Ultimate mortality number?

I don't believe you can compare SARS 1,or MERS,with Covid19,

Both sort of faded away.......

I'm stuck in the middle on whether C19 was lab created,

The rate it mutates is amazing,but the flu virus is the same,

But how do you prove that,and what would be the point ?

After all was there a witch hunt after the last swine flu mini pandemic or the MERS,/SARS1 outbreaks....no..... why not ?

Thats like blaming a co-worker for you getting "their" cold...!!!!! So childish......

All governments will have a covert bio technology going on, never mind the legitimate overt ones....

Accidents happen....!!!!!

Take care all 😷😉....

The people who are disabled and are not going to be able to participate in life as they used to know it are legion.  I know several myself.  Some won't be able to work.  As people who are unable to work affect the US productivity and tax indexes, I believe many "powder-puffers" will be revising.

https://calloutsandshoutoutsblog.blogspot.com/2021/05/fool-if-you-think-its-over.html

So just as some of were saying all along this really was a powderpuff From WHo For comparison, the case fatality rate with seasonal flu in the United States is less than 0.1% (1 death per every 1,000 cases). Mortality rate for SARS was 10%, and for MERS 34%. VirusDeath Rate Wuhan Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) 2%* SARS 9.6% MERS 34% Swine Flu 0.02%

I think the undercount is far greater than 905,000.  When I was in the hospital, i saw more death than I care to talk about.  Then, the nursing home where I was, had like 64 deaths but reported only  49 Covid deaths.  Do the math, I saw so many people die, it was so heartbreaking.   Parents were dying away from kids and it  was the saddest thing to see.  I estimate death to be 1.5 million at the low end and 2 million  at the high end.  I lost two classmates and six more were so sick that they were in the ICU.  

We need to realize that the virus is not over.  WE will need constant booster shots.... 

ME163 

Yep Doc's always there with sound advise,

 Up to the listener, 

If they Want to hear 

what's been said!!!!!!....

I’ve known Chuck through AFT for a long time, and we PM each other regularly. You’re going to have to work awful hard to make me believe he’s anything but the genuine article. His insights and experience have been invaluable to us in the past.

kaye kaye wrote: I call bullshit

Of course you do because you've never been involved with any of the intelligence agencies.  I have had, to a limited degree, involvement both professionally and socially.  Clearly CRS has ties closer than any of us.  

Apples and oranges.

Taxman100 wrote: We still don't know what the long term problems this illness could cause let along how long the immunity will last.

You're absolutely right there. There are increasingly frequent reports of people who've only had a mild case of Covid being left with heart damage and lung scarring. It's far too early to write this disease off as a mild inconvenience.

There seems to be some common sense recommendations for re-opening if people will follow the instructions and not put others at risk just to make a political points. It's nonsense how grow up adults are acting over wearing masks, what a bunch of cry babies.  

We still don't know what the long term problems this illness could cause let along how long the immunity will last.  We have the best universities and smartest people in the world in the US  and we have a political party that goes on gut feel when it comes to science.  

Fauci is right, let the CDC make the recommendations and open when we have the testing and tracing in place. There is no need for 50% oi the population to get this illness just so people can get a hair cut or go to the movies.  Glad I live in a state that has their act together WA.   

AI wrote: WitchMisspelled wrote: AI wrote: What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level.  AI, I say this with no malice or wish to denigrate your opinion.  However, reading CRS's posts has allowed me to put a few things together.  If CRS's credentials go as "high" as I suspect, he's one of the dudes that helps writes the policy that directors follow.  That's not to say CRS should confirm or deny this.  I'm just sayin'... You maybe right WM, however I highly suspect if that was the case he would have let everyone know, as he does shall I say have a certain penchant in that regard.

I could be completely wrong.  But, CRS has made mention of some things that add up to a direction other than just some training manager who teaches policy.   In some cases, connections should be kept quiet.  Not everyone brags about their accomplishments. Bragging reveals things that are just safer hidden under a bushel.  
  

