End of the World Scenarios

Turboguy wrote: To be honest the blackout will prevent riots and mass suffering. I know we want to know in order to protect ourselves but government must calculate for the overall good. Actually without power for a couple days the water from your tap will be non potable. There's a good chance that people will riot over food, but that would take some time. People would riot over water within a couple days. The water treatment plant requires an almost constant power input to cleanse and disinfect the water you get from your tap. Without it the large ballast tanks would quickly be infected with polluted water, and then the big water towers a day or so later. After that the water from your tap might not even be drinkable after boiling, unless you distilled it, which takes a goodly amount of time. If you've got a well your'e set, unless you, like I, live in an inhospitable frozen wasteland when wintertime sets in. Oh, and without power for a couple nights, most cities would eat themselves inside out. I live in a very low income area. The power went out for two days a couple years ago and on the first night everyone immediately went outside to see what was going on. Not a lot happened that night, but the second night came, and so did the dirtbags. They basically went on a crime spree, and the cars along the streets looked like a tank had driven down the street the next morning. I had two of my car's windows put out, and someone threw a brick through my picture window on the front of my house. If the power goes out for an extended amount of time, and people know that it's staying out, and there's really no law enforcement to speak of, they're going to destroy everything. Remember the theory I have about this thin veneer we call society clinging, even now, by a stick of bublegum and three toenails? Give people a reason like that to act like animals, and they're going to take full advantage of it.

    
We still don't really know infection levels and how large of the percentage of the population will get sick. We can't trust the WHO or CDC anymore cuz of govt Exactly what is the risk of going to the store? 100% infection.

Avoid large concentrations of dead birds this winter, this year it was reported that the bf was endemic in birds in Asia. All of the dozens of deaths since last march aren't even in flu season.

We need to rely on each other for information. Seeing fewer people? Lot of coughing? Even traffic during rush hour? If one of us from one region sees these, the rest of us will be alerted to protect ourselves.

Turboguy wrote: .........I'm of the opinion that was stated earlier, that the "in the know" crowd know full well what's going on, and are going to be selling off their stock options before an imminent crash. I'm not so sure that it is going to happen this winter. People have been saying that it's going to happen in the near future since I started posting on this site in 2005. It still hasn't happened yet, which isn't to say that it's not going to, but I'm not going to say it's coming until I know for sure.

I'm on your page, Turboguy. Your posts are always good. Am now seriously looking for financial hedge against mass stock sell-outs. With the Fed lowering (anticipated today) interest rate and another 3 projected, we might have a good chance to get into other financial areas. I'm looking at an equity line of credit when interest rates go down the 3rd time.   D

Yeah, I've even read a theory somewhere put forward that a pandemic might actually be perpetrated upon the populace in order to reduce the population. How outrageous is that? Do I believe it? I'm beginning to think nothing is beyond the "in the know" crowd. Google coming ice age to read how our government has made a study of the impacts of the next ice age. That includes food, water, housing, economics, birth rate, etc. Makes the original theory much more believable if the goal is to reduce population in order to survive famine and economic demands. D

"you just never know" Nothing would surprise me.

John it's not a Republican or Democrat thing, or even a George Bush deal.

Ever see the movie "Shooter?" Excellent movie especially for a gun nut to be saying that a gun movie was well done. Anyway, there's a Montana Senator in that movie who says something that is exactly right on. He says, "It's not about the Republicans, or the Democrats, blacks, or whites. It's about the Have's and the Have-Not's. Which group do you want to be in???"

People too easily write off anything up to it being George Bush's fault, when the fault isn't only his. It's the entire political leadership that's playing little games with us. The real difference between the Democrats and Repubs is which brand of oppressive flavor do you prefer?

You choose Democrat and you're choosing the nanny state where they coddle you throughout your life, and have their hands in your business while they tax you into poverty. If you choose Republican you're choosing the big business, buy or die, rich people come first brand of oppression. Both parties openly scrap amendments of the Constitution at will, it's just different amendments they don't like. They're all corrupt, and when more people stop and smell the reality roses, we'll all be better off.
    

In the event of one or more serious Pandemics in America, one of the most serious issues is the preservation the infrastructure of our government and our society.

