Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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SheriAnne I can't apologise for FluMom, but I can for not managing to prevent her outburst. I am sorry that bit of nastiness was there for you to read. It was offensive, divisive and racist. I appologise again. Although I can't in any way condone her language, I believe FluMom spoke in the 'heat of the moment' and I do not presume to fully understand all the underlying drives which prompted her to do it, maybe even against her own better judgement. From the other side of the racial divide it can be hard to understand the deep hurt a 'throway line' can cause. Her choice of words was abhorrent; that does not mean she, herself is. She has been reprimanded. Please could we now forgive and move on? Please also forgive me for my failure to prevent it. I am truly sorry. |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
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WillobyBrat
Admin Group Joined: January 21 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 2080 |
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Oh Dear! So caucasians do not understand racism, WitchMisspelled? Let me tell you something, all of you: I will be 76 years old in a couple of months and I am genetically an Irish celt. My nation of origin was conquered by the Anglo Saxon English approximately 400 years ago. We were massacared, forbidden our native language, forbidden our religion, forbidden education and then teased for being stupid, tortued and executed for resistance to our overlords and finally our population was halved by fammine induced by the actions of the British rulers. In my lifetime, I have been called "Bog Irish", "Effing Paddy", "Thick Mick" and "Bloody cat-lick" (even though I am not one) and repetitavely discriminated against and been confronted with signs saying "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish"* When applying for housing and jobs. Most of my friends are black, brown, oriental and of foreign origin in General. I was brought up in New Zealand from a toddler until I was 9 1/2. I still choke up and get tears in my eyes when I look at news of earthquakes and the recent shootings that happened in Christchurch. I was forced to lose my New Zealand accent when I came out of the Air Force by my family and circumstance. My closest friends still call me Kiwi. My dark skinned friends (Tee Hee) call me Honkey and when the lights came on in the local pub near where I used to live, after a power outage, they screamed and threw their hands over their eyes and made remarks about being blinded by the reflection from my skin. I got my own back, by telling them to get up off of their lazy arses and get me a pint of Guinness before I had them whipped and sent back to the cotton fields. I have put my life on the line for those very men during a tunnel leak where we were working, that could have drowned us all. When I collapsed at work with an ulcer, it was one of those black friends who picked me up like a child and ran 100 yards to the ambulance with me - UP SEVERAL FLIGHTS OF STAIRS! So, It is not what you say that matters. It is context and intent. I don't hate the English I do however refer to them as "Saxon Bastards" etc. when their politicians make stupid tactless and uncaring statements, or actions. Fortunately that is no longer quite so common. So, lets all thicken our skins up a little and try to behave in a more gentlemanly/ladylike fashion. As KiwiMum suggested. * My father became great friends with a black man who found him laughing at this sign outside a rooming house. "What is so funny about that? asked his future friend. "I'm Irish. At least you come before the dog." he replied. |
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I like Ike
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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WillobyBrat. What part of "vast majority" do you fail to understand? Don't put words in my mouth. It's not something I will tolerate. |
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SheriAnn
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 04 2020 Status: Offline Points: 415 |
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Thank you all, I appreciate the sentiments. I am glad to know that the elephant in the room has been addressed. I have in my life prided myself on calling out things that I know are wrong, so I’m glad that we can all agree that it was inappropriate. WillobyBrat, you are condoning blatant racism simply because that’s the way it’s always been. Even if the motive or intent behind it isn’t malicious, the language is still decisive, and it normalizes these words, so it is more casually used in malicious situations. I’ll never be able to understand the challenges that a person of color has to live through. I do know as a woman, I have been talked over by men, personally and professionally, ignored when I speak only for men to turn around and act as if my idea was theirs. I have been the victim of sexual assault and abuse on more than one occasion. One time I was overpowered in a kitchen when I was 19, pinned down in the floor because I had been flirting with the guy and he thought that was what I wanted. I kept telling him no and finally he listened, but not until he had digitally assaulted me without consent. It physically hurt. I didn’t want it, I told him no, he didn’t listen. He was friends with everyone I was friends with so I had to act like it didn’t bother me to not make anyone else uncomfortable. Women used to be expected to silently endure these things because men knew better. I couldn’t imagine living back then when it was normalized. When women didn’t get to vote, they didn’t get a say in their lives. I was raised in a different world and I learned to stand up for what is wrong. I know my experiences are not the same as a person of color, and I don’t know what they have had to endure, but I can be an ally. Something as simple as telling a black person that “they don’t talk like a black person” or “how great you were able to get into a good school” while they sound harmless, like a compliment, they are still perpetuating racism. Just like when I was pinned down on that kitchen floor, I’m sure he doesn’t think of himself as a rapist. He didn’t actually rape me, right? He just shoved his hands down my pants without my consent because he thought he knew what I wanted. He didn’t. I know this information wasn’t asked for and probably won’t do anything much to help, but we alll need to do our part to make life better for everyone. |