Now now, Carbon.  Don't be so trollish!

Yes, the majority of the world thinks the GOO hilarious, but you still have to be polite to the rest of America, especially those smart enough to be here on AFT.

Smack wrist!

Well actually I'm English....

And speak with a Birmingham accent.... 

Been here 33 years best move we ever made 

And how do you know I don't know anything about American politics,

I just like to wind you rednecks up lol

Because the whole world is laughing at the Orange faced clown.....LMAO

So do you agree 

That your Chump administration has Failed? 

Or do you blame everyone else like you leader? 

America is approximately 20x the population of Australia .

We have just had our 100th death

20x 100 =2000

So why if your administration is sooooo great 

Why is your death 91,000 ?and ours 100? 

I would like an explanation thats all,

 I could ask the same question to technophobe about why the UK's is so high, but I know Techno,blames the governments response,why don't you man up and and call a spade a spade.....

Instead of changing the narrative as your best mate chump does and blaming, China,CNN,CDC,FAUCI 

talk about WEAK 

CHUMP IS THE WEAKEST LEADER THE USA HAS EVER HAD....

what a loser....

SACK HIM.....

Back on topic,

Well.done AI 

Changed the narrative again, 

Aka Chump

But the

 FACT OF THE MATTER IS 

CHUMP IS AN ABJECT FAILURE

HE AND HE ALONE

IS RESPONSIBLE

FOR SO FAR 

91,000 and counting

AMERICAN DEATHS.....

This orange faced clown ,

Will say,blame anyone for his failure....

1. THE BUCK STOPS ON HIS DESK

SACK HIM, SACK HIM 

SACK THE LIAR....

.

CRS, DrPH wrote: AI wrote: CRS, DrPH wrote: AI wrote: CRS, DrPH wrote: AI wrote: What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level.  I am Deputy Sector Chief for Healthcare/Public Health to the FBI through a private industry alliance.  I attend classified briefings and have a security clearance.   The guy you quoted is a JD politician, no science/medical background.  Typical DC liteweight figure, now working for the Hudson Institute.  *yawn* Very influential indeed.    Morrison holds a Juris Doctor from George Washington University and a BA in Political Science from the University of Minnesota.[10] Take Trump's word for it also.  He is obviously so competent, unlike Pres. Obama, who successfully fended off two pandemics and multiple terrorist threats.  Curious how did Obama fend off two pandemics without the NSC pandemic unit? It wasn't formed until the final months of his presidency, 7 years after H1N1 started and 2 years after the Ebola epidemic. And you do remember who was Obama's Ebola czar right? Robert Klain another JD  Not an Obama fan, huh?   We were extremely busy back then, dealing with ISIL (rookies like you call them ISIS), cyberthreats from Russia (remember them?) and China, restive N. Korea etc.  Syria was using poison gas on its rebels, Obama should have nuked Assad in his palace.  He didn't because of Russian bluster.  I don't know Klain, but he was very experienced in political realms and seems to have been competent enough, unlike anyone in Trump's sphere (Fauci excluded).  So one JD appointed to a position by Trump is bad and one JD appointed to a position by Obama is good when the common denominators are both dealt with potential pandemics and both were JD's not MD's. Your political bias is astounding, especially given your previous post about JD politicians without medical/science degrees. And you didn't answer the question you danced and deflected all the way around it with irrelevant information. Obama's JD, Ron Klain was an accomplished political manager who was Chief of Staff for Vice Presidents Al Gore and Joe Biden.   Your guy Morrison is a political hack who now sucks the teat at the neocon Hudson Institute in DC.  Obama's response to pandemics was much more effective than Trump's, who has killed more Americans than the Viet Nam war....and counting.  Try again.  Get a new name, AI is only half right.