It is a key survival issue to remember we have enemies within and without of the U.S. that will see a serious Pandemic as an opportunity to either setup a a strong foothold in the U.S. or actually invade it.

Without a strong military, government, and coordination of plans to deal with the Pandemic and maintain social order, you are opening door for a complete breakdown of social order as we know it.

The idea is not to have an "end of the world scenario" or merge into the flow of survivalist type thinking which would literally destroy our national security and our country.

Government exists for a reason. Protection. So does law enforcement, so does the military, so does our Intelligence and major health organizations.
Social and armed islands of survivalists will create the very Mad Max scenario we hope to prevent.  Local organization and cooperation would be a temporary fix while the government and scientists worked on a vaccine and staved off would be invaders until we could re-establish stability.

You do not want to live in a country, a survival wasteland which is lawless, and reduced to social disorder and dysfunction.

From the time a Pandemic, hopefully of a limited scope is announced and mobilization occurs, and people began to arm themselves and escalate levels of violence and raiding, looting, and such events - the preppers will hear the pounding on their nicely little prepared stores of food, to a scene of carnage, empty shelves, and not a nice scenario at all. Stores will be looted and warehouses set up by armed groups of militant types who will sell the food, and offered armed resistance to our government and troops.
So, when you start bringing in this type of thinking, you open not realistic recovery of our nation, you bring in a path to its collapse.

At 5% CFR we are looking at cracks forming in social order with over a 50% drop in people going to work at all.

And with a collapse of social order, you will have more to fear from the smiling neighbor who taught thrid grade armed and protecting their family, than the immigrant from some foreign country who has come to take over it.

My writing, and what I am putting together is in coordination with existing government plans in maintaining our way of life and protecting it.

This is not to say, we will be able to stave off darker shades of down the Rabbit Hole, it is only to say - if you think you are dissatisfied now with the over all situation, fail to support our country and its leaders as they try to contain outbreaks, distribute vaccine and supplies, and ask for a continuing communication and coordination throughout those times, and it will be the stuff that bad grade B movies are based on.

posted by Medclinician

    Ok, most of us have outlined basic plans for the duration of the pandemic, but let's run simulations of when we first have real warning that pandemic is going to occur. Let's say two days of warning.

The first thing that has to be done is this: either remove your money from the bank promptly, or use debit or check to buy supplies. We're not going to have much of a launch window so to speak before people stop taking money, especially debit/credit cards that puts money into the bank instead of cash in the register or their pockets. Smart point of advice - don't tell anyone that you took out that kind of cash, don't inform them you bought preps and don't inform them that the flu is coming. The BF scare has lasted so long most people would consider us nut jobs for worrying at all.

Now, things might not be disastrous. Maybe nobody on your block or apartment building gets sick at all, let alone die. But at some point you need to think of yourselves and family over your next door neighbor. Let them die on their own. Don't share preps, don't share anything. Every meal you give them is one less meal for your children. Turn them away at the door and if they don't leave, kill them. Kill or be killed.

So plan your move to obtain the last minute preps once you've received real knowledge of the pandemic. It is smart to spend as much of your paper money before preps become impossible to get.

johngardner1 wrote:     In the event of waves of the pandemic beginning, your neighborhood or small town might be quarantined. One thing you can do if that is so is go to the road block and ask for emergency supplies. So this is what you have to ask yourself - should you risk infection in order to get more supplies (maybe fresh milk??) or are you going to hole up until you're forced out for supplies?

