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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

CDC Confirms Remarkably Low Death Rate. POWDERPUFF

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cobber View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 25 2020 at 9:21pm

POWDERPUFF!

We knew the CFR was 0.3% on the 24 January, which is marginally worse than the flu. Why has this been beaten up so much?

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/cdc-confirms-remarkably-low-death-rate-media-chooses-ignore-covid-19-realities

Why are we being lied to?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2020 at 10:44pm

Lets see how the maths works out.  

Currently USA is reporting 97,669 deaths.      Using "current best estimate" of 0.4% for symptomatic cases, and 0.26% for all (allowing for 35% asymptomatic case), this gives 24 million symptomatic cases and 37 million for all cases.  

So the spread in the USA is such that around 10% of the population has been infected by the SARS-Cov2 virus.  

So the final death toll (on these estimates) would be about 100.000 for each 10% of the population infected.  So final estimates depend on how far this spreads.  


The first closed case, The Diamond Princess, had about 20% infected (after lock down), but I remember some other cruise ships that were up to 50% (I can't remember the name, but there was a smaller ship that went to the Antarctic that had a high rate).    

Taking the lower figure of 20% spread, the CDC report implies that we should see  another 100.000 deaths in the USA.     That in itself is not a slate-wiper, but the figures are high enough for it to seem more like a deadly nightshade laced powder puff.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 4:47am

In the overnight deaths rose more than 2,000 and the total became 99,807.   World-o-Meter notes that means 18% died out of all "closed" cases (565,534 cases which had an outcome.)

Looks like we'll hit 100,000 by mid-morning EST.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 5:26am







It saddens me.....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 6:10am

The misconception is that people factor in the 35% asymptomatic cases and then compare the death rate to the flu.   What people forget is that the flu has 50% asymptomatic cases each year, so to be more accurate, you have to factor the 50% asympto flu cases for a more accurate CFR when comparing.   

Either way you slice it, 99,000 deaths in 90 days dwarfs the flu death rate.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 9:13am

Yes that 100k number looks bad.   However in most places it is only an increase for the year of about .5% deaths.... in the hardest hit areas it is only an increase of about 1%.   Millions of people die every year.   


Edit: New  York has seen a 15% increase in yearly deaths from covid.   Considering the advanced age and fragile health condtion of most vicitims....   Once the entire years worth of deaths have been calculated I would bet it is much smaller.   This is disease is not killing young healthy people, but people already at the end of their life.  In the USA the average life expectancy in nursing homes is about 6 months.   So within a year or so I doubt we will even statistically notice these excess deaths.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 11:40am

Yeah.. we shouldn't worry about older Americans.  They're just statistics... you know... dead wood sucking social security and medicare/medicaid dry ...   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 12:32pm

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Yeah.. we shouldn't worry about older Americans.  They're just statistics... you know... dead wood sucking social security and medicare/medicaid dry ...   


          

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 12:51pm

I don't think anyone is saying that at all. Nothing prevents those in high risk groups from self isolating. But to ask everyone to do so at this point is unrealistic given the data.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 1:00pm

And I’m willing to bet they were saying the same thing around this time in 1918. We know how that turned out. You’re basing everything on a first wave, and no pandemic in modern history had it’s baby steps turn out to be it’s deadliest.


Minimize this all you like, but it still has the potential to bring us to our knees if we don’t respect it. I’m prepping for subsequent waves as if my family’s lives depended on it. Anything less makes no sense whatsoever knowing what we know about pandemics.

 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 1:19pm

Well it is possible there will be a second wave or it's possible there won't be, no one can give a definitive answer as to that. But you act on the data and information at hand and change the plan as the situation on the ground unfolds and changes are called for.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 1:30pm

Currently we have nice high life expectancy here in the West.  There is a great deal of complacency and "I'm alright Jack"-ism among the younger age groups.  If however this becomes endemic (The path it is already firmly on) our life expectancy will fall.  Many of the diseases we can now treat, which are associated with older age groups, like heart disease, diabetes, cancer, arthritis will all carry far higher death rates.  That is without further mutation.

Already, the wu tiicks the main box for a slate-wiper, in that it can jump between other species and back again - quite easily it seems.  Should a nastier strain emerge, we are up a proverbial brown creek, without any means of controlled propulsion.  

The more cases the more chance a virus has to mutate.  Mutation comes easy to coronaviruses,.  Vaccinations come hard. 

I also think the statistics are beiung "massaged" to facilitate/encourage an early end to lockdowns.