And you know the anti pandemic team in the NSC was merged with 2 other directorates into one and renamed but with the exact same mission. And since you were in government at least to some degree as you claim, you know about government redundancy and you know they were not the only government agency tasked with that mission or at least to have that aspect included in their mission.

AI wrote: CRS, DrPH wrote: AI wrote: CRS, DrPH wrote: AI wrote: What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level.  I am Deputy Sector Chief for Healthcare/Public Health to the FBI through a private industry alliance.  I attend classified briefings and have a security clearance.   The guy you quoted is a JD politician, no science/medical background.  Typical DC liteweight figure, now working for the Hudson Institute.  *yawn* Very influential indeed.    Morrison holds a Juris Doctor from George Washington University and a BA in Political Science from the University of Minnesota.[10] Take Trump's word for it also.  He is obviously so competent, unlike Pres. Obama, who successfully fended off two pandemics and multiple terrorist threats.  Curious how did Obama fend off two pandemics without the NSC pandemic unit? It wasn't formed until the final months of his presidency, 7 years after H1N1 started and 2 years after the Ebola epidemic. And you do remember who was Obama's Ebola czar right? Robert Klain another JD  Not an Obama fan, huh?   We were extremely busy back then, dealing with ISIL (rookies like you call them ISIS), cyberthreats from Russia (remember them?) and China, restive N. Korea etc.  Syria was using poison gas on its rebels, Obama should have nuked Assad in his palace.  He didn't because of Russian bluster.  I don't know Klain, but he was very experienced in political realms and seems to have been competent enough, unlike anyone in Trump's sphere (Fauci excluded).  So one JD appointed to a position by Trump is bad and one JD appointed to a position by Obama is good when the common denominators are both dealt with potential pandemics and both were JD's not MD's. Your political bias is astounding, especially given your previous post about JD politicians without medical/science degrees. And you didn't answer the question you danced and deflected all the way around it with irrelevant information.

Obama's JD, Ron Klain was an accomplished political manager who was Chief of Staff for Vice Presidents Al Gore and Joe Biden.   Your guy Morrison is a political hack who now sucks the teat at the neocon Hudson Institute in DC. 

Obama's response to pandemics was much more effective than Trump's, who has killed more Americans than the Viet Nam war....and counting.  Try again.  Get a new name, AI is only half right.

AI wrote: CRS, DrPH wrote: AI wrote: What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level.  I am Deputy Sector Chief for Healthcare/Public Health to the FBI through a private industry alliance.  I attend classified briefings and have a security clearance.   The guy you quoted is a JD politician, no science/medical background.  Typical DC liteweight figure, now working for the Hudson Institute.  *yawn* Very influential indeed.    Morrison holds a Juris Doctor from George Washington University and a BA in Political Science from the University of Minnesota.[10] Take Trump's word for it also.  He is obviously so competent, unlike Pres. Obama, who successfully fended off two pandemics and multiple terrorist threats.  Curious how did Obama fend off two pandemics without the NSC pandemic unit? It wasn't formed until the final months of his presidency, 7 years after H1N1 started and 2 years after the Ebola epidemic. And you do remember who was Obama's Ebola czar right? Robert Klain another JD

Not an Obama fan, huh?  

We were extremely busy back then, dealing with ISIL (rookies like you call them ISIS), cyberthreats from Russia (remember them?) and China, restive N. Korea etc.  Syria was using poison gas on its rebels, Obama should have nuked Assad in his palace.  He didn't because of Russian bluster. 

I don't know Klain, but he was very experienced in political realms and seems to have been competent enough, unlike anyone in Trump's sphere (Fauci excluded). 

AI wrote: What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level.

Dr. Holdren is a colleague of mine.   I was particularly involved in the Deepwater Horizon Oil Disaster, when the soon-to-be-dead Rush Limbaugh said that the US Government were sending "SWAT" teams to the gulf (we were sending SWOT teams, = Strengths/Weaknesses/Opportunities/Threats).

