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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Lessons Learned From "Jericho"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2006 at 10:26pm
does anyone know about a tv card? or how to turn your computer on to tv...and you pay something monthly?  or not.  help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dark Wombat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2006 at 5:37am
Originally posted by FictionWriter FictionWriter wrote:

 
I guess if I have to ask, i will...What's a Neo-Con?
 
I want  to avoid starting a hijack of this Jericho thread (last night's episode was not action-packed, but certainly seemed to advance the plot a bit--I think I see an unlikely alliance in the making!), so I'll just post a link to the wikipedia entry.  :)
 
"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God, believe also in Me." --The words of Christ, John 14:1
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Last nights episode was a bit slow.  I would have used those pumkins in another way perhaps made HUGE pumpkin pies and gave them to everyone in town,I believe there are 6000 living there.  That would have filled everyone up for a while.
 
The lady who owns the grocery store is quite a mean individual.  The sad truth is I know some people who would act just like that! How many people would use a diaster to take advantage of others?
 
The scary part is the mayor needing meds and not having them.....we could eat just about anything,but how many of us could go without modern medication with all the illness's that plauge us?  Made me think of just how far would I go to see that my family had what they needed.
 
The x-cop seems to have had a heads up about the attack and moved his family into place way ahead of time....wonder what is up with that.
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Yes - they "ex-cop from st. Louis" seemed really surprised that NYC survived the attack.  And when talking with his daughter it was clear they were from Washington DC (not St. Louis).
 
Did anyone else catch when they were talking about how Topeka wasn't hit but Lawrence Kansas was - and they were wondering why Lawrence.  Lawrence is the location for the old nuclear survival movie The Day After.
:-)
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lkay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2006 at 6:15am
I agree raptureready, the medical problems of being in a situation like this (or bf) is the scariest part for me. I feel better about water and food, but know nothing at all about the medical problems that could arise and how to deal with them. It does make you wonder how far you would go for your family. Knowing this is more frightening also, because you know so many are going to be out there doing things they normally wouldn't think of doing.

So are the brothers armed with guns and a fast car to do what ever it takes to get the medicine for their father, or is it for protection? I'm sure they know they'll meet the same kind of resistance as someone coming to their town (to take their medicine) would receive.

The show last night made me worry more. Desperation is starting to come out....and greed as with the store owner lady. Isn't she a nice one? After all the boy (I can't think of his name) has done for her, she gives him a place to sleep at the store instead of her house?
    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emmajones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2006 at 8:11am
The store lady is creeping me out more and more. No way would I take a teenager's antique jewelry box for a case of soda. Adults shouldn't take advantage of foolish teens, but steer them in a different direction.

Can anyone here recommend a really good book to have to help deal with serious medical situations in the event that there are no doctors or nurses available? Beyond the basics(band aids, antibiotic cream, Immodium, etc.) I have no clue what else to stock in case of a severe emergency. Also need to do more research on herbal and homeopathic alternatives for meds that I can't get.
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I am looking at this show differently since a lot of the things that would be there can't be seen. there would be trash in the streets, lawns would not be mowed, abandened cars would litter the streets, cloths would be on all the cloths lines, fire pits would be smoking from camp fires, dogs would be  hungry and how did the farmer have any cattle to get fresh milk from when the fallout would have killed them? the same with the horses. Remember everyone had to hold up untill the fallout was over. And that not to mention how good the ladies look for not having curling irons and such. And where are they getting water? Its entertaining but thats about it, I wouldn't read to much into the plots as true to life lessons. 
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Timber, my husband woud agree with you - he says it's a soap opera.  I love it, but have to aree with him to a certain point.
EmmaJones, I would recommend you get a library going of medical oriented texts and/or survival texts.  Choose paperback for the survival books for bug-out bags to alleviate weight.
Books I'd choose for non-medical persons interested in tacking most things without a doctor would be the "Where there is no Doctor" byDavid Werner.  I'd also suggest the "Where there is no Dentist" by Murray Dickson.  I bought them for my parnts and for the bug out location.  (My husband is a doctor, but we don't know that he'll be with us, so we're going at this with the approach of "prepared, prepared." 
Survival book would be "How to Stay Alive in the Woods" by Bradford Angier, and for game, "Dressing and Cooking Wild Game" by Teresa Morrone.
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soap operas are worse, I can't watch them at all. Another good author is Tom Browns field guide to wilderness survival. He also has Urban survival, and tracking wild game. I have read all his books and would say that the more books the better. None of them alone will cover the range off skills used by our grandparents to survive. I'll look for the books you listed. The one on dentist is one I could have used on a fly in hunting trip I was on during 911. A friend of mine was down with pain and nothing worked until I gave him hot pepper seeds tied up in empty tea bags to suck on. It worked and he was up and about with-in the hour. 