medclinician wrote: johngardner1 wrote:     In the event of waves of the pandemic beginning, your neighborhood or small town might be quarantined. One thing you can do if that is so is go to the road block and ask for emergency supplies. So this is what you have to ask yourself - should you risk infection in order to get more supplies (maybe fresh milk??) or are you going to hole up until you're forced out for supplies?   I feel a discussion coming on here.  First, welcome to AFT, if you are a new user and welcome back if you are an old user relogged.   IMHO here are some things you should bear in mind.   1) a Pandemic will not be announced by the U.S. government until quite a list of preparations have been made, troops mobilied, some supplies relocated, and heads of federal and state government been moved to safe locations. There are currently laws which separate control between federal and state action which REQUIRE state to ask for assistance from Federal agencies before the Feds can interviene. Example being assistance from CDC must be requested. CDC doesn't just go in.   2) Second, things will be far more complicated - you might look and consider 1,000 Katrinas. Response, FEMA type, which has now been absorbed by other agencies and resources, must be coordinated.   People just "acting" may be one of the greatest problems we face. People just acted in the Watts riots.  Looters and those who no longer feel they are under the control or supervision of law enforcement is going to make life a lot more difficult.   3) The very first thing, if we still have Internet and CNN and communication, which will most certainly come from the president or Homeland, will set the entire stage for a nationwise response and readiness to the Pandemic.   4) It is odd that with all I put up the other day, and the extreme necessity to preserve and maintain the infrastructure of our country, you must consider you don't just Quarantine areas.   Quarantines are difficult to enforce and secondly the authority to do so and the fire power to back up a Quarantine is considerable. What do you do if people ignore the Quarantine?   Example in the Congo right now, we have people walking and moving through countryside, not using roads, and there is hardly the man or woman power in some areas to enforce a Quarantine of even a limited area.   So someone breaks the quarantine. What are you going to do? Shoot them? Arrest them? How much holding facilities, people to patrol and and enforce a quarantine do we have?   Fine, if we have a few farms or cities - not fine if we have whole states infected.   Where are you going to go for "supplies of fresh milk?"  The average Wall Mart in the event of a real scare is going to be sacked. Stores are dependent on constant restocking of goods. Who is going to protect the drivers of the trucks transporting food?   No intent to be difficult here. Just it is the reason people are prepping because there won't be any place to run down and get food or supplies. And the money in your pocket will be worthless.   The real information flow on the Internet and media is decreasing as more and more global disease problems are emerging and also the media is being flooded with news which is not informing us of the progress of current outbreaks.   This is no surprise.   I am seeing articles put up on major websites for information which are months old (July) as if they are current. I am seeing links to more current news leading nowhere.   Daily, we datamine and try to pull off the net and direct sources what is happening in the world, especially outbreaks.   News is drying up. Ironically we have flu sweeping across Africa and many countries. We have continued outbreak of Ebola in the Congo. We have country after country declaring themselves Bird Flu Free while people continue to die from it.   We are nearing when.   posted by Medclinician

    
Your comments and strategies are valid of course, but this isn't a forum of mine to convince what >will< happen but to run through simulations and plans for all types of situations that we can think of.

The quarantine isn't designed to contain the nation, but to cordon off a section of say Seattle that has the flu outbreak. Small cases will occur first then larger clusters inside the quarantine area. It will take time to infect everyone and therefore emergency supplies may be available from the soldiers at the quarantine point.

So I'm seeing your strategy based on a widescale infection whereas my previous message started on two days of warning. I know others will know too, that's why I said we had a launch window to get final preps before the stores are sacked.

I don't believe that we would have a couple of days notice, before the general public discovered that the s*** had hit the fan and ransacked the stores. Hospital staff would notice the higher volume of patients in casualty and the fact patients would be sent home earlier after surgery to make available beds,surgery cases would be cancelled for the same reason.
Police officers would have their leave cancelled and would possibly told there was a potential terrorist attack expected.
If either of these happened I wouldn't go into work [hospital] my sister has said she wouldn't go in either [police] and my brother in laws have said that during a pandemic there is no way they would drive a truck full of food unless they had full army escort and even then it is doubt full they would leave there homes.
The moment you have news that a pandemic has hit it is too late to get preps, last minute or not, besides your neighbours are going to remember that they saw you a few days before staggering home with groceries no matter how careful you are someone always sees you doing things. Unless you live in the middle of nowhere and don't shop.

    Moment of mercy for the weak - let's not forget the zoos and pet stores. I don't know how to find the keys to the cages in the zoo myself, anyone know what to do? If you do rescue a number of dogs and cats a single grocery store in seattle would have enough dog food for years, so we don't have to share human food to keep them alive. Allow the dogs to breed, they need offspring cuz millions of pets will either die from the flu too or worse starve to death.

    It is sad.

John- You are not talking about holding on to your preps...you are discussing taking someone else's by force. There is a big difference there.

    They claim h7n3 in british columbia. That's less than 250 miles from where I live. The sick birds will fly right through seattle on their way south. Watch out for lots of dead pigeons.