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/05/sabotage-conspiracy-and-other-ways-to-spin-the-oil-spill/56347/

AI wrote: What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level.

I am Deputy Sector Chief for Healthcare/Public Health to the FBI through a private industry alliance.  I attend classified briefings and have a security clearance.  

The guy you quoted is a JD politician, no science/medical background.  Typical DC liteweight figure, now working for the Hudson Institute.  *yawn* Very influential indeed.   

Morrison holds a Juris Doctor from George Washington University and a BA in Political Science from the University of Minnesota.^[10]

Take Trump's word for it also.  He is obviously so competent, unlike Pres. Obama, who successfully fended off two pandemics and multiple terrorist threats. 

AI wrote: CRS, DrPH wrote: AI wrote: CRS, DrPH wrote: AI wrote: CRS, DrPH wrote: Technophobe wrote: Carbon is exaggerating to make a point (I believe).  Trump is in no way responsible for all those deaths, past or future.  But the policies of his administration ARE responsible for some increase.  I don't know exactly how many - no one does. With the exception of Joscinda Ardern, I don't think there is a political leader without responsibility for some.  This was never going to have been an easy bug to battle.  But most politicians listen to their critics, it helps them learn.  For instance, our Prime Minister, Boris, started out on a DISASTEROUS course.  He changed tack (rather too late) when a group of scientists lobbied him.   If Trump hears a critic, he goes ballistic!  He fires them, walks out, refuses to talk, cuts funds and even threatens war - whatever option he has for each one.  When covid 19 first appeared, no one knew anything about it.  Trump is learning slower than most, (because his ego is so fragile - I presume) and that is costing extra lives.  It will cost more. In his defence, America is an unusual case.  The monetarist, law-of-the-jungle system and lack of healthcare, coupled with the national obsession with imagined freedoms, don't make this case an easy one to treat.  But he does bear a proportion of the blame for a proportion of the cases and therefore a proportion of the deaths. I would argue that Pres. Trump DOES bear direct responsibility for these deaths, in the US and globally.   I work in professional public health, and have extensive training in pandemic science (in PH, we have largely been focused on H5N1 bird flu, which is not the priority I was advocating).  Under Pres. Obama, we had two "pandemic" situations - H1N1 swine flu in 2009, which was a true pandemic, and a large-scale Ebola outbreak in West Africa in 2014, which threatened to become a pandemic.  The US had a robust pandemic response team in the National Security Council and throughout government, but Pres. Trump though it was all a waste of money and dismantled much of it just before COVID-19 exploded.  https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/trump-obama-coronavirus-pandemic-response We should have kept our pandemic epidemiologist boots on the ground in China, but Trump brought nearly all of them home.  AFT members were discussing the Wuhan outbreak before many in government addressed it, and this is criminal.   I would like to see Trump impeached and tried for negligent homicide.    Well this guy was the senior director of that aspect of the NSC and he directly refutes what you claim in regard to the NSC. His credentials are far better than yours and I believe him over you and Vanityfair. And he's smart enough to know and state the following. It matters because when people play politics in the middle of a crisis, we are all less safe. We are less safe because public servants are distracted when they are dragged into politics. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/ Bah.  The article you cite says this:  It is true that the Trump administration has seen fit to shrink the NSC staff.  But the bloat that occurred under the previous administration clearly needed a correction. (I think we are seeing the price we are now paying for clearing out this "bloat" of career scientists and intelligence specialists = nearly 100,000 dead in the US and counting.  CRS, DrPH) Defense Secretary Robert Gates, congressional oversight committees and members of the Obama administration itself all agreed the NSC was too large and too operationally focused (a departure from its traditional role coordinating executive branch activity). (FYI, I am personal friends with David and Susan Axelrod, they don't agree with this statement.  "Too large" is subjective, Trump didn't see the value of having preparedness people on staff.) As The Post reported in 2015, from the Clinton administration to the Obama administration’s second term, the NSC’s staff “had quadrupled in size, to nearly 400 people.” That is why Trump began streamlining the NSC staff in 2017.(The NSC staff had grown because of the global Swine Flu pandemic in 2009; massive Ebola outbreak in West Africa, 2014; and various threats of bioterrorism from the Islamic State and other actors.  Trump didn't show any interest in the briefings given by the Obama administration).  You are incorrect.  CRS, DrPH No you'r saying someone who actually held the position on the NSC is wrong and who would be more in the know than you and who's credentials eclipse your's by a far ways. That's who you are saying is wrong the author of that article, not me.  I don't know who that jerk is, and everyone in DC has their own agenda.  I do work with the FBI Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate and know more than you do.  Just judge the results - Trump Administration downplayed the Obama Administration's warnings for pandemics and did typical corporate downsizing stuff.  "We don't know what these people do, so get rid of them."  Result?  Approaching 100,000 preventable casualties.   I'm not impressed, Trump should be impeached for negligent manslaughter.   This is my friend Dave:  https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/1255985213647265795 LOL again it's not about me, I didn't write the article. But again he was several, well more than several levels above you and actually a senior director on the NSC. So his direct knowledge of what is needed and required would of course be based on actual working experience at that level.  This is my friend Bob https://twitter.com/SpongeBob