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I can't seem to get on and off without writing a book so I'm sorry folks... but here I go again:  Smile
 
Emmajones, in addition to the ones I've listed above, here's the description of the "Where there is no Doctor" book by David Werner:
"Perhaps the most widely used health care manual in the world, this book provides vital, easily understood information on how to diagnose, treat and prevent common diseases."
My husband recommends a tactical military book on emergency field treatment, but that one we have is out of print and over 60.00 now.  Look for one that is a "emergency" medicine or "Wilderness medicine" to outline what to do for fractures, falls, burns and other things that might come up that could be life threatening.  Timber is right, you really need to have a lot of texts on hand, as we haven't found one that truly covers them all.  I gave my parents a set of 11 books total that we'd ordered from amazon, and half.com.  I also went to the used book store near the large college here and found some great copies that I'd bought online that I've put in our bug out location.  (If I'd known they were there I'd saved a ton on shipping, but now I know, check the used book stores first!) 
 
If you've got someone in your party that is versed on medicine, or treatment (such as a doc, EMT or police office, etc.) don't assume that's "good enough" because THAT could be the person unconscious and in need of medical attention.  My husband pointed that out to me when I protested, I was saying "But honey, you'll hopefully be here, you're a doctor!" and he shook his head and set me straight.  You need to have the knowledge to secure any situation that may come up, so don't assume any one person in your group will have any set basis of info.  (And he points out that that rule also applies to guns.  Don't assume if one of you knows how to shoot then that's good enough, that person may be the first to get shot or sick and then how will you defend yourself.)  Also, he pointed out, if TSdid HTF and we're in the "recovery by small groups" stage, we can make it accessible to the neighbors for this type of library for more than us to use.  Who knows how long it would be for things to return to any semblance of normalcy?
Some more books that I've got that I'll share with you were interesting finds:
"Handy Farm Devices and How to Make Them" by Rolfe Cobleigh... back of book says:  A classic from the golden age of American farming, is as useful and pertinent for homesteaders and small-scale farmers today as it was when it was first published more than 75 years ago..."
"The Bird Flu Preparedness Planner" by Grattan Woodson, M.D. - got it mainly b/c it tells how to medically administer care to a person severely ill with the flu, in a non-hospital environment.  It assumes this is being read and followed by a person in an home environment.  Good book.
"Keeping the Harvest" Home storage of Vegetables and Fruits by Nancy Thurber and Gretchen Mead, has "more than 100 step-by-step photographs... the essential guide for beginners and experts alike."
"The Back-Country Kitchen" by Teresa Marrone.  I just got this today, excited to read it.... says contains over 150 tested, unique recipes, including camp breads, hearty chowders, one-pot main dishes.... " Is targeted for hikers, canoeists and anglers.
I've also got a score of other medical books, to include just a basic CPR book that I got when I took the class, and survival oriented texts.  I read someone post on here to get the Boy Scouts Field Guide and I think that's the next purchase I'll be making.
 
I haven't read all of these texts from cover to cover, but I've read enough to know I'd recommend them... except that one I got today, dunno yet.  I figure I'll have PLENTY of time on my hands to read when I'm SIP, it's just important to have it here and in my hands rather than sitting at the library where I can't get to them!
 
