Could Chaos Be The Norm?

                    
                                                 Yes.

An epidemic erodes social cohesiveness because the source of your
danger is your fellow human beings, the source of your danger is your wife,
children, parents and so on. So, if an epidemic goes on long enough, and
the bodies start to pile up and nobody can dig graves fast enough to put the
people into them, then morality does start to break down.

-- Dr. Alfred Crosby, Author, "Epidemic and Peace 1918: America's
Forgotten Pandemic"

The level of chaos will be defined by where you live and how much people are willing to prepare.

People need to decide right now if they have the capability to take a life if it comes down to it.  People can talk big and all, but when push comes to shove, you need to know how far YOU are willing to take it...then no hesitation.

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

nawty

Witches brew or not I will still grieve for the lives that are lost!

Meewee

If one takes the large view - earth is barely a speck in the universe.  How important is it really?  Not much on a cosmic level.  How important are we?  Not much.  Things only have value because you think them valuable.  What is the difference between a $1 and a $100 bill.  They are both paper.  One seems more valuable because we decide it so.  How precious is an ant to a human. We step on them all the time without even realizing it.  How important is a human to an ant.  Not much unless they're out to kill you.  You're born - you die.   Maybe you get born again and die again.  Like a cosmic groundhog day.  Some think they know but who really knows.  What's the big deal.  You're either going to make it through this or die try'n.  Yes- grieve for the ones that don't make it - but life will go on.  At least until it ceases for all at some point in the future.  The sun will eventually expand and swallow the earth as it tries to survive the loss of hydrogen.  It's survival could well be our demise if we don't do ourselves in first.

I have been at the bedside of my mother when she died, at the bedside of a very close aunt when she died, at the bedside of a close uncle when he died and just missed being with my father when he died.  I have no problem with death.  I believe in life after death - and that death is just a transition - not an ending.  I also believe things happen for a reason.  I also believe in God.  This allows me to lead a rather pleasant worry free life - No matter what happens.  If I die I hope my wife goes out and celebrates our good times together, and doesn't shed a tear.  I'll grant you it's no fun to watch someone die.  But it is a part of life.  It must be dealt with.  Why does it have to be such a negative event.  Only because we think it so. 

I still think many people will be surprised at how many humans try to carry on providing essential services.

I mean it will be messy, and there will be a lot more chaos going on than normal. But if things totally collapse on every level, to the extent of ending up with regional warlors, I think that could only happen in the event of a huge infection/deathrate, not due to people panicing or their survival instincts.

People who have not ammased large stockpiles (most people) will realise that their best chance of survival is to work with other people. People will get bored, people will fear getting fired, people will want to help, do their bit. Not everyone, but some. Governemnts have enough drug stockpiles to offer antiviral prophylaxis (sp?) to various types of 'frontline workers' and whilst this will not convince everyone to show up, it will be enough for some.

I always marvel at how much chaos there is in the world at the best of times. Order is just a very thin layer that somehow survives ontop all the chaos without cracking. In times of war and other terrible strife, humans can indeed find themselves lowered to more primitive means of survival, but the desire to keep things going as best as possible still lives on.

I suspect there will be plenty of occurences during a pandemic which make my above thoughts seem naive and foolish. But when it comes down to the main pillars of society, I do not expect to see permanent chaos or a total collapse of existing power structures. It may look collapsed for a while but Im sure it will emerge with most of the power in the same place as it was before the pandemic. In order for warlords to come to prominence, more is required than just a power vacuum that a pandemic would provide.

People will hate and moan about the government if ther are food shortages and the government cant make it perfect. But they wont overthrow the government if it is providing something, too little food is better than no food.

