Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Trump tests positive for Covid....... |
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JellyMama
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 25 2020 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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Posted: November 05 2020 at 9:50pm |
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He’s been going non stop for days and had at least 4 rallies in one day in different states. He’s hoarse from talking so much. |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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I think the "Doc"predicted it.... Sorry it was JacksDad....๐ |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.๐
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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More likely the stress of campaigning. It can take quite a toll on candidates. But I do imagine the covid-hangover did not help. Having fought such a nasty bug will have depleted his body's defences and energy levels, making the whole thing harder. |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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EdwinSm,
Moderator Joined: April 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 24065 |
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I recently heard Trump's voice on the news....it sounded bad (very hoarse). Would this be an effect of over-exerting himself in the run up to the election, or is it likely to be an on going effect of his covid-19 illness? I do wonder if he had been pushing himself too hard to appear to be on top of things and to seem to be strong. |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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DW (English): Angela Merkel: Europe must learn coronavirus lessons as situation gets 'serious'. https://dw.com/p/3jrsZ?maca=en-gk-volltext-newsstand-topstories-en-10709-xml-googlenews And yet chump keeps insisting that it's no big deal ....... WHY....because hes only interested in a 2nd term...... Wake up.... |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.๐
Marcus Aurelius |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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Great article on how pandemics end. It has some strange animation and uploading it was impossible (at least for this Technophobe) but it is here anyway: |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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I'm not sure it's that simple. He believes a swimming economy is his best chance at re-election. He has to know by now he can't win this with solely the support of his base. That constituency does not comprise the majority. |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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For what little it is worth, IMHO, I think he made light of the virus at the start and now he would look confused, misinformed, ill-educated or lying if he changed his stance. Hoping for re-election, that only leaves the option of 'brazen it out'; let it run riot but claim it is under control. It's worked so far. To summarise the science: Mask wearing cuts down transmission of the virus, more for those the wearer comes in contact with than the wearer. Social distancing reduces the transmission rate of the virus. Obsessive hygene methods (washing hands, not touching face, using sanitiser and cleaning surfaces with soap, alcohol or bleach) reduce transmission of the virus. Good ventilation reduces the transmission of the virus. The true backbone of epidemiological control is: "Test, trace and isolate". This is the most vital of all. Isolation, shielding, quarrantine and lockdowns all MASSIVELY reduce viral transmission. They are both the most effective option and the most economically costly. NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THESE IS TOTALLY EFFECTIVE. But put together in a comprehensive plan, they can drop the transmission rate below the magical R0 = 1 point. If that is achieved, the virus can be eliminated. To achieve this a leader needs to take 5 steps: 1, Tell the bald unadulterated truth to the people. Mask wearing is a patriotic duty to your fellow Citizens. This is a marathon not a sprint; some controls must remain until a vaccine is found - only then, can you get the longed-for herd immunity - without colossal loss of life. 2, Set up a comprehensive, national plan. Starting with full lockdown and going on to specific areas of continued transmission only. Do ALL the rest as well. 3, Lead the fight. Follow your own rules and restrictions. Set an example to the people. Don't say: "Wear a mask" and take your own off. Don't ban travel and then jett off. 4, Set up assistance for those economically damaged and pay it all back later. A sick, terrified workforce can't work. Yes, this will cause an economic catastrophy! But it will be a smaller one than it would have been if you fail. 5, Protect the medical staff. They are your best weapon. Protect the suppliers, farmers, distributors and those whose work enables the people to get necessary supplies. You only think you need the rest. I think it is now too late to adopt that strategy and still get re-elected. The country needs it, the campaign does not. |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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Dutch Josh
Adviser Group Joined: May 01 2013 Location: Arnhem-Netherla Status: Online Points: 95767 |
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Dr. John Campbell: Wearing a mask is critical, not political...Some people make pandemics, masks, medicine, science "politics". One should ask why they do so... |
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein |
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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Refusing to either wear a mask or advocate for wearing one is a deliberate tactic to appease his base, pure and simple. Science and medical advice are not something Trump is receptive to. |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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EdwinSm,
Moderator Joined: April 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 24065 |
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Because many of his supporters have made a litmus test* of the following wearing mask = loss of personal freedom For Trump to support mask wearing (in accordance to most medical opinion) would mean going against what most of his hard core supporters want. Trump for his other faults seems to be very very good at reading the emotions and desires of his supporters and going with what they want. So for Trump to be pro-mask means that he risks alienating his supports which he is unlikey to do so soon to an election. So basically to keep his supporters happy he is willing to let the pandemic continue out of control. * this phrase may date me, but in its day it meant a firm result between two alternatives (in the lab: between acid and alkaline) |
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JellyMama