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I think the plot is that the terrorists set off N bombs all over USA.  I'm with Timber on the lask of realism.  The Day After is more realistic.  If it was PF people would be avoiding each other so there's no real comparison.
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EmmaJones,
 
I have both of the 'Where there is no Doctor/Dentist' books in PDF format, along with a number of other medical/first aid type books (most in PDF formats, some in txt/html/doc formats. They are easy to understand, and written for the layman.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emmajones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2006 at 6:23am
Thanks for the advice on books. I remembered I had a book somewhere that dealt with survivalism and I went digging around and found it, it's called "When Technology Fails". It's got all kinds of good stuff in it. It will be a good start but I'll definitely be adding some more of the titles mentioned here. Also found I had a book called "The Complete Book of Survival", but it's pretty basic. Strangely, the author does not cover a pandemic illness - but does give suggestions for what to do in the event of an alien invasion
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How can the writers get away with portraying the shop keeper and therefore capitalism, the corner stone of the American way of life, as evil. They must be communists. Where is McCarthy when you need him? This show should be boycotted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emmajones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2006 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by FictionWriter FictionWriter wrote:



I have both of the 'Where there is no Doctor/Dentist' books in PDF format,


Thanks, found them online today. Excellent and easy to understand, lots of useful information.
    
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Is the Jericho show in CBS the latest one? or are they one behind?
.......................................
 
how many of us could go without modern medication with all the illness's that plauge us? 
............................................................
 
I wouldn't want to go without modern Med.  But I do feel pretty safe with my dozens and dozens of herbal teas... I made up a remedy for my mom once and she was pretty thrilled.  We go to our doc reg. but if we had a high fever we always call.  But Docs say not to be so afraid of high fevers. 
There are books to tell what to do in case of high fever...
 
A book I like for children is out of print...I think it was by Doctor Lendon Smith...he may have changed the name?  It may not have been popular with his fellow Docs... something like... How to Keep You Child Away From The Doctor... I think he wrote it because he may have been fed up with the antibiotic free for all.  But I was glad for them at times.
 
A book I really like is.... By Doctor A. Vogel... I love it, it has been around for yrs and it has that remedy to help someone survive a heart attack I mentiond here.  And look how inexpensive it is at Amazon.com... I'll have to have a look at the other books people mentioned.
 
 
The Nature Doctor: A Manual of Traditional and Complementary Medicine
 
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I found Store Lady to be hilarious. Think about it for a sec. Not only has someone attacked the US, but the US struck back with WMD. It looks like money is worthless and people are starting to barter. But, she's not taking anything of value in exchange for the food. I mean, once she bargains away all her food supplies, can she really eat the jewelry box? She's bargaining food for things with monetary value (though a jewelry box for a case of soda seems pricey to me)...and what's gonna happen when she needs to bargain for more stock? She might be the richest person in town, but when it comes to common sense, she sure is lacking.
 
I'm watching Jericho for the entertainment value, and for the odd bit or two that might be helpful. But for practical survival methods, I'd prefer Survivorman on Discovery.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MelodyAtHome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2006 at 8:36am
I love survivorman. What a great show. I have learned so much watching this.
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Gosh, I really need to work on getting more meds!  Another thing - I didn't catch how they got the oven to work; it sure was smoky.
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I love survivorman. What a great show. I have learned so much watching this.
..............................................................
 
I couldn't find it tonight...after Jericho?   9pm... Discovery ch?
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I think Discovery is replacing it with another survival type show. Supposed to premier this month, I think. Called Man v. Wild, or some such...
 
There was one scene i loved in tonite's Jericho...the look of 'Oh scheise! How long has my foot been in my mouth!' from that dude that wanted to investigate the 'cop'. Hell, i know half a dozen places where I can buy a phony badge that's heavy Wink
 
But that look when the guy opened the wallet and saw the ID from the FBI's Office of the Director...sweet! Mr. Busybody deserved to be taken down a peg or three.
 
Fema/DHS hiring mercs after a nuclear attack? Damn, I think the numbers of military active/reserve would have to be at below bottom of the barrel before they'd do something like that...especially for CONUS...Iraq, or some other country i can see it, but here at home? Don't think that's plausible.
 
And why, would one of those mercs state that ammo was in short supply? Especially 5.56? (.223) That's like one of the most common calibers out there. Even little out of the way places way out in the sticks, it would be possible to find that caliber...the same for 7.62 (.308). Another not so plausible event in the episode...
 
