Josh it's insane! I've just come home to find my son watching CNN live and they are suggesting that they activate the 25th amendment and remove Trump from office for inciting violence. You seriously couldn't make this stuff up. If this were a screen play scenario being submitted it would be thrown out for being too fantastical. I can't believe what I'm seeing. I wouldn't want to be in the US now. I honestly think they are on the brink of civil war.

😷😉

Trump is little more than the liberals Obama. What has Trump actually done besides be a rude, boorish person, and give breaks to his corporate and wall street buddies. He ain't fighting no Deep State. He is a trojan horse, a Manchurian candidate. He never questioned the Patriot Act, has not pardoned Assange or Snowden, and the elites have become even more fantastically wealthy in the last 9 months. Has he spoken out about that? He, Giuliani and Lin Wood are all former or current democrats. I can go on all day. . . .

Speaking as one of the people in another country:  "Shameful!  Shame on you America for half of you supporting a Mussolini/ Hitler wannabe.  Shame on those listening to four years of hate and division.  Shame on the Republican Party, for chosing that horror to represent you.  Shame on those few Republicans still backing him.

Shame on those who helped perpetuate this charade, those who aided the spreading of lies and the con-tricks which line Trump's pockets.

Shame on those Republicans who voted to keep him in office, after he was impeached.  Proud of your work?  You may have helped the party briefly, but long-term you may have castrated it.  America needs Republicans as well as Democrats.  Only the ballance keeps the power in the hands of the people.  Shame on you!  Who do you think is to blame for the runoffs in Georgia?

Those who wish to do dark deeds first turn off the lights.  Discredit the press and rely on Twitter instead, where you can spread lies and propaganda, without press restrictions and oversight.  Shame on you for letting this happen.

Shame on you America, when a sizeable proportion of your citizens are so badly educated they can't see this.  Education is the life blood of democracy."

I could go on, but I am in tears for America.  "Make America Great Again? "  IT ALREADY WAS GREAT.  IT FOUGHT FOR DEMOCRACY ACROSS THE WORLD.  NOW IT IS LESS SO - AND FIGHTING FOR ITS OWN .

WitchMisspelled wrote: AndyPOW wrote: IMO it is all choreographed, and all are playing their parts. The crowd at the Capitol building was small, and could easily be hired to cause problems. The police made little effort to stop them, and little preparation was made in advance. Why in the world would that be? Everyone gets the propaganda they want to read. Once you are emotionally triggered down a particular path it is easy to continue to be manipulated. Hegelian Dialectic. Color revolution. Now is the time to maintain perspective, not get lost in the emotional reactions. Tough times for sure, but resist. Do not take anything in the MSM as the unvarnished truth. I'm sure the family and loved ones of the woman shot and killed would agree with you.

It seems the woman was one of those in the mob. What do people think is going to happen in a situation like this?

"Rep. Markwayne Mullin, R-Ok, told ABC News Live that he saw the shooting happened and allegedly saw police shoot the woman."

Link: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/capitol-breached-protesters/story?id=75081629

My thoughts on the matter for what they are worth.

Many police nowadays don't seem to operate the way they used to.  Shoot first and ask questions later ever more frequently.  I wonder if the streets are so much more dangerous as compared to before as to justify this.  (Edited later to add, I do not believe that was the case in this instance, after watching video.  If anything, the opposite may be true from what I have heard anecdotally from participants.  I was speaking in general in the last several years, and especially, it seems POC face this reality daily).

I do not believe most everything is a false flag, or anything other than what it appears.  In general, I believe Occam's Razor is the most likely explanation for most occurrences.

To me, Trump is reminiscent of a sickening combination of Adolph Hitler-lite, a mobster, and an escapee from a mental hospital.  He is very obviously mentally ill and a criminal, not just a violator of Emily Post and the Marquis Of Queensberry rules.  History will condemn him and his enablers. 

I believe it is encumbent upon us to keep an eye on Trump.  He is potentially much more dangerous as a private citizen.  He violated the code of conduct for presidents, and was impeached.  His phone call from last week is another violation.  Hopefully some lawyers will tally up all his violations, before, during and after his presidency, and litigate every single one of them.  S-L-O-W-L-Y.  Keep him busy.  And then incarcerated.

With only two weeks to go in his term, I doubt anyone is going to trigger the 25th Amendment to pull Trump out of office.  If they do, there will be questions as to why they didn't do so long ago.  Although some may be surprised at the extent of Trump's spinout, it was not hard to predict the direction he would go.  That was obvious to many from the get-go.  Some of his party will continue to suck up to him.  Many will distance themselves from him, with an eye to their future after this display today.  They are doing so on the Senate floor as I type this.

I'm not clear why the National Guard was not more of a presence.  I heard two references on news coverage tonight.  CBS made a reference to some kind of special rule that before the National Guard could come to the Capitol building, they had to go through a chain of command to OK it.  I was admittedly only listening with half an ear at that point, as I was trying to find out particulars on the Ossoff/Perdue Senate race.  ABC said something about officials pleading with Trump to call them in and he p*ssed around about it.