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Albert
Admin Joined: April 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 47746 |
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We're all on the same page around here. Flumom tends to be candid, and when upset, and when possibly mixed at *happy hour time* in this case lol, she made a very bad mistake out of anger. I'm not convinced she is a racist, but she definitely went WAY overboard in making her point. We all screw up, and no-doubt this was a very bad one. I've never known her to be racist, but she is definitely known for saying things to get her point across. Having said that, of course there is still no excuse for it, regardless of maybe having a drink and in a bad mood, lol. That is just speculation on my part. I know I have said some off-the-wall things after a few too many. Anyway - we removed her as Moderator. FM has also been a valuable member here for many years, and still not convinced she is racist. We never know the stress each person is going through in life, and sometimes anger and stress boils over and we say things we weren't even close to meaning. Best to all, A
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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I find everybody is a racist in some form or another. Wether you mock someone because they,are, Tall,Short,Fat,Thin,wearing glasses,Bald ,Red hair,Blond hair,Disabled..... Black,White ,Asian,..... Some people will always pick on the underdog..... Mainly because they feel so CRAP about their own NONE ,life And picking on someone else makes them feel so much better...... We are all a mixture Just go and have your DNA tested. You may be supprised at what you are made of...... After all we all APES....some just not evolved as others.... I'd rather be a hybrid, not and inbred....... |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29670 |
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The one voice that's missing here is Flumom's. Everyone else is busy apologising except her. And she really should. I don't accept in the "heat of the moment" as an excuse because if that was the case, then, when she had calmed down, she would have edited her post and removed the racist comment. She didn't do that, nor has she explained herself or apologized. I can't see how we can move on from this until Flumom has accepted responsibility and apologized. If she doesn't then we're all just saying that it's fine and people can get away with it. And that's not right. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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Dont hold your breath on that one.... She will never apologise, never think she is in the wrong...... THAT TAKES A BIG PERSON.... She will disappear......
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29670 |
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Carbon, you were absolutely right. No apology and no one else calling for one. Let's just brush it under the carpet and let it go without anyone having to stand up and take responsibility for it. This kind of attitude makes my blood boil and I'm not at all surprised to see the riots in Minneapolis at the moment. For far too long America has allowed racism to live and breathe, and hopefully now they will be called to account. It's unacceptable. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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The sad truth is that the U.S. hasn't been able to eradicate it since the Civil War. Further exacerbated by "Blue Entitlement". No, I am not knocking policemen. I am deriding the attitude that enables some bad apples among our finest to thrive. |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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I really don't think Carbon wants us to stop fighting racism - that really is not his style. Tell him off for being blunt, rude, or even far too personal if you wish, but he is definitely not OK with any racism at all. He speaks up for anyone he sees as getting a poor deal - often more forcefully than good manners allow. Rather, I think he meant: "Stop hounding FluMom". Not because she is exonnerated - or even forgiven, but because it is pointless and cruel. If that is the case, I agree with him. OK, so her outburst was vile; but, just for a second, put yourself in her shoes. One minute she is a respected chief moderator, the next demoted and half the site has turned on her. She did wrong. We told her off. Now drop it please. This achieves nothing except upsetting an old lady. There is way too much cruelty in the world already. Don't add to it. |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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Oh, rioting looting and arson also fall into the "unnecessary cruelty" category, but here I have more sympathy. There is a chance of change if protests are "loud" enough and America is a disgustingly racist country. Change never just happens, it has to be fought for. |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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I just meant Flumom will never come back on what's the point in talking to her? Now the rant.... I'm will never condone racism.... My son in Law is a Black man, My daughter in law ,is a woman of Colour, My mother born disabled, Some of my good friends are Gay And last but very not least my FARTHER WAS JEW the worse racist remark made to me was , "the trouble with the world is the Germans didn't kill enough of your lot off " so please never accuse me of defending racisim I was just trying to make a point that all people are bigots in some way or another, They have to be shouted down,but in doing so don't make yourself a Bigot. Try and understand ,and use examples. I Am an atheist ,as far as in concerned we all the same we ALL EVOLOVED ,FROM INTERBREEDING, NO RACE IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER. A very good friend of mine, is half Nigerian half Irish, He once said to me"you not a racist,just have opinons" Go and talk to his mother, how married a BLACK MAN in 1955,she was followed by police and told not to mix with "that sort" My father bought up in Eire, bashed by them good "CHRISTIAN" FOLKS.... SO AGAIN PLEASE DONT TALK TO ME ABOUT RACISM.... Also try migrating to another country like I did, Only to be called a POMMIE BASTARD,go back to where you belong..... No I'm not a racist, PM me and I'll give you a few phone numbers so you can confirm what I have written... And don't worry I still love ya xx Have a lovely day🖖😊 . |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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Nice Place the USA |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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TomSD