I missed about 15-20 mins of the beginning...got in just as Jake and Eric were meeting the Merc in the hospital...and there was yet another glimpse of insight into where Jake was for the years before returning to Jericho (working as a contract truck driver/merc in the ME)...where i'm sure he picked up some interesting survival skills...
 
Eric loosing his wallet in the heat of battle is a dumb mistake, that I'm sure they'll pay for soon enough. With so many things running through your head when under fire, believe me, my wallet is the least of my concern. (Been shot at by indiscriminate hunters, not realizing that their rounds travel a little beyond the stupid paper target they were trying to hit...i hit the deck damned quick!, and my wallet was the least of my concerns!) But yet another thing for the show...I mean, his wallet looked fat...ok, might be a lot of junk in there, but heck, i'd a cleaned out that thing shortly after the bombs fell...if you need ID, carry it, but what's the sense in carrying all those cards if there's no electricity? I mean, sure someone could run an imprint onto a receipt, but just how many stores still have manual imprint machines? And yeah, there are other ways to imprint a card, but who would really expect to be able to use their cards after a nuclear strike?
 
Hmmm, maybe i need to quit looking at the show so critically and just enjoy it? Nah...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lkay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2006 at 6:06am
Emmajones, would you mind posting the link where you found "Where There Is No Dentist" in PDF format? Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emmajones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2006 at 9:09am
Originally posted by lkay lkay wrote:

Emmajones, would you mind posting the link where you found "Where There Is No Dentist" in PDF format? Thanks


http://www.hesperian.org/publications
    
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The new show is called Man vs Wild and will be on this coming Friday at 8pm Central time.
 
Did anyone see how they 'made ice from fertilizer and water'?
It didn't work using plastic bowls but it supposedly worked using metal bowls. Don't understand as I always thought fertilizer melted ice.
 
Any chemist here to explain? If something like this can be done, then it would be good to know when the time comes.
 
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Originally posted by emmajones emmajones wrote:


Sorry, I'm still having a hard time understanding, please bear with me . . . So is it the number of warheads, not the number of targets, that make it a full strike? Or do you need a lot of warheads hitting a lot of targets to call it a full strike?
    
 
A limited strike is limited targeting of resources. a limited strike could be limited due to geographical area, industrial type, facility type, personel type, etc. The objectives are limited in nature and not designed to annialate the enemy , just produce a severe blow to produce the desired effect ussually a political or military advantage,but intentionally allowing the enemy as a whole to survive the strike. A classic limited strike would be on a large force concentration, that once taken out would allow an invasion force in another locale to meet minimum resistance and establish a controlled section of real estate. Another classic limited strike would be what happened in Japan in WW2. The US did not destroy Japan. They destroyed 2 cities in order to get unconditional surrender, and allowed Japan to survive. The US could have destroyed to major cities including the capital and the government but did not. Therefore it was a limited strike. The US did not do the max damage possible to Japan.
 
An unlimited strike is designed to annialate the enemy in every detail, To destroy the entire military force, all important industry, major population centers, all command and control facilities, all food production capability and all transportation capabilities. To ensure distruction, multiple warheads from multiple vehicles are used to overlay the force in coordinated effort with timing based on strategy. As an example, generally the most vulnerable aspect of any enemy is command, control and communication. With that destroyed, orders can not flow to release weapons, then quickly followed by attacks on the most dangerous weapons that the enemy has and then down the line.
 
In Jerich, assuming terrorist attacks on some major cities, I would say they don't have the capability to do a traditional unlimited strike. They will do the most damage they can with what they have, so in that regard it would be unlimited, but they don't have the ability to destroy every aspect of the country.I don't think these terms have much meaning in that situation.
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Thanks, Mach, that makes it a lot clearer.     
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If you click on the following link and then scroll half way down to where it says "full episode of Jericho", you can watch all of the episodes online at full length.
 
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Mach,
 
The US didn't do max damage to Japan? Ok. I agree with the statement, but as I recall from the history books, the US only had two weapons at the ready. My understanding of that moment in history is this: Ok, so I'm the emperor of Japan and the country I'm at war with dropped a powerful bomb yesterday on one of my major cities. Do I surrender? No. I mean, what are the odds they have more than one bomb? Wouldn't they have used it by now?
 
