my office. At last Gillin came up with Heidel's name, and I said yes, that is the person. Gillin has changed his story since earlier today, and now says that he tests all the time for H5N1. So I asked if any crows had been tested recently, and he said he didn't know. But later on, he told me that all testing done at the University goes through him, and my crow would end up with him, too. He told me that he had or would contact Mike Vargas at ODFW and tell them that I would be bringing down the crows within a day or two.I went from no attention to too much attention in the past 24 hours, and am now getting a bit paranoid about my dead crows! If I give them to the ODFW which is located in a town very near to me, (White City) I am worried that they will either disappear, or end up with Gillin instead of Heidel.
If you want to see where the testing will be done, go to
and click on the "Diagnostic Lab" section. I couldn't find anything about h5n1 testing. Nada. Zip.
I am starting to think Oregon is hiding something...
Have to go blow my nose and take some Tylenol...
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Kirby
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 3:13pm |
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Give them three and leave one in the freezer for future reference??
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Fruit Loop
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 3:20pm |
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Hang in there Kathy- You'll know when the time comes what to do......
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Posted: March 22 2006 at 5:58pm |
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I don't blame you for not trusting them. They out-right lied to you previously. It is very worrisome...all these cases of bird die offs in Oregon..and not one word about what is causing it, no follow up. ????
Good luck, Kathy..and thank you for being so willful about this.. If all people are as observant and persistant as you have been..we might just make it through this thing. Thank you. Hang in there and good luck.
Peace. :-)
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Posted: March 23 2006 at 8:57am |
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This looks like a nation wide plan to obfuscate any legitimate research that would confirm Bird Flu in the US. Last year here in San Diego, about 90 percent of the sea gulls disappeared in the downtown area of the city where I work. I called this to the attention of public health and told them of my concern that H5N1 could easily cross the ocean on the wings of sea birds following cargo ships. I was told that there is no federal or state program to test for H5N1 in birds in San Diego. There was a program to test for West Nile but that was located up in the mountains and would not be testing sea gulls. They only test for West Nile and do not test for Bird Flu. Absolutely nobody was concerned in city government or in the various health departments! I wrote to the newspapers about this insane oversight, and they refused to post even a fraction of my letter. They have published many of my letters in the past on every other subject, but refuse to cover the potential for Bird Flu. Is there a coverup? Darned if I know, but I sure am sure suspicious. The dishonesty of all government has been highlighted by this Bird Flu spread. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=100703 Dead Crows in Tel Aviv, Not Infected With Bird Flu 22:00 Mar 23, '06 / 23 Adar 5766 (IsraelNN.com) The Agriculture Ministry tested carcasses of dead crows found in Tel Aviv. The Ministry announced Thursday that the birds did not die of avian flu. |
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kathylynndean
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Posted: March 23 2006 at 12:30pm |
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Yes, I am suspicious also, and have not yet decided what to do with my frozen crows. I don't even want to give them to any State organization now! I would like to find a private lab to do the testing for me. The more I research, the more "flocks of dead birds" I find in relation to Oregon, and they NEVER mention h5n1. NEVER EVER!
Plus the lack of knowledge on everone's part disguists me. I am also not going to trust any results that come out of the State lab. They have lied to me too many times.
Please everyone, take the time to read this article published by the United Nations. It will blow your socks off, or if you do not have socks on, it will blow off something else:
It is not long, and will not take much time to read, but it will make an impact on you....
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stardust
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Posted: March 23 2006 at 2:29pm |
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Kathy, WTG. I have been following this thread and I am in awe of your tenacity. And thank you for all of the links and info. You go woman!!!!
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"Prepping is Power"!
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Fruit Loop
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Posted: March 23 2006 at 7:45pm |
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I think you're right Kathy. I don't think I would trust the state. I would also go with a private lab if you can find one to do it for you. You do need to send it onto the lab soon so you know what you are dealing with. I would personally drive it to the lab and pick it back up if you are allowed? Man, a tough decision indeed.....
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kathylynndean
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Posted: March 23 2006 at 7:55pm |
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Thank you so much Stardust. I am sure glad I exposed the problem, but like others, the editor will not print any of my letters or information. When I get the time, maybe tomorrow, I want to pull it all together and submit an op-ed piece on the subject.