This is one of my credentials, please share yours.  This was managed by the FBI WMD Directorate.  

The NSC guy is in the Trump tank.  Trump is the boss of the NSC and he screwed up remarkably.  What may have looked like a good idea in 2016 is a disaster in 2020.  Everyone in DC has an opinion & is in a position to grab a job/write a book.  I don't know this guy, never heard of him, and Trump owns every death in the USA. 

p.s. say hi to Spongebob for me.

AI wrote: CRS, DrPH wrote: AI wrote: CRS, DrPH wrote: Technophobe wrote: Carbon is exaggerating to make a point (I believe).  Trump is in no way responsible for all those deaths, past or future.  But the policies of his administration ARE responsible for some increase.  I don't know exactly how many - no one does. With the exception of Joscinda Ardern, I don't think there is a political leader without responsibility for some.  This was never going to have been an easy bug to battle.  But most politicians listen to their critics, it helps them learn.  For instance, our Prime Minister, Boris, started out on a DISASTEROUS course.  He changed tack (rather too late) when a group of scientists lobbied him.   If Trump hears a critic, he goes ballistic!  He fires them, walks out, refuses to talk, cuts funds and even threatens war - whatever option he has for each one.  When covid 19 first appeared, no one knew anything about it.  Trump is learning slower than most, (because his ego is so fragile - I presume) and that is costing extra lives.  It will cost more. In his defence, America is an unusual case.  The monetarist, law-of-the-jungle system and lack of healthcare, coupled with the national obsession with imagined freedoms, don't make this case an easy one to treat.  But he does bear a proportion of the blame for a proportion of the cases and therefore a proportion of the deaths. I would argue that Pres. Trump DOES bear direct responsibility for these deaths, in the US and globally.   I work in professional public health, and have extensive training in pandemic science (in PH, we have largely been focused on H5N1 bird flu, which is not the priority I was advocating).  Under Pres. Obama, we had two "pandemic" situations - H1N1 swine flu in 2009, which was a true pandemic, and a large-scale Ebola outbreak in West Africa in 2014, which threatened to become a pandemic.  The US had a robust pandemic response team in the National Security Council and throughout government, but Pres. Trump though it was all a waste of money and dismantled much of it just before COVID-19 exploded.  https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/trump-obama-coronavirus-pandemic-response We should have kept our pandemic epidemiologist boots on the ground in China, but Trump brought nearly all of them home.  AFT members were discussing the Wuhan outbreak before many in government addressed it, and this is criminal.   I would like to see Trump impeached and tried for negligent homicide.    Well this guy was the senior director of that aspect of the NSC and he directly refutes what you claim in regard to the NSC. His credentials are far better than yours and I believe him over you and Vanityfair. And he's smart enough to know and state the following. It matters because when people play politics in the middle of a crisis, we are all less safe. We are less safe because public servants are distracted when they are dragged into politics. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/ Bah.  The article you cite says this:  It is true that the Trump administration has seen fit to shrink the NSC staff.  But the bloat that occurred under the previous administration clearly needed a correction. (I think we are seeing the price we are now paying for clearing out this "bloat" of career scientists and intelligence specialists = nearly 100,000 dead in the US and counting.  CRS, DrPH) Defense Secretary Robert Gates, congressional oversight committees and members of the Obama administration itself all agreed the NSC was too large and too operationally focused (a departure from its traditional role coordinating executive branch activity). (FYI, I am personal friends with David and Susan Axelrod, they don't agree with this statement.  "Too large" is subjective, Trump didn't see the value of having preparedness people on staff.) As The Post reported in 2015, from the Clinton administration to the Obama administration’s second term, the NSC’s staff “had quadrupled in size, to nearly 400 people.” That is why Trump began streamlining the NSC staff in 2017.(The NSC staff had grown because of the global Swine Flu pandemic in 2009; massive Ebola outbreak in West Africa, 2014; and various threats of bioterrorism from the Islamic State and other actors.  Trump didn't show any interest in the briefings given by the Obama administration).  You are incorrect.  CRS, DrPH No you'r saying someone who actually held the position on the NSC is wrong and who would be more in the know than you and who's credentials eclipse your's by a far ways. That's who you are saying is wrong the author of that article, not me.