I'm pretty certain that was his thinking on the 7th of August. By the 9th, that thinking would be more like....we need to surrender as quickly as possible before they drop more of those monstrous devices on us!
 
But your example of limited vs. full nuclear strike makes more sense than what I wrote down...
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Fiction Writer,

Although on 9 Aug, the US had no more nukes ready, there were many being readied and were available for deployment a few weeks later.

The strike on 6 Aug was so foreign to anything seen up to that point, that the Japanese did not know what had happened to the city on 6 Aug. The US actually made a press release and told the Japanese govt what had happened to Hiroshima. When they still did not surrender, the second bomb was dropped on Nagasaki on 9 Aug and the Japanese govt surrendered unconditionally. The fact that the US told Japan what had happened and what destroyed the city shows that the US govt wanted Japan to surrender, not totally destroy Japan. That's why it was considered a limited strike.

During the cold war, the concept(threat) of mutually assured destruction (MAD)using full unlimited strike and keeping weapons targeted that way, was viewed as deterrence. Tactical nuclear weapons were designed as limited strike weapons to be used on the battlefield.

The war on terrorism is so different than anything up to this point., that everything has to be rethought with new strategies. My personal opinion is if a Jericho situation happens in the US with nudets in some major cities, i would not be surprised if the US destroyed several suspect nation capitals in retaliation. But that is just my opinion.
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Mach,
 
I happen to agree with your speculation. In fact, I am all for turning certain ME countries into glow-in-the-dark parking lots, but well, my opinion just wasn't wanted by the powers that be.
 
I re-read a story recently, called Nuclear Autumn (Ben Bova), in which he laid out the theory that a Nuclear Winter would take X number of nuclear strikes, and that X-1 would constitute a Nuclear Autumn, and that if a country launched X-1 nukes at, say, the US...then any nuclear retaliation by the US would force the world as a whole into a Nuclear Winter. Talk about blackmail! But it's a good and quick read. Written in the '80's before the end of the Cold War.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2006 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by FictionWriter FictionWriter wrote:

Mach,
 
I happen to agree with your speculation. In fact, I am all for turning certain ME countries into glow-in-the-dark parking lots, but well, my opinion just wasn't wanted by the powers that be.
 
I re-read a story recently, called Nuclear Autumn (Ben Bova), in which he laid out the theory that a Nuclear Winter would take X number of nuclear strikes, and that X-1 would constitute a Nuclear Autumn, and that if a country launched X-1 nukes at, say, the US...then any nuclear retaliation by the US would force the world as a whole into a Nuclear Winter. Talk about blackmail! But it's a good and quick read. Written in the '80's before the end of the Cold War.
 
That sounds interesting. Where did you find it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2006 at 3:55pm
almost time....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2006 at 4:48pm
Grabbing the carrot sticks....Did anyone hear after this one is the season finale?  Someone is getting killed off,I think tonight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2006 at 6:51pm
Yup The grocery lady...She got stabbed...Im sure she the one that bit the dust...
I think her name is Gracy.
 
I learned I need one of the turkey callers...You know that you press and it makes a turkey sounds...It's a box and when you sqeeze it it call to other turkeys.
 
I also realize I need more amo for the 12 guage for hunting...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emmajones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2006 at 7:05am
Jericho made me seriously angry last night. Like this is really the only generator within a hundred miles? That they have to go start a little war over it? Give me a break. And the guy who left his pregnant wife for his mistress? People need to pull together at times like what they're going through. He's a dog. I hope he's next. I hope he and his girlfriend are seriously ostracized.

Maybe in some silly, spoiled Hollywood writer's head this is reality, but I don't think so. Not by a long shot.   
b4giving
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2006 at 10:04am
basically if it's on tv and not on pbs or the discovery channel it has a soap opera in it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2006 at 6:25pm
I had not watched this show until finding this link here. I watched the season premeire and part of the second show. Seems pretty good so far, I will be watching the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2006 at 10:03pm

No show is going to be totally realistic. I have tried and tried to get my relatives to prep, and my sister said, after watching the last episode of Jericho that her husband said, time to prep. I think the looks of the Chinese writing and that, made a impact. Anything that gets people to prep is worth while.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2006 at 10:34pm
I think the  show will get people to consider preparing ahead.
 