advanced Member Joined: April 24 2020 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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AI, Agree, with you that burning, and looting is not the right thing to do. But why on Tuesday were the protesters fire on with teargas and rubber bullet? When there were recent protest here in San Diego about opening and letting people go back to work the police stood by, even though individuals were breaking laws (standing in vehicles with their upper bodies were outside the sun roof as they shouted and waved at passer-by) should have been pulled over immediately, but no. How about the gun carrying people forcing there way into the capital building in Michigan? Any one arrested? Does this not seem one sided on how the police response? |
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29670 |
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It's time to arrest that police officer for racially aggravated murder and the 3 other attending officers for aiding and abetting him. If they were called to account, I suspect the looting would stop. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29670 |
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Techno, what are you talking about? I was responding to Carbons post that said she wouldn't apologise, and he was right. I don't think he's racist. Far from it. I wasn't telling him off. Re read his post, and then mine. As for him saying stop hounding Flumom, I don't think he was saying that. And as for her apologizing, I think she should. What she said was unacceptable and inexcusable. There's no getting round that. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29670 |
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Was this aimed at me? I don't think you are racist. I was simply agreeing with you that nothing more would be done about this and everyone was happy to let it slide. Perhaps it's a Southern hemisphere think, but I think you and I are the least racist people on here. I think that the kind of attitude that tolerates endemic racism within a population is exactly why people are rioting in Minneapolis right now. What they need to do is to arrest those officers and charge them with murder because that's what it was. Thank heavens for mobile phones and that people can record what happens and post it. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29670 |
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I hear what you're saying but just look at the line I'm quoting from you. What she said was incredibly damaging and unacceptable and I'd argue that yes, there is way too much cruelty in the world already but also that allowing someone to get away with such behaviour is adding to it. I'm not calling for Flumom to be hounded off this site, but an adult should stand up and admit their mistakes. They should take responsibility for them and then apologise for them. Everyone else is busy apologising for her but as yet we haven't heard from Flumom, and that tells me that she's not sorry for using the N word, that she doesn't think she's done anything wrong, and that secretly she was justified in doing so. That's the problem I have with this. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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No Kiwimum,not aimed at you, Just putting the record straight,as to why I'm not a racist,and maybe making others just think that are,who some how think they superior because their skin has evolved to absorb more sunlight to make vitamin D in a land without much sunlight..... Ignorance at its best..... Can't fix stupid.... 😉🖖 Disgusted at watching George Floyd, murdered on camera...... The folks there are totally justified in protesting,i don't agree with the burning and violence... But calling out armed national guard,only going to be more trouble, This is American...... "The Right to bear arms" Reap what you sow.. . |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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I can't imagine being part of a demographic that can be slowly and painfully killed on the street in broad daylight, while being filmed by multiple witnesses who are pleading with the police officers who are doing it. Maybe they should do something peaceful and see how that works, right? Maybe taking a knee during the anthem will highlight the problem. No, wait... |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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This issue has absolutely nothing to do with "The right to bear arms". This issue is about the militarization of the police. This is about "blue entitlement". A mentality that developed in "bad apples" in our finest decades ago... even before any of us were born. What happened to George Floyd has happened everywhere. Even in NYC (Eric Garner). There wasn't any rioting after Garner's death. There were organized protests. I don't know what the difference is between what's happening now and what happened then in terms of protests, except that before there were organized protests and marches in NYC, the police did not fire tear gas into the crowds. The police and local authorities did everything they could to diffuse tensions instead of just siccing police on protesters. Maybe New York educated their cops better when they militarized them than elsewhere. I just don't know. I am heartsick at what's happening in Minneapolis. The protesters, rioters and looters are destroying their own homes. From what I can see, the police did more to fan the flames than put them out. Their frustration level at the brutality they experience every day must be at a level where they just don't care anymore. I say this about both sides of the conflict. |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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I think I got the wrong end of the stick there, KiwiMum. Sorry. I can't see FluMom apologising, she probably does not even realise how offensive that post was. But, for all her faults, I'm a bit fond of her. You can accuse me of bad taste if you wish, but I am and I imagine the backlash was as bruising for her as the post itself was for some readers. It can be a hard line to walk trying to keep everyone happy. I'm exhausted! |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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I just meant ,if everyone can carry a weapon things could get out of hand real quick if the national guard start shooting, others with.... "a right to bear arms" ..... might shoot back.... maybe with better weapons than the NG.....just saying..... I find it all very sad when we fighting the WU... |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29670 |