One of the things I find ironic and that bothers me, is that we are now in a time period where the last of the humans who lived through massive massive strife in most western countries, and indeed many other countries, have died. My mums parents grew their own vegetables, came from an era of saving not borrowing, of rations, and of 'make do and mend' rahter than disposable consumerism. Whether it be bird flu or some other future crisis for humanity, those are skills and experiences that we will need sooner or later, and they wont be alive to help us out. Its great that the internet can compensate for this somewhat, and for the more isolated lives we live today, because those minority who have retained a decent education in the school of surviving without modern amenities, can share the knowledge with people like me who lack many of those skills.

elbows - you make some valid points.  Most people are willing to help others in need.  Most people just want to get along, do the right thing.  But also desparate times make people do desperate things.  There will be chaos and there will be a$$holes.  Hopefully when all is said and done the good people come out on top and not the other way round.

stormriderfla - you make a good observation.  IMO a child raised in day care, having both (if both are around) parents working, and no extended family to instill family values and life skills (ie- grandparents living in same house) - and watching a steady diet of MTV-games-etc. - would have a tendency to make a child really, really selfish.  A selfish person has no respect, empathy, sympathy, or desire to help others.  IFSHTF selfish people will turn into negative forces.  It won't be pleasant.  This is why this pandemic will be so very much worse than the 1918 one.  Instead of people getting together to build up it will turn into one massive Katrina experience - screaming, yelling, gimmme, gimmme, chaos.  When people can't get their way they will throw a tantrum and start destroying out of sheer frustration.  I would not want to be anywhere near a city.  I fear the end result will be a very repressive dictatorship.  The United States of America (for your own good) National Prison - "please take a # and stand in line 3 for your potato.  No pushing or you will be shot.  Have a nice day."

What will they do in a disaster?

Act like the animals they truly are and probably get shot by someone that's not going to stand for their crap anymore. It happened in New Orleans, it happened in the L.A. Riots, it'll happen even more when the flu comes to town.

When one says "I dumped Granny at the park" they will mean it.

We can only hypothesize about what life will be like during and after a bird flu pandemic since, most of the U.S. population (except maybe those who have experienced a natural catastrophe like an earthquake or such) have been exposed to any real inconvenience in their lives. Lets face it, most Americans are spoiled. Most people don't have to do without these days. Lets face it, even most of the "underprivilidged" have cell phones. They havnt experienced a depression, a war, a volcano, a tsunami...etc. Will it be Mad Maxx after the fact? How about the "day after"? Once we emerge from our "shelters" what could possibly be waiting for us? I lived in Detroit during the 1967 riots. Scary S*^T. And that was a just racial thing...not even a pandemic. How many of you have driven through a city being shot at? Not many I bet. Every time I go to the store to "prep" I think of that experience; people out of control...the mob mentality, something akin to the period of ignorant and superstitious humanity when we used to stone people or "burn em at the stake". Some join in just for excitement or to gain acceptance of the group at large.  Carefully examine how people react when they are threatened: either physically, or philosophically. My opinion of humanity, seeing it at its lowest level,  was significantly impacted during that time and I have carried that with me all these years. I would love to carry with me a brighter world view and think that all people are "happy, shiney people" with only the best of intentions, always willing to help, and they usually will when their own skins are not in danger, however, I'm a realist; not a reactionary, not a paranoid survivalist but a  lifetime student of sociology. This is why I firmly believe that our government has once again let us down in not more fully explaining the implications of this potential pandemic to the American people. People will "react" out of ignorance and fear and that is exactly where most people are at the moment. Ignorant about this issue. Im not a conspiracy theorist, but I have to really wonder what the intentions of this administration are when it comes to the apparent cover on this issue.  

tomMI, i think you expressed it best. i work with the poor inner city people, they know the ropes on how to survive......true story, i usually never buy  take out lunch, but one day bought a subway foot long sand wich, alone in lunch room  started to eat,,another co worker comes in , she  had no lunch,,gave half of the sandwich,which i was happy to do, at this point another worker came , saw us eating, complained she had no lunch sat next to us  all the time moaning and complaining how hungry she was, she fully expected me to give her what was left of a six inch sandwhich, even after i nicely told her i gave half to the other person, she has a job, never shared with me, i never would have asked her to. the point i'm trying to make is , their needs are first, forget manners,society will break down, ......i always have a garden and always bring produce, to share, some take it  everyday and then i hear them tell others they gave it away to some one else, out side our  group of co workers, instead of sharing  with those in the group who did n't get any , they have to grab it up .....   preppers have to decide who they are going to feed ,because once the word gets out  that you got food ect.  those few people you told are going to tell others and  the line out your front is going to multiply and multiply... i have told my small family to stop talknig about it and  we will build a false wall in a few places to hide the supplies    sounds crazy  even to me, but  i cannot feed all my friends and extended family......  that will be the hardist part of my family's survival    roxy