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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Have to Admit Trump Screwing Covid19 Up

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FluMom View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 08 2020 at 7:40am

When you look at the Covid19 map it is time to get the people and states ready to SIP or we will be in big trouble.  If we do not take action now in the next 2 to 3 weeks this will not stop huge spread.  Now if you don’t care that the old people die ok let them die.  But some young will Die too.  SAD!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 7:49am

I have to admit he is good with some things and ok with money too.

But terrible with the pandemic planning though he is, he's better than Pence.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 8:21am

No. Not good with money. He bankrupted five of his companies.

I keep saying this... and yes FluMom you are NOT going to like it.  Nothing will be done that needs to be done.  This administration will not commit economic suicide like China did.  For Trump it is about his appearance that he MAGA.  Sadly, it will be on the backs of everyone in the U.S.  Until this is understood there's going to be a LOT of frustration about what needs to be done and isn't being done.  The test kits were only the first indication handling this crisis is a low priority from Trump and therefore for Trump appointees.   If there are city/municipal shut-downs and quarantines, it will come from the State level. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 8:35am

The Genie is out of the bottle and I do not know how the Trump administration or the WORLD is going to put the Genie back in the bottle.   Maybe like Doomsday movie you have to let this burn through the populations while they make a vaccine and treatments and the ones who do not make oh well. 

I have tried to figure Out how you deal with college students in dorms, old people in assisted/nursing homes there is no way but to let it happen.  Cruel but I think every hospital will do it’s best but in the end if you can’t wait this out until there is a vaccine or treatment you could be one of the dead.


Saw one 70 something off the Diamond Princess and for her positive Covid19 it was just a cold no problem but for others it was death.  Just like Doomsday movie or The Stand or Contagion all movies but looks like they have the answer as to how this will go down...IMHO,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Taxman100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 9:09am

This administration in not interested in the truth or science, they try to define what people should see and feel.  That is a dangerous game when what they want people to see may kill them.  I chatted with a west Virginian man last night on twitter, he said he is going to work regardless of if he gets sick, he agrees with the president this in no bid deal.  This is when facts versus fiction gets real.      

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 10:45am

Most of my posting are straight up news to inform,but also to point out the shortcomings of the national response. Many new members and guest here are seeking info,but they should also be aware of how this is spiraling,  due to misinformation,and half measures.if I can convince just a handful of people that doubt the reality I feel I have done my job.I know some find some of my posts critical but I'll take the heat.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 10:55am

A bit of a conflict could be brewing with the U.S. and the WHO, but who doesn't Trump have a conflict with.  

 "in some countries the level of political commitment does not match the threat level" - Tedros

 "The risk to the public is low" - U.S. Government

"It's their new hoax" - DJT, February 28th

 (Not to mention the lack of testing, and the gag order placed on health officials from discussing it without approval)

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If it's to be - it's up to me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Newbie1A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 11:41am

That's a really good article on some of the WH going's on - tried to cut and paste but just couldn't get it to do it in decent manner...

If it's to be - it's up to me!
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Originally posted by Newbie1A Newbie1A wrote:

That's a really good article on some of the WH going's on - tried to cut and paste but just couldn't get it to do it in decent manner...

I think I got it all. 

Inside Trump Administration, Debate Raged Over What to Tell Public

 

Michael D. Shear, Sheri Fink and Noah Weiland

 

5 hrs ago

  •  

WASHINGTON — After weeks of conflicting signals from the Trump administration about the coronavirus, the government’s top health officials decided late last month that when President Trump returned from a trip to India, they would tell him they had to be more blunt about the dangers of the outbreak.

If he approved, they would level with the public.

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But Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, got a day ahead of the plan. At noon on Feb. 25, just as Mr. Trump was boarding Air Force One in New Delhi for his flight home, she told reporters on a conference call that life in the United States was about to change.

“The disruption to everyday life might be severe,” she said. Schools might have to close, conferences could be canceled, businesses might make employees work from home. She had told her own children, she said, to prepare for “significant disruption to our lives.”

The stock market plummeted, cable news blared apocalyptic headlines and by the time Mr. Trump landed at Joint Base Andrews early the next morning, his critics were accusing him of sowing confusion on an issue of life or death.

© Getty President Donald Trump pumps his fist as he boards Air Force One during departure, Friday, March 6, 2020, at Andrews Air Force Base, Md. The President is traveling to Tennessee to view the tornado damage. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)

The president immediately got on the phone with Alex M. Azar II, his secretary of health and human services. That call scared people, he shouted, referring to Ms. Messonnier’s warnings. Are we at the point that we will have to start closing schools? the president added, alarmed, according to an official who heard about the call.

To health officials, the message needed to change with the outbreak. “The epicenter was shifting” as the number of new cases outside China surpassed those inside, said Dr. Anne Schuchat, the principal deputy director of the C.D.C. “The issue of what this might mean to us became more important.”

From the beginning, the Trump administration’s attempts to forestall an outbreak of a virus now spreading rapidly across the globe was marked by a raging internal debate about how far to go in telling Americans the truth. Even as the government’s scientists and leading health experts raised the alarm early and pushed for aggressive action, they faced resistance and doubt at the White House — especially from the president — about spooking financial markets and inciting panic.

“It’s going to all work out,” Mr. Trump said as recently as Thursday night. “Everybody has to be calm. It’s going to work out.”

Health experts say that telling people to remain calm is an effective message in an epidemic, and it is appropriate that it come from the president. Clear, honest communication is also crucial, and the United States has at times criticized China and other governments for being less than transparent.

© Agence France-Presse — Getty Images Patients infected with the coronavirus waiting to be transferred to a newly built hospital in Wuhan.

But from Mr. Trump’s first comments on the virus in January to rambling remarks at the C.D.C. on Friday, health experts say the administration has struggled to strike an effective balance between encouraging calm, providing key information and leading an assertive response. The confused signals from the Trump administration, they say, left Americans unprepared for a public health crisis and delayed their understanding of a virus that has reached at least 28 states, infected more than 300 people and killed at least 17.

© T.J. Kirkpatrick for The New York Times Mr. Trump visiting the C.D.C. in Atlanta on Friday.

A Very Big Deal

Mr. Azar was at his home in suburban Washington, on Friday, Jan. 3, when Dr. Robert R. Redfield, the C.D.C.’s director, called to tell him China had potentially discovered a new coronavirus. Mr. Azar, a former pharmaceutical executive who helped manage the response to earlier SARS and anthrax outbreaks, told his chief of staff to make sure that the National Security Council was aware.

This is a very big deal, Mr. Azar told him.

The Trump administration had eliminated the global health unit that had been part of the National Security Council, but within days, a team was meeting daily in the basement of the West Wing, pleading with Chinese officials to allow doctors from the C.D.C. into their country.

For weeks, the Chinese refused offers of public health cooperation. “China nice-talked it for a month,” said Kenneth T. Cuccinelli, a top official at the Department of Homeland Security who was working on the coronavirus effort. “‘Oh, well, thank you for the offer. Blah, blah.’”

On Saturday, Jan. 18, a day after the C.D.C. dispatched 100 people to three American airports to screen travelers coming from Wuhan, China, Mr. Azar made his first call to Mr. Trump about the virus, dialing him directly at Mar-a-Lago, his Florida estate. The president insisted on talking about e-cigarettes first, but Mr. Azar steered him to the virus.

Four days later, during a two-day trip to the World Economic Forum in Switzerland, the president chose to focus on the positive.

“We have it under control,” he said. “It’s going to be just fine.”

On the evening of Jan. 28, a new kind of crisis broke out in the skies.

The State Department had ordered the evacuation of the American Consulate in Wuhan and a 747 was in the air. But as it headed for the United States with hundreds of passengers who possibly carried the virus, administration officials in Washington were in a frantic scramble about where it should land.

Dr. Robert Kadlec, the assistant health secretary for preparedness and response, tried to secure some kind of military base in California, but was struggling to cut through Pentagon red tape. In a panic, his staff started booking hundreds of rooms at three hotels in the Los Angeles area, asking for full floors so they could separate potentially infected evacuees from other guests.

One idea was to land the plane at the Ontario airport outside Los Angeles, and officials went so far as to schedule, then cancel, a briefing for some members of the California congressional delegation. After hours of wrangling, and with the plane still in the air, Mark T. Esper, the defense secretary, said the plane could land at March Air Reserve Base in Riverside County, which had space to house all of the passengers.

Inside the White House, a debate broke out, centered on concerns that had become ever-present since the virus first emerged: How would the government’s actions be perceived by the public? And what would the president think?

At issue was whether to impose a federal quarantine order on the evacuees to prevent them from leaving for 14 days. Such authority had not been used since a smallpox outbreak in 1969. But officials had to find some way to make sure the passengers did not leave the base until it was clear they were not infected.

Mr. Azar pushed for the order but others were wary, concerned it could cause panic. They decided to ask the passengers to voluntarily stay at the military base. One woman balked, so California officials, who use quarantine authority more often, stepped in and forced the passengers to stay.

Time to Provoke China?

By the end of January, the virus was veering out of control in China, the source of 23,000 visitors to the United States each day. Any one of them could be the trigger for a new and undetected American outbreak.

Over four days in the White House Situation Room, the nation’s top public health and national security officials engaged in a fierce debate over whether to take the extraordinary step of banning travel from China.

Public health officials were initially wary. Experts have long recommended against restricting travel during outbreaks, arguing that it is often ineffective and can stymie the response by limiting the movements of doctors and other health professionals trying to contain the disease. A ban would anger China, they worried, ending any hope of cooperation with American medical teams.

Officials at the National Security Council and Department of Homeland Security argued that China had already proved unwilling to cooperate. A third group inside the White House was worried that the move would incite panic and could roil the financial markets.

By Thursday, Jan. 30, the public health officials had come around. Mr. Azar, Dr. Redfield and Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, agreed that a ban on travel from the epidemic’s center could buy some time to put into place prevention and testing measures. “There was so much we didn’t know about this virus,” Dr. Redfield said in an interview. “We were rapidly understanding it was much more transmissible, that it had a great ability to go global.”

The debate moved that afternoon to the Oval Office, where Mr. Azar and others urged the president to approve the ban. “The situation has changed radically,” Mr. Azar told Mr. Trump.

Others in the room urged being more cautious, arguing that a ban could have unforeseen consequences. “This is unprecedented,” warned Kellyanne Conway, the president’s counselor. Mr. Trump was skeptical, though he would later claim that everyone around him had been against the idea. The two countries were in delicate trade negotiations. Was this the time to provoke China? he asked. And what about the consequences on the economy?

The president sided with his more aggressive aides, and announced the ban next day.

Still, Mr. Trump was publicly upbeat about the effects of the virus. At a campaign rally in New Hampshire in early February, as the World Health Organization was announcing new cases by the tens of thousands, he said of the coronavirus, “By April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

In fact, the fight against the virus was already beginning to stumble.

A system used to track travelers returning from China went offline just as state officials were told to begin monitoring them. Mr. Azar said at a congressional hearing that he needed at least 300 million respirator masks for health care workers, but the national emergency stockpile, the government’s reserve of disaster supplies, held only 12 million, and many of those had expired.

And a C.D.C. coronavirus test distributed to state labs had a flawed component that led to sometimes inconclusive results, crippling the nation’s testing capacity for weeks, despite assurances by the administration that it was quickly being resolved.

Americans stranded in Japan on a cruise ship, the Diamond Princess, were finally returned home Feb. 17, but the president became enraged when he learned that 14 of the passengers had tested positive for the virus in the process of being transferred to government planes.

He later said that he was worried that bringing back people who tested positive for the virus would increase the public tally of people infected in the United States.

The month ended with a whistle-blower’s claim that workers from the Department of Health and Human Services had been sent to greet returning Americans from China at two military bases in California without the personal protective gear that is required for anyone coming into contact with potentially exposed patients. None of the workers tested positive for the virus, but the allegation shook Congress.

‘I Like the Numbers Being Where They Are.’

The president’s motorcade pulled onto the main C.D.C. campus in Atlanta just before 4:30 p.m. on Friday, passing protesters holding signs that said “Have faith in science” and “We need a vaccine against Trump.”

Ten weeks after the virus first emerged in China, the total number of confirmed cases in the world surged past 100,000 and public health experts warned darkly that the outbreak was far from over. The United States, they said, faces weeks, if not months, of uncertainty and continued disruptions in education, businesses, commerce, medicine, government and daily life.

“Time matters,” Dr. Redfield said in an interview on Friday.

Last week, Vice President Mike Pence was given control of the public messaging, and although Mr. Pence has had some mixed messages of his own — he promised more tests before they were available — the White House has since displayed more discipline. Mr. Pence holds twice daily conference calls with officials from across the country, and a virus task force he leads issues daily talking points, with comment from the health professionals, to make sure the message is consistent.

But the president still has his bullhorn. During his visit to the C.D.C., Mr. Trump told reporters that he was not inclined to let 21 people who tested positive for the virus on a cruise ship off the coast of California onto American soil.

“They would like to have the people come off,” he said. “I would like to have the people stay.” The president said he would allow health experts to make the final decision, but he made clear again where he stood.

His concern? It would increase the tally for the number of people infected in the United States. “Because I like the numbers being where they are,” the president said.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 1:11pm

What Trump has done is he gambled that this virus would blow itself out or get stopped by other countries. Unfortunately he lost. Had he won, then the economy would have continued and he could have continued his usual rhetoric about everything being great and about him being the greatest ever president of the greatest ever country. 

Now of course, he looks an idiot. America is going to really suffer with this one, not least because they don't have a free accessible health care system, but also because the people will feel they've been lied to and treated like children. 