Nevertheless, the "crowd", for want of a better term, was eventually dispersed,  order was restored, and Congress has gone back to doing the Congressional thing, certifying the electoral votes.  In the end, though today was extremely bad, and reflected horribly upon us, let the world be assured:  America is still America!

It is sad, but the news of the four deaths in Washington (one shot in the Capitol, the other three outside as yet unclassified "medical emergencies") is overshadowed by 4.100 deaths yesterday due to Corvid.  

I also wonder (give the sad lack of masks) how many of the demonstrators will come down with covid in the future. 

But there are people who do believe it.  The very same people who stormed the Capitol last night for starters.  Then there's the people who understandably believe Democracy needs reform.  And it does.  However those that believe the only way to change things is the ol' "scorched earth" way of doing things are the main problem.  It's like they're playing 52 pick up because they're losing the game.   

IMHO Trump is guilty of treason.   That is just my opinion you understand.  

Of course, if impeached and charged, he could always use the defence of insanity; it would be a cast-iron one.  Who in their right mind would argue with that?

My understanding is that they could impeach him and remove him, and then trigger some proviso in the law that says he cannot run again.  It would be well worth the price of admission.  I still think not terribly likely, but if they are going to do it, they should do it now, while the Republicans are acting ashamed and guilty and are more likely to act to remove Trump.  I don't think they will, though, because I imagine they would like to preserve the illusion for the MAGAs that Trump could run again in 2024.  Hopefully enough Republicans have seen through him and won't buy his circus a second time.  I hope there are enough Republicans who respect true Conservatism at least that much.

I think this whole fiasco has highlighted a major flaw in the American democratic process and that is the absurd rule that the sitting president remains president for a couple of months after the election results are in. It's ridiculous. Certainly in NZ and in the UK, and probably everywhere else in the world, on election day, the old president / prime minister leaves office and the new one picks up the reins. 

Trump seems hell bent on being as disruptive as he can to make a huge mess for Biden to pick up. If he had been forced by law to leave office as soon as the result was in then he wouldn't have had the opportunity to do this. 

Biden should seriously think about changing the law so this cannot happen in future.

YEP!

carbon20 wrote: Also in America  you have mass mental illness.......

I know you posted this to be snarky... but you're not far off on that.  

I know a huge cohort of American-haters.  Usually I defend Americans too.  

My arguments became more difficult and started to sound hollow when Trump assumed power.  It has been hard to defend those who voted for him.

But as I have said before.  Germans are nice people, yet once upon a time they voted for Hitler.

Most Russians are lovely, yet they supported Stalin (bigger death count than Hitler).

One of my closest friends is Chinese and I find them wonderful and loveable, yet Mao out performed Trump, Stalin and Hitler all put together for the head count of dead.

If you go down the road of believing that we are all guilty when we follow someone in good faith, then we are all dammed - every one of us - and there is no escape.  

I vote for [url]https://www.partyfortheanimals.com/en/?lang=en-US[/url] or https://www.partyfortheanimals.com/en/?lang=en-US in NL for three reasons;

1-They will remain small, will keep their ideas

2-I like most of their basic ideas (If I dive into them I may stop liking them..)

3-Other parties are even worse...

The US election system goes back to when most travel was by foot or boat, electing a president in november-to have him/her starting the job in january is "not very clever"..

Electors is stead of a multi-party one (wo)men one vote system ends up in a two party dead end street. Marketing to get most of the votes instead of views, principles become the main thing. 

If I could vote in 2016 and had to choose between h.clinton (in my opinion a war-criminal) and trump (a fraud) I would have voted for trump. In 2016 clinton did get most of the votes, trump did get most of the electors...how bad can it get...

Inside the democrats Bernie Sanders-in my opinion-had good ideas but by a "party-putsch" was put aside...to make room for the elite.

The US is NOT a democracy-money rules...it is a democrazy...not even the goal of "representhing"anyone-just get reelected..

On the "Capitol" siege, many questions...why did capitol police open the gates to let "demonstrators"in ? Was there no under cover police in that demonstration-no surveilance ? How did communications go...why there was no back up ? 

It reminds me of other "demonstrations"welcomed by the west in Minsk-Belarus, Hong Kong, Tehran-Iran, Venezuela...at least part of it was orchestrated, organized for a certain goal...Yes, trump is a sociopath...his ego is larger then planet Earth-but somehow he became the US president..

From [url]https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/news-nation/after-congressional-treason-one-small-hope-remaining[/url] or https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/news-nation/after-congressional-treason-one-small-hope-remaining (I totally disagree with his views but he may be able to tell what will be next..);

Yesterday Trump released a video that contained a “proclamation to disperse.” This was the video in which he told everybody to “go home in peace.”  Trump’s proclamation to disperse is a necessary legal step before invoking the Insurrection Act.