I'm wondering what the situation is.   Did Iran fire at us? and then China wiped them out and is now trying to help the US?  Perhaps I ate too much turkey :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 9:38am
 China would be behind Iran in reality, they support them and N Korea. I dont think we are wiped out, in the show.
I proposed a similar situation like the one in Jericho to a friend of mine who is a officer in the military, a high ranking officer. I said, what would we do if terrorists used suitcase nukes on five large American cities? He said very calmly, "if they do that, they have not hit one military target" In other words, hitting civillian targets, would result in a swift and deadly responce from the USA. Lets hope the rest of the world realizes that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 1:16pm
Here is an off the wall suggestion - they said that the food and supplies were dropped by American planes if I remember correctly.  Maybe the Chinese writing on the boxes was stuff we had ready to drop to the Chinese if neededConfused.  But then again, I usually miss something important that would lead me to my off the wall conclusions.
 
GG
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 5:26pm
a friend of mine who is a officer in the military, a high ranking officer. I said, what would we do if terrorists used suitcase nukes on five large American cities? He said very calmly, "if they do that, they have not hit one military target" In other words, hitting civillian targets, would result in a swift and deadly responce from the USA.
..........................................................................
 
That did make me feel better.
 
I do not think the Chinese would be against us.  They have only acted aggressively in economics.  Their faith is not aggressive as in ...kill the infadels... But then I have no real idea of the mind set over there.
 
I mean ...they love golf and baseball just like us :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roxy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 9:10pm
hi to all, the  newer American planes were also affected, just like the new cars, by the blasts, thats why they are using older airplanes. what was it called an EMP???, the reason everything electrical went dead. roxy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2006 at 10:12pm
They should be on alert... we have our carrier units lying in wait...
 
Gee... they must be quite nervous.
 
 
Read here...  http://www.debka.com/
 
DEBKAfile

DEBKAfile reports: Russia sells Iran sophisticated missile systems capable of repelling US or Israeli air or missile assaults

November 25, 2006, 11:49 PM (GMT+02:00)

The first of 29 Tor-M1 systems in the $700m deal have been delivered to Iran by Moscow despite US opposition to their sale of a weapon widely regarded as the most advanced of its kind in the world. Some Iranian and Russian air defense experts say its full deployment at Iran’s nuclear installations will make them virtually invulnerable to American or Israeli attack in the foreseeable future. Therefore, no more than six months remain, until the Russian Tor-M1 systems are in place, for any attempt to knock out Iran’s nuclear weapons industry.

DEBKAfile’s military sources disclose that Iran’s military and Revolutionary Guards units are on top war alert for the second month. Their fighters and bombers are parked on the runways ready for takeoff, their surface missiles including Shehab are a button’s push away from firing and their war ships and submarines cruise out at sea in the Persian Gulf and Arabian Sea. Tehran is determined not to be caught napping by any surprise attacks.

The fact that officials in Moscow, albeit unidentified, announced the Tor-M1 missile’s delivery to Iran indicates the Russian president Vladimir Putin has decided to shrug off US objections, including a request put to him in person by President George W. Bush when they talked in Moscow and Hanoi earlier this month.

DEBKAfile adds some information about this super-missile: The first batteries to be delivered come ready with Iranian crews trained at Russian air defense corps facilities. The advantages of the Tor-M1 system are principally its ability to simultaneously destroy two targets traveling at up to 700km/h in any weather by day or night; its powerful, DAX 4g-resistant radar with electronic beam control, and its vertically-launched missiles’ ability to maintain high speed and maneuverability throughout their operation.

According to military experts, the 3D pulse Doppler electronically beam-steered E/F-band surveillance radar feeds to a digital fire control computer range, azimuth, elevation and automatic threat evaluation data on up to 48 targets.

The 10 most dangerous targets are automatically tracked and prioritized for engagement. The maximum radar range is billed as 25 kilometers but may be more. On the lower right side of the tracking radar, which is located at the front of the turret, is an automatic TV tracking system with a range of 20 km that enables the system to work in a heavy ECM environment.

Last spring, the United States called on all countries to stop all arms exports to Iran.

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