| PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL |
| 123456 |
| Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Interesting Tamiflu Fact |
Post Reply 
|
| Author | |
Guests 
Guest Group 
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Interesting Tamiflu FactPosted: March 20 2006 at 9:48pm |
|
Did anybody notice it on the bottom of page 27 in Preparing for the Coming Influenza Pandemic ???? TAMIFLU IS EXCRETED FROM THE BODY IN URINE COMPLETELY INTACT!!! I'm not advocating it, but the author noted that, technically, Tamiflu is competely excreted in it's entirety and, as such, could be "recycled". An entire course of Tamiflu could be administered and achieved with only 2 pills by collecting and re-administering the patient's urine either orally or by nasal-pharyngeal tube. Kinda distasteful, but, if there's more people sick around you than the Tamiflu on hand, it appears as a desperate option. Who knows what we might need to remember?
|
|
 |
|
|
Corn
Valued Member 
Joined: December 13 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1219 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 20 2006 at 11:42pm |
|
mmmmmmmm.........
 kinky
|
|
|
Speculation is the only tool we have with a threat that can circle the globe in 30 days. Test results&news is slow.Factor in human conditions,politics, money&bingo!The truth!Facts come after the fact.
|
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 12:26am |
|
The last time I checked... about two months ago IIRC... the good Doctor had retracted this recommendation. I'm not too proud to admit this was slated for me and hubby ( saving bulk for son & DL) but I crossed it off my list when I found that the recommendation had been removed from his second addition. It shook my world when the dosage and length of treatment was upped so dramatically. Scrambling, begging, and a lot of money eased the problem though. When things settle down for me I will go on the hunt again to see if he was finally able to validate this. Or perhaps some other adventurous soul could take on the task. |
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 3:47am |
|
Well I never. that's a whole lot of savings I dont have to hoard then. better get some plastic bottles just in case.
|
|
|
|
|
RicheeRich
Valued Member
Joined: February 08 2006 Status: Offline Points: 203 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 4:48am |
|
Normally, it's better to be pissed off, then pissed on. Perhaps things have changed.
|
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:29am |
|
resorting to such ,...........thing, is not logical at all.
|
|
|
|
|
FluReadyNow
V.I.P. Member 
Joined: February 11 2006 Status: Offline Points: 40 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 2:31pm |
|
Bannor,
Do you have a link or other info to help me start looking for more on this? I made note of it back then, and made preps to do it if necessary. I'd like to know if it has changed.
Whatever I find out, I'll post here.
|
|
|
The attacker must vanquish, the defender need only survive.
|
|
|
|
|
FluReadyNow
V.I.P. Member
Joined: February 11 2006 Status: Offline Points: 40 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 2:32pm |
|
Hermes,
Where does the logic break down?
|
|
|
The attacker must vanquish, the defender need only survive.
|
|
|
|
|
Frisky
Valued Member
Joined: March 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 123 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 5:35pm |
|
The answer to why drinking urine does not work can be found in an extremely technical article that I do not recommend you read. This article can be found by doing a Google search using the key words:
oseltamivir carboxylate G-I losses . This was article number 14 the last time I looked. The title is Review glycosidase inhibitors: update and perspectives on practical use... About half way through this long and very technical treatise is a paragraph led off with the word Zanamivir and in this paragraph the meat of the matter can be found. Originally oseltamivir carboxylate was developed to treat flu. It was found to have low oral bioavailability i.e. if you take this form of the drug it is mostly excreted in the stool and is not absorbed. Subsequent research resulted in the development of oseltamivir phosphate [Tamiflu]. Tamiflu is oseltamivir phosphate. It is readily absorbed and in the liver is converted almost entirely to the carboxylate which is the active ingredient which treats influenza. The carboxylate is actively excreted in the urine. About half is excreted every 8 hours. If you drink this urine the carboxylate mostly is lost in the stool. ER Doc
|
|
|
It is better to give than to receive.
|
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 5:47pm |
|
Thanks Frisky, now I understand. What you a re saying is eat S**t?