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 25 2020 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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Sorry, you didn’t answer my question with your response. Why wouldn’t he want it under control if that is a factor in his re-election? |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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Why do you listen to the Real Estate guy.....? who just wants a 2nd term,and has insisted its nothing to worry about.......(220 thousand dead.........) (If a 1,000 people were killed in a plane crash a day would you get on a plane or take advise not to fly?) And not Dr Fauci......who has Cared for the American people for years,and served numerous Presidents ? look at what other countries are doing/ recommending....... The Independent: Coronavirus: Masks should be mandatory in offices and outdoors, say doctors. ABC News: Coronavirus Australia live news:. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-11/coronavirus-australia-live-news-covid-19-latest/12751498 |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.๐
Marcus Aurelius |
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ViQueen24
Adviser Group Joined: May 14 2013 Location: Verona, PA Status: Offline Points: 12270 |
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Welcome back, Jack's Dad, a voice of reason. |
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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Back on topic - if the Superspreader-in-Chief makes it through the weekend (this is probably the make or break period in his recovery), at least he can rest easy knowing that he's probably going to eclipse the number of infections from the Rose Garden debacle by a mile with the rallies and gatherings he has planned. Wonder if he's started to crash yet after the fun and games we saw while he was out of his gourd on steroids? |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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Good to be back. Thankfully I didn't die again (old timers will get that one...). |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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Jacksdad! You're back! WELCOME HOME! We missed you! I missed you!!! |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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Good to see you Jacksdad! Life does get in the way, doesn't it. Hope things are being resolved satisfactorily for you and yours. |
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EdwinSm,
Moderator Joined: April 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 24065 |
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Good to see you back, Jacksdad Do you think that other man would be pleased to be called a SUPER-speader ? Would he take it as a compliment?
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54487154 I think the definition of a superspreader event is 10 or more people being infected. |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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Hi jacksdad, Missed ya, Hope you been OK.... |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.๐
Marcus Aurelius |
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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Back at ya, KiwiMum Sorry I haven’t been around - life’s being getting in the way a little. |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29680 |
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Hi Jacksdad, long time no see. I've missed your comments. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesnโt accord with the facts.
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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Did someone actually suggest I left for a better site? Good luck finding one
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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โFacts don't care about your feelings.โ
โ Ben Shapiro |
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JellyMama
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 25 2020 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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If masks reduce the spread, wouldn’t Trump want everyone to wear masks to reduce the spread so he could get reelected if that was his goal? I’m not saying masks are ineffective but if you think Trump is doing or not doing things to get re-elected, then it doesn’t make any sense. |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10530
Even Hidin Joe Dementia Biden changed his tune regarding the Presidents authority to issue a mask mandate through an EO. You are welcome. |
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โFacts don't care about your feelings.โ
โ Ben Shapiro |
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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There's the rub, Technophobe. |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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But apparently not, if it messes up his chances of re-election. |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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Although there is nothing specific about this, there can be an Executive Order under the Public Health Service Act directing the Surgeon General to make and enforce regulations that are, in his/her judgement, necessary. So yes. The POTUS can enable the mandate of mask wearing. You're welcome. |
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EdwinSm,
Moderator Joined: April 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 24065 |
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Thanks Little House for that information. So a law requiring people to wear face masks is not in itself unconstitutional, its legality depends on who issues or cannot issue the order, and from what you say the President can not issue the order. However, the President has a lot of influence and he could still use his influence to encourage safe health practices, but he has chosen to go another route |
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Little House
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 13 2020 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1910 |
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Some states post their laws on signs on the interstate (speed limits, what to do when you see a police officer on the side of the road, seatbelt laws and other things as well). I have heard that it is recommended to look up state laws in every state that you will be traveling in, but I never have and I have never had any trouble. Like mask laws, if something is new or different it will be posted so that people know. |
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29680 |
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How interesting about the seat belts. So if you drive from one state that doesn't make you wear seat belts into the neighbouring state that does make you wear them, is there a sort of border crossing where you get informed about the change? Or is it just a road with a sign saying "welcome to Kentucky" and nothing else? If you didn't know you could end up in trouble. It must be like mainland Europe with each state being almost like it's own little country with it's own laws. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesnโt accord with the facts.