I got ahold of Dr. Heidel today, and he vouched for Dr. Gillin, and I will take my frozen crows to the ODFW (Oregon Dept of Fish and Wildlife) on Monday. They will ship them to Corvallis for testing.
I phoned every lab in the phone book today, and no labs test for H5N1. I managed to get a really helpful woman at one of the labs, and she said she would make a few calls, and phone me back. Absolutely no "Independant Labs" in the State of Oregon test for H5N1. She gave me the number of a Vet in Grants Pass that was supposed to know everything!!!
I called him, and was told by his assistant that they didn't test for AI, and all of their samples to be tested get sent to Corvallis. I discussed with her that this did not make sense. When bird flu hits, Oregon has to have more than one lab. She agreed and said she would phone me back.
It turns out that all samples for all Oregon vets get tested at Corvallis. Period. That is THE ONLY PLACE IN OREGON THAT IS SET UP TO TEST FOR H5N1.
It was beginning to look like a very bad B-Grade horror movie to me!!! If anyone could check their state's set-up, it would be helpful. If most states only have one lab for transmittable diseases, how in the world will testing get done in a timely manner? Once AI hits, we are going to have to know which species are infected, and common sense tells me that more than one lab will be necessary. Plus, if one state for some reason does not get AI, they will shut down their borders really fast to anything that does have AI. So we will have to know quickly what is infected.
This puts a whole new twist in the mess, doesn't it? I have not yet researched what the test procedure is, how long it takes, etc. I think it's in the back of that Govt report you can download, but I am going to Google it tonight.
The packing and shipping procedures are time consuming and expensive. You have to use one of those small ice chests, a bunch of "Blue-Ice" and you don't get your ice chest back unless you include money for return shipping. I guess I am lucky that I am going to get mine shipped for free! Plus you have to pay for the testing, and not everyone can afford that.
This is really screwed up....
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Kathy L. Dean quotes: "An Opinion, Like An Axe, Is Only As Good As The Person Who Wields It." -- Gölök Buday |
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Capricornmonkey
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Posted: March 23 2006 at 8:10pm |
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Wow, how messed up is that? You are doing the right thing, Kathy. You really have no other choices. Thank you for your prompt action. Take care.
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March to your own drummer.
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Deanna
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Posted: March 23 2006 at 8:56pm |
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I just came back from my neighborhood park and everything about birds seems weird to me and yes I know this is pure paranoia. They seem louder than usual there seems to be less birds than usual .
Today a saw a swan all by itself and they usually are in twos and usually six or seven but always in pairs and not in my area of the city.One by itself seemed so lonely
,
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Peaches
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Posted: March 23 2006 at 10:07pm |
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I was just reading California posts and Joseph writes he found 2 dead blue jays in his Washington yard and days later his cat got very sick. 2 of my cats got violently ill last month within 2 weeks of each other and couldn't eat for 3 to 4 days.
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Posted: March 24 2006 at 7:18am |
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Kirby, It's me Wendy. No OOPS is necessary. I really enjoyed the email and wish it were for public viewing!!! It's easy to become a zealot typer though and I catch myself re-reading things before posting or sending.
I guess what I have learned from this looming disaster, is this, we all have to be on the same side if we are going to prevail. The government needs to understand that when it comes to humanity, that politics needs to be set aside and just do and inform because it's the right thing to do. Thanks for sharing, I have saved that email.
Wendy
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oknut
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Posted: March 24 2006 at 7:40am |
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Kathy~ I fear that your situation in Oregon is probably the norm. I'm in Oklahoma and doubt that anything is being setup or that people who should be knowledgable are being educated. We live in Tulsa, near a flood control park area that has water and water fowl. Each spring we have ducks waddling around the neighborhood looking to nest. We've had some sort of strange looking bird wandering the area for months like she owns it. I've been told she's a guinea hen - may not be spelled right. My husband and I have both noticed that we haven't had our usual numbers of crows in the area for awhile now.
Most important - how are you feeling? In an earlier post, it sounded like you were getting sick. I hope you're feeling better. I really admire what you've gone through to get something important done. Deb (oknut) |
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