No thanks that's way beyond my limit. Let's get real here. If it comes out, surely it hasn't had anything to do. laws of thermodynamics and all that stuff. HD |
|
|
|
|
Frisky
Valued Member
Joined: March 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 123 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 5:50pm |
|
The name of the article I referred to above is Review Glycosidase inhibitors: update and perspectives on practical use ... A little less than half way into the article is a section on neuraminidase inhibitors The key section about development of tamiflu for treatment of flu is in this section. ER Doc
|
|
|
It is better to give than to receive.
|
|
|
|
|
Frisky
Valued Member
Joined: March 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 123 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 5:59pm |
|
Harpmandoodle I think you have it figured out i.e. if it goes on through it will not work. But you have it wrong about eating feces because it would still go right back out without working. ER Doc
|
|
|
It is better to give than to receive.
|
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 6:03pm |
But tasty..
 |
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 6:06pm |
Actually...it would imply that you get a one-time "free shot". ie, the first time through Tamiflu is converted to carboxylate and excreted in the urine. The seond time through, it's excreted in the stool. So, technically, you'd get *one* re-use, maybe doubling the effect of the prescription.
|
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 6:14pm |
 i will drink from this...
if you want to drink your own urine ,go ahead it is fine.
|
|
|
|
|
asatrape
Valued Member
Joined: March 16 2006 Status: Offline Points: 110 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 6:25pm |
|
I don't think that's something that's on my list of "to do" items.
I really don't think this pandemic will happen this year. I'm prepared, but I really don't think it'll occur. That being said, I am fortunate enough to be able to purchase tamiflu from online sites that will allow me (hopefully) live this life without drinking my own urine. But if I had to make a choice about saving my child, I'd give it to them in a heartbeat. Hermes.... I don't understand your posts. You come across as a bit jaded and somewhat mean. Why would you make fun of people who are having to make hard decisions about what they would do if faced with a pandemic? If this did turn into a H2H pandemic, would you drink your own urine if that could save you? Or if (assuming) you have someone you love fell ill, would you give it to them? Just curious..... |
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 6:33pm |
|
mean,bannor was mean,not me.........
i am a naturopath,and urine might be useful,in some cases,but not in bf cases,urine must be drank in a severe case,like once you are in a cataclysm,earthquaque,if you are trapped underneath rebells you might drink it to survive......
as for bf,this procedure is useless,because viruses will be in the urine.bannor advice is tragicly useless and dangerous.
|
|
|
|
|
asatrape
Valued Member
Joined: March 16 2006 Status: Offline Points: 110 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 6:37pm |
|
Thank you Hermes. That was a much more informative and important
way of saying what you said in the inital post. Riddles and
differences in language and inflection are hard to decipher sometimes,
so straight talk and opinions are always is the most effective way to
communicate with no misunderstandings.
And, fyi... I will not be eating anything I"m excreting.... gross!! Peace. |
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 7:12pm |
|
U.S. Unlikely To Have Enough Vaccines To Stop Avian Flu Pandemic
Mar 22, 2006, 08:10, Reviewed by: Dr. Priya Saxena "The medical experts' estimates suggest this is a bigger risk than anything else we are facing," said Baruch Fischhoff, a study co-author and the Howard Heinz University Professor of Social and Decision Sciences and Engineering and Public Policy at Carnegie Mellon. By Carnegie Mellon, A group of medical experts who attended a national avian flu conference last fall believe there is little chance the United States will be able to manufacture and stockpile enough vaccine or antiviral medication to stop a bird flu pandemic should the virus mutate into a form that can be spread easily from human to human, according to a survey led by researchers at Carnegie Mellon University. The 19 medical experts who attended the Pandefense 1.0 meeting in November gave a median estimate of a less than 1 percent chance that the U.S. will have adequate stockpiles of vaccines or antiviral drugs to prevent a pandemic within the next three years. The same experts gave a median estimate of 15 percent for the probability that the avian flu virus will mutate into a strain that can spread efficiently by human-to-human contact within that time. Their median worst-case estimate of the number of people who would die, should that happen, was 6 million in the United States and 180 million worldwide. Their median best-case estimates were 500,000 dead in the United States and 20 million worldwide. "It surprised me that they thought it was going to be this bad," said Wändi Bruine De Bruin, lead author of the study and research faculty member in the Department of Social and Decision Sciences at Carnegie Mellon. The survey also included 17 non-medical experts from a variety of fields who were more pessimistic about the likelihood of human-to-human transmission, giving a median 60 percent chance that it would occur within three years. They did, however, have more faith in medical science, giving a median 15 percent chance of the United States having enough vaccine and a 30 percent chance that the nation would have enough antiviral medications to halt a pandemic. "The medical experts' estimates suggest this is a bigger risk than anything else we are facing," said Baruch Fischhoff, a study co-author and the Howard Heinz University Professor of Social and Decision Sciences and Engineering and Public Policy at Carnegie Mellon. Both the medical and the non-medical experts agreed that the greatest hope for mitigating the effects of an avian flu outbreak among humans lies in heightened global surveillance and, should the virus become pandemic, hand washing, mask wearing and social distancing. Unfortunately, the efficacy of such strategies in preventing the spread of infectious diseases has not been extensively studied, Bruine de Bruin said. Although the federal government has expressed a commitment to open communication about these risks, its messages have not yet been scientifically evaluated, according to Fischhoff. - The results of the survey will be published in the June 2006 issue of the journal Global Public Health. www.cmu.edu http://www.rxpgnews.com/world/epidemics/avianinfluenza/article_3746.shtml |
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 8:12pm |
|
Frisky, Bless You! I appreciate you coming up with the latest facts for us. This issue creates tremendous confusion. And as I stated above, I had grasped onto it early on like the proverbial life line that I had hoped it was.
