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Verdict in :hydroxychloroquine.....

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carbon20 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Verdict in :hydroxychloroquine.....
    Posted: August 09 2020 at 3:37pm
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2020 at 8:29pm

Carbon20-May I say it in a friendly manner, the "popular science" article is garbage....a repeat of the "Lancet study" that was not a study...ab advertisment for expensive remdesivir. (I base my opinion on what I did read-a.o. Peak Prosperity, Chris Martenson-keeps claiming (H)CQ is effective and cheap and old-with a 70 year history of no additional healthissues).

The Popsci-article has no new reasons for what harm HCQ would do....

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2020 at 9:04pm



cheers for that info

I tend to think that the down play of the use of HCQ, is more to do with ,

Taking it away from the proper use, rather than it not being effective......

it probably is effective in some respects,

 but it's probably better used for doing what it is usually prescribed for.......




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2020 at 12:24am

DJ-Most (poor) countries do have very limited options. The 70 y/o HCQ is 1/1000 of the cost of (new) Remdesivir and often produced in "poor" countries. What I do understand (H)CQ would help in the early stages of a virus-infection (in combination with zinc) to slow down the spread of the virus. 

According to CM/PP some "studies" did give people with severe infection-hospitalized an overdose of HCQ. Prednisone has been used-also "cheap and old" in more advanced infections. 

Maybe even a TB-vaccination may proof helpfull against the worst aspects of Covid19 [url]https://innovationorigins.com/study-existing-vaccine-is-safe-stimulates-the-immune-system-and-may-also-be-effective-against-covid-19/[/url] maybe not stopping getting ill but limiting damage. (Very early study-limited data-but maybe the best we may see possible for now as a vaccine-usefull on a large-global-scale.

[url]https://health.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/pharma/why-icmr-continues-to-stand-firm-on-using-hydroxychloroquine-as-prophylaxis/76172274[/url];

A recent case-controlled study by Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR) has underlined the benefit of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) as prophylaxis, showing that the sustained use of the anti-malaria drug along with the use of personal protective equipment (PPE) was associated with a significant decline in risk of Covid-19 infection rate by upto 80% among the health care workers.

[url]https://www.palmerfoundation.com.au/hydroxychloroquine-the-drug-costa-rica-uses-successfully-to-fight-covid-19/[/url]

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hazelpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2020 at 2:20am

Here in UK  we have not ruled out hydroxichloroquine for prevention od complications, taking it before or shortly after exposure.  The university of Oxford MORU unit have started a double blind randomised study in 40,000 people at home, in Europe, South America and Africa.  

Quote :

One of the lead researchers of the 'Copcov' trial, Dr Will Schilling, said the question on whether hydroxychloroquine "works or not in prevention or very early treatment… remains unanswered".

By the time patients are admitted to hospital, virus multiplication is well past its peak and inflammation in the lungs and other complications may prove lethal."

"At this stage, the steroid dexamethasone, which reduces inflammation, saves lives but the antivirals hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine do not. However, that does not rule out that they could be effective much earlier in the illness."


https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-oxford-study-says-hydroxychloroquine-can-not-be-ruled-out-as-preventative-measure-study-says-12043367



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2020 at 7:24am

At last!

Thanks, Hazelpad!  A randomised trial is very necessary and well overdue.*  Yet another, much needed, small ray of hope  









* I know The GOO has been advocating it all year, but I would not take his word for it if he said the sun shone in daytime. (Tell that to Alaska in December.)

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2020 at 8:39am

I think if I realized I had been exposed to somebody who was positive, and was still asymptomatic, or in the early stages, I would try to get my doctor to prescribe me a z-pack, HCQ and I would take zinc with it.  I think it's quite possible it may really help in the early stages.  Later on, once the cytokine storm starts, forget it.  I think most of the folks in this article died anyway, perhaps because they were elderly, pre-existing conditions, or treatment was started too late to help them.


https://www.timesonline.com/news/20200728/brighton-rehab-cited-for-use-of-hydroxychloroquine

Brighton Rehab cited for use of hydroxychloroquine


By Daveen Rae Kurutz

@DK_NewsData and @DKreports

Posted Jul 28, 2020 at 4:08 PM   

According to a report issued by the Pennsylvania Department of Health Tuesday, Brighton Rehab administered hydroxychloroquine to 205 of 435 residents as part of an “Experimental Post-Exposure Prophylaxis” treatment to help treat and prevent residents from contracting COVID-19..


BRIGHTON TWP. — State officials have cited Beaver County’s largest nursing home for the controversial use of an anti-malaria drug to treat and prevent COVID-19.


The Pennsylvania Department of Health on Tuesday released a report related to a June investigation of a complaint that officials at Brighton Rehabilitation and Wellness Center administered hydroxychloroquine and zinc to help treat and prevent residents from contracting COVID-19. According to the report, the facility administered the drug combination to 205 of 435 residents as part of an “Experimental Post-Exposure Prophylaxis” treatment.


Brighton Rehab — the former county-owned Friendship Ridge nursing home — was the site of the largest outbreak of the novel coronavirus in a Pennsylvania nursing home. State records show that at least 332 residents tested positive for the virus, along with 113 staff members, and that 73 residents died directly because of the virus. An additional nine residents recovered from COVID-19 before dying from another cause. Brighton Rehab has been free of active COVID-19 cases for more than six weeks, facility management said Tuesday.


The use of hydroxychloroquine, also known as Plaquenil, to treat or prevent COVID-19 has been highly controversial. President Donald Trump has publicly promoted use of the anti-malaria drug, despite numerous studies that have shown it is not effective. Recently, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration withdrew an order that allowed the drug’s use as an emergency treatment.


According to the report, facility officials were cited for not notifying the Department of Health about the “experimental research” that was being conducted.


“Based on facility documents, U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) documents, facility record and staff interviews it was determined that the facility failed to obtain the necessary approval from the Pennsylvania Department of Health prior to administering a medication that is not a generally accepted practice in the medical community, is not a currently approved medication by the FDA for treatment of the COVID-19 virus outside of the hospital setting for an “Experimental Post Exposure Prophylaxis” treatment for 205 of 435 residents,” officials wrote.


The use is considered “off-label” use, according to the report, meaning that neither the drug manufacturers nor the FDA said the drug can be, or should be, used to prevent a person from becoming infected with COVID-19.


Hydroxychloriquine is approved to be used to treat or prevent certain types of malaria, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. The drug’s most common side effect is an upset stomach, but can cause heart issues, according to the report.


Interviews in May with Department of Health inspectors found that Brighton Rehab officials not only administered the drug to 205 residents, but also failed to report any medication errors and adverse event occurring during the treatment.



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Brighton officials say that they did not believe they needed state approval to administer the treatment.


“Since the onset of COVID-19, Brighton has followed the guidance of government healthcare officials and physicians. Like any drug, hydroxychloroquine would have to be prescribed by a treating physician. Facility staff only assist with administering medications,” facility management said in a statement. “When the FDA issued an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) in March for emergency use of oral formulations of chloroquine phosphate (CQ) and hydroxychloroquine sulfate, physicians did prescribe the medication with the full consent of residents and/or their legal guardians, and made the Department of Health aware of all plans for administration of the therapy. After the FDA revoked the EUA, physicians immediately ended this practice and ceased prescribing it.”


The facility’s medical director and clinical leadership is required to undergo training on resident rights regarding experimental research and a consultant pharmacist will conduct random audits each month to make sure that hydroxychloroquine and zinc are not being prescribed.



https://www.timesonline.com/news/20200728/brighton-rehab-cited-for-use-of-hydroxychloroquine


This isn’t the first time that the facility’s use of the drug has come into the spotlight.


In April, the daughter of Brighton Rehab patient sued the state Department of Health, alleging that the lack of inspections resulted in biomedical experimentation on residents under the guise of clinical trials. Jodi Gill’s 81-year-old father lived at Brighton Rehab. She was “gravely concerned” about the language in a consent form to allow her father to receive experimental treatment to prevent COVID-19 and believes that if the Pennsylvania Department of Health was regularly inspecting the facility, the treatment never would have been approved.


The lawsuit was withdrawn in late June.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2020 at 2:55pm

Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

Carbon20-May I say it in a friendly manner, the "popular science" article is garbage....a repeat of the "Lancet study" that was not a study...ab advertisment for expensive remdesivir. (I base my opinion on what I did read-a.o. Peak Prosperity, Chris Martenson-keeps claiming (H)CQ is effective and cheap and old-with a 70 year history of no additional healthissues).

The Popsci-article has no new reasons for what harm HCQ would do....


DJ, if I may say this in a friendly manner.  I feel rather that same about econoblogger, Chris Martenson.  He may have a masters from Cornell, but I've never known him to work at any of the "big houses".  And believe me, in the time frame he names, I would know him if he worked in one of the "big houses".  And might I add, he never names which house for which he worked.  Contrary to popular belief, the industry is a rather small one.  So although I don't doubt he knows the math, I'm sketchy on whether he knows the real world application. I'm also rather vague on why a PhD in Neuro toxicology (which has nothing to do with epidemiology, btw)  and only a masters in Economics...

Paul Krugman he is not.  Nor is he any other Nobel Award Economist. 

And FWIW, I predicted the 2008 housing crash years in advance too.  Just about anyone with a fundamental understanding of economics and what IB was doing with mortgage backed securities at that time knew it was coming.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2020 at 1:07am

WM-I agree with you-PP is an investment-site. CM is using the pandemic to promote himself and PP. Still he had some good info and a wider view. 

MedCrem is very good at the medical point. Dr.John Campbell sometimes has good info-is willing to name things going wrong. 

For the rest sometimes ZeroHedge, Moon of Alabama can give usefull info. But outside Main Stream Media there is a limit in long term good info-on the internet-that is were PP/CM is-in my opinion- doing a good job.

Of course as a reader you have to think for yourself-I love jig saw puzzles and history-this pandemic has aspects of both. 

Thanks for the "critical note"on CM-nobody is perfect, this site is not a scientific one-we all try to get some info...

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2020 at 5:45am
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2020 at 7:05am

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxychloroquine#Contraindications[/url] As PP/CM reported side effects of HCQ made the news after Covid19 became a pandemic. Before that it was seen as safe-without those side effects. 

As PP/CM describes one may get the impression those side effects are overstretched for commercial reasons. 

DJ-One question I have is the reported increase of a cardiac problem caused by the Covid19 effects on the hearth (brain etc) and NOT by HCQ ? Still now some describe Covid19 (mainly) causing lung issues. As discussed on this forum Covid19 may also be described as a sort of blood dissease-with clotting causing a lot of problems alover the body. 

Again-for poor countries the "preferred treatment" (Dr. Fauci) with remdesivir is much to costly. PP/CM mentions there is little knowledge of treatments with message-RNA treatments like [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remdesivir[/url]

(DJ-When I read the wiki-page it looks like Remdesivir is a cure looking for an illness to be effective in.)

DJ-Again I only repeat what I learned from PP/CM-I have no medical background. I hope HCQ works-and if it does not work other medication may help. Remdesivir is (still) very expensive-out of reach for most-but with large scale production costs will go down-I guess-and if that cure works-great !

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2020 at 4:27pm





The jury is out on 

This pandemic,

A lot of mistakes have happened,and I'm sure more will,

It's a fluid situation,

The science is changing the more we learn about  covid19

Nothing is written in stone as far as I'm concerned ,at this moment,

And the best thing to do is avoid getting/spreading this virus and support the local heath front liners

 (think about them when you shouting about your rights)

by doing the right thing.....

Looking after your fellow citizens.....

Something some have forgotten about....

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2020 at 1:08am

Peak Prosperity had in his latest video India switching from HCQ to Ivermectin/Doxycycline in early hospitalized cases. Also Bangla Desh had good experiences with this treatment. DJ-Maybe HCQ is most effective in very early stages-often people may not see a doctor-certainly with health care under pressure. 

There is still a lot to learn in dealing with Covid19-most effecting the poor. Treatment has to be cheap and easy to (self) produce in most countries. 

The idea of "going for herd immunity" is asking for all kind of mutations/complications one need to avoid as best as one can. 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2020 at 2:05am

DJ-A good presentation on HCQ [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wqXHvCbPKg[/url] or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wqXHvCbPKg

This video is on “chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine use in Covid-19”, where Dr. Rohit Aggarwal is answering 5 basic questions about controversy around these anti-malarial drugs a. What is hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, b What is the evidence behind use of these drugs in Covid-19 patients, c risk of taking these anti-malarial drugs, d. how does these drugs work against Covid-19, e. can these drugs be used for prevention of Covid-19 and last but not the least final recommendations. Dr. Aggarwal is Co-Director of Myositis Center of University of Pittsburgh, Chair of Medical Advisory Board of The Myositis Association (TMA) and author of book "Managing Myositis: A Practical Guide" answers patients questions regarding COVID-19 and immunosuppressive medications.  

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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