This statement, it turns out, is a necessary step to invoke the militia or US armed forces to defend the republic.

10 USC Section 254 is called “Proclamation to disperse” and it explains:

Whenever the President considers it necessary to use the militia or the armed forces under this chapter, he shall, by proclamation, immediately order the insurgents to disperse and retire peaceably to their abodes within a limited time.

That is exactly what Trump did yesterday.

He then boarded Air Force One and flew to a military base in Texas, where he could be safe from any kinetic coup attempt in the swamp of Washington D.C.

DJ-Even if trump would like to be in control of some of the "groups" he is not. Some of the "protestors"are trump-hating nazi's...

Again-we need intel on who is bringing these groups together ? Who is financing them to have weapons and transport ? Is it organized crime looking for nuclear weapons ? 

trump is just a small part of an awfull puzzle..

Other question; was trump betting on a confrontation between "peacefull trump supporters" outside the Capitol being attacked by "communist" antifa/BLM-playing his game...ending up with "his supporters"getting inside the Capitol attacking police ? 

Did this make him hesitate to use National Guard-because if Capitol Police did let "demonstrators" (and no doubt provocateurs) in-what role the Nat. Guard would play ? A "Nero" out of controlling his own "show" ? 

Josh, although some Republican officials and talk show hosts were quick to blame the goings-on in DC on Antifa, so far, there has been no evidence of Antifa or left-wing groups, whereas there was plenty of evidence of the right-wing politics of participants -- they outed themselves on social media.  This would include former Representative Rick Saccone of right here in PA; newly-installed House Of Delegates member Derrick Evans from WV; Jake Angeli, AKA The QAnon Shaman; and Richard "Bigo" Barnett.  These people are all well-known to skew far to the right.  The FBI and other organizations in the US are investigating feverishly, and I am very sure that if there is any provable involvement from the left wing, it will be gleefully blasted far and wide by Breitbart, Limbaugh, Hannity, et al.

There is some anecdotal and video evidence which I have seen that the crowd did have some abetting and "benign neglect" from the police.  As for Trump, he is a Paranoid Malignant Narcissist drama queen.  He thrives on attention, drama and chaos.  This is part of his personality disorder/mental illness and is to be expected.  37 mental health professionals and his niece, a psychologist, predicted everything he has done some time ago and no one listened.  Why are we surprised?

KiwiMum, your remarks are very astute and thought-provoking.

Techno, do you remember 4 years ago when you posted this?  it was in a thread called "What Have You Done, America?"

Prescient as all hell, wasn't it?  It's worth a trip back in time to examine that thread.  So much in there was predicted by several contributors, and came true.  I miss Satori.

Thank you for the vote of confidence, ViQueen.  My computer has a tiny screen and my internet connection will not support anything in HD.  So I can't actually read the post of mine you refered to.  So could you post a link, please? 

My actual crystal ball is not working.  If your post refered to Trump, it was not prescience, just a tenuous grasp of the main sweep of history.

Thank you VQ.  The whole thread was interesting in retrospect.  The writing was on the wall back then, where 3 of our members were already persuaded by the Trump-lies.

On the whole our membership are very smart.  This should have warned us more than it did.

I miss Satori too.

My mother always said to me: "Constant repetition is a form of hypnosis."  Not only was she right, but all wannabe dictators know this too.

Goebels said something on the lines of: "If you repeat the lie often enough,  people will believe it."

There is a guy called "John Smith" spouting right wing propaganda on medium, he says: "The lower your IQ, the sooner you believe the REPETITION lies. "  He is Anti Democrat and a believer in conspiracy theories himself.  But I could not resist quoting that one.  On that point alone, I agree with him;  that is what makes me so surprised some of our forum members believed the TTS (Trump Twitter S**t).  I honestly believed our membership too smart for that one; silly me.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joseph-goebbels-on-the-quot-big-lie-quot
https://medium.com/@johnsmith_64114/repetition-is-the-best-form-of-hypnosis-over-time-7f6bf3c1d051

Techno; at least that was a new record for trump-losing the election twice...  !

[url]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/01/democrats-use-capitol-incident-to-suppress-political-disagreement.html[/url] or https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/01/democrats-use-capitol-incident-to-suppress-political-disagreement.html and 

[url]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/01/by-calling-trump-supporter-terrorists-joe-biden-will-likely-create-some.html[/url] or https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/01/by-calling-trump-supporter-terrorists-joe-biden-will-likely-create-some.html 

In my opinion trump is not the real problem, just a symptom of the problem. It is also not "just" a US problem. Politics out of contact with the voters, under control of lobbyists and "big finance"....

I would like to see the US democrats making the US more democratic-in my opinion that would mean better access for ALL to education, healthcare, housing, much less income inequality, less wars, ...

Brexit, trump, populist demagogues have a chance where "normal" politics fail....

English is not his first language?    Wow!  That was eloquent.  Go Arnie!  We want you back!