But, I take heart in knowing that great minds all over the world are working 24/7 to come up with some answers. Some may not be 100%, but the way I look at it, every little bit helps.
Thanks again!
Debi
|
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 8:48pm |
Hermes - please don't misunderstand me.
 I am not advocating drinking urine. It was an interesting fact that Tamiflu is not broken down on the first pass through the body. The rest was just speculative conversation.I don't advocate drinking urine during the pandemic. It was an interesting fact game, and a "what if" game - not a true suggestion.
I plan on taking multiple natural supplements to prevent getting sick - because I believe that that is the way to survive: not get sick. I DO have Tamiflu...but that is my "Hail Mary" plan and I hope to never have to rely on it...
 |
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 9:06pm |
|
ok bannor
|
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 9:22pm |
|
Hey-don't write off drinking your own urine yet! I have a friend
in germany who swears by it and it is used by many natural
practitioners for a lot of ailments. Urine is supposed to have the
complete vitamine and mineral requirements one needs. My friend had a
very severe skin condition . She could not be out in the sun without
swelling and breaking out in blisters. She went to a bunch of clinics
all over the country-nothing worked. two weeks after starting on her
urine, the stuff was gone.
Just thought I'd mention it :-) |
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 21 2006 at 9:33pm |
I've heard of it being used in certain indian sub continent cleansing fasts, etc. I had a friend who would do it and would also swallow a string which he would pull through his entire body.
I can't really say. I suspect that, perhaps, if it has a curative effect it is homeopathic in nature, ie, in taking back in a substance containing the waste or product which might be causing the problem that body might be more strongly stimulated to correct the problem.
However: in general I think that waste products produced by the body are just that: waste.
(Unless maybe it's the urine of a diabetic...technically that would be sweet with sugar, so, between that and the uric acid crystals, we could probably make home-made "pandemic candy" for the kiddies.....
 " |
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 23 2006 at 12:42pm |
|
I have a question for anyone prepared to use Tamiflu. If or when you use it, do you plan to take the suggested dose or, do you plan to double up, as has been suggested in some places. I've also heard that increasing the length of time taken might help. I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about that. |
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 23 2006 at 12:46pm |
|
“Originally posted by worrywart Hey-don't write off drinking your own urine yet!” -------------- Didn’t that happen in an old episode of “MacGyver” played by Richard Dean Anderson? |
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 23 2006 at 12:54pm |
|
Rick, we plan to double the dosage and double the duration. Instead of 10 caps for a course of treatment... I'm looking at 40 caps for ONE course of treatment. SZ
|
|
|
|
|
Hermes
Valued Member
Joined: March 23 2006 Status: Offline Points: 137 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 23 2006 at 1:02pm |
|
i prefer the silver bullet instead of golden shower
|
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 23 2006 at 1:05pm |
|
Which might explain why I latched onto the Tamiflu re-administration (fondly referred to as Tasti-pee in other circles) suggestion so readily.
PLEASE NOTE: ANYONE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE RETRACTION.... THIS IS NO LONGER A SUGGESTED TREATMENT ALTERNATIVE!!!!!!
SZ
|
|
|
|
|
guest
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 23 2006 at 1:10pm |
|
Rick.
IMHO wait and see. I am prepared for either option as far as dose..
IMO I prefer to use the benefit of modern science in making medical decisions..
|
|
|
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 23 2006 at 1:12pm |
|
Guest... ( I wonder if I don't know who this is??)
IMO I prefer to use the benefit of modern science in making medical decisions..
I took the information that I based my decision on straight from JAMA. (Or was it NEJM??) |
|
|
|
|
guest
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: March 23 2006 at 1:14pm |
|
I did not see your post. iMO was not for you. Pardon the misunderstanding.
|
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
|
Tweet
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You can vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
Hermes wrote: