Ian Lipkin (CRS Buddy) and Fauci Blood on Hands?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6y8dlhoMpo

Do yourself a favor and watch the video before replying... Just remember... Who told us masks don't work...? And who on this forum exhibits integrity vs ideological rigidity? Gotta say I don't trust "experts" on this forum as far as I could throw them. Be safe!

CRS, DrPH wrote: interwebber wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6y8dlhoMpo Do yourself a favor and watch the video before replying... Just remember... Who told us masks don't work...? And who on this forum exhibits integrity vs ideological rigidity? Gotta say I don't trust "experts" on this forum as far as I could throw them. Be safe! You talkin' to me?    Masks DON'T work to protect you from COVID-19 in public.   They are somewhat effective in minimizing the snot and drool from the hoi polloi from shooting virus particles across the air with their constant coughing and sneezing, but the consumption of hospital-grade PPE for magical thinking infuriates me to no end.  If you want a mask, make one out of a bandana.   As far as that junk YouTube video, thanks.  It is possible that SARS-CoV2 was a wild-type bat virus that escaped from (or was released from) the Wuhan virology lab....this type of thing has happened many times in the past, including the escape of smallpox virus from a lab in the UK that killed a person.  However, it is unlikely that this was a deliberate plot of the Chinese or anyone else.  I'll wait for further evidence of that, which will likely not be found.  BTW, I don't know Ian Lipkin.

I agree with you about the mask, people act like they are magic.  I'm sure there are people on this forum that can wear correctly , but most people aren't like you guys.  I do know China closed Wuhan down and let their citizens fly to other countries causing the virus to spread.

At some point, folks will realize that a significant portion of transmission is from fecal/oral route, not respiratory.   Fecal/oral might even be the primary route.  That is why all the meat-plant workers are catching it, they are giving it to one another via  bathrooms & lunchrooms, NOT by working closely on the processing lines.  (I consult to poultry & meat operations like ConAgra). 

https://www.clinicaladvisor.com/home/topics/gastroenterology-information-center/diarrhea-covid19-oral-fecal-transmission-route/

The fact that diarrhea is a symptom in the disease course of some patients with 2019 novel coronavirus disease (COVID-19) highlights the importance of adhering to preventative measures to control orofecal transmission between patients and healthcare workers. This is according to a review published in Clinical Gastroenterology and Hepatology.

I have a hard time believing that healthcare workers are that abysmal at handwashing during Covid 19, that fecal oral is a significant route of transmission for them.  I, sadly, get your point regarding meat processing plants in some respects. The workers there may not be the best educated folks.  

Yet, I find myself doubting that handwashing is not taking place.  The work they do is so messy.  Fat and blood sticking to your gloves, sweating inside those gloves...no. They wash their hands a lot, just like I would... because gross. Nobody is walking around like that when they go on break.  There has to be some policy about handwashing before returning to the line.  No reputable business wants their products tied to a C. DIFF situation.  So, sorry, not believing this.

FluMom wrote: Ok so that makes me sick Chuck...don't people wash their hands well after going to the bathroom working in a FOOD plant or in a hospital?     Ugh GROSS! My son now has to wear a mask due to the fact 2 managers have Covid.  He calls me and says "F^^K Mom"  I am touching my face more with the stupid mask on than ever before!  All this is necessary to keep people from spreading virus but please get masks that fit!!!  My son had to take what was given to him.  Got to talk to him today about masks and how to wear!

Exactly.  The food processing environment is super-wet (water is constantly spraying from nozzles and hoses, and the air is cold & super-saturated), so I doubt that droplet nuclei from humans has much of a chance to spread very far. 

I work with the poultry industry in Minnesota, most of those workers are either Hispanic, Hmong (Asian) or, lately, Somali immigrants.  They don't speak English well, and don't understand principles of social distancing etc.  These folks live two to three families in a single house, drive to work together in crowded cars, work like slaves for sub-standard wages, and do it all over again, 5 days/week plus overtime.  It is heartbreaking, but these are the only jobs they can find.  Americans don't want these jobs, they are horrible. 

As far as hand hygiene, once a person goes No. 2 and wipes butt, you have to flush the loo and open the stall door.  CONTAMINATION.  Then, you have to turn on the sink and use soap.  CONTAMINATION.  After all of this, you must dry hands and leave the bathroom.  CONTAMINATION.  I'm hospital-trained in infection control and know exactly how to minimize contamination and avoid these surfaces, but most folks just touch & grab away.  

Beef plants are worse than poultry, they are very dangerous.  The "kill floor" is where live cattle are killed with a blow to the head by a special hammer, and then they are bled, disemboweled, and carved up.  Workers wear heavy chain-mail vests, use razor-sharp knives three feet long, and work at a breakneck speed.  There is blood, guts and water everywhere.  Pork plants are the worst of all. 

I'd go 100% vegetarian but I like certain meats too much, if Beyond Meat or other companies become more cost-effective, I'll go that way.  

EdwinSm, wrote: The link is long gone, but there was a report from one UK meat processing firm stating that among the costs related to keeping a plant safe in the time of Coronavirus they would have "to pay the staff enough for them to be willing to follow the safety rules".    I guess that if we want more safety in meat handling we will have to expect the costs to rise.   If we as consumers demand the cheap meat then processing companies need to cut costs.   While I want to blame processing firms, I know that I am part of the problem.    A local farmer supplies the local shop with meat - grass feed beef etc, but it is about three times more expensive than the mass produced stuff, which gives an idea of what costs could rise to if we need to move away from the massive processing plants.

Thank you, this is a very well-thought-out post.  

You are exactly correct on all counts.  The line workers in these plants are basically indentured servants like in the old days of factory towns in the USA, they cannot afford to leave the job since they have no other employment prospects, and are literally worked to death. 

These workers are in the mold of past American immigrants - my grandparents came to America from Slovakia in the early 1900s, and made their way to the giant Hormel packing houses in Chicago.  

The children of these immigrant workers often excel in school, causing resentment among the native white populations in Georgia, Minnesota, Wisconsin etc.  In St. Cloud MN, the town now has many black Africans from Somalia, and their women wear long Islamic dress and full face veils.  Needless to say, the old-time German and Norwegian residents are not entirely comfortable with this.  

Indeed, the era of cheap meat is likely going to go away, and this is likely for the better for humanity.  Confined animal feedlot operations (CAFO) are some of the worse polluting industries, and the greenhouse gases from manure are a major source of climate change.  COVID-19 seem likely to cause many fundamental changes to society; if we live long enough, we may appreciate them.

Sorry but my mom is 97 and eats meat so some do well eating meat.  Vegan is just too much thinking to make all that food with only veggies and it does not taste the same.

I take a low dose anti-inflammatory only, and that is due to damage (cars, horses, climbing, even getting shot - only an air rifle - but a high power one - it cut tendons).  I'm 60 in October.  I often eat veggie and vegan, for health and variety.  I keep the meat down, the red meat way down and adore fish.  For ethical reasons I will not eat halal.  Death comes to all  life, it's inevitable; being tortured is not.