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Little House
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 13 2020 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1910 |
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I know that it is hard for those who don’t live here to understand, but the mask laws are the same as the seatbelt laws, they are mandated by the states, not the federal government. Did you know that not every state requires adults to wear seatbelts? Most states have laws requiring that seatbelts be worn and most people wear them, but it is not a federal law. So yes, it would be unconstitutional for the federal government to require seatbelts. (I’m not going to talk about laws requiring clothes, but they too are local laws.). We take local government very seriously here. My state has set up a color coded system to let people know how their county is doing. The interesting thing is that when a county has a lot of cases, it is up to local governments and local health departments to decide what to do. It is not a perfect system, people fall through the cracks, but it is our system and overall it works. So this is why we blame the individual states so much. We know that they are the ones with the real power. |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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Why should I be anything other than polite to you, Jellymama? You have never been rude to me. As far as I can tell, you have never been rude to anyone, however much you might disagree on some things. I wish more people were like you, it would help everyone move toward a ballance point and learn from each other - which is the whole BL**DY point of this site! I wish I could offer more comfort than a few words. It is a paltry heart's-ease I can share. But not for want of wishing. |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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๐ |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.๐
Marcus Aurelius |
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EdwinSm,
Moderator Joined: April 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 24065 |
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If the Constitution does not allow masks to be made mandatory then is the requirement to wear seat belts in cars illegal, or is it Constitutionally illegal to insist the women are not allow to go topless? Even the Bible tells how God allowed Eve to run around naked in the garden - so if that is how women were created then why insist that they be covered up? This reminds me of Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, where a robot had been constructed to blend in on earth and one of the requirements what that it could hold seven (my memory could be wrong on the actual number) totally incompatible ideas at any one time without that creating any conflict in its operation. Looking at the mask debate is is clear that the logic applied to not wearing masks is not applied in other areas of life. |
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JellyMama
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 25 2020 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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Thank you Technophobe for your kind words. Comments made after yours revert back to the same name calling, childish word exchanges that I’m so sick of. People can have a differing opinion without calling each other names. And as for Trump, ya’ll better hope he wins or socialism and/or the far left will prevail. As for you Non-Americans, you have no knowledge of our American ways and why Americans act the way they do. From our founding, Americans have fought against any type of government control over us and a mask mandate or keeping the US shut down any longer than it was would not have been tolerated. I wear a mask always, but for the most part it is my choice. Our Constitution would not have allowed Trump to mandate masks, the governors would have to do that. And quit being disrespectful by calling President Trump “Chump”. I don’t care if you like him or not. And I watched his daily coronavirus briefings everyday and he did not downplay or not tell people how serious it was. Ya’ll are just repeating the highly edited quotes from the news media. Get a grip people. Stick to discussing the virus and this site may gain back some credibility. |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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โFacts don't care about your feelings.โ
โ Ben Shapiro |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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The only thing that will save the planet from us is a "slate wiper" Something that I have long advocated on here........ It is his fault that USA is in the bad state it's in now....... Take off the rose tinted specs....... Wake up......... Rather be here than there...... Mask free, virus free...... following the science...... Bussiness booming...... "He who laughs last"..... |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.๐
Marcus Aurelius |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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โFacts don't care about your feelings.โ
โ Ben Shapiro |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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"facts don't care about your feelings".......... Fact: 210 thousand dead Americans...... Over 600 thousand people griveing...... For lost loved ones because of a virus That chump knew was going to be bad in January...... But No he needs to be re-elected at ALL COSTS...... "FACTS......dont care about your love for a Orange faced Clown"....... |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.๐
Marcus Aurelius |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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โFacts don't care about your feelings.โ
โ Ben Shapiro |
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29680 |
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It would be really helpful if some proper medical reporting were released by the government. If only they would release honest information it would prove really useful to the people. For example, Melania is obviously in good physical shape and by the muscle tone of her arms alone, she obviously works out. Now it appears she's having a much easier ride of the virus than the president is, so if would be useful if the official doctors would tell people how being slim and fit can help people - afterall we all know that being overweight increases the chances of complications. And by that same measure, if only they'd be honest about Trump. Right now they are trying to make people believe that a 74 year old man, who is obese, who doesn't exercise and lives off fast food can breeze through the disease. It's such false information and will only lull people into a false sense of security. And that's not to mention that he's getting the best possible medical treatment and access to drugs that other people can't get. Boris Johnson's experience of Covid was more honest and he was man enough to say that his weight made things worse and since then he's been exercising and dieting to lose weight. I can respect him for his honesty. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesnโt accord with the facts.
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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The only thing wrong here is Chump killing 210 thousand people through his desire to get a 2nd term...... If you can't see that then you need to go back to neverland...... |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.๐
Marcus Aurelius |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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โFacts don't care about your feelings.โ
โ Ben Shapiro |
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