I don't know who that jerk is, and everyone in DC has their own agenda.  I do work with the FBI Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate and know more than you do.  Just judge the results - Trump Administration downplayed the Obama Administration's warnings for pandemics and did typical corporate downsizing stuff.  "We don't know what these people do, so get rid of them."  Result?  Approaching 100,000 preventable casualties.  

I'm not impressed, Trump should be impeached for negligent manslaughter.  

This is my friend Dave:  https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/1255985213647265795

AI wrote: CRS, DrPH wrote: Technophobe wrote: Carbon is exaggerating to make a point (I believe).  Trump is in no way responsible for all those deaths, past or future.  But the policies of his administration ARE responsible for some increase.  I don't know exactly how many - no one does. With the exception of Joscinda Ardern, I don't think there is a political leader without responsibility for some.  This was never going to have been an easy bug to battle.  But most politicians listen to their critics, it helps them learn.  For instance, our Prime Minister, Boris, started out on a DISASTEROUS course.  He changed tack (rather too late) when a group of scientists lobbied him.   If Trump hears a critic, he goes ballistic!  He fires them, walks out, refuses to talk, cuts funds and even threatens war - whatever option he has for each one.  When covid 19 first appeared, no one knew anything about it.  Trump is learning slower than most, (because his ego is so fragile - I presume) and that is costing extra lives.  It will cost more. In his defence, America is an unusual case.  The monetarist, law-of-the-jungle system and lack of healthcare, coupled with the national obsession with imagined freedoms, don't make this case an easy one to treat.  But he does bear a proportion of the blame for a proportion of the cases and therefore a proportion of the deaths. I would argue that Pres. Trump DOES bear direct responsibility for these deaths, in the US and globally.   I work in professional public health, and have extensive training in pandemic science (in PH, we have largely been focused on H5N1 bird flu, which is not the priority I was advocating).  Under Pres. Obama, we had two "pandemic" situations - H1N1 swine flu in 2009, which was a true pandemic, and a large-scale Ebola outbreak in West Africa in 2014, which threatened to become a pandemic.  The US had a robust pandemic response team in the National Security Council and throughout government, but Pres. Trump though it was all a waste of money and dismantled much of it just before COVID-19 exploded.  https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/trump-obama-coronavirus-pandemic-response We should have kept our pandemic epidemiologist boots on the ground in China, but Trump brought nearly all of them home.  AFT members were discussing the Wuhan outbreak before many in government addressed it, and this is criminal.   I would like to see Trump impeached and tried for negligent homicide.    Well this guy was the senior director of that aspect of the NSC and he directly refutes what you claim in regard to the NSC. His credentials are far better than yours and I believe him over you and Vanityfair. And he's smart enough to know and state the following. It matters because when people play politics in the middle of a crisis, we are all less safe. We are less safe because public servants are distracted when they are dragged into politics. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

