Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
CDC Confirms Remarkably Low Death Rate. POWDERPUFF |
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cobber
Admin Group Joined: August 13 2014 Status: Offline Points: 6035 |
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Posted: May 25 2020 at 9:21pm |
POWDERPUFF! We knew the CFR was 0.3% on the 24 January, which is marginally worse than the flu. Why has this been beaten up so much? Why are we being lied to? |
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EdwinSm,
Moderator Joined: April 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 24065 |
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Lets see how the maths works out. Currently USA is reporting 97,669 deaths. Using "current best estimate" of 0.4% for symptomatic cases, and 0.26% for all (allowing for 35% asymptomatic case), this gives 24 million symptomatic cases and 37 million for all cases. So the spread in the USA is such that around 10% of the population has been infected by the SARS-Cov2 virus. So the final death toll (on these estimates) would be about 100.000 for each 10% of the population infected. So final estimates depend on how far this spreads. The first closed case, The Diamond Princess, had about 20% infected (after lock down), but I remember some other cruise ships that were up to 50% (I can't remember the name, but there was a smaller ship that went to the Antarctic that had a high rate). Taking the lower figure of 20% spread, the CDC report implies that we should see another 100.000 deaths in the USA. That in itself is not a slate-wiper, but the figures are high enough for it to seem more like a deadly nightshade laced powder puff. |
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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In the overnight deaths rose more than 2,000 and the total became 99,807. World-o-Meter notes that means 18% died out of all "closed" cases (565,534 cases which had an outcome.) Looks like we'll hit 100,000 by mid-morning EST. |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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It saddens me..... |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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Albert
Admin Joined: April 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 47746 |
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The misconception is that people factor in the 35% asymptomatic cases and then compare the death rate to the flu. What people forget is that the flu has 50% asymptomatic cases each year, so to be more accurate, you have to factor the 50% asympto flu cases for a more accurate CFR when comparing. Either way you slice it, 99,000 deaths in 90 days dwarfs the flu death rate. |
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DeepThinker
V.I.P. Member Joined: September 26 2015 Location: So. California Status: Offline Points: 3245 |
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Yes that 100k number looks bad. However in most places it is only an increase for the year of about .5% deaths.... in the hardest hit areas it is only an increase of about 1%. Millions of people die every year. Edit: New York has seen a 15% increase in yearly deaths from covid. Considering the advanced age and fragile health condtion of most vicitims.... Once the entire years worth of deaths have been calculated I would bet it is much smaller. This is disease is not killing young healthy people, but people already at the end of their life. In the USA the average life expectancy in nursing homes is about 6 months. So within a year or so I doubt we will even statistically notice these excess deaths. |
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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Yeah.. we shouldn't worry about older Americans. They're just statistics... you know... dead wood sucking social security and medicare/medicaid dry ... |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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I don't think anyone is saying that at all. Nothing prevents those in high risk groups from self isolating. But to ask everyone to do so at this point is unrealistic given the data. |
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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And I’m willing to bet they were saying the same thing around this time in 1918. We know how that turned out. You’re basing everything on a first wave, and no pandemic in modern history had it’s baby steps turn out to be it’s deadliest.
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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Well it is possible there will be a second wave or it's possible there won't be, no one can give a definitive answer as to that. But you act on the data and information at hand and change the plan as the situation on the ground unfolds and changes are called for. |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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Currently we have nice high life expectancy here in the West. There is a great deal of complacency and "I'm alright Jack"-ism among the younger age groups. If however this becomes endemic (The path it is already firmly on) our life expectancy will fall. Many of the diseases we can now treat, which are associated with older age groups, like heart disease, diabetes, cancer, arthritis will all carry far higher death rates. That is without further mutation. Already, the wu tiicks the main box for a slate-wiper, in that it can jump between other species and back again - quite easily it seems. Should a nastier strain emerge, we are up a proverbial brown creek, without any means of controlled propulsion. The more cases the more chance a virus has to mutate. Mutation comes easy to coronaviruses,. Vaccinations come hard. I also think the statistics are beiung "massaged" to facilitate/encourage an early end to lockdowns. |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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Hey JacksDad.... You know I had the same thought ,about 1918..... People got complacent.... And Bang.... I seriously and truly hope that this is not going to be the case, However, my gut tells me it's not over till Wu says it is..... Just watching as ever with interest........ Bad news, good news..... Mother in law just admitted to hospital,in UK not WU Blood clott in leg +other issues.....🙁 We don't expect her to leave hospital....... Circle of life: Daughters going to have a Baby.....😁 Life's full of ups and downs....... |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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Then don’t prep, and hope you can change tactics at short notice. Personally, I’m getting ready now for something far worse than we’ve already seen because that same data suggests to me that we have a good chance of getting our butts kicked next time around, in large part because the government won’t be in any shape to help us at that point (not that they have been). Not prepping potentially exposes me and mine to a worst case scenario I don’t want to experience. To each his own, I guess. |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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Thorne!
Adviser Group Joined: February 07 2020 Status: Offline Points: 2695 |
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From what I've read 60,000 people died in the U.S. during the 1918 pandemic, which lasted 18 months. Population then was 106,000,000 of far more resilient people living in a more resilient economy. Now there have been 100k deaths in 90 days. 330,000,000 people living in a high tech, JIT economy, crap for health, and apparently so little concern for the public good that they can't bring themselves to wear a mask in public. Yeah, I'd say the potential for considerable butt-kicking remains high. |
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EdwinSm,
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Sorry, if I go back to play with the figures. This time for New York City which is reporting 16,565 confirmed deaths and 4,749 deaths that are 'probably due to covid19. Using the combined figure and the CDC "best" estimate of 0.26% Infection Fatality Rate, this will give a figure of about 8,2 million in New York City having been infected out of a population of 8,3 million. I have problems with assuming a nearly 100% infection rate (even if it included asymptomatic cases), so the figures are indicating that the IFR that the CDC is suggesting is too low for a place like New York City. It also implies that as everyone in NYC has already been infected that they could fully open up and we would expect no more deaths there. In a few more days time, when the death toll in NYC rises it with be clearer that the CDC "best estimate" is too optimistic. |
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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I wasn't going to do this because I understand my experience here in NYC has been more extreme than in other areas of the country... BUT... Here's the potential for those who are calling this thing a "powderpuff" The real stats. Not fudged numbers and attributing those faked numbers in a misleading manner. So where ANYONE gets 15% uptick in NYC deaths must be pro-rating it over 10 years. Its a misleading claim. But that's what those who have a vested interest in minimizing this crisis are doing. Repeating misleading claims. Swallow, rinse, regurgitate. |
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DeepThinker
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WitchMisspelled... that 15% number was comparing to yearly deaths. It seems the most we ever see from covid is about a month of excess deaths. So a 225% spike for March/April is in line with that... a bit high but within range. When they where screaming for a lock down they scared us by saying we would see a years worth of excess deaths.... they where wrong by a factor of 10. |
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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DT.... don't ever go for actuarial. Just sayin'... |
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ViQueen24
Adviser Group Joined: May 14 2013 Location: Verona, PA Status: Offline Points: 12270 |
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People. It ain't over yet. And death is not the only metric by which to measure potency. Anyone that doubts the destructiveness of this virus is invited to look in on the Facebook group Survivor Corps for another viewpoint. |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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BBC News - Coronavirus: How pandemic in US compares to rest of world https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52771783 |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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