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It's just awful isn't it? The problem is that peaceful protests make no difference. Eric Garner should have been the last black man unlawfully killed but he wasn't. All they had to do in Minneapolis was to arrest those police officers and charge at least one of them with murder, and the others with being accessories. In this day of mobile phone cameras, the police just can't get away with this sort of thing any more. The authorities - including the president - need to stand up and say that all people are equal, and mean it. There is obviously a culture in the US that doesn't believe that. That, to some extent, black people are worth slightly less than white, that they are expendable. Can you imagine what would have happened if it were four black cops killing a white man? There would have been an uproar across the whole country, starting with Trump on Twitter. At least these protests are getting the news coverage. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29670 |
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Thanks Techno. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29670 |
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That cop in Minneapolis has been charged with murder. I've started a new thread and posted the link in Latest News. Thank heavens some common sense at last. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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the phrase"looting and shooting "is new to me..... |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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Let's just hope this a Big Changing point in American society.... Something needs to change...... NEEDS A REAL LEADER TO STEP UP ..... |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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Don't hold your breath! |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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Flubergasted
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 04 2020 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2130 |
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I think the current generation of political elders has made themselves obsolete. They are too old to change, and they are set in their ways. I see them the same way I see my dementia patients. You can appreciate and care for them in spite of their generational foibles, but it is too late to rewrite their history. They are who they are, which is the reason our elder politicos need to move out of the way. Let the younger generation take on the leadership roles. I also think our two party system is now obsolete. Seems like both parties are run by the wingnuts. Our country desperately needs a viable third party led by moderates. What I wouldn't give right now to have former Senator Bill Frist as our president...doctor, business man, experienced leader. I wish he would run. Unfortunately, he meant what he said about the need for term limits. He left politics and shows no interest in returning. |
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cindylouflu
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 26 2020 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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Yes Exactly Flubergasted! It's time to pass the torch to younger problem solvers and ditch the crazy ideologies. Our leadership looks like a nursing home. |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29670 |
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It's a case of rage against the machine. Someone wise (and I want to say Mark Twain but I might be wrong) said that in order for society to continue, the common man must have a vested interest in it, and therefore he must be able to own property. If he doesn't or can't own property then the status quo will end. That's not an actual quote as I can't remember the words, but it's the gist of it. We have younger generations who can no longer get on the property ladder and that's just the tip of the iceberg. They don't have a voice and they aren't listened to. More and more people are disenfranchised from society and the death of George Floyd is just the proverbial straw that broke the camels back. No, rioting isn't right. No, it isn't just because a black man was murdered by a white cop, it's the frustration of millions of people who are not listened to, who are in poverty despite working long hours, who have lifestyle images rammed down their throats from every billboard and every twitter feed and know full well that they'll never have those things in their lives, go on those trips, have a beach house. In Jared Diamond's book Collapse, he found that the common factor in about 30 societies that collapsed in history was that the gap between rich and poor had grown too wide. Well look at us now. It's never been bigger. The revolution is coming and if all you can see is the current rioting then you're looking in the wrong direction. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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To paraphrase Technophobe... Don't hold your breath that it'll go anywhere near justice. |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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Thanks Witchy! I meant, don't hold your breath waiting for an American 'leader'. But that interpretation works even better! |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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BeachMama
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 25 2020 Location: Southwest US Status: Offline Points: 3080 |
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I have been gone a few days due to personal matters, and I came back to this. I am aghast. |
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