Bah.  The article you cite says this: 

It is true that the Trump administration has seen fit to shrink the NSC staff. 

But the bloat that occurred under the previous administration clearly needed a correction. (I think we are seeing the price we are now paying for clearing out this "bloat" of career scientists and intelligence specialists = nearly 100,000 dead in the US and counting.  CRS, DrPH)

Defense Secretary Robert Gates, congressional oversight committees and members of the Obama administration itself all agreed the NSC was too large and too operationally focused (a departure from its traditional role coordinating executive branch activity). (FYI, I am personal friends with the Axelrods, they don't agree with this statement.  "Too large" is subjective, Trump didn't see the value of having preparedness people on staff.  Now, maybe, he knows.)

As The Post reported in 2015, from the Clinton administration to the Obama administration’s second term, the NSC’s staff “had quadrupled in size, to nearly 400 people.” That is why Trump began streamlining the NSC staff in 2017.(The NSC staff had grown because of the global Swine Flu pandemic in 2009; massive Ebola outbreak in West Africa in 2014; and various threats of bioterrorism from the Islamic State and other actors.  I was working on all of these with the FBI and DHS.  Trump didn't show any interest in the briefings given by the Obama administration).  

You are incorrect.  CRS, DrPH

Technophobe wrote: There are still a few who would have caught it and died even without a lack of leadership.  Even New Zealand had a death.  I confess, the toll is MASSIVELY higher than it could have been and the current policies and (I don't know what to call it; it's not leadership) caused that.  I still can't put a precise figure on it - perhaps 'orders of magnitude' rather than 'percentage increase', but still nothing precise.  AND I LIKE PRECISE!

You are getting precise information, Techno.  My original calculation of 2 M US deaths was based upon what we knew at the time (January 2020) of case fatality rate as reported from China, along with rough estimates of transmission rates in the general population.  I came up with 2.0 M and the Brits came up with 2.2 M.  

https://www.hpnonline.com/infection-prevention/screening-surveillance/article/21130206/covid19-predicted-to-infect-81-of-us-population-cause-22-million-deaths-in-us

I now say "1 M" because little is being done to prevent further cases.  We have more people immune from either surviving hospitalization or enduring infection without serious consequences (Prince Charles), so that reduces the pool of vulnerable patients.  Also, once you die, you are not part of the equation anymore.  

I don't know about the UK, where I once lived and have many friends, but it doesn't sound like you guys are doing all that well.  In the USA, all the damn rednecks want their saloons and hair salons open again, so we will have a nice surge of cases.  This is already happening in good old Texas, and states like Wisconsin, Iowa and others shall follow. 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/Massive-jump-in-Texas-COVID-19-cases-15275484.php

Texas reported 1,801 new COVID-19 cases on Saturday — the biggest single-day jump in cases since the pandemic began.

A growing outbreak in the Texas Panhandle is a big reason for the surge in cases. More than 700 new cases were reported out of Amarillo on Saturday with Texas Gov. Greg Abbott warning those numbers will continue to climb as the state increases testing in that hot spot.  

(This is the new Republican lie - that cases are going up because we are testing more.  The increases in mortality blow a HUGE hole in that lie.  I'm just sitting back and watching, continuing to isolate at home and monitoring the Internet chatter.  Be safe and well, Charles)