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His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 2:01pm





Hey JacksDad....

You know I had the same thought ,about 1918.....

People got complacent....

And Bang....

I seriously and truly hope that this is not going to be the case,

However, my gut tells me it's not over  till Wu says it is.....

Just watching as ever with interest........

Bad news,

 good news.....

Mother in law just admitted to hospital,in UK

not WU

Blood clott in leg +other issues.....🙁

We don't expect her to leave hospital.......

Circle of life:

Daughters going to have a Baby.....😁

Life's full of ups and downs.......


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 4:26pm

Then don’t prep, and hope you can change tactics at short notice. 

Personally, I’m getting ready now for something far worse than we’ve already seen because that same data suggests to me that we have a good chance of  getting our butts kicked next time around, in large part because the government won’t be in any shape to help us at that point (not that they have been). Not prepping potentially exposes me and mine to a worst case scenario I don’t want to experience. To each his own, I guess.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 8:31pm

Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

Then don’t prep, and hope you can change tactics at short notice. 

Personally, I’m getting ready now for something far worse than we’ve already seen because that same data suggests to me that we have a good chance of  getting our butts kicked next time around, in large part because the government won’t be in any shape to help us at that point (not that they have been). Not prepping potentially exposes me and mine to a worst case scenario I don’t want to experience. To each his own, I guess.






I was good long before this event and still am in that regard. But that's not what we were talking about. Based on the current data the stay at home is not called for at this point and it's not a sustainable long term policy. The conditions and situation might change to make it a viable solution at some point in the future perhaps, but I guess we'll just have to see how it goes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Thorne! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 9:05pm

From what I've read 60,000 people died in the U.S. during the 1918 pandemic, which lasted 18 months. Population then was 106,000,000 of far more resilient people living in a more resilient economy. 

Now there have been 100k deaths in 90 days. 

330,000,000 people living in a high tech, JIT economy, crap for health, and apparently so little concern for the public good that they can't bring themselves to wear a mask in public.

Yeah, I'd say the potential for considerable butt-kicking remains high.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2020 at 11:04pm

Sorry, if I go back to play with the figures.  This time for New York City which is reporting 16,565 confirmed deaths and 4,749 deaths that are 'probably due to covid19.  

Using the combined figure and the CDC "best" estimate of 0.26% Infection Fatality Rate, this will give a figure of about 8,2  million in New York City having been infected out of a population of 8,3 million.  


I have problems with assuming a nearly 100% infection rate (even if it included asymptomatic cases), so the figures are indicating that the IFR that the CDC is suggesting is too low for a place like New York City.  It also implies that as everyone in NYC has already been infected that they could fully open up and we would expect no more deaths there.   

In a few more days time, when the death toll in NYC rises it with be clearer that the CDC "best estimate" is too optimistic.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2020 at 4:02am

I wasn't going to do this because I understand my experience here in NYC has been more extreme than in other areas of the country... BUT...  Here's the potential for those who are calling this thing a "powderpuff"  The real stats.  Not fudged numbers and attributing those faked numbers in a misleading manner.

In March and April, the State of New York deaths spiked 42%

In March and April the City of New York deaths spiked 225%

So where ANYONE gets 15% uptick in NYC deaths must be pro-rating it over 10 years.  Its a misleading claim.  But that's what those who have a vested interest in minimizing this crisis are doing.  Repeating misleading claims. Swallow, rinse, regurgitate.  

Could this have been worse? Oh yeah! Without doubt! But to call this virus a "powderpuff" .. well.. bombastic New Yorker that I am, I just have to call it out as: You just can't fix stupid.

Oh.. and by the way.. to perpetrate the myth that only old people die from this is unconscionable.  I dare you to tell any 50 year old (which is where the deaths start spiking to 20%) they're too old to contribute.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2020 at 7:06am

WitchMisspelled...   that 15% number was comparing to yearly deaths.   It seems the most we ever see from covid is about a month of excess deaths.   So a 225% spike for March/April is in line with that... a bit high but within range.


When they where screaming for a lock down they scared us by saying we would see a years worth of excess deaths.... they where wrong by a factor of 10.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2020 at 9:15am

DT.... don't ever go for actuarial.  Just sayin'...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2020 at 9:48am

People.  It ain't over yet.  And death is not the only metric by which to measure potency.  Anyone that doubts the destructiveness of this virus is invited to look in on the Facebook group Survivor Corps for another viewpoint.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2020 at 3:12pm

BBC News - Coronavirus: How pandemic in US compares to rest of world

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52771783


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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