To be honest, it was a tough call for him to make. just the way he is, he was always going to favour the economy over the people, but even now he could be repairing the damage by offering free health care, but he's not. History will remember him as the president who contributed to the potentially unnecessary deaths of millions of Americans. He won't be able to spin his way out of that one.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 1:14pm

Not sure about history on Trump, but he is still gambling that hospitals will be able to keep going and not too many will die.  But I think that genie is out of the bottle with no way to put it back in...look at Italy!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 1:45pm

Yep!  That genie rode off on the bolting horse - while the stable burnt down.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 2:05pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Yep!  That genie rode off on the bolting horse - while the stable burnt down.


 

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote pheasant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 2:06pm

We all need to calm down...people are more fired up about the politics of this than the virus....if that is what it takes for some to "vent"....if it's cathartic for you, so be it...get it out of your system, and leave the politics out.

America survived 2x world wars, a revolution, a civil war, 9/11 attack, pandemics and many boobs for president....both Democratic and Republican....if were going to continue to make this forum political.....it's going to get ugly.

We need to strike a balance here, be professional.

Oops, thought this was news section  

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR
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I'm terrible lol.  Also voted for the guy, so what can I say.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 3:26pm

I must say Pence looks very fetching as a nurse.

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His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 3:28pm

I still love Trump but I do not think with the CDC messing up the tests they had to do some sort of recovery.  I can tell you they are all in the dark on this one because they do not want to have the stock market dump down to 15K but that is when I start looking for stocks. 

But a lot of people will die, could be me for that fact!  However, look at Italy and in fact all of Europe it is getting worse every day I do not think anyone has an answer.  This is moving to fast to far to hard to stop it.  Trump will come to his senses but not until too late...sorry just the way it is.  Everyone better take a hard look at what is going on the hints are there to SIP but people do not want to see that fact.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 4:58pm

i not a chump fan,

but Pence has done a good job so far , to little to  late though

they seem to have a good team put together,

just need the honesty to come through,

keep Chump out of the loop,

he has'nt a clue,and lies about everything..........

Our government 

first class response.....

even though they Librels.....lol

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 5:14pm

rump defiant as White House is rebuked for coronavirus 'mess'



 


  • Donald Trump talking on a cell phone: US President Donald Trump, pictured at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on March 6, 2020, has been rebuked for his messaging on the outbreak
  •  
  • Jeremy Konyndyk wearing a suit and tie looking at the camera: Jeremy Konyndyk, pictured in 2015, said that while many were to blame for the bungled coronavirus response,
  •  
  • a car parked on the side of a building: In Seattle, coronavirus fears have emptied streets and restaurants as many residents choose to stay at home. In the northwest state, where most US fatalities from the outbreak have been reported, residents try to remain
  •  
  • Anthony S. Fauci wearing a suit and tie standing next to a fence: Anthony Fauci, Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, did not rule out entire cities being quarantined
  •  
  •  
Donald Trump talking on a cell phone: US President Donald Trump, pictured at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on March 6, 2020, has been rebuked for his messaging on the outbreak
1/6 SLIDES © JIM WATSON
US President Donald Trump, pictured at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on March 6, 2020, has been rebuked for his messaging on the outbreak
President Donald Trump defended the "perfectly coordinated" US response to the coronavirus epidemic Sunday amid heavy criticism over health cuts and strategic blunders that have failed to stem its rapid spread.


The virus has reached 30 US states, killing at least 19 people, while the American capital announced its first case Saturday and 60 million people in California and New York state were under emergency orders.

Trump, who has been accused of peddling misinformation on the outbreak, blamed the media in an early morning tweet for trying to make his government "look bad" as criticism mounted with nearly 500 cases recorded.

Pictures: COVID-19 outbreak around the world


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 5:19pm

Sorry about posts, can't seem to clean them up or delete....😊

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 5:31pm

Chump on coronavirus at CDC

.....i have a natural  ability....


to talk S..t



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"the buck stops here"

On Chumps desk.....

Don't blame CDC







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 5:38pm

I can't stop laughing.  The post arrived with a slice missing on the left.


rump is a great name for him.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 7:53pm

Trump just got nailed hard on yet another deceptive move, lol.  

Twitter flags video retweeted by President Trump as ‘manipulated media’


https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/03/08/twitter-flags-video-retweeted-by-president-trump-manipulated-media/


https://www.facebook.com/Avianflutalk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 7:57pm





Just been reading that news item,

American lady i work with said, Americans would be ashamed if they really knew what the world thinks of Chump....

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Thorne! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 9:16pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thorne! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2020 at 9:18pm

See above post for details. . . .



We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus. We moved VERY early to close borders to certain areas, which was a Godsend. V.P. is doing a great job. The Fake News Media is doing everything possible to make us look bad. Sad!

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